Discussion:
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark Hill's new footbridge
(too old to reply)
Basil Jet
2021-10-18 15:26:56 UTC
Permalink
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.

But the new footbridge halfway along the platforms is held up by groups
of five vertical cylindrical pipes, where one of the pipes is smaller
and feeds into a drain grille, presumably carrying rainwater. The other
four go straight into the ground. I don't think the four are structural,
because they are between two large cuboidal pipes which presumably hold
all the weight. There is no machinery or anything on top of the pipes,
so I have no idea what they do.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1980 - I Need Two Heads (vinyl) - The Go-Betweens
R***@watershipdown.co.uk
2021-10-20 08:17:34 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
Roland Perry
2021-10-20 09:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
Since when were councils responsible for demolishing railway stations?
--
Roland Perry
R***@watershipdown.co.uk
2021-10-20 09:19:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:08:54 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
Since when were councils responsible for demolishing railway stations?
Where did I say they were? But they're now responsible for the land, not
network rail.
Roland Perry
2021-10-20 11:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:08:54 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
Since when were councils responsible for demolishing railway stations?
Where did I say they were? But they're now responsible for the land, not
network rail.
Do they own it, or are they simply responsible for agreeing planning
permission for a suitable use, if a developer spots a commercial
opportunity?
--
Roland Perry
R***@watershipdown.co.uk
2021-10-20 14:41:23 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 12:38:29 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 10:08:54 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
Since when were councils responsible for demolishing railway stations?
Where did I say they were? But they're now responsible for the land, not
network rail.
Do they own it, or are they simply responsible for agreeing planning
permission for a suitable use, if a developer spots a commercial
opportunity?
My mistake. After some digging it seems it was owned by the BRB then flogged
to NR to build a car park and they've sat on it for the last 9 years doing
nothing.

https://railfuture.org.uk/Background+to+the+Uckfield+Lewes+campaign

Now with covid having reduced passenger numbers its probably got another decade
of rich years ahead of it going to seed.
Marland
2021-10-20 09:52:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?

Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.

GH
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-10-20 10:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I guess if the closure was happening now, the old building would have
become something like a Wetherspoons or a restaurant. And the new building
would probably be better.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Graeme Wall
2021-10-20 13:30:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I guess if the closure was happening now, the old building would have
become something like a Wetherspoons
Demolition may be the kinder option!
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Arthur Figgis
2021-10-20 18:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I guess if the closure was happening now, the old building would have
become something like a Wetherspoons
Demolition may be the kinder option!
Uckfield could do with a decent pub (and politics aside, 'Spoons can do
a good job).
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Graeme Wall
2021-10-20 18:37:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I guess if the closure was happening now, the old building would have
become something like a Wetherspoons
Demolition may be the kinder option!
Uckfield could do with a decent pub (and politics aside, 'Spoons can do
a good job).
Not any more IME, standards have gone way down. A pity because they have
preserved some very fine buildings. The one in Guildford is Britain's
first purpose built car factory for instance.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
m***@round-midnight.org.uk
2021-10-20 20:05:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I guess if the closure was happening now, the old building would have
become something like a Wetherspoons
Demolition may be the kinder option!
Uckfield could do with a decent pub (and politics aside, 'Spoons can do
a good job).
Spoons always do an excellent job of converting old buildings into their
pubs. They retain as much of the old features as they can and always
have historic photographs of the building on display.

Where else can you have a meal in an old film vault?
Recliner
2021-10-20 20:49:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@round-midnight.org.uk
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I guess if the closure was happening now, the old building would have
become something like a Wetherspoons
Demolition may be the kinder option!
Uckfield could do with a decent pub (and politics aside, 'Spoons can do
a good job).
Spoons always do an excellent job of converting old buildings into their
pubs. They retain as much of the old features as they can and always
have historic photographs of the building on display.
Where else can you have a meal in an old film vault?
I agree. They do an excellent job of converting unloved old buildings,
preserving as much as they can. The food is not only very cheap, but
surprisingly good, and one of my local 'Spoons pubs will shortly have 10
festival ales on, at £1.99 a pint (available in 1/3 pint taster pints at no
extra cost). The app is also a pretty good piece of IT, with realtime stock
levels in every pub, and slick at-table ordering.
Graeme Wall
2021-10-20 13:29:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2021-10-20 13:34:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Boris already said they wouldn't confiscate old gas boilers, so what's
new in terms of back-tracking?
--
Roland Perry
Tweed
2021-10-20 14:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Boris already said they wouldn't confiscate old gas boilers, so what's
new in terms of back-tracking?
As far as I can see, the most sensible option would be to build sufficient
nukes such that direct electrical heating is economically viable. The real
world efficiency of heat pumps isn’t anywhere near as the optimistic
figures quoted, and they aren’t practical for very many properties.
Marland
2021-10-20 14:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
TBH I don’t think they had stated that they were going to be compulsory
forced on people yet,
but if other options like new gas boilers , solid fuel fires , oil boilers
get prohibited then people are going to run out of options to keep their
homes warm.

GH
NY
2021-10-20 14:34:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
TBH I don’t think they had stated that they were going to be compulsory
forced on people yet,
but if other options like new gas boilers , solid fuel fires , oil boilers
get prohibited then people are going to run out of options to keep their
homes warm.
Thankfully we had a new boiler fitted only 18 months ago, triggered by a hot
water cylinder which sprang a leak and the heating engineer said "your
boiler is on its last legs too" so we opted to replace it with a combi that
fed mains-pressure hot water rather than a cylinder fed by a tank only a few
feed above the level of the bath.

So hopefully that will last us a good long time before it needs replacing
again - at which point I suppose we'll have to go for a heat pump which is
more expensive to run and to supply/install. As long as it remains a means
of heating hot water to circulate in radiators, it will be OK, but some heat
pumps will only work with ducted-air heating, and my parents' experience of
that (albeit with early 1970s technology) is that it is CRAP: it fed a
feeble draft of tepid air out of the ducts which stirred up dust in the room
but did very little to keep the house warm.

We've got several years of wood (branches that we've cut down and cut into
logs) that we can use on our wood-burning stove - and, yes, it will be
properly seasoned by the time we come to use each "batch" of logs. That
helps to keep the gas bill down. But there will come a day when *any* free
source of energy will be illegal, and the only source of energy for
cooking/heating will be electricity - thereby putting all your eggs in one
basket. I'm waiting for the day when "they" find that having your own solar
panels on the roof or wind turbine (free after the initial capital outlay)
is harmful to the environment. ;-)
Roland Perry
2021-10-20 16:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by NY
Post by Marland
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
TBH I don’t think they had stated that they were going to be compulsory
forced on people yet,
but if other options like new gas boilers , solid fuel fires , oil boilers
get prohibited then people are going to run out of options to keep their
homes warm.
Thankfully we had a new boiler fitted only 18 months ago, triggered by
a hot water cylinder which sprang a leak and the heating engineer said
"your boiler is on its last legs too" so we opted to replace it with a
combi that fed mains-pressure hot water rather than a cylinder fed by a
tank only a few feed above the level of the bath.
So hopefully that will last us a good long time before it needs
replacing again - at which point I suppose we'll have to go for a heat
pump which is more expensive to run and to supply/install. As long as
it remains a means of heating hot water to circulate in radiators, it
will be OK,
Although you probably need to replace the pipes with 22mm, and microbore
would be out completely.
Post by NY
but some heat pumps will only work with ducted-air heating, and my
parents' experience of that (albeit with early 1970s technology) is
that it is CRAP: it fed a feeble draft of tepid air out of the ducts
which stirred up dust in the room but did very little to keep the house
warm.
100% agreed. Although they do use it a lot in the USA, albeit with
massive gas-fired boilers.
Post by NY
We've got several years of wood (branches that we've cut down and cut
into logs) that we can use on our wood-burning stove - and, yes, it
will be properly seasoned by the time we come to use each "batch" of
logs. That helps to keep the gas bill down.
But there will come a day when *any* free source of energy will be
illegal,
Is that a "tax it or ban it" conspiracy theory?
Post by NY
and the only source of energy for cooking/heating will be electricity -
thereby putting all your eggs in one basket. I'm waiting for the day
when "they" find that having your own solar panels on the roof or wind
turbine (free after the initial capital outlay) is harmful to the
environment. ;-)
Absolutely. Like nuclear, the *de*commissioning costs will be looked at
unfavourably :)
--
Roland Perry
Marland
2021-10-20 16:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by NY
We've got several years of wood (branches that we've cut down and cut into
logs) that we can use on our wood-burning stove - and, yes, it will be
properly seasoned by the time we come to use each "batch" of logs. That
helps to keep the gas bill down. But there will come a day when *any* free
source of energy will be illegal, and the only source of energy for
cooking/heating will be electricity - thereby putting all your eggs in one
basket.
There are already pressure groups out to get us, its the boiling Frog
situation where things are made more difficult progressively .
This is one of the latest who want to stick thier oar in.

<https://www.mumsforlungs.org/our-campaigns/wood-burning>

GH
Chris J Dixon
2021-10-20 14:24:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.
Graeme Wall
2021-10-20 14:29:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
That is going to go down well at the ballot box.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2021-10-20 15:40:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
Yes, I thought that was the plan. One loophole that may be available is to
buy hydrogen-convertible natural gas boilers. These are likely to remain
available after natural gas boilers are banned.
Tweed
2021-10-20 15:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
Yes, I thought that was the plan. One loophole that may be available is to
buy hydrogen-convertible natural gas boilers. These are likely to remain
available after natural gas boilers are banned.
It’s all going to depend on how the hydrogen is produced. If it comes from
electricity generation we might as well have direct electric heating.
R***@watershipdown.co.uk
2021-10-20 16:06:36 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 15:54:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
Yes, I thought that was the plan. One loophole that may be available is to
buy hydrogen-convertible natural gas boilers. These are likely to remain
available after natural gas boilers are banned.
It’s all going to depend on how the hydrogen is produced. If it comes from
electricity generation we might as well have direct electric heating.
Indeed. You'd have thought someone would have had a quiet word in Boris's ear
by now and told him that H2 is a diabolical method of energy transfer not to
mention somewhat more explosive than methane and lot more leaky.
Jeremy Double
2021-10-20 19:40:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 15:54:39 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
Yes, I thought that was the plan. One loophole that may be available is to
buy hydrogen-convertible natural gas boilers. These are likely to remain
available after natural gas boilers are banned.
It’s all going to depend on how the hydrogen is produced. If it comes from
electricity generation we might as well have direct electric heating.
Indeed. You'd have thought someone would have had a quiet word in Boris's ear
by now and told him that H2 is a diabolical method of energy transfer not to
mention somewhat more explosive than methane and lot more leaky.
It’s not as simple as that. Hydrogen has wider explosive limits and a
lower energy of ignition, so on both these counts it is a bit more
dangerous than natural gas. But a hydrogen escape in the open air is
probably not very dangerous because of its extreme buoyancy in air. And
don’t forget that before the late-1960s/early-1970s we all used to use
towns gas, which had a high hydrogen content…
--
Jeremy Double
R***@watershipdown.co.uk
2021-10-21 09:06:22 UTC
Permalink
On 20 Oct 2021 19:40:38 GMT
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
Indeed. You'd have thought someone would have had a quiet word in Boris's
ear
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
by now and told him that H2 is a diabolical method of energy transfer not to
mention somewhat more explosive than methane and lot more leaky.
It’s not as simple as that. Hydrogen has wider explosive limits and a
lower energy of ignition, so on both these counts it is a bit more
dangerous than natural gas. But a hydrogen escape in the open air is
probably not very dangerous because of its extreme buoyancy in air. And
I guess that depends on whether it stays together as a blob of H2 gas or the
extra bouyancy simply means it mixes a lot faster with air to produce an
explosive mixture.
don’t forget that before the late-1960s/early-1970s we all used to use
towns gas, which had a high hydrogen content

A bit before my time but it was probably a trade off between that or going
back to coal and 1950s style smogs.
Recliner
2021-10-20 16:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tweed
Post by Recliner
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
Yes, I thought that was the plan. One loophole that may be available is to
buy hydrogen-convertible natural gas boilers. These are likely to remain
available after natural gas boilers are banned.
It’s all going to depend on how the hydrogen is produced. If it comes from
electricity generation we might as well have direct electric heating.
Hydrogen is as much an energy storage as transmission mechanism. Big
investments are going into green hydrogen. For example:
<https://www.ineos.com/news/ineos-group/ineos-announces-over-2-billion-investment-in-green-hydrogen-production/>
Tweed
2021-10-20 16:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Tweed
Post by Recliner
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Graeme Wall
I see the guvmint is now back-tracking and saying nobody will be forced
to have a heat pump.
Won't they simply outlaw alternatives, so you are OK until your
current equipment fails?
Yes, I thought that was the plan. One loophole that may be available is to
buy hydrogen-convertible natural gas boilers. These are likely to remain
available after natural gas boilers are banned.
It’s all going to depend on how the hydrogen is produced. If it comes from
electricity generation we might as well have direct electric heating.
Hydrogen is as much an energy storage as transmission mechanism. Big
<https://www.ineos.com/news/ineos-group/ineos-announces-over-2-billion-investment-in-green-hydrogen-production/>
I can see hydrogen has its uses - a feedstock for the production of
synthetic jet fuel for example. I’m not so convinced that using it for
domestic heating is such a good idea. A domestic thermal store is probably
a better way of shifting electrical demand from peak hours. How much
hydrogen can you practically store at scale? If you store enough to smooth
out a 14 day high pressure loss of wind generation then perhaps it has a
use.
R***@watershipdown.co.uk
2021-10-20 14:35:56 UTC
Permalink
On 20 Oct 2021 09:52:55 GMT
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Agreed. But there was no need to demolish the building. They left it for
years to rot then when it got a bit wet during some heavy rain demolished it.
Thankfully the generation that didn't give a toss about heritage is pretty
much retired or dead so hopefully that sort of thing won't happen again. At
least on that scale.
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
As someone who lives in a victorian terrace house and has seen the built by
a drunken irishman walls under the plaster I'm amazed it lasted more than
20 years never mind 120. If there was ever even a modest earthquake in this
part of the world my house and most of the street would probably collapse
in seconds.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-10-20 18:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On 20 Oct 2021 09:52:55 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Agreed. But there was no need to demolish the building. They left it for
years to rot then when it got a bit wet during some heavy rain demolished it.
Thankfully the generation that didn't give a toss about heritage is pretty
much retired or dead so hopefully that sort of thing won't happen again. At
least on that scale.
Google "Ayr Station Hotel".


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Graeme Wall
2021-10-20 18:19:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On 20 Oct 2021 09:52:55 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by R***@watershipdown.co.uk
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 16:26:56 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
I visited Denmark Hill station for the first time in years last night.
The old part of the station, which I used to think was pretty special,
seems to have been completely given over to a pub and a cafe. The new
station is very functional and disappointing.
Par for ther course these days but at least the station building is still
there. Uckfield had a lovely old victoria station but it got flattened and
replaced by a glorified bus shelter across the road. The site of the old
station has been a wasteland for 20 years now. Moron council.
wasn’t that to get rid of a level crossing?
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Agreed. But there was no need to demolish the building. They left it for
years to rot then when it got a bit wet during some heavy rain demolished it.
Thankfully the generation that didn't give a toss about heritage is pretty
much retired or dead so hopefully that sort of thing won't happen again. At
least on that scale.
Google "Ayr Station Hotel".
Compulsary Purchase Order would seem to to be the simple offer.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Theo
2021-10-22 20:05:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marland
Once the line was curtailed there eliminating movements over a busy road
was probably a sensible move.
Shame the new stop was done so basically but it was par for the course for
cash strapped British Rail.
The old station looked nice externally but in reality was probably too big
for what was now just a commuter railway with defunct rooms rotting away
and costly to maintain and old Victorian stations
are not something the country is short of. You can’t save them all and the
natural life of a building
tends to be about 150 years before extensive expenditure is needed , the
vast stock of housing built around the late 1800’s that this country has is
a ticking time bomb and even after spending lots of money on many still
won’t reach the standard of insulation etc that the politicians and the
green movement rightly or wrongly are driving us to.
Will it be heat pumps forced on people soon and once that is shown not to
be successful a programme of compulsory purchase and demolition.
I pitched up in Uckfield in 1992 or so - an abortive attempt to visit the
Bluebell railway by train on a Sunday afternoon where, in those pre internet
days and without any local public transport info for an area that wasn't
your own, you went to the end of the line and hoped there would be a bus.
There wasn't a bus.

Anyway, the consolation prize was a look in the old station. As I recall it
was the Red Star Parcels office and there was somebody in the office who
told us that there was no bus. There were some weedy tracks in the
platforms but the tracks were still extant, suggesting it wasn't long
disused.

But the station building itself wasn't a lot to write home about - it was
roughly similar to a lot of rural stations - a waiting room capable of
holding three or four benches, a ticket office, probably some other rooms
like toilets and so on. It wasn't really very big and probably wouldn't
have converted to anything very well, beyond say offices.

Here's a picture:
Loading Image...
taken from the road that goes over the level crossing. As I recall the
office was in the middle door and then on the left, but my memory could be
faulty.

Theo

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