Elizabeth Line wins Stirling prize for architecture

[Recliner]

On Wednesday, the Elizabeth Line collected the Stirling prize, usually
awarded to the country’s best new building, at a lavish ceremony at the
Roundhouse in Camden, prompting critics to ponder just how much of the
£18.8 billion project can be considered architecture and how much of it is
actually engineering. Given that it was also plagued by cost overruns of £4
billion and delivered three and a half years late, it may prove the most
controversial winner of the Stirling prize, conferred annually by the Royal
Institute of British Architects (Riba), for many years.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/6fbe4ec2-14f6-422c-890f-10aca044ae6d?shareToken=593fc0327b2b771348a5fc38907962fc

How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

[Marland]

Post by Recliner
On Wednesday, the Elizabeth Line collected the Stirling prize, usually
awarded to the country’s best new building, at a lavish ceremony at the
Roundhouse in Camden, prompting critics to ponder just how much of the
£18.8 billion project can be considered architecture and how much of it is
actually engineering. Given that it was also plagued by cost overruns of £4
billion and delivered three and a half years late, it may prove the most
controversial winner of the Stirling prize, conferred annually by the Royal
Institute of British Architects (Riba), for many years.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/6fbe4ec2-14f6-422c-890f-10aca044ae6d?shareToken=593fc0327b2b771348a5fc38907962fc
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

By coincidence I took my first trip on it today and decided to go between
Paddington and Abbey Wood. Very well used by the look of it. Travelled on
a few other routes that I had never done before or had not done for a long
time. Happened to have advanced purchase tickets to and from London
intending to visit an elderly relative but he was bit unwell so I did
something I haven’t done for nearly
ten years and just tour around London by train for a day. Oyster card
linked to senior railcard makes a relatively cheap day out.

GH

[M***@DastartdlyHQ.org]

On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 21:47:16 GMT

£18.8 billion project can be considered architecture and how much of it is
actually engineering. Given that it was also plagued by cost overruns of £4

A very blurry distinction given the former relies on the latter anyway.

[Ken W]

Post by Recliner
On Wednesday, the Elizabeth Line collected the Stirling prize, usually
awarded to the country’s best new building, at a lavish ceremony at the
Roundhouse in Camden, prompting critics to ponder just how much of the
£18.8 billion project can be considered architecture and how much of it is
actually engineering. Given that it was also plagued by cost overruns of £4
billion and delivered three and a half years late, it may prove the most
controversial winner of the Stirling prize, conferred annually by the Royal
Institute of British Architects (Riba), for many years.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/6fbe4ec2-14f6-422c-890f-10aca044ae6d?shareToken=593fc0327b2b771348a5fc38907962fc
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

Before the "cost overruns of £4billion" prompts a wave of ill-informed
comment, IMO it's worth noting that a significant part of this was due to
unforeseen delays rather than errors in budgeting or construction cost
management. To mention a couple:

● Incompatibility of EL signalling systems with NR caused major holdups,
despite assurances to the contrary from both suppliers and outside experts
● Bond Street redevelopment was an engineers' and contractors' nightmare which
has been well chronicled here and elsewhere
● Some stretches of tunnelling were slowed by poor ground conditions which had
not been identified despite extensive surveys, boreholes etc.

Inicidentally, some of those involved in Crossrail cost management say that it
was one of the most stringent they had ever encountered.

Ken W

[Peter Johnson]

Post by Recliner
On Wednesday, the Elizabeth Line collected the Stirling prize, usually
awarded to the country’s best new building, at a lavish ceremony at the
Roundhouse in Camden, prompting critics to ponder just how much of the
£18.8 billion project can be considered architecture and how much of it is
actually engineering. Given that it was also plagued by cost overruns of £4
billion and delivered three and a half years late, it may prove the most
controversial winner of the Stirling prize, conferred annually by the Royal
Institute of British Architects (Riba), for many years.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/6fbe4ec2-14f6-422c-890f-10aca044ae6d?shareToken=593fc0327b2b771348a5fc38907962fc
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.
The Guardian's reporter was also quite rude about the stations outside
the central core, while not noticing that most of them were not built
for the EL.

[M***@DastartdlyHQ.org]

On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 14:21:18 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Recliner
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.

Perhaps it would have been too much for a single architects practice?
I imagine things are a lot more detailed and stringent now compared to
Greens day.

[Marland]

Post by M***@DastartdlyHQ.org
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 14:21:18 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Recliner
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.

Perhaps it would have been too much for a single architects practice?
I imagine things are a lot more detailed and stringent now compared to
Greens day.

Not having to allow for escalators would be one major difference, a
vertical shaft must be easier to fit inside a given area than an inclined
one.


GH

[Bevan Price]

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastartdlyHQ.org
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 14:21:18 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Recliner
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.

Perhaps it would have been too much for a single architects practice?
I imagine things are a lot more detailed and stringent now compared to
Greens day.

Not having to allow for escalators would be one major difference, a
vertical shaft must be easier to fit inside a given area than an inclined
one.
GH

Maybe - but how to people get out of the stations when there is a power
cut and/or the lifts do not work ?

[Recliner]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastartdlyHQ.org
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 14:21:18 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Recliner
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.

Perhaps it would have been too much for a single architects practice?
I imagine things are a lot more detailed and stringent now compared to
Greens day.

Not having to allow for escalators would be one major difference, a
vertical shaft must be easier to fit inside a given area than an inclined
one.
GH

Maybe - but how to people get out of the stations when there is a power
cut and/or the lifts do not work ?

The original Tube stations had spiral stairs for emergencies. There was
always more than one lift.

[Mark Goodge]

Post by Marland

Post by M***@DastartdlyHQ.org
On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 14:21:18 +0100

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Recliner
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.

Perhaps it would have been too much for a single architects practice?
I imagine things are a lot more detailed and stringent now compared to
Greens day.

Not having to allow for escalators would be one major difference, a
vertical shaft must be easier to fit inside a given area than an inclined
one.

Escalators have much greater capacity than lifts, though. The earliest tube
stations had lifts, but many of them were subsequently rebuilt with
escalators, and from 1912 all new deep tube stations had escalators.

But, on the other hand, lifts are more accessible to people with
disabilities than escalators. So a more recent move is to have both lifts
and escalators, the escalators for capacity and the lifts for accessibility.

Mark

[Recliner]

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by Recliner
On Wednesday, the Elizabeth Line collected the Stirling prize, usually
awarded to the country’s best new building, at a lavish ceremony at the
Roundhouse in Camden, prompting critics to ponder just how much of the
£18.8 billion project can be considered architecture and how much of it is
actually engineering. Given that it was also plagued by cost overruns of £4
billion and delivered three and a half years late, it may prove the most
controversial winner of the Stirling prize, conferred annually by the Royal
Institute of British Architects (Riba), for many years.
https://www.thetimes.com/article/6fbe4ec2-14f6-422c-890f-10aca044ae6d?shareToken=593fc0327b2b771348a5fc38907962fc
How fitting that a new railway receives the prize in a a nearby old railway
roundhouse in the same borough!

THe Guardian report nots that the award was for the underground works,
tunnels &c, and that the central core stations, each by a different
architect, would have benefitted by a unified design that made them
obvious Elizabeth Line, like the Leslie Gree buildings.

I don’t agree with that comment. The stations vary, in many cases just
being an entrance in a normal office block or even an integrated part of a
larger station (eg, Whitechapel, Stratford, Tottenham Court Road). Canary
Wharf’s Crossrail Place is rare, being a signature island building in its
own right. I don’t think a standard Leslie Green style approach would work
for such a variety of surface buildings.

Post by Peter Johnson
The Guardian's reporter was also quite rude about the stations outside
the central core, while not noticing that most of them were not built
for the EL.

Yes, not only were the original stations much older than the EL, but the
new buildings were built by NR.