ticketing question: outboundary travelcards

[martin]

This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)

My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.

As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at £69.70?
This will presumably also let me use buses and tubes in London without
having done the leg on the train first. Will it likely get eaten by
the ticket barrier in Slough on the last day of its validity?

thanks,
- martin

[Roy Stilling]

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at £69.70?
This will presumably also let me use buses and tubes in London without
having done the leg on the train first. Will it likely get eaten by
the ticket barrier in Slough on the last day of its validity?

No because a period season ticket is valid for as many journeys on a
given day that you want to make, so the gate wouldn't know if you want
to use it again on the final day. It's only the one-day travelcards
that are only valid for one journey each way between origin and
London.
--
Roy

[Mizter T]

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)

;-)

Post by martin
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at £69.70?

Yes, I'd think so.

One thing I'm not sure about is whether you could actually buy said ticket
at the London end - outboundary Travelcards are kinda intended for people
travelling into London, and I believe they're excluded from the normal rules
whereby a ticket office is supposed to sell any ticket a punter asks for (or
maybe that only applies to outboundary Day Travelcards?).

Anyway if that's an issue it's also easily sidestepped - just buy online,
e.g. from Southern:
http://www.southernrailway.com/tickets-and-fares/season-tickets/

Note that you'll need a photocard.

(This does assume that your employer is willing to pay for your travel in
London to get to Paddington - though that'd be a reasonable thing to expect,
unless perhaps you worked next to Paddington station.)

Post by martin
This will presumably also let me use buses and tubes in London without
having done the leg on the train first. Will it likely get eaten by
the ticket barrier in Slough on the last day of its validity?

No - season tickets are valid for unlimited travel, so you could
legitimately travel several times between London and Slough on the final day
of validity. If however it was a Day Travelcard then it might get swallowed
on return to Slough (a holder should be allowed to retain it if they ask,
not least because Slough is served by a London bus route, the 81).

[Graham Harrison]

Post by Mizter T

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)

;-)

Post by martin
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at £69.70?

Yes, I'd think so.
One thing I'm not sure about is whether you could actually buy said ticket
at the London end - outboundary Travelcards are kinda intended for people
travelling into London, and I believe they're excluded from the normal
rules whereby a ticket office is supposed to sell any ticket a punter asks
for (or maybe that only applies to outboundary Day Travelcards?).
Anyway if that's an issue it's also easily sidestepped - just buy online,
http://www.southernrailway.com/tickets-and-fares/season-tickets/
Note that you'll need a photocard.
(This does assume that your employer is willing to pay for your travel in
London to get to Paddington - though that'd be a reasonable thing to
expect, unless perhaps you worked next to Paddington station.)

Post by martin
This will presumably also let me use buses and tubes in London without
having done the leg on the train first. Will it likely get eaten by
the ticket barrier in Slough on the last day of its validity?

No - season tickets are valid for unlimited travel, so you could
legitimately travel several times between London and Slough on the final
day of validity. If however it was a Day Travelcard then it might get
swallowed on return to Slough (a holder should be allowed to retain it if
they ask, not least because Slough is served by a London bus route, the
81).

My first thought was that the OP needs a Z1-6 to Slough season but actually
buying a Slough to Z1-6 in advance via the web would seem to overcome issues
about whether you can even buy the ticket from Z1-6.

[David Walters]

Post by Mizter T

Post by martin
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at £69.70?

Yes, I'd think so.
One thing I'm not sure about is whether you could actually buy said ticket
at the London end - outboundary Travelcards are kinda intended for people
travelling into London, and I believe they're excluded from the normal rules
whereby a ticket office is supposed to sell any ticket a punter asks for (or
maybe that only applies to outboundary Day Travelcards?).

In the past I've bought a 7-day Zones + Redhill travelcard from my local
tube station without any problems.

[Paul Corfield]

Post by Mizter T
One thing I'm not sure about is whether you could actually buy said ticket
at the London end - outboundary Travelcards are kinda intended for people
travelling into London, and I believe they're excluded from the normal rules
whereby a ticket office is supposed to sell any ticket a punter asks for (or
maybe that only applies to outboundary Day Travelcards?).

It only applies to one day tickets. Many eons ago when I was creating
the base data for UTS machines on LUL there was a range of Z16 plus out
boundary destinations for season ticket purchases. Not quite sure it
works with Oyster these days but I'm sure a NR or a LUL ticket office
will be able to advise appropriately.

[M J Forbes]

Post by Mizter T
One thing I'm not sure about is whether you could actually buy said ticket
at the London end - outboundary Travelcards are kinda intended for people
travelling into London, and I believe they're excluded from the normal rules
whereby a ticket office is supposed to sell any ticket a punter asks for (or
maybe that only applies to outboundary Day Travelcards?).

Shouldn't be a problem - I used to buy a Basingstoke-Zones weekly/
monthly season from Ealing Broadway, as I lived in W5 and worked in
Hampshire. I never had a problem buying this ticket at EBY.

M

[David Cantrell]

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at =A369.70?

Be Careful.

Last time I needed a different ticket to normal for work, I decided to
save my employer money by buying the appropriate weekly ticket instead
of five dailies. I then put in my expenses claim, only to find that it
got classed as a taxable benefit because I could also use it at the
weekend. Never mind that I already had my normal monthly ticket that
covered everything that I'd want to do at the weekend anyway, and, in
your case, that no-one would ever want to go to Slough.

Since then I've not tried to save my employers money and just got lots
of expensive point to point tickets.

[martin]

Post by David Cantrell

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at =A369.70?

Be Careful.
Last time I needed a different ticket to normal for work, I decided to
save my employer money by buying the appropriate weekly ticket instead
of five dailies.  I then put in my expenses claim, only to find that it
got classed as a taxable benefit because I could also use it at the
weekend.  Never mind that I already had my normal monthly ticket that
covered everything that I'd want to do at the weekend anyway, and, in
your case, that no-one would ever want to go to Slough.
Since then I've not tried to save my employers money and just got lots
of expensive point to point tickets.

Thanks for the warning - I'm not sure that my employer's expenses
department will be clued-up enough to notice, but I suppose I could
argue that only 2/7ths of the cost of the ticket ought to be taxable!
(In the case of this ticket, it would be of use to me during the
weekend as a z1-6 travelcard - I suppose I could promise not to use it
for leisure purposes, but in practice, there's no way they'd ever
know...)

[David A Stocks]

Post by David Cantrell
Be Careful.
Last time I needed a different ticket to normal for work, I decided to
save my employer money by buying the appropriate weekly ticket instead
of five dailies. I then put in my expenses claim, only to find that it
got classed as a taxable benefit because I could also use it at the
weekend. Never mind that I already had my normal monthly ticket that
covered everything that I'd want to do at the weekend anyway, and, in
your case, that no-one would ever want to go to Slough.

I tried something similar, although in my case it was my (public sector)
employer's insistence on using a preferred supplier (Expotel) to book the
tickets that stopped me getting a 7-day Travelcard. In my case the 5
standard class dailies came to a total cost considerably greater than a
first class 7-day ticket.

It's nice to know your taxes are being spent wisely.

--
DAS

[David Jackman]

Post by David Cantrell

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at =A369.70?

Be Careful.
Last time I needed a different ticket to normal for work, I decided to
save my employer money by buying the appropriate weekly ticket instead
of five dailies. I then put in my expenses claim, only to find that it
got classed as a taxable benefit because I could also use it at the
weekend. Never mind that I already had my normal monthly ticket that
covered everything that I'd want to do at the weekend anyway, and, in
your case, that no-one would ever want to go to Slough.

That doesn't sound right.

See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM16065.htm (not quite the
situation here, but the same principles apply).

Post by David Cantrell
Since then I've not tried to save my employers money and just got lots
of expensive point to point tickets.

[Clive D. W. Feather]

Post by David Jackman

Post by David Cantrell
Last time I needed a different ticket to normal for work, I decided to
save my employer money by buying the appropriate weekly ticket instead
of five dailies. I then put in my expenses claim, only to find that it
got classed as a taxable benefit because I could also use it at the
weekend.

That doesn't sound right.
See http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM16065.htm (not quite the
situation here, but the same principles apply).

Even better, see
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM16066.htm
and the examples at
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM16067.htm

If the individual journeys would have cost more than the season ticket,
there's nothing chargeable to tax. If they would have cost less, then
only the difference is chargeable.

Suppose on a particular route a day return ticket is £12.00 while a
weekly season is £50.00. If you buy a season and make 5 return journeys
for work, 5 * 12 >= 50 so there's no taxable benefit. If you only make 3
return journeys, then there's tax to pay on 50 - 3 * 12 = £14.00.

Where you use your own travelcard for commuting and the occasional
business trip, the situation is reversed and you can't count any of it
as an expense. If you buy a further-range ticket to cover work trips,
you can count some of it. See
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM31833.htm

[MJA]

Post by martin
This is probably a rather simple question, but I thought I'd come to
u.t.l to see how many answers you lot could come up with :)
My work has booked me on a 5-day training course. It's in Slough, so
I've got the joys of a commute via Paddington to look forward to.
As I usually rely on Oyster PAYG, season tickets are a bit of a
mystery to me. Am I right in thinking that the ticket I'm after is a 7
day Slough to London R1256 at £69.70?
This will presumably also let me use buses and tubes in London without
having done the leg on the train first. Will it likely get eaten by
the ticket barrier in Slough on the last day of its validity?
thanks,
- martin

Isn't this one of the routes on which season tickets are more
expensive than 5 daily tickets?

I only have NFM92 to hand, so prices will have gone up in the
intervening years, but the relative differences would still be the
same:

London Terminals to Slough:
SDR £7.40
7D £46.20

but there is a saving in the other direction:

Slough to London Terminals:
SDR £11.50
7D £46.20

It may be worth checking the current NFM CD, which I don't have
available. A season ticket is not the best choice when it is priced
for the busiest direction of travel, and you want to travel against
the flow.

Regards,

MJA

[Mizter T]

[London to Slough]
Isn't this one of the routes on which season tickets are more
expensive than 5 daily tickets?
I only have NFM92 to hand, so prices will have gone up in the
intervening years, but the relative differences would still be the
SDR £7.40
7D £46.20
SDR £11.50
7D £46.20
It may be worth checking the current NFM CD, which I don't have
available. A season ticket is not the best choice when it is priced
for the busiest direction of travel, and you want to travel against
the flow.

No need for the NFM / Avantix CD-ROM, all the fares can be found on the
online booking sites.

London Terminals to Slough
Anytime Return £11.90

Slough to London Terminals
Anytime Return £13.50

7-day season between the two £53.00

So the season is still cheaper. (Obviously this comparison doesn't take into
account the Travelcard element.)

Nonetheless your point about checking that is a good one - I think SWT has a
number of such examples.