Discussion:
Masking the Elizabeth Line's ghosts
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2024-01-14 09:37:30 UTC
Permalink
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
Andy Burns
2024-01-15 15:51:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-01-15 16:47:47 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Graeme Wall
2024-01-15 17:48:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Cite?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-01-16 09:16:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 17:48:16 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Cite?
You want me cite that he *doesn't* talk about it? Ie prove a negative?
Any suggestions as to how would be welcome.
Graeme Wall
2024-01-16 10:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 17:48:16 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Cite?
You want me cite that he *doesn't* talk about it? Ie prove a negative?
Any suggestions as to how would be welcome.
Well dodged, cite your claim that the tube has more particulates than a
street full of buses.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2024-01-16 10:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 17:48:16 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Cite?
You want me cite that he *doesn't* talk about it? Ie prove a
negative?
Any suggestions as to how would be welcome.
Well dodged, cite your claim that the tube has more particulates than a
street full of buses.
Different stretches of the tube will have different particulate
pollution (the same as different streets do).

It should be fairly simple to find cites for the worst of either (it
makes good clickbait, after all), then compare the numbers.

Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2024-01-16 10:48:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 17:48:16 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people will
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Cite?
You want me cite that he *doesn't* talk about it? Ie prove a
negative?
Any suggestions as to how would be welcome.
Well dodged, cite your claim that the tube has more particulates than a
street full of buses.
Different stretches of the tube will have different particulate
pollution (the same as different streets do).
Yes, it varies a lot by line. In general, the deep level Tubes are much
more polluted than the SSL, but there's variations between the deep Tube
lines, too.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/21/phone-monitor-helps-london-tube-passengers-avoid-polluted-routes
Post by Roland Perry
It should be fairly simple to find cites for the worst of either (it
makes good clickbait, after all), then compare the numbers.
Particulates (mainly ferrous oxides) are much higher in Tube tunnels than
the streets, but other pollutants (nitrogen oxides, rubber particles) are
higher on the streets.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/london-underground-pollution
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
issues. But street level pollution is present 24x7, and unavoidable, even
for people who never get in a vehicle. So much lower levels are significant
to more people.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-01-16 15:58:02 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:48:22 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
Sorry? Its quite possible to spend an hour or more in the deep level tunnels.
Probably longer than most people spend walking along a polluted street.
Recliner
2024-01-16 16:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:48:22 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
Sorry? Its quite possible to spend an hour or more in the deep level tunnels.
Generally not. Journeys can be over an hour, but the time spent in the deep
tunnels is usually much shorter.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Probably longer than most people spend walking along a polluted street.
Do you think street pollution is fenced in?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-01-16 16:58:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:38:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:48:22 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
Sorry? Its quite possible to spend an hour or more in the deep level tunnels.
Generally not. Journeys can be over an hour, but the time spent in the deep
tunnels is usually much shorter.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Probably longer than most people spend walking along a polluted street.
Do you think street pollution is fenced in?
No, but it disperses obviously and becomes less concentrated the further away
you get from the road.
Recliner
2024-01-16 17:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:38:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:48:22 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
Sorry? Its quite possible to spend an hour or more in the deep level tunnels.
Generally not. Journeys can be over an hour, but the time spent in the deep
tunnels is usually much shorter.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Probably longer than most people spend walking along a polluted street.
Do you think street pollution is fenced in?
No, but it disperses obviously and becomes less concentrated the further away
you get from the road.
It pervades all of central London.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-01-16 17:15:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 17:12:18 GMT
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:38:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:48:22 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
Sorry? Its quite possible to spend an hour or more in the deep level
tunnels.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Generally not. Journeys can be over an hour, but the time spent in the deep
tunnels is usually much shorter.
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Probably longer than most people spend walking along a polluted street.
Do you think street pollution is fenced in?
No, but it disperses obviously and becomes less concentrated the further away
you get from the road.
It pervades all of central London.
So Oxford Street being the most polluted street in Britain was a lie then
because using your logic all london streets would be equally polluted?
Graeme Wall
2024-01-16 22:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:48:22 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Although statisticians might find it more satisfactory to quote averages
for both - possibly weighted by the number of people affected at each
location.
I think the issue is that even commuters spend little time in deep Tube
tunnels, and it's possible to avoid them altogether for those with health
Sorry? Its quite possible to spend an hour or more in the deep level tunnels.
Probably longer than most people spend walking along a polluted street.
Most people would have boarded a train long before.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-01-16 10:40:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:00:05 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 17:48:16 +0000
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:51:15 +0000
Post by Andy Burns
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:08:57 +0000
Post by Recliner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67959169
"No sweat" as they say.
Groan.
Actualy I reckon the paint or whatever it is is still slightly sticky and
the marks are probably fibres from clothing (since I doubt many people
will
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Andy Burns
be sitting there with their tops off).
Just the general grime of London? I was always disgusted at the black
snot you'd get after spending a day there with a few underground
journeys ...
Something ickle Sadiq never talks about despite all his virtue signalling
about air quality, ULEZ etc , is that the air in the tube is far more dirty
from a particulate POV than the busiest street full of buses.
Cite?
You want me cite that he *doesn't* talk about it? Ie prove a negative?
Any suggestions as to how would be welcome.
Well dodged, cite your claim that the tube has more particulates than a
street full of buses.
You really should aquaint yourself with this fantastic tool called Google.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/air-pollution-london-underground
-tube-worse-than-above-ground-a8721586.html
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