New Freedom pass peak hour restriction

[Recliner]

I've now received official notification from TfL of the new rule:

From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.

Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings. This is to enable social
distancing on the public transport network and help control the spread
of coronavirus. Your card will continue to be valid at all other times
on weekdays and all day on weekends and Bank Holidays. Disabled
Freedom Pass holders are not affected by these changes and can
continue to use their card at all times.

Where possible, we ask you to avoid travelling immediately after 09:00
to help reduce crowding in buses and trains, where the available space
has effectively been reduced to allow for social distancing. If you
have no option other than to use public transport during the morning
peak period, we recommend that you travel using pay as you go with a
contactless card or device or an Oyster card. For more information,
please visit www.tfl.gov.uk/fares.

We thank you again for all your help as we work together to keep
everyone safe.

[tim...]

Post by Recliner
From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings.

I didn't realise that National card holders could travel before 9:30 anyway

All in all, not a restriction I will notice (unless I have to make a trip to
the airport)

[Recliner]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings.

I didn't realise that National card holders could travel before 9:30 anyway

I think they get exactly the same free use of London buses as Londoners do
(except, of course, that the Croydon Tram has bus fares, but isn't included
for national bus pass holders).

Post by tim...
All in all, not a restriction I will notice (unless I have to make a trip to
the airport)

Yes, pretty much the same here.

[Charles Ellson]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 16:25:56 -0000 (UTC), Recliner

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings.

I didn't realise that National card holders could travel before 9:30 anyway

I think they get exactly the same free use of London buses as Londoners do
(except, of course, that the Croydon Tram has bus fares, but isn't included
for national bus pass holders).

It is reciprocal, the FP holder gets whatever applies to the locals
holding an ENCTS card so if e.g. someone from Greater London visits
Merseyside then they can also (relative to the above) use the bus up
to 06.30.

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...
All in all, not a restriction I will notice (unless I have to make a trip to
the airport)

Yes, pretty much the same here.

[Ross Kavanagh]

Post by Charles Ellson
It is reciprocal, the FP holder gets whatever applies to the locals
holding an ENCTS card so if e.g. someone from Greater London visits
Merseyside then they can also (relative to the above) use the bus up
to 06.30.

But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after
11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also applies to
any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

[tim...]

Post by Ross Kavanagh

Post by Charles Ellson
It is reciprocal, the FP holder gets whatever applies to the locals
holding an ENCTS card so if e.g. someone from Greater London visits
Merseyside then they can also (relative to the above) use the bus up
to 06.30.

But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after
11pm, although the locals can.

yup

TfL are too generous to National Card holders ;-)

tim

[Bevan Price]

Post by Ross Kavanagh

Post by Charles Ellson
It is reciprocal, the FP holder gets whatever applies to the locals
holding an ENCTS card so if e.g. someone from Greater London visits
Merseyside then they can also (relative to the above) use the bus up
to 06.30.

But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after
11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also applies to
any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

The Senior ENCTS passes conditions are that they are valid on buses
(only) Monday to Friday 09:30 to 23:00, all day at weekends or on Bank
Holidays.

But within their own areas, some authorities (e.g. Greater Manchester,
Merseytravel, West Yorkshire Metro) can extend the validity hours of
their local passes , e.g. to Midnight (or "end of service")

The authorities can (if they wish) provide funds to make passes valid on
trains, trams, etc., but they are free to charge users for such
additional provisions.

In West Yorkshire Metro area, holders of ENCTS Senior passes do not get
free rail travel, but are allowed to purchase half-price rail tickets
for use outside peak hours (for travel within the local area only. )

The South Yorkshire area holders do not get the bus extension to
midnight, but like West Yorkshire, they can get half price off-peak
local rail travel. Bus passes can also be used on trams.

Numerous counties choose not to fund use of senior passes for rail
travel.

[Clive Page]

But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after 11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also applies to any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is not valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's Saturday with no time restrictions).

[Certes]

Post by Clive Page

Post by Ross Kavanagh
But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after
11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also applies
to any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is not
valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's Saturday
with no time restrictions).

...whilst presumably you have to be home by midnight on a Sunday? I
wonder whether the "day" used by the checking driver or machine really
changes at 24:00 or at end of service/transition to night buses.

[Clive Page]

Post by Clive Page
It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is not valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's Saturday with no time restrictions).

...whilst presumably you have to be home by midnight on a Sunday?  I
wonder whether the "day" used by the checking driver or machine really
changes at 24:00 or at end of service/transition to night buses.

Some time ago I got on a bus at around 23:15 on a Friday night (I was delayed on another route) and half expected to have to pay, and indeed my bus pass didn't work the machine, but the driver said something to the effect of "don't worry about it" and waved me through. There are so few local buses (outside London) that run after midnight that I haven't been able to check whether it would have worked after midnight. But it certainly works quite early on Saturday mornings.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by Clive Page

Post by Clive Page
It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is not valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's Saturday with no time restrictions).

...whilst presumably you have to be home by midnight on a Sunday?  I
wonder whether the "day" used by the checking driver or machine really
changes at 24:00 or at end of service/transition to night buses.

Some time ago I got on a bus at around 23:15 on a Friday night (I was delayed on another route) and half expected to have to pay, and indeed my bus pass didn't work the machine, but the driver said something to the effect of "don't worry about it" and waved me through. There are so few local buses (outside London) that run after midnight that I haven't been able to check whether it would have worked after midnight. But it certainly works quite early on Saturday mornings.

With London Buses that can be a standard scenario if the driver's
terminal has packed up. The bus still completes its journey,
presumably picking up another machine when it passes an appropriate
garage/office.

[tim...]

Post by Clive Page

Post by Ross Kavanagh
But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after
11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also applies to
any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is not
valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's Saturday
with no time restrictions).

I suspect that the "all day" rule is just intended to remove the morning
restriction

it's not mean to remove the 11pm restriction

In many areas that point is moot as there are no busses at that time, and
those that are available are more heavily subsidised, hence the "oldies have
to pay" rule

tim

[Roland Perry]

Post by tim...

Post by Clive Page

Post by Ross Kavanagh
But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass
after 11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also
applies to any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is
not valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's
Saturday with no time restrictions).

I suspect that the "all day" rule is just intended to remove the
morning restriction
it's not mean to remove the 11pm restriction
In many areas that point is moot as there are no busses at that time,
and those that are available are more heavily subsidised, hence the
"oldies have to pay" rule

There are even some operators who exclude "night buses" from fully paid
ticket holders (be those all-day, or longer seasons). Requiring
additional one-off payment.

[Certes]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim...

Post by Clive Page

Post by Ross Kavanagh
But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass
after  11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also
applies to  any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is
not  valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's
Saturday  with no time restrictions).

I suspect that the "all day" rule is just intended to remove the
morning restriction
it's not mean to remove the 11pm restriction
In many areas that point is moot as there are no busses at that time,
and those that are available are more heavily subsidised, hence the
"oldies have to pay" rule

There are even some operators who exclude "night buses" from fully paid
ticket holders (be those all-day, or longer seasons). Requiring
additional one-off payment.

I think it's normal to exclude night buses from one-day tickets. (The
clue is in their name.) For longer seasons, it varies. Edinburgh's
changed a few years ago to include night travel, after a period when
season tickets gave a discount on a one-night ticket.

Edinburgh also has a hybrid ticket, valid one evening and night from 6pm
until about 4:30 am, though night buses are currently suspended.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Certes

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim...

Post by Clive Page

Post by Ross Kavanagh
But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass
after  11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction
also applies to  any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass
is not  valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course
it's Saturday  with no time restrictions).

I suspect that the "all day" rule is just intended to remove the
morning restriction
it's not mean to remove the 11pm restriction
In many areas that point is moot as there are no busses at that
time, and those that are available are more heavily subsidised,
hence the "oldies have to pay" rule

There are even some operators who exclude "night buses" from fully
paid ticket holders (be those all-day, or longer seasons). Requiring
additional one-off payment.

I think it's normal to exclude night buses from one-day tickets. (The
clue is in their name.)

Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Post by Certes
For longer seasons, it varies. Edinburgh's
changed a few years ago to include night travel, after a period when
season tickets gave a discount on a one-night ticket.
Edinburgh also has a hybrid ticket, valid one evening and night from 6pm
until about 4:30 am, though night buses are currently suspended.

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what
they are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from purchase,
24 h from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight), until
midnight, sometime after the morning peak until last service, and
horrendously complicated.

[Sam Wilson]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what
they are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from purchase,
24 h from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight), until
midnight, sometime after the morning peak until last service, and
horrendously complicated.

The last time I used one, several years ago, the Nice bus day ticket was 24
hours from Tul... er, purchase.

Sam

[tim...]

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what they
are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from purchase, 24 h
from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight),

24 hours from first use is common in Europe

but I can't recall anywhere in the UK that uses that method

[Rolf Mantel]

Post by tim...

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what
they are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from
purchase, 24 h from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight),

24 hours from first use is common in Europe
but I can't recall anywhere in the UK that uses that method

In my region, they changed from 24h to "up till 2am" about 3 years ago.

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by tim...

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what
they are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from
purchase, 24 h from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight),

24 hours from first use is common in Europe
but I can't recall anywhere in the UK that uses that method

In my region, they changed from 24h to "up till 2am" about 3 years ago.

When I was driving in Birmingham, day tickets were valid from 0930 until
close of daytime services. Not sure what they are these days.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by tim...

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what they
are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from purchase, 24 h
from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight),

24 hours from first use is common in Europe
but I can't recall anywhere in the UK that uses that method

I had a ticket somewhere in Japan (I think it was) like that, which meant
hanging about in the hotel for another hour on the first day to make sure
that the ticket would still be valid for getting to the airport/station (I
can't remember which, or where) for our onwards travel the next day.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[tim...]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by tim...

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what they
are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from purchase, 24 h
from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight),

24 hours from first use is common in Europe
but I can't recall anywhere in the UK that uses that method

I had a ticket somewhere in Japan (I think it was) like that, which meant
hanging about in the hotel for another hour on the first day to make sure
that the ticket would still be valid for getting to the airport/station (I
can't remember which, or where) for our onwards travel the next day.

done that sort of thing many times

:-(

[Lew 1]

Post by tim...

Post by Roland Perry
Public transport day-tickets are usually 4am-4am.

Are they? One of the first things I look for when buying them is what they
are: I've seen until last service, 00:00-24:00, 24 h from purchase, 24 h
from first use (handy when staying somewhere overnight),

24 hours from first use is common in Europe
but I can't recall anywhere in the UK that uses that method

Blackpool Transport is 24hours from when you purchase the ticket on board
(effectively first use) or when you activate your pre-purchased e-ticket in
the app (which you’d be a fool to do any other time than first use).

Not sure how their Pay Point versions work...

Lew

[James Heaton]

Post by Certes

Post by Roland Perry

Post by tim...

Post by Clive Page

Post by Ross Kavanagh
But if an FP holder visits Manchester, they can't use their pass after
11pm, although the locals can. I assume this restriction also applies
to any ENCTS card from outside Manchester.

It's a long-standing oddity that on Fridays the national bus pass is
not valid between 11pm and midnight (after midnight of course it's
Saturday with no time restrictions).

I suspect that the "all day" rule is just intended to remove the morning
restriction
it's not mean to remove the 11pm restriction
In many areas that point is moot as there are no busses at that time,
and those that are available are more heavily subsidised, hence the
"oldies have to pay" rule

There are even some operators who exclude "night buses" from fully paid
ticket holders (be those all-day, or longer seasons). Requiring
additional one-off payment.

I think it's normal to exclude night buses from one-day tickets. (The
clue is in their name.) For longer seasons, it varies. Edinburgh's
changed a few years ago to include night travel, after a period when
season tickets gave a discount on a one-night ticket.
Edinburgh also has a hybrid ticket, valid one evening and night from 6pm
until about 4:30 am, though night buses are currently suspended.

When I was using them around 20yrs ago, Norwich quarterly passes required a
50p single supplement on a night service

James

[Peter Johnson]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings.

I didn't realise that National card holders could travel before 9:30 anyway

They can on payment of a reduced fare.

[tim...]

Post by Peter Johnson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings.

I didn't realise that National card holders could travel before 9:30 anyway

They can on payment of a reduced fare.

In London!

ITYF that's there no mechanism for that, with busses only accepting
contactless forms of "payment" and National Concession Cards not having an
"attached" wallet (if indeed they are even contactless)

HTH

tim

[Roland Perry]

National Concession Cards not having an "attached" wallet (if indeed
they are even contactless)

Of course they are (ITSO).

[h***@yahoo.co.uk]

Post by Recliner
From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings. This is to enable social
distancing on the public transport network and help control the spread
of coronavirus. Your card will continue to be valid at all other times
on weekdays and all day on weekends and Bank Holidays. Disabled
Freedom Pass holders are not affected by these changes and can
continue to use their card at all times.
Where possible, we ask you to avoid travelling immediately after 09:00
to help reduce crowding in buses and trains, where the available space
has effectively been reduced to allow for social distancing. If you
have no option other than to use public transport during the morning
peak period, we recommend that you travel using pay as you go with a
contactless card or device or an Oyster card. For more information,
please visit www.tfl.gov.uk/fares.
We thank you again for all your help as we work together to keep
everyone safe.

I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?

If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

[m***@round-midnight.org.uk]

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

They will need to teach some people how to wear them. I have seen
plenty walking around with the top of their mask below their nostrils.

[tim...]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

They will need to teach some people how to wear them. I have seen
plenty walking around with the top of their mask below their nostrils.

It doesn't need to be a mask, just a face covering

if it weren't so hot I'd be covering my face with a scarf

[Charles Ellson]

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

They will need to teach some people how to wear them. I have seen
plenty walking around with the top of their mask below their nostrils.

It doesn't need to be a mask, just a face covering
if it weren't so hot I'd be covering my face with a scarf

A light-coloured shemagh, thus keeping some of the sun off your head ?

[Recliner]

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

They will need to teach some people how to wear them. I have seen
plenty walking around with the top of their mask below their nostrils.

It doesn't need to be a mask, just a face covering
if it weren't so hot I'd be covering my face with a scarf

Did you see the Ukrainian shop CCTV video of a woman shopper coming up with
an ingenious solution to the demand that she wear face covering to be
served? And, no, she didn't have a scarf.

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

They will need to teach some people how to wear them. I have seen
plenty walking around with the top of their mask below their nostrils.

It doesn't need to be a mask, just a face covering

I cannot properly relate to someone whose face I cannot clearly see*.
This is no joke, nor am I making it up. If I can't see your face, it
makes me extremely uneasy.

*Before anyone jumps on it, this does not apply to telephone
conversations, where I do not expect to be able to see someone's face.
If I am meeting them in person, then I do.

[Scott]

On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 22:22:13 +0100, MissRiaElaine

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

They will need to teach some people how to wear them. I have seen
plenty walking around with the top of their mask below their nostrils.

It doesn't need to be a mask, just a face covering

I cannot properly relate to someone whose face I cannot clearly see*.
This is no joke, nor am I making it up. If I can't see your face, it
makes me extremely uneasy.

Is it also an invitation to shoplift if the perpetrator cannot be
identified?

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by Scott
On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 22:22:13 +0100, MissRiaElaine

Post by MissRiaElaine
I cannot properly relate to someone whose face I cannot clearly see*.
This is no joke, nor am I making it up. If I can't see your face, it
makes me extremely uneasy.

Is it also an invitation to shoplift if the perpetrator cannot be
identified?

I wonder what the figures are for attempted shop thefts since all this
started. Robbers have worn face coverings since time immemorial. Now
everyone can have a go..!

[Bevan Price]

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public
transport from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

Haven't you got those names in the wrong order ? To me, it sometimes
seems as if "C" pulls the strings and "B" opens his mouth.

[Recliner]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public
transport from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

Haven't you got those names in the wrong order ? To me, it sometimes
seems as if "C" pulls the strings and "B" opens his mouth.

Yup, which is why Cummings was indispensable in the short term. But Boris
now knows he needs a new head for the Downing Street operation. It looks
like Simon Case may be that person. Cummings may keep Boris's ear on policy
matters, perhaps in the employ of a think tank.

Boris has been a journo for most of his working life, so he probably does
understand the damage that Cummings' continuing presence does.

[m***@round-midnight.org.uk]

Post by Bevan Price

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public
transport from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

Haven't you got those names in the wrong order ? To me, it sometimes
seems as if "C" pulls the strings and "B" opens his mouth.

Since that was debatable I decided to put the nominal leader first.

[Recliner]

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by Bevan Price

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public
transport from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

Haven't you got those names in the wrong order ? To me, it sometimes
seems as if "C" pulls the strings and "B" opens his mouth.

Since that was debatable I decided to put the nominal leader first.

I'm not sure who now has the role of leaking to the press, but it's been
reported that Boris has taken control, and effectively put Cummings on a
final warning. The Rose Garden event was supposed to be when he cleared
things up, but he blew it. Cummings is now on borrowed time, but Boris
would lose too much face if he fired him before the summer break.

[m***@round-midnight.org.uk]

Post by Recliner

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by Bevan Price

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public
transport from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

Haven't you got those names in the wrong order ? To me, it sometimes
seems as if "C" pulls the strings and "B" opens his mouth.

Since that was debatable I decided to put the nominal leader first.

I'm not sure who now has the role of leaking to the press, but it's been
reported that Boris has taken control, and effectively put Cummings on a
final warning. The Rose Garden event was supposed to be when he cleared
things up, but he blew it. Cummings is now on borrowed time, but Boris
would lose too much face if he fired him before the summer break.

I have no time for these petty political games and never have done.
Johnson has little face left as he's shown himself to be so feeble and
not doing the correct thing so he would actually gain more face by being
strong and getting rid of him now rather than later.

Has he resigned or been sacked from SAGE yet? I've not heard anything
about that.

[Recliner]

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by Recliner

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by Bevan Price

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public
transport from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

Johnson and Cummings only run England so it's only there so far but I
suspect the other countries will follow their lead.

Haven't you got those names in the wrong order ? To me, it sometimes
seems as if "C" pulls the strings and "B" opens his mouth.

Since that was debatable I decided to put the nominal leader first.

I'm not sure who now has the role of leaking to the press, but it's been
reported that Boris has taken control, and effectively put Cummings on a
final warning. The Rose Garden event was supposed to be when he cleared
things up, but he blew it. Cummings is now on borrowed time, but Boris
would lose too much face if he fired him before the summer break.

I have no time for these petty political games and never have done.
Johnson has little face left as he's shown himself to be so feeble and
not doing the correct thing so he would actually gain more face by being
strong and getting rid of him now rather than later.

He should have got rid of him immediately. Both of them should have
realised that his continuing official presence was damaging to the PM and
the government. But, having backed him so strongly, Boris now needs to wait
before getting rid of him; to do so too soon would just compound the
damage. My guess is that he'll be gone by September.

I suspect that Cummings isn't much enjoying the job any more. He's lost a
lot of his power, is viewed as a comic figure rather than one of the great
intellects of his day, is being harassed by the press (which won't stop
until he's gone), and his family are also under scrutiny (eg, his father's
apparently illegal conversion of a swimming pool into a house, his wife's
porkies in the Spectator). She was all set to be the next editor of the
magazine, but that now looks unlikely — not that telling porkies
disqualifies one from that job, as a former editor could attest:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Johnson#The_Spectator_and_MP_for_Henley:_1999–2008>

So Cummings will probably be happy to depart, once he knows that there
won't be an extension to the transition period.

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
Has he resigned or been sacked from SAGE yet? I've not heard anything
about that.

He was never officially a member of SAGE, not that the government has been
open about either its membership or its advice. He just invited himself to
the (presumably virtual) meetings. We don't know if he was there just to
listen, or to try and influence the advice SAGE delivered to the
government. I have to suspect the latter.

[Marland]

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

As they want as small a number of travellers as practical so that people
who have to make a journey
can have a better opportunity to maintain the 2m distance rule then the
loss of people like you who object to any further restrictions will just be
a welcome side benefit.

GH

[Recliner]

Post by Marland

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

As they want as small a number of travellers as practical so that people
who have to make a journey
can have a better opportunity to maintain the 2m distance rule then the
loss of people like you who object to any further restrictions will just be
a welcome side benefit.

They probably also prefer that those limited number be workers, not retired
people, particularly if they are travelling on their bus passes.

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by Marland

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

As they want as small a number of travellers as practical so that people
who have to make a journey
can have a better opportunity to maintain the 2m distance rule then the
loss of people like you who object to any further restrictions will just be
a welcome side benefit.

No passengers = no revenue. How many businesses can stand that for long..?

[Recliner]

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Marland

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

As they want as small a number of travellers as practical so that people
who have to make a journey
can have a better opportunity to maintain the 2m distance rule then the
loss of people like you who object to any further restrictions will just be
a welcome side benefit.

No passengers = no revenue. How many businesses can stand that for long..?

None, but them's the rules for public transport for the moment.

[Marland]

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Marland

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

As they want as small a number of travellers as practical so that people
who have to make a journey
can have a better opportunity to maintain the 2m distance rule then the
loss of people like you who object to any further restrictions will just be
a welcome side benefit.

No passengers = no revenue. How many businesses can stand that for long..?

Most public transport in this country needs external financial support
anyway,
at the moment when you take a journey up in Aberdeen it is highly likely
that your ticket isn’t covering the costs, even more so if you are using
one of the concessionary schemes for older people .
So if people like you decide not to travel it will be more economic and
better for revenue not to run
buses or trains to cater for you at all. No casual passengers, No Need
for subsidy , No Service Needed. Trains and buses become the preserve of
those who have to use them daily for work
and are reserved for use by holders of season rickets or some form thereof
who are allocated a service and have to stick to it.

Okay that is only a what could happen but in the scheme of things whether
you decide to travel or not because of new restrictions such as wearing a
face covering the loss of your subsidised fare isn’t going to have much
bearing on the situation.

GH

[tim...]

Post by Marland

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Marland

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also just heard that masks will be mandatory on all public transport
from 15 June.

Where..? Just London or nationwide..?
If they try it here that's our custom they'll lose.

As they want as small a number of travellers as practical so that people
who have to make a journey
can have a better opportunity to maintain the 2m distance rule then the
loss of people like you who object to any further restrictions will just be
a welcome side benefit.

No passengers = no revenue. How many businesses can stand that for long..?

Most public transport in this country needs external financial support
anyway,
at the moment when you take a journey up in Aberdeen it is highly likely
that your ticket isn’t covering the costs, even more so if you are using
one of the concessionary schemes for older people .
So if people like you decide not to travel it will be more economic and
better for revenue not to run
buses or trains to cater for you at all. No casual passengers, No Need
for subsidy , No Service Needed. Trains and buses become the preserve of
those who have to use them daily for work
and are reserved for use by holders of season rickets

It's not right to conflated workers with season ticket holders

many workers (who use PT to get to work) don't buy season tickets

[Marland]

Post by tim...

Post by Marland
Most public transport in this country needs external financial support
anyway,
at the moment when you take a journey up in Aberdeen it is highly likely
that your ticket isn’t covering the costs, even more so if you are using
one of the concessionary schemes for older people .
So if people like you decide not to travel it will be more economic and
better for revenue not to run
buses or trains to cater for you at all. No casual passengers, No Need
for subsidy , No Service Needed. Trains and buses become the preserve of
those who have to use them daily for work
and are reserved for use by holders of season rickets

It's not right to conflated workers with season ticket holders
many workers (who use PT to get to work) don't buy season tickets

Which was the reason for the words tacked on the end

“or some form thereof” which you have snipped.

Regular travellers that are used to turn up an go may have to adapt their
habits should space allocation schemes be introduced, what the tickets
would be called I have no idea hence the
some form thereof. It could be just an electronic reservation system but
any thing like that will have to be controlled to make sure those who book
actually make use of it and are not booking just in case and then not
turning up leaving empty space that others could have used.
Personally I can see this will be an opportunity for the train operators to
severely restrict the availability of walk up and go tickets for long
distance services even after the plaque has passed*
but for commuter traffic moving from the situation where even when trains
packed like sardines were not enough to satisfy demand moving to a scenario
where people have to be spaced apart will be such a change as to be
unworkable.

* passing could be it just gets accepted that some people will get it and
some will die.


GH

[Recliner]

Post by Marland

Post by tim...

Post by Marland
Most public transport in this country needs external financial support
anyway,
at the moment when you take a journey up in Aberdeen it is highly likely
that your ticket isn’t covering the costs, even more so if you are using
one of the concessionary schemes for older people .
So if people like you decide not to travel it will be more economic and
better for revenue not to run
buses or trains to cater for you at all. No casual passengers, No Need
for subsidy , No Service Needed. Trains and buses become the preserve of
those who have to use them daily for work
and are reserved for use by holders of season rickets

It's not right to conflated workers with season ticket holders
many workers (who use PT to get to work) don't buy season tickets

Which was the reason for the words tacked on the end
“or some form thereof” which you have snipped.
Regular travellers that are used to turn up an go may have to adapt their
habits should space allocation schemes be introduced, what the tickets
would be called I have no idea hence the
some form thereof. It could be just an electronic reservation system but
any thing like that will have to be controlled to make sure those who book
actually make use of it and are not booking just in case and then not
turning up leaving empty space that others could have used.
Personally I can see this will be an opportunity for the train operators to
severely restrict the availability of walk up and go tickets for long
distance services even after the plaque has passed*
but for commuter traffic moving from the situation where even when trains
packed like sardines were not enough to satisfy demand moving to a scenario
where people have to be spaced apart will be such a change as to be
unworkable.
* passing could be it just gets accepted that some people will get it and
some will die.

There was a recent interesting article by (Lord) Matt Ridley in the
Spectator on how previous pandemics have passed. He makes the point that
there have been many pandemics in history, and vaccines are seldom found
(or, at least, not quickly enough to stop them). It's very rarely possible
to completely eliminate a virus, but all pandemics end within a year or
two, with or without scientific intervention (which wasn't possible till
very recently).

One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

[Certes]

Post by Recliner
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

If we're really lucky, hosts of the benign variant may develop immunity
to the original versions, providing us with a free vaccine.

[Recliner]

Post by Certes

Post by Recliner
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

If we're really lucky, hosts of the benign variant may develop immunity
to the original versions, providing us with a free vaccine.

Yes, that may be part of why pandemics are short-lived. If the benign
version spreads widely, as it's evolved to do, it could mean that the whole
population develops some level of immunity to its nastier cousins.

[b***@nowhere.co.uk]

On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 10:30:56 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Certes

Post by Recliner
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

If we're really lucky, hosts of the benign variant may develop immunity
to the original versions, providing us with a free vaccine.

Yes, that may be part of why pandemics are short-lived. If the benign
version spreads widely, as it's evolved to do, it could mean that the whole
population develops some level of immunity to its nastier cousins.

The alternative method of pandemics stopping is that it kills everyone who
is susceptable. Which is why the black death disappeared for hundreds of
years at a time them came back when genetic immunity had been lost. We're
rather overdue for another dose though cleaner living since the 20th
century in the west and antibiotics has probably done for that particular
disease.

[Basil Jet]

Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Sat, 6 Jun 2020 10:30:56 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Certes

Post by Recliner
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

If we're really lucky, hosts of the benign variant may develop immunity
to the original versions, providing us with a free vaccine.

Yes, that may be part of why pandemics are short-lived. If the benign
version spreads widely, as it's evolved to do, it could mean that the whole
population develops some level of immunity to its nastier cousins.

The alternative method of pandemics stopping is that it kills everyone who
is susceptable. Which is why the black death disappeared for hundreds of
years at a time them came back when genetic immunity had been lost. We're
rather overdue for another dose though cleaner living since the 20th
century in the west and antibiotics has probably done for that particular
disease.

People still get it in the Western USA: Mortality associated with
treated cases of bubonic plague is about 1–15%, compared to a mortality
of 40–60% in untreated cases.

[Recliner]

Post by Certes

Post by Recliner
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

If we're really lucky, hosts of the benign variant may develop immunity
to the original versions, providing us with a free vaccine.

Incidentally, here's the original article:
<https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/could-the-key-to-covid-be-found-in-the-russian-pandemic>

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Recliner

Post by Certes

Post by Recliner
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

If we're really lucky, hosts of the benign variant may develop immunity
to the original versions, providing us with a free vaccine.

<https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/could-the-key-to-covid-be-found-in-the-russian-pandemic>

Interesting theory.

[Jeremy Double]

Post by Recliner

Post by Marland

Post by tim...

Post by Marland
Most public transport in this country needs external financial support
anyway,
at the moment when you take a journey up in Aberdeen it is highly likely
that your ticket isn’t covering the costs, even more so if you are using
one of the concessionary schemes for older people .
So if people like you decide not to travel it will be more economic and
better for revenue not to run
buses or trains to cater for you at all. No casual passengers, No Need
for subsidy , No Service Needed. Trains and buses become the preserve of
those who have to use them daily for work
and are reserved for use by holders of season rickets

It's not right to conflated workers with season ticket holders
many workers (who use PT to get to work) don't buy season tickets

Which was the reason for the words tacked on the end
“or some form thereof” which you have snipped.
Regular travellers that are used to turn up an go may have to adapt their
habits should space allocation schemes be introduced, what the tickets
would be called I have no idea hence the
some form thereof. It could be just an electronic reservation system but
any thing like that will have to be controlled to make sure those who book
actually make use of it and are not booking just in case and then not
turning up leaving empty space that others could have used.
Personally I can see this will be an opportunity for the train operators to
severely restrict the availability of walk up and go tickets for long
distance services even after the plaque has passed*
but for commuter traffic moving from the situation where even when trains
packed like sardines were not enough to satisfy demand moving to a scenario
where people have to be spaced apart will be such a change as to be
unworkable.
* passing could be it just gets accepted that some people will get it and
some will die.

There was a recent interesting article by (Lord) Matt Ridley in the
Spectator on how previous pandemics have passed. He makes the point that
there have been many pandemics in history, and vaccines are seldom found
(or, at least, not quickly enough to stop them). It's very rarely possible
to completely eliminate a virus, but all pandemics end within a year or
two, with or without scientific intervention (which wasn't possible till
very recently).
One reason is that evolutionary pressures makes the virus less lethal.
After all, for the virus to survive and thrive, its hosts also needs to
stay well enough to mix with other potential hosts. If a lethal strain of
the virus immediately makes infected hosts ill, and kills many of them, the
virus can't spread. Conversely, if it mutates to cause minimal symptoms, it
will spread widely. So, benign mutations are more successful than lethal
ones.

That’s one reason why this virus has been so successful (from the point of
view of the virus) compared with SARS and MERS. Lots of people don’t get
very ill, and it is spread by pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic sufferers.

[GB]

Post by Recliner
From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings. This is to enable social
distancing on the public transport network and help control the spread
of coronavirus. Your card will continue to be valid at all other times
on weekdays and all day on weekends and Bank Holidays. Disabled
Freedom Pass holders are not affected by these changes and can
continue to use their card at all times.
Where possible, we ask you to avoid travelling immediately after 09:00
to help reduce crowding in buses and trains, where the available space
has effectively been reduced to allow for social distancing. If you
have no option other than to use public transport during the morning
peak period, we recommend that you travel using pay as you go with a
contactless card or device or an Oyster card. For more information,
please visit www.tfl.gov.uk/fares.
We thank you again for all your help as we work together to keep
everyone safe.

What does this mean, exactly? For example, is travelling at half past
midnight after 0900 or before it?

And what about the first train in the morning at around 0500? Is that okay?

Why don't they say that it can't be used from 0700 to 0900, say? And
similarly for the evening peak.

And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

It's wonderful that the link provided gives even less information than
the OP. :)

[GB]

Post by GB

 From Monday 15 June, we are making temporary changes to the 60+ London
Oyster card and the Older Person's Freedom Pass during morning peak
hours. These changes are being introduced following TfL's funding
agreement with Government which required temporary restrictions for
customers with these concession cards.
Passengers with a 60+ Oyster card, Older Person's Freedom Pass, or
English National Concessionary Scheme pass will not be able to use
these cards before 09:00 on weekday mornings. This is to enable social
distancing on the public transport network and help control the spread
of coronavirus. Your card will continue to be valid at all other times
on weekdays and all day on weekends and Bank Holidays. Disabled
Freedom Pass holders are not affected by these changes and can
continue to use their card at all times.
Where possible, we ask you to avoid travelling immediately after 09:00
to help reduce crowding in buses and trains, where the available space
has effectively been reduced to allow for social distancing. If you
have no option other than to use public transport during the morning
peak period, we recommend that you travel using pay as you go with a
contactless card or device or an Oyster card. For more information,
please visit www.tfl.gov.uk/fares.
We thank you again for all your help as we work together to keep
everyone safe.

What does this mean, exactly? For example, is travelling at half past
midnight after 0900 or before it?
And what about the first train in the morning at around 0500? Is that okay?
Why don't they say that it can't be used from 0700 to 0900, say? And
similarly for the evening peak.
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?
It's wonderful that the link provided gives even less information than
the OP. :)

Ah, sorry. That's all been answered by Tim's second post.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.


Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

[tim...]

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent

even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route

So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5 hours
on a Sat night/Sun Morning

tim

[Recliner]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well
a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5 hours
on a Sat night/Sun Morning

They cut the night bus service back on routes that paralled the Night Tube
— I wonder if the previous service has, or will be, restored?

[tim...]

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well
a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5 hours
on a Sat night/Sun Morning

They cut the night bus service back on routes that paralled the Night Tube

how does that work, given that night busses operate 7 days a week

and the tube 2 days a week

I didn't previously notice that night busses were more frequent on Fri and
Sat nights

Every night bus round here, both radial routes and tangential routes seems
to operate every 30 minutes 7 days a week

the only difference being that night frequency continues longer into Sunday
morning before day time frequency commences.

FTAOD, none of them parallel the tube, except in a very minor way

[Basil Jet]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
They cut the night bus service back on routes that paralled the Night Tube

how does that work, given that night busses operate 7 days a week
and the tube 2 days a week
I didn't previously notice that night busses were more frequent on Fri
and Sat nights

The N29 used to have extra buses that only ran to Wood Green on the
weekends.

Post by tim...
FTAOD, none of them parallel the tube, except in a very minor way

That might be true around your way, but the N1, N5 and N91 used to
parallel the tube in a very major way. I haven't checked recently.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

Try that about 04.00 on the Jubilee Line from London to Stanmore and
you won't achieve social distancing if the usual passengers are
present.

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...
a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5 hours
on a Sat night/Sun Morning

IME that can often be a normal waiting time on the Piccadilly Line
around 03.00. The service seems very random compared with the Jubilee
and Northern Lines.

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
They cut the night bus service back on routes that paralled the Night Tube

how does that work, given that night busses operate 7 days a week
and the tube 2 days a week

Many LB night buses only operate at weekends (e.g. 140, 183) and not
always on all or exactly the same route. The one near me that is 7
days/week (N98) does parallel some of the Jubilee Line.
<snip>

[tim...]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

. along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports
to
see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

Try that about 04.00 on the Jubilee Line from London to Stanmore and
you won't achieve social distancing if the usual passengers are
present.

if the trains are full and overloaded, why is it making a loss?

I don't have a problem with providing a service that matches demand

I was just saying that it the trains are running around carrying fresh air
(a reasonable assumption after a claim that they are loss making), there
should be fewer of them

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...
a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5 hours
on a Sat night/Sun Morning

IME that can often be a normal waiting time on the Piccadilly Line
around 03.00. The service seems very random compared with the Jubilee
and Northern Lines.

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
They cut the night bus service back on routes that paralled the Night Tube

how does that work, given that night busses operate 7 days a week
and the tube 2 days a week

Many LB night buses only operate at weekends (e.g. 140, 183)

IME it's not "many"

Round here, of about 20 routes which operate night services only 2 are
weekend only

and I would guess that nearer the centre, the ratio is even smaller

tim

[Charles Ellson]

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

. along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports
to
see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

Try that about 04.00 on the Jubilee Line from London to Stanmore and
you won't achieve social distancing if the usual passengers are
present.

if the trains are full and overloaded, why is it making a loss?

Does the Underground make a profit ?

Post by tim...
I don't have a problem with providing a service that matches demand
I was just saying that it the trains are running around carrying fresh air

Lots do in normal times.

Post by tim...
(a reasonable assumption after a claim that they are loss making),

Is it ?

Post by tim...
there should be fewer of them

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by tim...
a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5 hours
on a Sat night/Sun Morning

IME that can often be a normal waiting time on the Piccadilly Line
around 03.00. The service seems very random compared with the Jubilee
and Northern Lines.

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner
They cut the night bus service back on routes that paralled the Night Tube

how does that work, given that night busses operate 7 days a week
and the tube 2 days a week

Many LB night buses only operate at weekends (e.g. 140, 183)

IME it's not "many"
Round here, of about 20 routes which operate night services only 2 are
weekend only

2 out of 2 "round here" are weekend only. The nearest all week one is
a mile walk away.

Post by tim...
and I would guess that nearer the centre, the ratio is even smaller

[Recliner]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

. along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports
to
see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

Try that about 04.00 on the Jubilee Line from London to Stanmore and
you won't achieve social distancing if the usual passengers are
present.

if the trains are full and overloaded, why is it making a loss?

Does the Underground make a profit ?

Yes, in normal times, it made an operating profit, which helped to
subsidise the loss-making buses. However, I don't think the operating
profit was ever enough to fully fund the capital investment, so it didn't
make a true, bottom line profit.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

. along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports
to
see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

Try that about 04.00 on the Jubilee Line from London to Stanmore and
you won't achieve social distancing if the usual passengers are
present.

if the trains are full and overloaded, why is it making a loss?

Does the Underground make a profit ?

Yes. And due to TfL being, AIUI, the only metropolitan railed transport
network in the country not to receive a subsidy, it also has to
cross-subsidise the loss-making bus network.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Charles Ellson]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 14:11:31 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Charles Ellson

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

. along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports
to
see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well

Try that about 04.00 on the Jubilee Line from London to Stanmore and
you won't achieve social distancing if the usual passengers are
present.

if the trains are full and overloaded, why is it making a loss?

Does the Underground make a profit ?

Yes. And due to TfL being, AIUI, the only metropolitan railed transport
network in the country not to receive a subsidy, it also has to
cross-subsidise the loss-making bus network.

OTOH the buses (in normal times) probably keep a lot of cars off the
road and feed the Underground.

[Trolleybus]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route

You sure? When the Piccadilly Line Night Tube was being floated there
was a TL consultation concerning changes to nearby bus routes. They
proposed reducing the southern part of the N29 from its then current
headway of every 3-5 minutes.

[tim...]

Post by Trolleybus

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

. along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

I was surprised to see one of the burger vans back in the centre of Bristol
at 3am this week.
Night tube has apparently been losing huge amounts of money since it began,
so I suspect that it won't return any time soon.

Ah, I didn't know that. They kept on putting out bullish statements on how
well it was doing, and now popular it's becoming, but not anything on the
finances. You probably have to dig deep into TfL's financial reports to see
an analysis of Night Tube numbers, if they're published at all.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I can't
look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route

You sure?

there's no way to check at the moment

But the last time that I checked how I might get back from an airport after
the last train/tube, all the options were 30 minute frequency

Post by Trolleybus
When the Piccadilly Line Night Tube was being floated there
was a TL consultation concerning changes to nearby bus routes. They
proposed reducing the southern part of the N29 from its then current
headway of every 3-5 minutes.

seems excessive even as day time route

[Basil Jet]

Post by tim...

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

ISTM that once every 10 minutes (if my Google result was correct - I
can't look up current schedules) is far too frequent
even busses, which carry far smaller numbers usually only run ever 30
minutes on each route
So surely every 30 minutes is frequent enough for the tube as well
a 25 minute wait at 2am is nothing compared to the previous wait of 5
hours on a Sat night/Sun Morning

If you're alone, granted, but if you're a young man who's just pulled,
you need to seal the deal before she changes her mind, and making small
talk for 25 minutes will seem like eternity.

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

It's like that in the daytime as well. Every time I go food shopping
it's like Sunday in the 1960's, very depressing. I just wonder how many
of the closed shops will reopen, there were enough empty ones along most
of the main streets here before all this started, I dread to think how
many will be like that once they are allowed to reopen.

[Recliner]

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

It's like that in the daytime as well. Every time I go food shopping
it's like Sunday in the 1960's, very depressing. I just wonder how many
of the closed shops will reopen, there were enough empty ones along most
of the main streets here before all this started, I dread to think how
many will be like that once they are allowed to reopen.æ

In the day, you have the queues along the pavements or through the car
parks to enter the open shops, pharmacies, supermarkets, bank branches,
etc. Sometimes the queues for different shops overlap, needing to be
choreographed (the really bizarre ones snake through the Ikea car parks,
Disneyland-style).

So, oddly enough, there are quite a few people on the streets, even if most
are, in your favourite phrase, socially distanced. But we need a new
etiquette for whether/when to keep silent or talk to the next person 2m
behind in the slowly-moving queue. In London, silence usually rules, but
I'd expect more chatting in friendly places like Liverpool or Newcastle.

[tim...]

Post by Recliner

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

It's like that in the daytime as well. Every time I go food shopping
it's like Sunday in the 1960's, very depressing. I just wonder how many
of the closed shops will reopen, there were enough empty ones along most
of the main streets here before all this started, I dread to think how
many will be like that once they are allowed to reopen.æ

In the day, you have the queues along the pavements or through the car
parks to enter the open shops, pharmacies, supermarkets, bank branches,
etc. Sometimes the queues for different shops overlap, needing to be
choreographed (the really bizarre ones snake through the Ikea car parks,
Disneyland-style).

I try and go at a time that I don't have to Q

9am works pretty well

Though the Ikea Q looks unavoidable

I don't need my new shelf unit that badly

(before anyone asks - unavailable for delivery)


tim

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by tim...
I try and go at a time that I don't have to Q
9am works pretty well

It might for you, but I don't surface until well after that..! Mornings
are ignored as much as possible in this household..!

[MissRiaElaine]

Post by Recliner

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

It's like that in the daytime as well. Every time I go food shopping
it's like Sunday in the 1960's, very depressing. I just wonder how many
of the closed shops will reopen, there were enough empty ones along most
of the main streets here before all this started, I dread to think how
many will be like that once they are allowed to reopen.æ

In the day, you have the queues along the pavements or through the car
parks to enter the open shops, pharmacies, supermarkets, bank branches,
etc. Sometimes the queues for different shops overlap, needing to be
choreographed (the really bizarre ones snake through the Ikea car parks,
Disneyland-style).
So, oddly enough, there are quite a few people on the streets, even if most
are, in your favourite phrase, socially distanced. But we need a new
etiquette for whether/when to keep silent or talk to the next person 2m
behind in the slowly-moving queue. In London, silence usually rules, but
I'd expect more chatting in friendly places like Liverpool or Newcastle.

No queuing outside the high street shops here, although there was when
we attempted to buy a new loo seat at B&Q. One look and we decided it
could wait until another day...

[m***@round-midnight.org.uk]

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Recliner

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

It's like that in the daytime as well. Every time I go food shopping
it's like Sunday in the 1960's, very depressing. I just wonder how many
of the closed shops will reopen, there were enough empty ones along most
of the main streets here before all this started, I dread to think how
many will be like that once they are allowed to reopen.æ

In the day, you have the queues along the pavements or through the car
parks to enter the open shops, pharmacies, supermarkets, bank branches,
etc. Sometimes the queues for different shops overlap, needing to be
choreographed (the really bizarre ones snake through the Ikea car parks,
Disneyland-style).
So, oddly enough, there are quite a few people on the streets, even if most
are, in your favourite phrase, socially distanced. But we need a new
etiquette for whether/when to keep silent or talk to the next person 2m
behind in the slowly-moving queue. In London, silence usually rules, but
I'd expect more chatting in friendly places like Liverpool or Newcastle.

No queuing outside the high street shops here, although there was when
we attempted to buy a new loo seat at B&Q. One look and we decided it
could wait until another day...

Toolstation and Screwfix are click and collect at the door although I
don't know if they specifically flog loo seats.

[Charles Ellson]

Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Recliner

Post by MissRiaElaine

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by GB
And, I thought the trains were going to run all night?

Night Tube is suspended indefinitely AIUI.

… along with London's night economy which it serves. For obvious
reasons,
I've not been in a town centre at night lately, but it must be weirdly
empty, with all pubs, restaurants, theatres, clubs, etc closed.

It's like that in the daytime as well. Every time I go food shopping
it's like Sunday in the 1960's, very depressing. I just wonder how many
of the closed shops will reopen, there were enough empty ones along most
of the main streets here before all this started, I dread to think how
many will be like that once they are allowed to reopen.æ

In the day, you have the queues along the pavements or through the car
parks to enter the open shops, pharmacies, supermarkets, bank branches,
etc. Sometimes the queues for different shops overlap, needing to be
choreographed (the really bizarre ones snake through the Ikea car parks,
Disneyland-style).
So, oddly enough, there are quite a few people on the streets, even if most
are, in your favourite phrase, socially distanced. But we need a new
etiquette for whether/when to keep silent or talk to the next person 2m
behind in the slowly-moving queue. In London, silence usually rules, but
I'd expect more chatting in friendly places like Liverpool or Newcastle.

No queuing outside the high street shops here, although there was when
we attempted to buy a new loo seat at B&Q. One look and we decided it
could wait until another day...

Toolstation and Screwfix are click and collect at the door although I
don't know if they specifically flog loo seats.

Screwfix do with a Henry Ford style range of colours (mostly white,
some black, one oak, one mahogany-veneered MDF).