Discussion:
London Circles Rail Map updated
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2024-08-07 10:28:59 UTC
Permalink
The author says:

Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!

http://www.tubemapcentral.com
Graeme Wall
2024-08-07 11:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2024-08-07 11:58:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Graeme Wall
2024-08-07 12:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2024-08-07 13:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
I think it might be, because of the way he bends the lines. That may be why he's left them off.
MikeS
2024-08-07 14:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
I think it might be, because of the way he bends the lines. That may be why he's left them off.
Regardless of whether it is geographically accurate it doesn't show the
recently named/coloured individual Overground lines.
Recliner
2024-08-07 14:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by MikeS
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before, and
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
I think it might be, because of the way he bends the lines. That may be why he's left them off.
Regardless of whether it is geographically accurate it doesn't show the
recently named/coloured individual Overground lines.
Yes, he'll need to update it for those.

It does seem to be more geographically accurate, though. As Graeme said, it's hard to switch from the familiar Beck
approach, but this does seem to use the space better.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-07 16:01:08 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 15:07:36 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by MikeS
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:42:42 +0100, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before,
and
Post by MikeS
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
I think it might be, because of the way he bends the lines. That may be why
he's left them off.
Post by MikeS
Regardless of whether it is geographically accurate it doesn't show the
recently named/coloured individual Overground lines.
Yes, he'll need to update it for those.
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture politics by
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them yet.
The ELL, NLL and Goblin names have been used for years - only a totally deluded
prat would have renamed them to some cause-du-jour diversity crap that are
simply embarrassing. Only the Weaver Line has some actual relevance to london.
Recliner
2024-08-07 16:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 15:07:36 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by MikeS
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:42:42 +0100, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground network and
associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better than ever before,
and
Post by MikeS
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
I think it might be, because of the way he bends the lines. That may be why
he's left them off.
Post by MikeS
Regardless of whether it is geographically accurate it doesn't show the
recently named/coloured individual Overground lines.
Yes, he'll need to update it for those.
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture politics by
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them yet.
Presumably because they haven’t yet come into effect?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 07:41:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:16:37 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture
politics by
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them
yet.
Presumably because they haven’t yet come into effect?
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim poverty
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
Recliner
2024-08-08 09:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:16:37 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture
politics by
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them
yet.
Presumably because they haven’t yet come into effect?
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim poverty
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
The switch will be over one week in the autumn, presumably when all the new
maps and signs are ready to be fitted to the stations and trains.

In any case, naming the lines certainly makes sense. I suspect you wouldn’t
be complaining about the cost if you approved of the new names.

Personally, I’d have been happier with either numbers (eg, LO1, LO2, etc)
or non-controversial geographic/historic (eg, Goblin, West London, etc)
names.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 09:11:06 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:00:00 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim
poverty
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
The switch will be over one week in the autumn, presumably when all the new
maps and signs are ready to be fitted to the stations and trains.
In any case, naming the lines certainly makes sense. I suspect you wouldn’t
be complaining about the cost if you approved of the new names.
3 of the lines already had perfectly good names. There was no reason to
change them other than political virtue signalling and the other lines should
have been given similar names.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Personally, I’d have been happier with either numbers (eg, LO1, LO2, etc)
or non-controversial geographic/historic (eg, Goblin, West London, etc)
names.
Agreed.
Recliner
2024-08-08 09:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:00:00 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim
poverty
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
The switch will be over one week in the autumn, presumably when all the new
maps and signs are ready to be fitted to the stations and trains.
In any case, naming the lines certainly makes sense. I suspect you wouldn’t
be complaining about the cost if you approved of the new names.
3 of the lines already had perfectly good names.
None of the lines had official names. So the cost would have been the same,
regardless of what choices were made for their official names.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
There was no reason to
change them other than political virtue signalling and the other lines should
have been given similar names.
There was a good reason to choose and apply official names. The only
controversy was over what names were chosen. Incidentally, I also didn’t
agree with the choice of Elizabeth Line for Crossrail, which already had a
perfectly good, familiar name. So it’s not just Labour politicians who play
this game. [It was suggested at the time, long before he became PM, that
he did it in the hope of becoming a future Sir Boris.]
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 11:15:58 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:41:32 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:00:00 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully
they
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim
poverty
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
The switch will be over one week in the autumn, presumably when all the new
maps and signs are ready to be fitted to the stations and trains.
In any case, naming the lines certainly makes sense. I suspect you
wouldn’t
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
be complaining about the cost if you approved of the new names.
3 of the lines already had perfectly good names.
None of the lines had official names. So the cost would have been the same,
regardless of what choices were made for their official names.
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded. As for NLL and Goblin I don't know , but certainly NLL was used
in certain TfL documentation.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
There was no reason to
change them other than political virtue signalling and the other lines should
have been given similar names.
There was a good reason to choose and apply official names. The only
controversy was over what names were chosen. Incidentally, I also didn’t
agree with the choice of Elizabeth Line for Crossrail, which already had a
perfectly good, familiar name. So it’s not just Labour politicians who play
Liz line is a bit naff, but TfL lines are called <something> line in london so
"crossrail" was never really going to be a long term name. Thameslink doesn't
really count as its not TfL and more a collection of branded routes than an
actual line.
Recliner
2024-08-08 13:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:41:32 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 09:00:00 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully
they
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim
poverty
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
The switch will be over one week in the autumn, presumably when all the new
maps and signs are ready to be fitted to the stations and trains.
In any case, naming the lines certainly makes sense. I suspect you
wouldn’t
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
be complaining about the cost if you approved of the new names.
3 of the lines already had perfectly good names.
None of the lines had official names. So the cost would have been the same,
regardless of what choices were made for their official names.
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate lines,
so ELL isn’t usable.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
As for NLL and Goblin I don't know , but certainly NLL was used
in certain TfL documentation.
NLL was the old name for the line, and probably could be used for the
Stratford-Richmond line today. But it probably wouldn’t, because of
potential confusion with the Northern Line.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
There was no reason to
change them other than political virtue signalling and the other lines should
have been given similar names.
There was a good reason to choose and apply official names. The only
controversy was over what names were chosen. Incidentally, I also didn’t
agree with the choice of Elizabeth Line for Crossrail, which already had a
perfectly good, familiar name. So it’s not just Labour politicians who play
Liz line is a bit naff, but TfL lines are called <something> line in london so
"crossrail" was never really going to be a long term name.
Why not? That had long been the intention.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Thameslink doesn't
really count as its not TfL and more a collection of branded routes than an
actual line.
Yes, that’s nothing to do with TfL.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 13:25:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate lines,
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Liz line is a bit naff, but TfL lines are called <something> line in london
so
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
"crossrail" was never really going to be a long term name.
Why not? That had long been the intention.
Because its a description more than a name. And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Recliner
2024-08-08 14:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate lines,
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Liz line is a bit naff, but TfL lines are called <something> line in london
so
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
"crossrail" was never really going to be a long term name.
Why not? That had long been the intention.
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 14:53:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
Recliner
2024-08-08 15:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 15:42:16 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 15:16:09 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Doubt it. Far too many people wanting to go to bank and charing x from
both branches and I doubt camden will be rebuilt in my lifetime, its a huge
project that will cost a fortune for little benefit particularly now the
northern is ATO and usually has a good service.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Crossrail could describe any line really, they all cross something.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Yes, could be.
Graeme Wall
2024-08-08 16:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Or Charlotte!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2024-08-08 22:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Or Charlotte!
Do you think Prince George won’t live long enough to become King?
Graeme Wall
2024-08-09 07:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Or Charlotte!
Do you think Prince George won’t live long enough to become King?
Doesn't have to be named only after the King. We are lucky we didn't get
the Diana Line or have to fly from the Diana International Airport!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2024-08-09 12:31:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Or Charlotte!
Do you think Prince George won’t live long enough to become King?
Doesn't have to be named only after the King. We are lucky we didn't get
the Diana Line or have to fly from the Diana International Airport!
If we were America, airports would probably be named after former mayors.
Graeme Wall
2024-08-09 14:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Or Charlotte!
Do you think Prince George won’t live long enough to become King?
Doesn't have to be named only after the King. We are lucky we didn't get
the Diana Line or have to fly from the Diana International Airport!
If we were America, airports would probably be named after former mayors.
John F Kennedy was mayor of New York?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2024-08-09 15:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 14:30:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate
lines,
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Try looking at the southern end,
So what? Plenty of tube lines split, doesn't make them multiple lines. Using
your approach the Northern Line would be 6 or 7 lines.
It was originally two lines, and will probably return to that, when funds
to redevelop Camden Town are available. Running it as two lines will
increase capacity through central London.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Because it’s a description more than a name.
So what are the District or Metropolitan lines?
District is so vague as to be meaningless and the Met went
It originally was strictly metropolitan in scope (essentially the northern
half of the modern Circle line).
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
and still does go
way beyond the metropolitan area so it was misnamed.
So Crossrail would be no worse.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Crossrail 2 would have a different, unique name. Based on its previous
routing, it was called the Chelney line, but maybe it could be the Wimbney
line?
If it ever gets built I'd lay money on the Charles or William Line.
More likely to be George.
Or Charlotte!
Do you think Prince George won’t live long enough to become King?
Doesn't have to be named only after the King. We are lucky we didn't get
the Diana Line or have to fly from the Diana International Airport!
If we were America, airports would probably be named after former mayors.
John F Kennedy was mayor of New York?
Presidents are the second-most popular people to name US airports after. Of
course, that airport was originally called Idlewild Airport. It
complemented La Guardia airport, named after Mayor Fiorello La Guardia.

Another airport to be renamed after a recent president is Ronald Reagan
Washington National Airport. A more controversial one is George Bush
Intercontinental Airport.
Graeme Wall
2024-08-08 16:30:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 13:12:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
The ELL was the official name when run by LU and AFAIK that was never
rescinded.
That name wasn’t inherited, and in any case, it’s now two separate lines,
so ELL isn’t usable.
Since when has the ELL become 2 seperate lines? Last time I looked its
northern terminus was still highbury.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Liz line is a bit naff, but TfL lines are called <something> line in london
so
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
"crossrail" was never really going to be a long term name.
Why not? That had long been the intention.
Because its a description more than a name. And what happens when/if the
N-S crossrail is built, just call it crossrail 2? If thats the case why not
just start numbering or lettering all new lines as is done in europe.
Some how I doubt many of us will live to see Crossrail 2.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Ken
2024-08-08 17:59:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:16:37 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture
politics by
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them
yet.
Presumably because they haven’t yet come into effect?
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim poverty
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
'Khunt'? Grow up.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-08 18:56:12 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 08 Aug 2024 18:59:53 +0100
Post by Ken
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:16:37 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture
politics by
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them
yet.
Presumably because they haven’t yet come into effect?
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim poverty
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
'Khunt'? Grow up.
Why? Its an accurate description of him. He's a gesture politicing ineffectual
halfwit who acts the big statesman when he can't even manage properly the small
area of portfolio thats actually his. He plays to his core vote and screw
everyone else.
Ken
2024-08-09 09:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 08 Aug 2024 18:59:53 +0100
Post by Ken
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 07 Aug 2024 16:16:37 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Personally I wouldn't bother. The renaming was just pathetic jesture
politics by
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Khunt and even the official TfL journey planner doesn't bother with them
yet.
Presumably because they haven’t yet come into effect?
Haven't they? I have no idea, I don't use the overground atm. Hopefully they
never will but thats probably a forlorn hope. No doubt once Khunt has spent
millions on the rebrand with signs and new maps he'll once again claim poverty
for TfL and head off to westminster with his begging bowl.
'Khunt'? Grow up.
Why? Its an accurate description of him. He's a gesture politicing ineffectual
halfwit who acts the big statesman when he can't even manage properly the small
area of portfolio thats actually his. He plays to his core vote and screw
everyone else.
You hate him because of misinformation you read in your nasty little
racist echo-chambers, because he's a Muslim from Pakistan.

I'm sure you believe he plays to his 'core vote', and we know what
that is meant to mean, completely ignoring that fact that he's elected
by all of the electors of London, as was Johnson and Livingstone.

Enough is enough. Vehicles, libraries, hotels with people in, a
policeman (FFS) have been set on fire by the likes of you. Thousands
of business have been disrupted, many people injured, thousands put in
fear of their lives and millions of pounds of damage caused. I've had
quite enough of people like you.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-08-09 09:42:55 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 09 Aug 2024 10:06:20 +0100
Post by Ken
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
halfwit who acts the big statesman when he can't even manage properly the
small
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
area of portfolio thats actually his. He plays to his core vote and screw
everyone else.
You hate him because of misinformation you read in your nasty little
racist echo-chambers, because he's a Muslim from Pakistan.
Which echo-chambers would that be? As for him being from Pakistan, last time
I looked he was born in Tooting. You're not very good at straw man are you.

I despise him because he screwed over people with his ULEZ extension that
achieved a pathetic 3% reduction in NOx at the expense of a lot of people
including me who had to ditch perfectly good vehicles for nothing as most
of the vehicles would have been scrapped within a few years anyway.

Also when he was an opportunist lawyer he spent a lot of time sueing the
police for spurious claims.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9517181/Sadiq-Khans-law-firm-sued-polic
e-328-TIMES-10-years-raking-1-3m-legal-aid.html

But you probably won't read that because its the Mail and is all right wing
propaganda etc etc blah blah.
Post by Ken
I'm sure you believe he plays to his 'core vote', and we know what
that is meant to mean, completely ignoring that fact that he's elected
by all of the electors of London, as was Johnson and Livingstone.
All? He got a 43% share of the 42% of londoners who voted. Thats an
interesting definition of "all".

Bit yes, his core vote is the ethnic vote.
Post by Ken
Enough is enough. Vehicles, libraries, hotels with people in, a
policeman (FFS) have been set on fire by the likes of you. Thousands
The likes of me? What are the likes of me genius?
Post by Ken
of business have been disrupted, many people injured, thousands put in
fear of their lives and millions of pounds of damage caused. I've had
quite enough of people like you.
Then eff off to another newsgroup you dripping wet hand wringing twat.
People like you who don't listen are the reasons this trouble happened.
Roland Perry
2024-08-08 13:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by MikeS
On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 13:42:42 +0100, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
On Wed, 7 Aug 2024 12:42:42 +0100, Graeme Wall
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Completely redrawn to show the current London Underground
network and associated lines, my London Circles map v2 is better
than ever before, and more geographically accurate than the official version!
http://www.tubemapcentral.com
More geographically accurate is stretching things a bit. Ingenious but
after a lifetime using Beck's version I find it confusing.
I wonder how easily the zones could be overlaid on it?
Shouldn't be any more difficult than on the Beck version.
I think it might be, because of the way he bends the lines. That may
be why he's left them off.
Regardless of whether it is geographically accurate it doesn't show the
recently named/coloured individual Overground lines.
Yes, he'll need to update it for those.
It does seem to be more geographically accurate, though. As Graeme
said, it's hard to switch from the familiar Beck approach, but this
does seem to use the space better.
It may better represent which stations are closer together, but that's
hard to reconcile with a 90-degree bend in the ECML a few miles north of
KGX.
--
Roland Perry
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