Discussion:
1992 stock refurb
(too old to reply)
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-15 17:02:14 UTC
Permalink
First train is running, Geoff Marshal goes for a ride:



I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
Recliner
2023-12-15 17:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.

So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.

I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-16 10:10:10 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:34:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.
So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.
Yes, bit of a shame but LU don't seem too concerned about passengers seeing
out these days.
Post by Recliner
I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Though fewer passengers will get to appreciate
the seats anyway given how many appear to have been taken out for accessability
reasons. Space for 2 (or is it 4?) wheelchairs per car seems pretty
excessive unless its only a few cars in the train.
Recliner
2023-12-16 11:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:34:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.
So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.
Yes, bit of a shame but LU don't seem too concerned about passengers seeing
out these days.
Post by Recliner
I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Though fewer passengers will get to appreciate
the seats anyway given how many appear to have been taken out for accessability
reasons. Space for 2 (or is it 4?) wheelchairs per car seems pretty
excessive unless its only a few cars in the train.
Two wheelchair bays per 8-car train:

"The new Central line trains will have two wheelchair bays, each able to
accommodate two wheelchair users. Twelve seats have been removed to create
the wheelchair bays. The spaces can be used for standing passengers or for
luggage when not required by a wheelchair user."

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/central-line-trains-cctv-seats-moquette-tfl-london-underground-b1120566.html
Graeme Wall
2023-12-16 16:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:34:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.
So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.
Yes, bit of a shame but LU don't seem too concerned about passengers seeing
out these days.
Given that the majority spend the entire trip staring at their phones,
that seems fair.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Though fewer passengers will get to appreciate
the seats anyway given how many appear to have been taken out for accessability
reasons. Space for 2 (or is it 4?) wheelchairs per car seems pretty
excessive unless its only a few cars in the train.
Wheelchair spaces have tip-up seats, as on buses.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2023-12-16 17:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:34:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.
So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.
Yes, bit of a shame but LU don't seem too concerned about passengers seeing
out these days.
Given that the majority spend the entire trip staring at their phones,
that seems fair.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Though fewer passengers will get to appreciate
the seats anyway given how many appear to have been taken out for accessability
reasons. Space for 2 (or is it 4?) wheelchairs per car seems pretty
excessive unless its only a few cars in the train.
Wheelchair spaces have tip-up seats, as on buses.
Are you sure? I couldn't see any in the video, and they're not mentioned
in the reports:

"The new Central line trains will have two wheelchair bays, each able to
accommodate two wheelchair users. Twelve seats have been removed to create
the wheelchair bays. The spaces can be used for standing passengers or for
luggage when not required by a wheelchair user."
Graeme Wall
2023-12-16 17:16:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:34:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.
So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.
Yes, bit of a shame but LU don't seem too concerned about passengers seeing
out these days.
Given that the majority spend the entire trip staring at their phones,
that seems fair.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Though fewer passengers will get to appreciate
the seats anyway given how many appear to have been taken out for accessability
reasons. Space for 2 (or is it 4?) wheelchairs per car seems pretty
excessive unless its only a few cars in the train.
Wheelchair spaces have tip-up seats, as on buses.
Are you sure? I couldn't see any in the video, and they're not mentioned
"The new Central line trains will have two wheelchair bays, each able to
accommodate two wheelchair users. Twelve seats have been removed to create
the wheelchair bays. The spaces can be used for standing passengers or for
luggage when not required by a wheelchair user."
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2023-12-16 17:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 17:34:16 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
http://youtu.be/-aU4X4O_WUI
I was thinking what a nice refurb until it got to 9:23 where some old
graffiti corrosion on a door is clearly visible. You'd think they'd have
sorted that out for gods sake or at least replaced it with an undamaged door
from another train as it looks a right mess.
More than one door was scratched or had graffiti. I suppose they're not
part of the refurbishment.
So the trains lose their high windows that curve into the roof, with the
new PIS blocking the upper curve of the windows.
Yes, bit of a shame but LU don't seem too concerned about passengers seeing
out these days.
Given that the majority spend the entire trip staring at their phones,
that seems fair.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
I wonder which research labs were contracted to create the inevitable
harder-than-diamond seats? Maybe the new moquette hides a bed of nails?
I wouldn't be at all surprised. Though fewer passengers will get to appreciate
the seats anyway given how many appear to have been taken out for accessability
reasons. Space for 2 (or is it 4?) wheelchairs per car seems pretty
excessive unless its only a few cars in the train.
Wheelchair spaces have tip-up seats, as on buses.
Are you sure? I couldn't see any in the video, and they're not mentioned
"The new Central line trains will have two wheelchair bays, each able to
accommodate two wheelchair users. Twelve seats have been removed to create
the wheelchair bays. The spaces can be used for standing passengers or for
luggage when not required by a wheelchair user."
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
No, they're quite different, and definitely no tip-up seats:

<Loading Image...>
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-18 09:12:27 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
Recliner
2023-12-18 09:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)?
No, as the video said, LU is handling this project in-house.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
My guess is that it's because they've found that once the tip-up seats are
occupied by ordinary passengers, they are reluctant to give them up to
wheelchair users.

As more stations are made accessible, presumably more wheelchair users will
be seen.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-18 09:28:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 09:23:42 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)?
No, as the video said, LU is handling this project in-house.
While I'm sure LU has some good maintenance skills I can't imagine it extends
to completely stripping out the traction system and fitting an entirely new
one following some kind of Ikea style assembly instructions from the
manufacturer. Maybe it was done on LU premises but I'd be quite a few quid it
was done by Alsthom (or whoever) employees.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
My guess is that it's because they've found that once the tip-up seats are
occupied by ordinary passengers, they are reluctant to give them up to
wheelchair users.
Could be that.
Post by Recliner
As more stations are made accessible, presumably more wheelchair users will
be seen.
Quite possibly, though the DLR has been accessible since it was built and I
rarely saw a wheelchair used on that. I suspect they find dial-a-ride a lot
more convenient.
Recliner
2023-12-18 09:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 09:23:42 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)?
No, as the video said, LU is handling this project in-house.
While I'm sure LU has some good maintenance skills I can't imagine it extends
to completely stripping out the traction system and fitting an entirely new
one following some kind of Ikea style assembly instructions from the
manufacturer. Maybe it was done on LU premises but I'd be quite a few quid it
was done by Alsthom (or whoever) employees.
Alstom Sweden is one of many sub-contractors to the project. The trains
were originally built by what was then still BREL in Derby, but the motors
and bogies came from elsewhere (as is still the case with trains built in
Derby).

https://industrialnews.co.uk/upgrading-london-undergrounds-central-line-tube-stock/
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-18 10:05:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 09:46:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
While I'm sure LU has some good maintenance skills I can't imagine it extends
to completely stripping out the traction system and fitting an entirely new
one following some kind of Ikea style assembly instructions from the
manufacturer. Maybe it was done on LU premises but I'd be quite a few quid it
was done by Alsthom (or whoever) employees.
Alstom Sweden is one of many sub-contractors to the project. The trains
were originally built by what was then still BREL in Derby, but the motors
and bogies came from elsewhere (as is still the case with trains built in
Derby).
https://industrialnews.co.uk/upgrading-london-undergrounds-central-line-tube-st
ock/
Interesting article but a few raised eyebrows on my part.

"are doing far more work than was ever planned, some 160,000 km per train, per
year compared with the designed 127,000 km"

Really? How did they get that forecast so badly wrong? They must have known
what service level would be required particularly after ATO was installed.

"This involves replacing 2,720 traction motors"

I can't believe the motors were life expired after 30 years unless they were
really poorly constructed. Seems a hell of a waste and I doubt a modern DC
control package would be noticably less efficient than an AC one.

"Doors and door engines are removed for overhaul;"

Door engines maybe. Doors clearly not.
Recliner
2023-12-20 15:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 09:46:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
While I'm sure LU has some good maintenance skills I can't imagine it extends
to completely stripping out the traction system and fitting an entirely new
one following some kind of Ikea style assembly instructions from the
manufacturer. Maybe it was done on LU premises but I'd be quite a few quid it
was done by Alsthom (or whoever) employees.
Alstom Sweden is one of many sub-contractors to the project. The trains
were originally built by what was then still BREL in Derby, but the motors
and bogies came from elsewhere (as is still the case with trains built in
Derby).
https://industrialnews.co.uk/upgrading-london-undergrounds-central-line-tube-st
ock/
Interesting article but a few raised eyebrows on my part.
"are doing far more work than was ever planned, some 160,000 km per train, per
year compared with the designed 127,000 km"
Really? How did they get that forecast so badly wrong? They must have known
what service level would be required particularly after ATO was installed.
"This involves replacing 2,720 traction motors"
I can't believe the motors were life expired after 30 years unless they were
really poorly constructed. Seems a hell of a waste and I doubt a modern DC
control package would be noticably less efficient than an AC one.
"Doors and door engines are removed for overhaul;"
Door engines maybe. Doors clearly not.
The doors had definitely been removed, but it looks like some unrefurbished doors had been refitted to the train Geoff
travelled on.
Graeme Wall
2023-12-18 11:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
I saw a wheelchair on the Met on Friday, IRC that is the first time I
have seen one on the Underground.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2023-12-18 14:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
I saw a wheelchair on the Met on Friday, IRC that is the first time I
have seen one on the Underground.
I've pushed one a few times via St Pancras Western Ticket Hall to
Hammersmith (and then onwards by bus).

But it's quite a strain given the route-marching involved landside at
KGX/STP to get from $random National Rail platform to $random tube
platform.

Our most recent trip to London we gave up, and drove (hence all the
angst about ULEZ, £30/day parking etc). I've yet to be informed I was
auto-billed for Congestion Charge, so eagerly awaiting a PN to
challenge.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2023-12-18 16:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
I saw a wheelchair on the Met on Friday, IRC that is the first time I
have seen one on the Underground.
I've pushed one a few times via St Pancras Western Ticket Hall to
Hammersmith (and then onwards by bus).
But it's quite a strain given the route-marching involved landside at
KGX/STP to get from $random National Rail platform to $random tube
platform.
Our most recent trip to London we gave up, and drove (hence all the
angst about ULEZ, £30/day parking etc). I've yet to be informed I was
auto-billed for Congestion Charge, so eagerly awaiting a PN to
challenge.
The CC zone is quite small — I assume you had to visit somewhere inside it?
Otherwise, it's quite easy to avoid.
Roland Perry
2023-12-18 18:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
I saw a wheelchair on the Met on Friday, IRC that is the first time I
have seen one on the Underground.
I've pushed one a few times via St Pancras Western Ticket Hall to
Hammersmith (and then onwards by bus).
But it's quite a strain given the route-marching involved landside at
KGX/STP to get from $random National Rail platform to $random tube
platform.
Our most recent trip to London we gave up, and drove (hence all the
angst about ULEZ, £30/day parking etc). I've yet to be informed I was
auto-billed for Congestion Charge, so eagerly awaiting a PN to
challenge.
The CC zone is quite small — I assume you had to visit somewhere inside it?
Otherwise, it's quite easy to avoid.
I wouldn't have mentioned it unless it was unavoidable. Didn't I post a
photo of my car parked at Waterloo Station, well inside the area, and a
few minutes walk from my hotel, which has no parking at all (apart from
a 20-minute blue badge compound in the basement you might fit perhaps
six vehicles into, but you need to get someone to unlock the gate, which
they were very happy to do, but it's all a bit of a faff; and then you
need someone with a staff pass to unlock the lift to get into the hotel
itself).
--
Roland Perry
Marland
2023-12-18 18:07:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.

GH
Roland Perry
2023-12-18 19:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/Fi
le:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2023-12-18 20:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/Fi
le:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board  cyclists
will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
Good for you!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2023-12-20 19:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board 
cyclists will occupy them ,some will not move for other users the
spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
Good for you!
Last week we were at an attraction in Central London whose lifts were
clearly marked "Only for people who cannot use the stairs". But
apparently there are hordes of people who can't read, either.

They are very likely the same people who forgot to order the optional
extra direction indicators for their new Audi.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-19 09:36:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Dec 2023 19:05:49 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/Fi
le:Wheelc
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
Roland Perry
2023-12-20 20:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
--
Roland Perry
Marland
2023-12-20 21:24:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
A moving train has a local control room?
You are able to influence a court ?
Even if you have such influence and a perpetuator eventually ends up in
Jail that won’t restore missing teeth or a damaged eye or worse if they use
a knife.

OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an age related
condition setting in.

If it is Roland making that statement he needs to remember that his
contacts in the control room
will be ageing at the same pace as himself, that means they will be
changing jobs,moving ,retiring
or getting ill themselves and it isn’t that long before such churn will see
a new team in place to whom
Roland will be an irrelevant old has been who is given attention till the
phone is hung up and they get on with their current tasks with no time for
the distraction of someone attempting to bypass normal channels.

GH
Roland Perry
2023-12-21 08:22:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board
cyclists will occupy them ,some will not move for other users the
spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
A moving train has a local control room?
No, but the control room on land can arrange for the train to be met at
the next convenient station.
Post by Marland
You are able to influence a court ?
It's a more a case of being able to influence the prosecutors to bring
it to court. After that it's an open and shut case.
Post by Marland
Even if you have such influence and a perpetuator eventually ends up in
Jail that won’t restore missing teeth or a damaged eye or worse if they use
a knife.
I don't think the lycra louts are likely to be that aggressive.
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an age related
condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles (got a youngster to push the
wheelchair up a ramp last week, and they said "that's much harder
than it looks"). And yes, I'd be more tolerant if travelling alone,
however we are where we are.
Post by Marland
If it is Roland making that statement he needs to remember that his
contacts in the control room will be ageing at the same pace as
himself, that means they will be changing jobs,moving ,retiring or
getting ill themselves and it isn’t that long before such churn will
see a new team in place to whom Roland will be an irrelevant old has
been who is given attention till the phone is hung up and they get on
with their current tasks with no time for the distraction of someone
attempting to bypass normal channels.
Yes, that particular channel will rot away over time, but you
underestimate the effect that being put on notice in a place like
that has. They really don't want the paperwork involved, when
something they ignore goes bad.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-21 09:40:27 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 08:22:15 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Even if you have such influence and a perpetuator eventually ends up in
Jail that won’t restore missing teeth or a damaged eye or worse if they use
a knife.
I don't think the lycra louts are likely to be that aggressive.
I wouldn't be too confident about that if I were you. IME some of these twats
can be quite aggressive. Whether it would extend to physical violence who
knows but why take the chance particularly if you're with your wife at the
time.
Roland Perry
2023-12-21 12:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 08:22:15 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Even if you have such influence and a perpetuator eventually ends up in
Jail that won’t restore missing teeth or a damaged eye or worse if they use
a knife.
I don't think the lycra louts are likely to be that aggressive.
I wouldn't be too confident about that if I were you. IME some of these twats
can be quite aggressive. Whether it would extend to physical violence who
knows but why take the chance particularly if you're with your wife at the
time.
Partly because I've been on training courses about handling situations
like that. And even the normally super-reserved British public might
intervene if there's an old man pushing a wheelchair being thumped by a
chav.

<thread convergence> They might even film it on their mobile phone.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-21 15:59:30 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 12:25:36 +0000
Post by Marland
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 08:22:15 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Even if you have such influence and a perpetuator eventually ends up in
Jail that won’t restore missing teeth or a damaged eye or worse if
they use
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
a knife.
I don't think the lycra louts are likely to be that aggressive.
I wouldn't be too confident about that if I were you. IME some of these twats
can be quite aggressive. Whether it would extend to physical violence who
knows but why take the chance particularly if you're with your wife at the
time.
Partly because I've been on training courses about handling situations
like that. And even the normally super-reserved British public might
intervene if there's an old man pushing a wheelchair being thumped by a
chav.
I wouldn't bet on it. Turning a blind eye seems to be more par for the course
these days.
Post by Marland
<thread convergence> They might even film it on their mobile phone.
Instead of helping you.
Robin
2023-12-21 10:04:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board
cyclists will  occupy them ,some will not move for other users the
spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
A moving train has a local control room?
No, but the control room on land can arrange for the train to be met at
the next convenient station.
Post by Marland
You are able to influence a court ?
It's a more a case of being able to influence the prosecutors to bring
it to court. After that it's an open and shut case.
How so?

TfL conditions of carriage (10.1.3) give wheelchair users priority over
designated spaces on buses but AFAICS have nothing similar for
Underground, DLR, London Overground and Elizabeth line. And nothing in
the byelaws.

Meanwhile tossing a bike looks likely to amount to criminal damage; and
then there's assault if you seek to overcome attempts by people to stop
you. Remember that self-defence extends to defence of property.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roland Perry
2023-12-21 13:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board
cyclists will  occupy them ,some will not move for other users
the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have
a stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think
cyling makes them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a
few riding fast on the pavement or through red lights when I was
trying to cross. Luckily I'm a fairly big guy so they just resort
to the finger or abuse before pedalling off but I reckon a few of
them would have started trouble with someone smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
A moving train has a local control room?
No, but the control room on land can arrange for the train to be met
at the next convenient station.
Post by Marland
You are able to influence a court ?
It's a more a case of being able to influence the prosecutors to
bring it to court. After that it's an open and shut case.
How so?
TfL conditions of carriage (10.1.3) give wheelchair users priority over
designated spaces on buses but AFAICS have nothing similar for
Underground, DLR, London Overground and Elizabeth line. And nothing in
the byelaws.
It's not just technology-specific byelaws, but signage on the trains. If
there wasn't a generic thing in the byelaws saying people should obey
signage, I'd be very surprised.
Post by Robin
Meanwhile tossing a bike looks likely to amount to criminal damage;
Nonsense. Moving a bike from where it's not allowed to be would never
fly in court as a cause of action for criminal damage.
Post by Robin
and then there's assault if you seek to overcome attempts by people to
stop you.
I'm not assaulting their bike, they are assaulting me.
Post by Robin
Remember that self-defence extends to defence of property.
Rubbish. The courts aren't full of cases of people who have been
acquitted of assault because they were violently preventing their
illegally parked car being towed away.
--
Roland Perry
Robin
2023-12-21 13:39:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board
cyclists will  occupy them ,some will not move for other users
the  spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have
a  stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think
cyling makes  them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a
few riding fast  on the  pavement or through red lights when I was
trying to cross. Luckily  I'm a  fairly big guy so they just
resort to the finger or abuse before  pedalling  off but I reckon
a few of them would have started trouble with someone  smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
A moving train has a local control room?
 No, but the control room on land can arrange for the train to be met
at  the next convenient station.
Post by Marland
You are able to influence a court ?
 It's a more a case of being able to influence the prosecutors to
bring  it to court. After that it's an open and shut case.
How so?
TfL conditions of carriage (10.1.3) give wheelchair users priority
over designated spaces on buses but AFAICS have nothing similar for
Underground, DLR, London Overground and Elizabeth line.  And nothing
in the byelaws.
It's not just technology-specific byelaws, but signage on the trains. If
there wasn't a generic thing in the byelaws saying people should obey
signage, I'd be very surprised.
Then please surprise me by citing the byelaw and then the relevant sign.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
Meanwhile tossing a bike looks likely to amount to criminal damage;
Nonsense. Moving a bike from where it's not allowed to be would never
fly in court as a cause of action for criminal damage.
Your words were "unceremoniously ejected". If you are now proposing
something more careful please tell us to where you would move the bikes
on a busy train.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
and then there's assault if you seek to overcome attempts by people to
stop you.
I'm not assaulting their bike, they are assaulting me.
Not if all they are doing is stopping you from interfering with their
property.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
Remember that self-defence extends to defence of property.
Rubbish. The courts aren't full of cases of people who have been
acquitted of assault because they were violently preventing their
illegally parked car being towed away.
You need to establish first that they are doing anything criminal. Bear
in mind the Pauley case[1] where the Supreme Court decided bus drivers
couldn't force buggy users to move them.

You can argue the tube driver should act - e.g. hold the train until
cyclists make space for a wheelchair user. But I don't see how you can
manufacture from that a criminal offence that justifies you donning
mask, cape and exterior pants.

[1] https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0025.html
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roland Perry
2024-01-01 08:45:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
TfL conditions of carriage (10.1.3) give wheelchair users priority
over designated spaces on buses but AFAICS have nothing similar for
Underground, DLR, London Overground and Elizabeth line.  And nothing
in the byelaws.
It's not just technology-specific byelaws, but signage on the
trains. If there wasn't a generic thing in the byelaws saying people
should obey signage, I'd be very surprised.
Then please surprise me by citing the byelaw and then the relevant sign.
14.2 no person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other
conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway: in any
manner or place where it may cause an obstruction or hindrance to an
operator or any person using the railway or otherwise than in accordance
with any instructions issued by or on behalf of an operator or an
authorised person

Many (most?) TOCs also have their own local published cycle conditions
of carriage.

Signage in the designated accommodation is commonplace on the trains.
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
Meanwhile tossing a bike looks likely to amount to criminal damage;
Nonsense. Moving a bike from where it's not allowed to be would
never fly in court as a cause of action for criminal damage.
Your words were "unceremoniously ejected".
The ceremony in question would called the staff/BTP, rather than acting
oneself.
Post by Robin
If you are now proposing something more careful please tell us to where
you would move the bikes on a busy train.
It'll depend on the layout of the specific train.
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
and then there's assault if you seek to overcome attempts by people
to stop you.
There's no assault if they desist from intervening.
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
I'm not assaulting their bike, they are assaulting me.
Not if all they are doing is stopping you from interfering with their
property.
I disagree.
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
Remember that self-defence extends to defence of property.
Rubbish. The courts aren't full of cases of people who have been
acquitted of assault because they were violently preventing their
illegally parked car being towed away.
You need to establish first that they are doing anything criminal.
See the byelaws.
Post by Robin
Bear in mind the Pauley case[1] where the Supreme Court decided bus
drivers couldn't force buggy users to move them.
You can argue the tube driver should act - e.g. hold the train until
cyclists make space for a wheelchair user. But I don't see how you can
manufacture from that a criminal offence that justifies you donning
mask, cape and exterior pants.
Now you are just being silly.
Post by Robin
[1] https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2015-0025.html
"FirstGroup operated a provision criterion or practice (PCP) consisting
of a 'policy of ... ‘first come first served’"

So different to trains. And the case wasn't even about *cycles*,
assault, or interference with property, but DDA. Including the original
deficient policy, but also the reluctance of the driver to take any
action (other than tell the disabled person they were SOL).
--
Roland Perry
Marland
2023-12-21 10:39:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an age related
condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles (
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your age is
often the first sign of
of an age related problem . It is frequently stimulated by external
pressures and having to become a carer to someone like a spouse is a good
example.
Dementia denial is also common for understandable reasons such as fear of
the future.
<https://www.dementiauk.org/wp-content/uploads/dementia-uk-understanding-denial-and-lack-of-insight.pdf>

GH
Roland Perry
2023-12-21 12:27:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an age related
condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
--
Roland Perry
Marland
2023-12-21 14:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an age related
condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
If that continues you won’t really be able to remove the bike(s) even if
you wish to,
all the keeper of the bike has to do is hold it in place while you huff and
puff.
They won’t need to assault you , what you are going to say in the call to
the control room ?
“. A cyclist won’t let go of a their bike on a train and I want to move
it, please send a Policeman .You know who I am.”

Control operative to another “ we’ve got that old Git Perry on the Phone ,
wants help to move a bike on a train down London way”. Other operative
“Righto , I’ll ask the Met to break off investigating gang crime and
shoplifting right away and send a couple of bobbies along to meet it and
tell the cyclist off for holding on to his own property.

GH
Roland Perry
2024-01-01 09:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an
age related condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
If that continues you won’t really be able to remove the bike(s) even
if you wish to, all the keeper of the bike has to do is hold it in
place while you huff and puff.
They can do that...
Post by Marland
They won’t need to assault you , what you are going to say in the call to
the control room ?
...so the call would be to ask for the BTP to be summoned to probably
the next station.
Post by Marland
A cyclist won’t let go of a their bike on a train and I want to move
it, please send a Policeman
Ah, you did know.
Post by Marland
Control operative to another “ we’ve got that old Git Perry on the Phone ,
wants help to move a bike on a train down London way”. Other operative
“Righto , I’ll ask the Met
Bzzt. BTP.
Post by Marland
to break off investigating gang crime and shoplifting right away
Now you are just being silly. (Apart from getting the police force
wrong). The police have different departments for different things.
Post by Marland
and send a couple of bobbies along to meet it and
tell the cyclist off for holding on to his own property.
For infringing the byelaws. Very likely anti-social behaviour too. The
latter is precisely why[1] I have the contacts with the control room.

It's up to them to decide if they wish to act, but they can't stop me
making the call.

[1] And instructions to encourage members of the public to call 101,
not to get a squad car round, but to log the extent and nature of
incidents.
--
Roland Perry
Marland
2024-01-01 21:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an
age related condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
If that continues you won’t really be able to remove the bike(s) even
if you wish to, all the keeper of the bike has to do is hold it in
place while you huff and puff.
They can do that...
Post by Marland
They won’t need to assault you , what you are going to say in the call to
the control room ?
...so the call would be to ask for the BTP to be summoned to probably
the next station.
Post by Marland
A cyclist won’t let go of a their bike on a train and I want to move
it, please send a Policeman
Ah, you did know.
Post by Marland
Control operative to another “ we’ve got that old Git Perry on the Phone ,
wants help to move a bike on a train down London way”. Other operative
“Righto , I’ll ask the Met
Bzzt. BTP.
Post by Marland
to break off investigating gang crime and shoplifting right away
Now you are just being silly. (Apart from getting the police force
wrong). The police have different departments for different things.
Post by Marland
and send a couple of bobbies along to meet it and
tell the cyclist off for holding on to his own property.
For infringing the byelaws. Very likely anti-social behaviour too. The
latter is precisely why[1] I have the contacts with the control room.
It's up to them to decide if they wish to act, but they can't stop me
making the call.
[1] And instructions to encourage members of the public to call 101,
not to get a squad car round, but to log the extent and nature of
incidents.
Christ on a bike, another post from you on a topic from weeks ago that most
will have lost interest in.
as for the nitpicking about the which Police force most on here would
realise that my scenario was example rather than exact and Met flowed
better. You may as well have pulled me up on the use of Policeman instead
of Police officer in case the one attending turned up with tits instead of
a truncheon.

You really must be bored and in these times of Police forces being
stretched thinking you can pull strings somewhat delusional ,another
symptom of getting older.
As for calling 101 many passengers will have reached their stop by the time
t gets answered.

GH
Recliner
2024-01-01 21:40:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an
age related condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
If that continues you won’t really be able to remove the bike(s) even
if you wish to, all the keeper of the bike has to do is hold it in
place while you huff and puff.
They can do that...
Post by Marland
They won’t need to assault you , what you are going to say in the call to
the control room ?
...so the call would be to ask for the BTP to be summoned to probably
the next station.
Post by Marland
A cyclist won’t let go of a their bike on a train and I want to move
it, please send a Policeman
Ah, you did know.
Post by Marland
Control operative to another “ we’ve got that old Git Perry on the Phone ,
wants help to move a bike on a train down London way”. Other operative
“Righto , I’ll ask the Met
Bzzt. BTP.
Post by Marland
to break off investigating gang crime and shoplifting right away
Now you are just being silly. (Apart from getting the police force
wrong). The police have different departments for different things.
Post by Marland
and send a couple of bobbies along to meet it and
tell the cyclist off for holding on to his own property.
For infringing the byelaws. Very likely anti-social behaviour too. The
latter is precisely why[1] I have the contacts with the control room.
It's up to them to decide if they wish to act, but they can't stop me
making the call.
[1] And instructions to encourage members of the public to call 101,
not to get a squad car round, but to log the extent and nature of
incidents.
Christ on a bike, another post from you on a topic from weeks ago that most
will have lost interest in.
Yes, when Roland responds to a long-forgotten post weeks or months later,
one assumes he's found something important that needs to be added to a
closed discussion, but he adds nothing but his usual content-free
nitpicking. I think this is a new eccentricity from Roland, who's not
ageing well, descending from apparently being one of the most influential
people in the British computer industry four decades ago to a redundant
part-time jobsworth security guard now.
Roland Perry
2024-01-08 16:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an
age related condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
If that continues you won’t really be able to remove the bike(s) even
if you wish to, all the keeper of the bike has to do is hold it in
place while you huff and puff.
They can do that...
Post by Marland
They won’t need to assault you , what you are going to say in the call to
the control room ?
...so the call would be to ask for the BTP to be summoned to probably
the next station.
Post by Marland
A cyclist won’t let go of a their bike on a train and I want to move
it, please send a Policeman
Ah, you did know.
Post by Marland
Control operative to another “ we’ve got that old Git Perry on the Phone ,
wants help to move a bike on a train down London way”. Other operative
“Righto , I’ll ask the Met
Bzzt. BTP.
Post by Marland
to break off investigating gang crime and shoplifting right away
Now you are just being silly. (Apart from getting the police force
wrong). The police have different departments for different things.
Post by Marland
and send a couple of bobbies along to meet it and
tell the cyclist off for holding on to his own property.
For infringing the byelaws. Very likely anti-social behaviour too. The
latter is precisely why[1] I have the contacts with the control room.
It's up to them to decide if they wish to act, but they can't stop me
making the call.
[1] And instructions to encourage members of the public to call 101,
not to get a squad car round, but to log the extent and nature of
incidents.
Christ on a bike, another post from you on a topic from weeks ago that most
will have lost interest in.
Yes, when Roland responds to a long-forgotten post weeks or months later,
one assumes he's found something important that needs to be added to a
closed discussion, but he adds nothing but his usual content-free
nitpicking.
<yawn>
Post by Recliner
I think this is a new eccentricity from Roland, who's not ageing well,
descending from apparently being one of the most influential people in
the British computer industry four decades ago
Why do you keep insisting it stopped four decades ago? Lack of research
I presume.

And that kind of abusive response is exactly why I'll be finding out who
you are, and why you continue in your organised campaign of harassment.
Which, by the way, is against the law.
Post by Recliner
to a redundant part-time jobsworth security guard now.
It's a multi-faceted part time job I retired from, and not remotely like
a "security guard". Even if one of the facets was understanding the way
the authorities can be triggered to respond to anti-social behaviour,
including actually triggering them when necessary.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2024-01-08 16:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
OTOH there seems to be something wrong about the style of that post.
Almost as if someone else has posted in Rolands name, but there again
a couple of his posts don’t seem to flow like they did.
I'm getting less tolerant, that's for sure.
Post by Marland
Pressure of looking after his wife perhaps or early signs of an
age related condition setting in.
Oh dear, that started off not too bad, but the only age-related
condition I have is weakening muscles
You hope, intolerance and increased aggressiveness from someone your
age is often the first sign of of an age related problem .
Yes, the muscle weakness.
If that continues you won’t really be able to remove the bike(s) even
if you wish to, all the keeper of the bike has to do is hold it in
place while you huff and puff.
They can do that...
Post by Marland
They won’t need to assault you , what you are going to say in the call to
the control room ?
...so the call would be to ask for the BTP to be summoned to probably
the next station.
Post by Marland
A cyclist won’t let go of a their bike on a train and I want to move
it, please send a Policeman
Ah, you did know.
Post by Marland
Control operative to another “ we’ve got that old Git Perry on
the Phone , wants help to move a bike on a train down London way”.
Other operative “Righto , I’ll ask the Met
Bzzt. BTP.
Post by Marland
to break off investigating gang crime and shoplifting right away
Now you are just being silly. (Apart from getting the police force
wrong). The police have different departments for different things.
Post by Marland
and send a couple of bobbies along to meet it and
tell the cyclist off for holding on to his own property.
For infringing the byelaws. Very likely anti-social behaviour too. The
latter is precisely why[1] I have the contacts with the control room.
It's up to them to decide if they wish to act, but they can't stop me
making the call.
[1] And instructions to encourage members of the public to call 101,
not to get a squad car round, but to log the extent and nature of
incidents.
Christ on a bike, another post from you on a topic from weeks ago that most
will have lost interest in.
I don't have the hours in the day to treat Usenet as a chatline. Get
over it.
Post by Marland
as for the nitpicking about the which Police force most on here would
realise that my scenario was example rather than exact and Met flowed
better.
I'd have thought almost everyone here realised the railways were policed
by Transport Police, not the local geographical force.
Post by Marland
You may as well have pulled me up on the use of Policeman instead
of Police officer in case the one attending turned up with tits instead of
a truncheon.
That's a completely different category debate. Although as it happens I
have very very rarely seen female BTP, maybe they don't need the
sink-job, or aren't quite as delighted at having to deal largely with
drunken football "fans".
Post by Marland
You really must be bored and in these times of Police forces being
stretched thinking you can pull strings somewhat delusional ,another
symptom of getting older.
No, the delusion is yours, in that you fail to understand what strings I
have developed in my various day-jobs.
Post by Marland
As for calling 101 many passengers will have reached their stop by the time
t gets answered.
I never suggested rail passengers should call 101, you've imagined that.
And as for the delay in response when calling BTP on 61016, that's
precisely why I would consider pulling one of those strings.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-21 09:38:05 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Dec 2023 20:21:44 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
Thats all well and good, but reactive policing still means that someone has
to get hurt first and that unfortunately might be you. Sometimes its best
just to let it go even if you're in the right.
Roland Perry
2023-12-21 12:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 20 Dec 2023 20:21:44 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Marland
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
Good luck with that. After six months of being "wheelchair hubby", I
take absolutely no prisoners, and refuseniks like that will find their
apparatus unceremoniously ejected.
I'd be careful. Some of these guys (and the occasional woman) have a
stratospheric level of entitlement and a few also seem to think cyling makes
them mike tyson. I've exchanged words with quite a few riding fast on the
pavement or through red lights when I was trying to cross. Luckily I'm a
fairly big guy so they just resort to the finger or abuse before pedalling
off but I reckon a few of them would have started trouble with someone
smaller.
They need to be careful, because I've got the local police control room
on speed-dial on my phone, am on good terms with the staff there, and if
they lay a finger on me they *will* end up in jail.
Thats all well and good, but reactive policing still means that someone has
to get hurt first and that unfortunately might be you. Sometimes its best
just to let it go even if you're in the right.
I'm afraid I've tired of "letting it go" if that means letting people
ignore signage on public transport saying that a particular space is for
priority passengers, and in any case should only otherwise have two
bikes in it not four.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2023-12-19 09:31:29 UTC
Permalink
On 18 Dec 2023 18:07:10 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:22:25 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Sorry I assumed they were the same as the Met stock.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1992_Stock#/media/File:Wheelc
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
hair_area_-_CLIP_first_run_2023-11-24_-_74.jpg>
I wonder if the decision not to have tip ups was from LU or the refurbisher
(I assume its Alsthom)? Seems rather odd given going by the number of
wheelchairs I've seen on the deep level tube in recent years - 3 or 4 - the
priority spaces will almost never be used.
On the open sections where they are permitted to be on board cyclists will
occupy them ,some will not move for other users the spaces are aimed at.
And will position their filthy greasy bikes so anyone walking past gets a
nice smear of crap on their clothes.
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