Discussion:
717s skipping stops
(too old to reply)
b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
2019-05-24 17:31:06 UTC
Permalink
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at these
stations wrt these trains?
Recliner
2019-05-24 20:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at these
stations wrt these trains?
I know they currently need a second driver in the cab at some stations till
the signals are relocated. Perhaps, in the absence of said second pair of
eyes, they have to skip such stations?
b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
2019-05-25 10:19:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:30:04 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at these
stations wrt these trains?
I know they currently need a second driver in the cab at some stations till
the signals are relocated. Perhaps, in the absence of said second pair of
eyes, they have to skip such stations?
Sounds plausible. Suits me though - saves 5 mins on the journey!
Recliner
2019-05-25 10:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:30:04 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at these
stations wrt these trains?
I know they currently need a second driver in the cab at some stations till
the signals are relocated. Perhaps, in the absence of said second pair of
eyes, they have to skip such stations?
Sounds plausible. Suits me though - saves 5 mins on the journey!
Do they warn in advance that the stops will be skipped? That might confirm
the theory.
b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
2019-05-25 10:54:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:33:40 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:30:04 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at
these
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
stations wrt these trains?
I know they currently need a second driver in the cab at some stations till
the signals are relocated. Perhaps, in the absence of said second pair of
eyes, they have to skip such stations?
Sounds plausible. Suits me though - saves 5 mins on the journey!
Do they warn in advance that the stops will be skipped? That might confirm
the theory.
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Recliner
2019-05-25 11:38:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:54:26 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:33:40 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:30:04 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at
these
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
stations wrt these trains?
I know they currently need a second driver in the cab at some stations till
the signals are relocated. Perhaps, in the absence of said second pair of
eyes, they have to skip such stations?
Sounds plausible. Suits me though - saves 5 mins on the journey!
Do they warn in advance that the stops will be skipped? That might confirm
the theory.
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Yes, that seems to confirm it. I suppose that the other possibility is
that they're some sort of express skip-stop service, that would suit
travellers such as you, but I guess that they'd then be branded and
promoted as such.

This story provides a bit more info, but doesn't actually answer the
question:
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6790547/200million-train-cab-drivers-window-passengers-danger.html>
b***@mz3tt8n68.com
2019-05-25 14:53:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 12:38:47 +0100
Post by Recliner
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:54:26 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Yes, that seems to confirm it. I suppose that the other possibility is
that they're some sort of express skip-stop service, that would suit
travellers such as you, but I guess that they'd then be branded and
promoted as such.
That would probably be a first on that section of line.
Post by Recliner
This story provides a bit more info, but doesn't actually answer the
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6790547/200million-train-cab-drivers-
window-passengers-danger.html>
Looking at the cab photos it does look rather overcrowded and its fairly
obvious why the drivers view is restricted. But they really should have
thought of this during the design. I wonder if a mirror at a suitable angle on
the left of the drivers window that could be folded away when above ground
would help them see the signals?
Recliner
2019-05-25 16:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@mz3tt8n68.com
On Sat, 25 May 2019 12:38:47 +0100
Post by Recliner
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:54:26 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Yes, that seems to confirm it. I suppose that the other possibility is
that they're some sort of express skip-stop service, that would suit
travellers such as you, but I guess that they'd then be branded and
promoted as such.
That would probably be a first on that section of line.
Post by Recliner
This story provides a bit more info, but doesn't actually answer the
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6790547/200million-train-cab-drivers-
window-passengers-danger.html>
Looking at the cab photos it does look rather overcrowded and its fairly
obvious why the drivers view is restricted. But they really should have
thought of this during the design. I wonder if a mirror at a suitable angle on
the left of the drivers window that could be folded away when above ground
would help them see the signals?
Perhaps, but it won't be an issue for long, as the line is soon moving
to in-cab signalling with ERTMS.

Modern trains with through gangway cabs do have very cramped driver's
compartments and limited views because of the stronger protective
structures around the driver, and energy-absorbing front-ends.
Basil Jet
2019-05-25 18:00:51 UTC
Permalink
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Pere Ubu - 1991 - Worlds In Collision
Recliner
2019-05-25 20:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.

The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Basil Jet
2019-05-25 21:50:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.
The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Thanks, I didn't see that story. So can't they just stop a bit further
back, or do these new trains not have selective door opening? Or would
that leave them hanging into the previous block and killing the line
capacity?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Pere Ubu - 1991 - Worlds In Collision
Recliner
2019-05-25 21:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.
The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Thanks, I didn't see that story. So can't they just stop a bit further
back, or do these new trains not have selective door opening? Or would
that leave them hanging into the previous block and killing the line
capacity?
Neither:
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6790547/200million-train-cab-drivers-window-passengers-danger.html>
b***@id6z.ac.uk
2019-05-26 14:35:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 21:59:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.
The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Thanks, I didn't see that story. So can't they just stop a bit further
back, or do these new trains not have selective door opening? Or would
that leave them hanging into the previous block and killing the line
capacity?
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6790547/200million-train-cab-drivers-
window-passengers-danger.html>
Looking at the cab pictures again, I wonder why they didn't put the drivers
equipment at shoulder or lower height as in most locomotives so he could see
to the right, and then put a window in the emergency door. That would probably
solve a lot of the visibility issues.
Recliner
2019-05-26 15:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@id6z.ac.uk
On Sat, 25 May 2019 21:59:38 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.
The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Thanks, I didn't see that story. So can't they just stop a bit further
back, or do these new trains not have selective door opening? Or would
that leave them hanging into the previous block and killing the line
capacity?
<https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6790547/200million-train-cab-drivers-
window-passengers-danger.html>
Looking at the cab pictures again, I wonder why they didn't put the drivers
equipment at shoulder or lower height as in most locomotives so he could see
to the right, and then put a window in the emergency door. That would probably
solve a lot of the visibility issues.
I think the emergency ramp folds against the inside of the door.
b***@65f5em1.gov.uk
2019-05-26 15:57:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 May 2019 16:01:09 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@id6z.ac.uk
Looking at the cab pictures again, I wonder why they didn't put the drivers
equipment at shoulder or lower height as in most locomotives so he could see
to the right, and then put a window in the emergency door. That would probably
solve a lot of the visibility issues.
I think the emergency ramp folds against the inside of the door.
Ah. A simple solution but probably not the smartest it turns out.
b***@99pc_tbfkhxhus5l5x.gov.uk
2019-05-26 14:32:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 20:44:31 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.
The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Are they fitting all the lines out of KX? If its just the tunnel section to
moorgate it seems a bit overkill given AFAIK the max speed is only 30mph.
Recliner
2019-05-26 15:06:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 26 May 2019 14:32:07 +0000 (UTC),
Post by b***@99pc_tbfkhxhus5l5x.gov.uk
On Sat, 25 May 2019 20:44:31 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
What baffles me is why why poor signal views in a tunnel would prevent
stopping at a station but would allow whizzing through. It sounds more
like the new trains are longer than the old ones and the driver's cab of
a stopped new train is the wrong side of the starter, and the in-cab
tech solution isn't working yet.
They're not longer, but have to stop further back for the driver, sitting
further back in the narrow cab, to be able to see the signal, as indicated
in the newspaper report I linked.
The trains are fully fitted for ERTMS, but it's not yet installed on the
line. I'm not sure when it'll go live. When it is, the lineside signals
will be removed.
Are they fitting all the lines out of KX? If its just the tunnel section to
moorgate it seems a bit overkill given AFAIK the max speed is only 30mph.
All the lines.

<https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2018/11/15/the-digital-railway-progresses-to-the-east-coast-main-line/>
Basil Jet
2019-05-25 14:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:33:40 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
On Fri, 24 May 2019 20:30:04 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
For the 2nd time I've now been on 717 out of Moorgate and for the 2nd time
it skipped Old Street and Essex road. Anyone know if this is to do with the
sighting issues that have been mentioned or there some other problem at
these
Post by b***@u8vilvliuobpe3ed46ubycyoc.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@jwamt2eno0ar934zw9wccmqi5.gov
stations wrt these trains?
I know they currently need a second driver in the cab at some stations till
the signals are relocated. Perhaps, in the absence of said second pair of
eyes, they have to skip such stations?
Sounds plausible. Suits me though - saves 5 mins on the journey!
Do they warn in advance that the stops will be skipped? That might confirm
the theory.
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Are these scheduled trains, or are they untimetabled extras going to
Gordon Hill? If I showed up at Old Street for an infrequent service to
Bayford and saw it flying through the station I wouldn't be impressed,
particularly if I'd just let a few trains go because they weren't
calling at Bayford.

Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to Stevenage
on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of replacement bus times.
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth, but they can't be
arsed.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Pere Ubu - 1991 - Worlds In Collision
b***@adl8tumx.edu
2019-05-25 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 15:26:41 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Are these scheduled trains, or are they untimetabled extras going to
Gordon Hill? If I showed up at Old Street for an infrequent service to
The train was going to gordon hill but whether it was timetabled or not I
couldn't say.
Basil Jet
2019-05-25 17:28:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@adl8tumx.edu
On Sat, 25 May 2019 15:26:41 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Are these scheduled trains, or are they untimetabled extras going to
Gordon Hill? If I showed up at Old Street for an infrequent service to
The train was going to gordon hill but whether it was timetabled or not I
couldn't say.
Roughly what time did they leave Moorgate, and was it Sat/Sun/Other?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Pere Ubu - 1991 - Worlds In Collision
b***@tv3kguhu.com
2019-05-26 14:28:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 May 2019 18:28:31 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@adl8tumx.edu
On Sat, 25 May 2019 15:26:41 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Are these scheduled trains, or are they untimetabled extras going to
Gordon Hill? If I showed up at Old Street for an infrequent service to
The train was going to gordon hill but whether it was timetabled or not I
couldn't say.
Roughly what time did they leave Moorgate, and was it Sat/Sun/Other?
Around 2.30 on friday afternoon.
Basil Jet
2019-05-26 15:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@tv3kguhu.com
On Sat, 25 May 2019 18:28:31 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@adl8tumx.edu
On Sat, 25 May 2019 15:26:41 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@ez7jqozgfnta4o5s_7yt_qtt.co.uk
They do. Followed shortly after by people rushing off the train.
Are these scheduled trains, or are they untimetabled extras going to
Gordon Hill? If I showed up at Old Street for an infrequent service to
The train was going to gordon hill but whether it was timetabled or not I
couldn't say.
Roughly what time did they leave Moorgate, and was it Sat/Sun/Other?
Around 2.30 on friday afternoon.
There are no scheduled Gordon Hill terminators leaving Moorgate between
0825 and 1625, so it's an extra and can stop and skip where it likes.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Robert Forster - 2019 - Inferno
Roland Perry
2019-05-25 15:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to
Stevenage on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of replacement
bus times.
There's long term engineering works near Stevenage, and I think the
replacement buses run "on demand".
Post by Basil Jet
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth,
Wouldn't that involve a reversal at Stevenage?
Post by Basil Jet
but they can't be arsed.
Or the track's not available.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2019-05-25 17:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to
Stevenage on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of
replacement bus times.
There's long term engineering works near Stevenage, and I think the
replacement buses run "on demand".
Post by Basil Jet
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth,
Wouldn't that involve a reversal at Stevenage?
I meant Letchworth.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
but they can't be arsed.
Or the track's not available.
The track to sit around reversing at Stevenage is not available, but the
track to reverse at Letchworth was available a few years ago so I'm not
sure what's changed that justifies bustituting a branch for a year.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Pere Ubu - 1991 - Worlds In Collision
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-05-30 19:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to
Stevenage on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of replacement
bus times.
There's long term engineering works near Stevenage, and I think the
replacement buses run "on demand".
Post by Basil Jet
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth,
Wouldn't that involve a reversal at Stevenage?
Post by Basil Jet
but they can't be arsed.
Or the track's not available.
Google suggests there are three trains after midnight, which suggests that
the track is present and correct.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Roland Perry
2019-05-31 05:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to
Stevenage on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of replacement
bus times.
There's long term engineering works near Stevenage, and I think the
replacement buses run "on demand".
Post by Basil Jet
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth,
Wouldn't that involve a reversal at Stevenage?
Post by Basil Jet
but they can't be arsed.
Or the track's not available.
Google suggests there are three trains after midnight, which suggests that
the track is present and correct.
Enough to run a full service, during the day?
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2019-05-31 11:31:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to
Stevenage on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of replacement
bus times.
There's long term engineering works near Stevenage, and I think the
replacement buses run "on demand".
Post by Basil Jet
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth,
Wouldn't that involve a reversal at Stevenage?
Post by Basil Jet
but they can't be arsed.
Or the track's not available.
Google suggests there are three trains after midnight, which suggests that
the track is present and correct.
Enough to run a full service, during the day?
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Simple Kid - 2003 - SK1
Roland Perry
2019-05-31 13:45:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Incidentally, Watton-At-Stone now has practically no trains to
Stevenage on Monday to Fridays. The GBNRTT gives no hint of replacement
bus times.
There's long term engineering works near Stevenage, and I think the
replacement buses run "on demand".
Post by Basil Jet
There are no shortage of electric trains sitting around unused that
could run an hourly shuttle from Watton to Knebworth,
Wouldn't that involve a reversal at Stevenage?
Post by Basil Jet
but they can't be arsed.
Or the track's not available.
Google suggests there are three trains after midnight, which
suggests that
the track is present and correct.
Enough to run a full service, during the day?
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2019-05-31 14:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Simple Kid - 2003 - SK1
Roland Perry
2019-05-31 14:38:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
If that's the case, I've misconstrued the following reason posted by GN:

"We are providing rail replacement bus services while Network
Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the track
that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves the
construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the track,
signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
Watton-at-Stone.

This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run more
trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."

Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
--
Roland Perry
Certes
2019-05-31 15:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
"We are providing rail replacement bus services while Network
Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the track
that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves the
construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the track,
signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
Watton-at-Stone.
This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run more
trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."
Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
What that may mean is:
"We have reallocated your platform to more important customers.
You can have your trains back when we build an extra platform
next year."
Roland Perry
2019-05-31 15:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
"We are providing rail replacement bus services while Network
Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the track
that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves the
construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the track,
signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
Watton-at-Stone.
This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run more
trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."
Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
"We have reallocated your platform to more important customers.
You can have your trains back when we build an extra platform
next year."
Which involves closing the branch for engineering work. Chicken, meet
egg.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2019-05-31 19:32:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
  Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
 If that's the case, I've misconstrued the following reason posted by
          "We are providing rail replacement bus services while Network
         Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the
track
         that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
         further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves the
         construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the
track,
         signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
         Watton-at-Stone.
          This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run more
         trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."
 Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
      "We have reallocated your platform to more important customers.
      You can have your trains back when we build an extra platform
      next year."
Which involves closing the branch for engineering work. Chicken, meet egg.
Except that the extra platform was supposed to be in use when the extra
trains started. They delayed the extra platform but chose not to delay
the extra trains.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Simple Kid - 2003 - SK1
Roland Perry
2019-06-01 06:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
  Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
 If that's the case, I've misconstrued the following reason posted
          "We are providing rail replacement bus services while Network
         Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the
track
         that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
         further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves
         construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the
track,
         signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
         Watton-at-Stone.
          This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run more
         trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."
 Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
      "We have reallocated your platform to more important customers.
      You can have your trains back when we build an extra platform
      next year."
Which involves closing the branch for engineering work. Chicken, meet egg.
Except that the extra platform was supposed to be in use when the extra
trains started. They delayed the extra platform but chose not to delay
the extra trains.
Could they have built the platform and connecting tracks, without
causing disruption to the service to Watton-on-Stone earlier (genuine
question).

In other news I see that GN are claiming credit for their team having
built the new carriage berthing facility at Cambridge. Not Network Rail?
https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/1129452376216231937
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-06-01 06:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Certes
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
"We are providing rail replacement bus services while
Network
Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the track
that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves the
construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the track,
signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
Watton-at-Stone.
This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run
more
trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."
Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
"We have reallocated your platform to more important customers.
You can have your trains back when we build an extra platform
next year."
Which involves closing the branch for engineering work. Chicken, meet
egg.
Does it, though? Presumably if it was closed for engineering works they
wouldn’t reopen it for three trains after midnight and four trains before
0630 every day, and an hourly service at weekends.

The service appears to run single line from a crossover between
Watton-at-stone and Langley Junction, passing under the mainline to the
down side and terminating in the down slow platform at Stevenage, from
where it reverses and runs along the down slow in the up direction to
Langley Jn and back under the mainline, continuing wrong line as far as the
crossover mentioned earlier (which incidentally appears to be where the
Watton-at-stone terminators run to, to reverse.

The new platform at Stevenage will be on the down side, and it appears that
the new line will be adjacent to the down slow from Langley Jn to Stevenage
station. The current working arrangements will otherwise unchanged, I think
(ie running single line from the crossover).

Clearly installing the connection between the branch and the new line will
involve a possession, but not every weekday daytime for 18 months, no
matter how slow you work. It’s only one set of points.

The work must be being done without closing the down slow as that’s in use
throughout.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Roland Perry
2019-06-01 06:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Certes
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Is bustituting an entire line on weekdays just so they can run more
trains on a different one a year before the paths to run both were
available unprecedented?
Not sure what element of that is the core of you question. Doing
engineering works ahead of time, or works on a main line needing an
adjacent branch line to be closed to facilitate it.
They're not closing the branch for engineering work. They're closing it
because they've stolen its weekday paths to strengthen services on the
main line.
"We are providing rail replacement bus services while
Network
Rail complete a major upgrade to Stevenage station and the track
that connects Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone and destinations
further south on the Hertford Loop. This upgrade involves the
construction of a new fifth platform at Stevenage and the track,
signalling and other infrastructure required to connect it to
Watton-at-Stone.
This major upgrade will mean that Great Northern can run
more
trains per hour between Stevenage and Watton-at-Stone."
Is it possible that closing the branch line connection for the reasons
they give has *incidentally* released some main line paths which are
useful to LNER ahead of re-timing the whole line for IEP running and KGX
throat upgrade from 2020 (when the branch line reopens for normal
business)?
"We have reallocated your platform to more important customers.
You can have your trains back when we build an extra platform
next year."
Which involves closing the branch for engineering work. Chicken, meet
egg.
Does it, though? Presumably if it was closed for engineering works they
wouldn’t reopen it for three trains after midnight and four trains before
0630 every day, and an hourly service at weekends.
The service appears to run single line from a crossover between
Watton-at-stone and Langley Junction, passing under the mainline to the
down side and terminating in the down slow platform at Stevenage, from
where it reverses and runs along the down slow in the up direction to
Langley Jn and back under the mainline, continuing wrong line as far as the
crossover mentioned earlier (which incidentally appears to be where the
Watton-at-stone terminators run to, to reverse.
The new platform at Stevenage will be on the down side, and it appears that
the new line will be adjacent to the down slow from Langley Jn to Stevenage
station. The current working arrangements will otherwise unchanged, I think
(ie running single line from the crossover).
Clearly installing the connection between the branch and the new line will
involve a possession, but not every weekday daytime for 18 months, no
matter how slow you work. It’s only one set of points.
The work must be being done without closing the down slow as that’s in use
throughout.
In other words - yes I have misconstrued GN's spin in their announcement
above.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2019-06-01 08:40:51 UTC
Permalink
if it was closed for engineering works they wouldn’t reopen it for
three trains after midnight and four trains before 0630 every day,
Those sound like stock positioning moves, which they also schedule for
passenger service.
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-06-01 09:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
if it was closed for engineering works they wouldn’t reopen it for
three trains after midnight and four trains before 0630 every day,
Those sound like stock positioning moves, which they also schedule for
passenger service.
However it means the line is open and available during those hours. If it
wasn’t, they’d have to go the long way round.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Roland Perry
2019-06-01 09:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
if it was closed for engineering works they wouldn’t reopen it for
three trains after midnight and four trains before 0630 every day,
Those sound like stock positioning moves, which they also schedule for
passenger service.
However it means the line is open and available during those hours. If it
wasn’t, they’d have to go the long way round.
It's the GA announcement which gave the impression the line was closed
(for engineering) during the periods buses were being supplied.

"[because of] a major upgrade to ... the track that connects
Stevenage with Watton-at-Stone"
--
Roland Perry
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