Discussion:
New DLR trains nine months late, £61m over-budget
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2024-06-21 10:04:47 UTC
Permalink
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/new-trains-dlr-over-budget-delayed-tfl-london-b1165927.html

THE £880 million introduction of new air-conditioned trains on the
Docklands Light Railway has been delayed and is running £61 million over
budget.

Transport for London had hoped to start introducing the walk-through trains
by April, increasing capacity and frequency on the network that carries
99 million passengers a year across south and east London.

But the arrival of the first new train into passenger service has been
pushed back until “later this year”, meaning it could be six to nine months
late.

The delay has been caused by difficulties integrating the braking system on
the driverless trains with the track signalling system — while enabling the
existing DLR trains to keep running.

A new train slid beyond a stopping point during testing. A number of the
new trains, which are painted teal, have been seen for months undergoing
testing without passengers on board.

TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: “Bringing any new fleet of trains in is
always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure and the
existing fleet.” The delay means that the DLR’s existing fleet, some of
which is 30 years old, is having to remain in service for longer than
expected. Some trains only have two rather than three carriages as a
result.

However, TfL chiefs insist all of the 54 new trains, which are being built
by CAF in Spain and will have five carriages, will be running by the end of
“summer 2026”. Eleven of the new trains have been funded by the Government.

Stuart Harvey, TfL’s chief capital officer, said: “The delivery of the new
trains is going well. The manufacturers are ahead of programme. We have
encountered an issue with the way the signalling system on the train and
the braking system is working. We now fully understand it. It is complex.
Importantly, we remain on track to get all the trains into service by
summer 2026.”

The new trains also feature improved accessibility, USB chargers and
real-time travel information. A total of 30 new trains are in various
stages of testing. The first arrived in January last year.

TfL has also faced difficulties constructing new sidings at Beckton depot,
due to a contractor entering administration, and is having to upgrade the
DLR’s power supply.

The upgrade will replace the 33 oldest trains of the existing red and blue
fleet and increase capacity by 60 per cent. Peak-hour services to Canary
Wharf and City Airport are often overcrowded.

Arran Rusling, TfL’s head of programme for DLR rolling stock replacement,
said: “We encountered some complex challenges, which means we will
introduce the new trains into passenger service later this year.”
Roland Perry
2024-06-22 14:41:18 UTC
Permalink
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2024-06-22 16:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.

I'm just waiting for the cracking crisis in a couple of years…
Roland Perry
2024-06-23 08:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.

In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station? I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
--
Roland Perry
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-06-23 09:12:02 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:19:15 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station? I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
Thats nothing new. Try changing from the Jubilee to northern or bakerloo
at waterloo, or the jubilee to victoria/picc at green park - both long walks.
Or the daft layout at whitechapel where from the ELL platforms you have to walk
up to the liz line escalators which then take you down again.

Tube stations are laid out for the convenience of the builders, not the
passengers.
Recliner
2024-06-23 14:32:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:19:15 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station? I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
Thats nothing new. Try changing from the Jubilee to northern or bakerloo
at waterloo, or the jubilee to victoria/picc at green park - both long walks.
The latter is easy, and not a long walk.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-06-23 16:09:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:32:40 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:19:15 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station? I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
Thats nothing new. Try changing from the Jubilee to northern or bakerloo
at waterloo, or the jubilee to victoria/picc at green park - both long walks.
The latter is easy, and not a long walk.
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all around
the houses.
Recliner
2024-06-23 16:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:32:40 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:19:15 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station? I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
Thats nothing new. Try changing from the Jubilee to northern or bakerloo
at waterloo, or the jubilee to victoria/picc at green park - both long walks.
The latter is easy, and not a long walk.
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all around
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.

Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-06-24 07:43:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:48:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all around
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.
Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
Yes, I was thinking of the vic-picc.
Recliner
2024-06-24 12:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:48:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all around
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.
Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
Yes, I was thinking of the vic-picc.
Isn't this a repeat of a recent conversation on the exact same subject?
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-06-24 14:10:44 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 13:22:33 +0100
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:48:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all
around
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.
Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
Yes, I was thinking of the vic-picc.
Isn't this a repeat of a recent conversation on the exact same subject?
ITYF on a group about transport in london the same example may get mentioned
more than once.
Recliner
2024-06-24 15:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 13:22:33 +0100
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:48:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all
around
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.
Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
Yes, I was thinking of the vic-picc.
Isn't this a repeat of a recent conversation on the exact same subject?
ITYF on a group about transport in london the same example may get mentioned
more than once.
It was you making the same incorrect assertion, which I duly corrected. No
doubt you'll soon forget, and re-post the same incorrect assertion again in
a few months;
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-06-24 15:36:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 15:32:53 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 13:22:33 +0100
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:48:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all
around
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.
Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
Yes, I was thinking of the vic-picc.
Isn't this a repeat of a recent conversation on the exact same subject?
ITYF on a group about transport in london the same example may get mentioned
more than once.
It was you making the same incorrect assertion, which I duly corrected. No
doubt you'll soon forget, and re-post the same incorrect assertion again in
a few months;
So you're saying there isn't a long walk on the official route between lines at
green park?
Recliner
2024-06-24 15:48:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 15:32:53 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 13:22:33 +0100
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:48:58 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Only if you know the unmarked route. The official route takes you all
around
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
the houses.
There's only one Jubilee-Victoria route and it's short and easy.
Anyone who uses the station soon discovers the short route to/from the
Piccadilly platforms.
Yes, I was thinking of the vic-picc.
Isn't this a repeat of a recent conversation on the exact same subject?
ITYF on a group about transport in london the same example may get mentioned
more than once.
It was you making the same incorrect assertion, which I duly corrected. No
doubt you'll soon forget, and re-post the same incorrect assertion again in
a few months;
So you're saying there isn't a long walk on the official route between lines at
green park?
No, that's exactly what I did NOT say. I said that the walks were all
short and easy if you knew the station, which a regular Piccadilly line
user like you should do. Also, the walk between the Vic and Jubilee is
short and easy, even by the official route.
M***@dastardlyhq.com
2024-06-24 15:57:11 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 15:48:49 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So you're saying there isn't a long walk on the official route between lines
at
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
green park?
No, that's exactly what I did NOT say. I said that the walks were all
short and easy if you knew the station, which a regular Piccadilly line
Thats why I said official. We established previously that the official LU
route between the vic and picc is a hike but there's an unmarked shorter
route.

And I might use the line once a week or so, it doesn't mean I visit green
park regularly. Only been there twice this year so far.
Recliner
2024-06-24 16:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Mon, 24 Jun 2024 15:48:49 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
So you're saying there isn't a long walk on the official route between lines
at
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
green park?
No, that's exactly what I did NOT say. I said that the walks were all
short and easy if you knew the station, which a regular Piccadilly line
Thats why I said official. We established previously that the official LU
route between the vic and picc is a hike but there's an unmarked shorter
route.
And I might use the line once a week or so, it doesn't mean I visit green
park regularly. Only been there twice this year so far.
Of course, there's quite a few stations where, to keep the crowds of
arriving and departing passengers segregated for crowd control reasons, the
signs direct one of the flows via a longer route through the station
passages. But once you know the station, you're free to take the shorter
route. This is particularly so with the Liz.
Roland Perry
2024-06-24 10:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station? I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
Thats nothing new. Try changing from the Jubilee to northern or bakerloo
at waterloo, or the jubilee to victoria/picc at green park - both long walks.
There are particular local reasons for those two. Which once seemed
long, but today are relatively short.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2024-06-23 11:05:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
This isn't the first time the DLR has brought in a new fleet, so they know
from previous experience how long it usually takes. And the problem here
isn't late delivery. But there's something very odd about the new fleet
apparently not being able to brake at the same rate as the existing stock.
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station?
I think it was a series of different problems, compounded by Covid. It
didn't help that the original top management were in denial about the
mounting problems.
Post by Roland Perry
I changed trains there from Central to Elizabeth Line a few
days ago and the two sets of platforms are a very long walk away from
each other.
The widely separated Liz tracks run roughly parallel to, but about 50-100m
south of, the Central line. That allowed it and its cavernous stations to
be built without major disruption to the existing Tube.
Roland Perry
2024-06-24 10:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
This isn't the first time the DLR has brought in a new fleet, so they know
from previous experience how long it usually takes. And the problem here
isn't late delivery. But there's something very odd about the new fleet
apparently not being able to brake at the same rate as the existing stock.
You should learn from all new fleets, not just ones under your nose.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station?
I think it was a series of different problems, compounded by Covid. It
didn't help that the original top management were in denial about the
mounting problems.
Competent middle management should be able to get the message through to
top management.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2024-06-24 10:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
This isn't the first time the DLR has brought in a new fleet, so they know
from previous experience how long it usually takes. And the problem here
isn't late delivery. But there's something very odd about the new fleet
apparently not being able to brake at the same rate as the existing stock.
You should learn from all new fleets, not just ones under your nose.
Ah, if only TfL had your extensive experience of purchasing new train
fleets!
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station?
I think it was a series of different problems, compounded by Covid. It
didn't help that the original top management were in denial about the
mounting problems.
Competent middle management should be able to get the message through to
top management.
You obviously have no experience of being a senior manager in large
organisations.
Roland Perry
2024-06-24 19:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
This isn't the first time the DLR has brought in a new fleet, so they know
from previous experience how long it usually takes. And the problem here
isn't late delivery. But there's something very odd about the new fleet
apparently not being able to brake at the same rate as the existing stock.
You should learn from all new fleets, not just ones under your nose.
Ah, if only TfL had your extensive experience of purchasing new train
fleets!
It's nothing to do with whether it's a train fleet, a plane, a station,
or any other project that requires planning.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station?
I think it was a series of different problems, compounded by Covid. It
didn't help that the original top management were in denial about the
mounting problems.
Competent middle management should be able to get the message through to
top management.
You obviously have no experience of being a senior manager in large
organisations.
Thanks for yet another toxic posting. Of course I have that experience.
And that's why I know what relationships are necessary to get things
done "on time".
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2024-06-25 12:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
This isn't the first time the DLR has brought in a new fleet, so they know
from previous experience how long it usually takes. And the problem here
isn't late delivery. But there's something very odd about the new fleet
apparently not being able to brake at the same rate as the existing stock.
You should learn from all new fleets, not just ones under your nose.
Ah, if only TfL had your extensive experience of purchasing new train
fleets!
It's nothing to do with whether it's a train fleet, a plane, a station,
or any other project that requires planning.
You think they didn't plan for the introduction? They allowed for many months of testing, as well as the time to extend
the depot for the larger fleet.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station?
I think it was a series of different problems, compounded by Covid. It
didn't help that the original top management were in denial about the
mounting problems.
Competent middle management should be able to get the message through to
top management.
You obviously have no experience of being a senior manager in large
organisations.
Thanks for yet another toxic posting. Of course I have that experience.
And that's why I know what relationships are necessary to get things
done "on time".
You have the theoretical textbook knowledge of a one-time one-man-band consultant. You've obviously never actually been
a senior manager in a large organisation.
Roland Perry
2024-06-25 13:49:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
TfL commissioner Andy Lord said: "Bringing any new fleet of trains in
is always complex, and integrating it with the existing infrastructure
and the existing fleet."
That's why you learn from previous experience of managing similar
projects and put a realistic timescale on it to begin with.
One assumes they thought they did have a realistic plan, but this braking
issue sounds unexpected.
It's about building in prudent contingency. You don't necessarily know
exactly *what* will go wrong, but something is bound to.
This isn't the first time the DLR has brought in a new fleet, so they know
from previous experience how long it usually takes. And the problem here
isn't late delivery. But there's something very odd about the new fleet
apparently not being able to brake at the same rate as the existing stock.
You should learn from all new fleets, not just ones under your nose.
Ah, if only TfL had your extensive experience of purchasing new train
fleets!
It's nothing to do with whether it's a train fleet, a plane, a station,
or any other project that requires planning.
You think they didn't plan for the introduction? They allowed for many
months of testing, as well as the time to extend
the depot for the larger fleet.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In other news, did they ever say what went so wrong with Bond St
station?
I think it was a series of different problems, compounded by Covid. It
didn't help that the original top management were in denial about the
mounting problems.
Competent middle management should be able to get the message through to
top management.
You obviously have no experience of being a senior manager in large
organisations.
Thanks for yet another toxic posting. Of course I have that experience.
And that's why I know what relationships are necessary to get things
done "on time".
You have the theoretical textbook knowledge of a one-time one-man-band
consultant. You've obviously never actually been a senior manager in a
large organisation.
Lies upon lies upon lies. Or are you just extremely poorly informed?
Either would be equally bad given the libellous accusations you make.
--
Roland Perry
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