Discussion:
New train infrastructure progress
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Recliner
2024-09-13 11:23:51 UTC
Permalink
I went past cockfosters depot today. After TfL kindly closed the line for 2
weeks recently I'd expected significant works undertaken. Ha! How naive was I.
New sidings installed? Nope, not even ballast laid.
Cut down tree roots pulled up? Nope.
Any obvious track layout changes? Nope.
Station changes (eg driver assistance systems)? Nope.
~20 foot of new fencing for conductor cables? Oh yeah, they did manage that.
Wtf?
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/volkerfitzpatrick-wins-cockfosters-depot-contract-for-piccadilly-line-upgrade-18-07-2024/
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-13 13:24:15 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 12:23:51 +0100
Post by Recliner
I went past cockfosters depot today. After TfL kindly closed the line for 2
weeks recently I'd expected significant works undertaken. Ha! How naive was I.
New sidings installed? Nope, not even ballast laid.
Cut down tree roots pulled up? Nope.
Any obvious track layout changes? Nope.
Station changes (eg driver assistance systems)? Nope.
~20 foot of new fencing for conductor cables? Oh yeah, they did manage that.
Wtf?
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/volkerfitzpatrick-wins-cockfosters-depo
t-contract-for-piccadilly-line-upgrade-18-07-2024/
2 months later with a 2 week closure and not much has happened. Doesn't bode
well.
Recliner
2024-09-13 14:44:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 12:23:51 +0100
Post by Recliner
I went past cockfosters depot today. After TfL kindly closed the line for 2
weeks recently I'd expected significant works undertaken. Ha! How naive was I.
New sidings installed? Nope, not even ballast laid.
Cut down tree roots pulled up? Nope.
Any obvious track layout changes? Nope.
Station changes (eg driver assistance systems)? Nope.
~20 foot of new fencing for conductor cables? Oh yeah, they did manage that.
Wtf?
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/volkerfitzpatrick-wins-cockfosters-depo
t-contract-for-piccadilly-line-upgrade-18-07-2024/
2 months later with a 2 week closure and not much has happened. Doesn't bode
well.
A contract awarded in July doesn’t do anything this soon.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-13 15:00:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 14:44:28 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 12:23:51 +0100
Post by Recliner
I went past cockfosters depot today. After TfL kindly closed the line for 2
weeks recently I'd expected significant works undertaken. Ha! How naive
was I.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
New sidings installed? Nope, not even ballast laid.
Cut down tree roots pulled up? Nope.
Any obvious track layout changes? Nope.
Station changes (eg driver assistance systems)? Nope.
~20 foot of new fencing for conductor cables? Oh yeah, they did manage
that.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Wtf?
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/volkerfitzpatrick-wins-cockfosters-depo
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
t-contract-for-piccadilly-line-upgrade-18-07-2024/
2 months later with a 2 week closure and not much has happened. Doesn't bode
well.
A contract awarded in July doesn’t do anything this soon.
So what was the 2 week line closure for then, stocking up the portacabins
with tea and biscuits?
Recliner
2024-09-13 15:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 14:44:28 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 12:23:51 +0100
Post by Recliner
I went past cockfosters depot today. After TfL kindly closed the line for 2
weeks recently I'd expected significant works undertaken. Ha! How naive
was I.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
New sidings installed? Nope, not even ballast laid.
Cut down tree roots pulled up? Nope.
Any obvious track layout changes? Nope.
Station changes (eg driver assistance systems)? Nope.
~20 foot of new fencing for conductor cables? Oh yeah, they did manage
that.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Wtf?
https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/volkerfitzpatrick-wins-cockfosters-depo
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
t-contract-for-piccadilly-line-upgrade-18-07-2024/
2 months later with a 2 week closure and not much has happened. Doesn't bode
well.
A contract awarded in July doesn’t do anything this soon.
So what was the 2 week line closure for then, stocking up the portacabins
with tea and biscuits?
Perhaps they were doing work on the stations, not the depot?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-14 09:14:56 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 15:20:39 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So what was the 2 week line closure for then, stocking up the portacabins
with tea and biscuits?
Perhaps they were doing work on the stations, not the depot?
If they did it was invisible.
Recliner
2024-09-14 09:45:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 15:20:39 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So what was the 2 week line closure for then, stocking up the portacabins
with tea and biscuits?
Perhaps they were doing work on the stations, not the depot?
If they did it was invisible.
Would you notice if they had, for example, moved the barriers at the
platform ends to increase the usable length? Or if they’d strengthened the
power supply? Or been preparing the ground for the new depot buildings?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-14 10:56:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 09:45:17 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 15:20:39 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So what was the 2 week line closure for then, stocking up the portacabins
with tea and biscuits?
Perhaps they were doing work on the stations, not the depot?
If they did it was invisible.
Would you notice if they had, for example, moved the barriers at the
platform ends to increase the usable length? Or if they’d strengthened the
power supply? Or been preparing the ground for the new depot buildings?
Why would any of that necessitate closing 5 miles of the line for 2 weeks?
You can do that sort of stuff at night.
Recliner
2024-09-14 11:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 09:45:17 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 15:20:39 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So what was the 2 week line closure for then, stocking up the portacabins
with tea and biscuits?
Perhaps they were doing work on the stations, not the depot?
If they did it was invisible.
Would you notice if they had, for example, moved the barriers at the
platform ends to increase the usable length? Or if they’d strengthened the
power supply? Or been preparing the ground for the new depot buildings?
Why would any of that necessitate closing 5 miles of the line for 2 weeks?
You can do that sort of stuff at night.
The depot was out of action, so trains couldn’t enter service at the
eastern end of the line. But don’t worry, I’m sure there will be plenty
more service suspensions on parts or all of the line in the next year or
two. The new trains are longer, take more power, have a different profile
and need completely different depots. And for a year or so, many of the new
trains will be running on the line alongside the whole of the old fleet.

At least the Picc has two depots. When the Bakerloo gets its new fleet, the
whole line will have to shut for months.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-14 15:15:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 11:36:48 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Why would any of that necessitate closing 5 miles of the line for 2 weeks?
You can do that sort of stuff at night.
The depot was out of action, so trains couldn’t enter service at the
eastern end of the line. But don’t worry, I’m sure there will be plenty
They could still have run some kind of service. Even if cockfosters station
itself was unavailable trains can reverse at oakwood and there's always arnos
grove.
Post by Recliner
more service suspensions on parts or all of the line in the next year or
No doubt.
Post by Recliner
two. The new trains are longer, take more power, have a different profile
I thought they used less power?
Post by Recliner
At least the Picc has two depots. When the Bakerloo gets its new fleet, the
whole line will have to shut for months.
Doesn't London Road count?
Recliner
2024-09-14 15:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 11:36:48 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Why would any of that necessitate closing 5 miles of the line for 2 weeks?
You can do that sort of stuff at night.
The depot was out of action, so trains couldn’t enter service at the
eastern end of the line. But don’t worry, I’m sure there will be plenty
They could still have run some kind of service. Even if cockfosters station
itself was unavailable trains can reverse at oakwood and there's always arnos
grove.
Maybe they were doing work on the station platforms?
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
more service suspensions on parts or all of the line in the next year or
No doubt.
Post by Recliner
two. The new trains are longer, take more power, have a different profile
I thought they used less power?
Less energy.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
At least the Picc has two depots. When the Bakerloo gets its new fleet, the
whole line will have to shut for months.
Doesn't London Road count?
No, as you know from the previous discussion.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-14 15:57:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 15:28:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
They could still have run some kind of service. Even if cockfosters station
itself was unavailable trains can reverse at oakwood and there's always arnos
grove.
Maybe they were doing work on the station platforms?
Maybe, didn't notice anything though.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
two. The new trains are longer, take more power, have a different profile
I thought they used less power?
Less energy.
Ok, less power for the same constant speed though probably they can use more
power to accelerate faster than the 73s.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
At least the Picc has two depots. When the Bakerloo gets its new fleet, the
whole line will have to shut for months.
Doesn't London Road count?
No, as you know from the previous discussion.
Don't remember.
Recliner
2024-09-14 16:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 15:28:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
They could still have run some kind of service. Even if cockfosters station
itself was unavailable trains can reverse at oakwood and there's always arnos
grove.
Maybe they were doing work on the station platforms?
Maybe, didn't notice anything though.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
two. The new trains are longer, take more power, have a different profile
I thought they used less power?
Less energy.
Ok, less power for the same constant speed though probably they can use more
power to accelerate faster than the 73s.
Yes, and they have a higher maximum speed, which may be used in the above
ground sections, particularly Acton Town to Hammersmith.

Another change required is to move some signals, as the drivers sit further
back in the new trains, and so have a narrower field of view.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-15 08:57:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 16:31:24 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Ok, less power for the same constant speed though probably they can use more
power to accelerate faster than the 73s.
Yes, and they have a higher maximum speed, which may be used in the above
ground sections, particularly Acton Town to Hammersmith.
Another change required is to move some signals, as the drivers sit further
back in the new trains, and so have a narrower field of view.
That seems an odd design choice , you'd want them to have a better view out,
not worse.
Recliner
2024-09-15 10:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 16:31:24 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Ok, less power for the same constant speed though probably they can use more
power to accelerate faster than the 73s.
Yes, and they have a higher maximum speed, which may be used in the above
ground sections, particularly Acton Town to Hammersmith.
Another change required is to move some signals, as the drivers sit further
back in the new trains, and so have a narrower field of view.
That seems an odd design choice , you'd want them to have a better view out,
not worse.
The cabs are required to provide much more protection to the driver than 50
years ago. And, of course, in the future, it might be passengers sitting
there, who need protection but not a full forward view.

Compare
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with
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M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-09-15 15:32:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Sep 2024 10:11:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
The cabs are required to provide much more protection to the driver than 50
years ago. And, of course, in the future, it might be passengers sitting
there, who need protection but not a full forward view.
Compare
https://www.railadvent.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/metro-london-05_cropped
.jpg
with
https://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/1973tubeStock/20080726-TGN.jpg
Crash protection is a nobel cause, but mainline stocks don't have tiny
porthole windows in order to achieve it and DLR stocks manage to have nice
large windows with pax sitting right at the front.

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