Discussion:
class 710 first day
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2019-05-25 09:01:15 UTC
Permalink
I think the new trains look much smarter, but it's a pity that the seats
haven't been improved to, say, even S stock standards, let alone the much
higher standards that prevailed in the 1970s.

I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Recliner
2019-05-25 09:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
I think the new trains look much smarter, but it's a pity that the seats
haven't been improved to, say, even S stock standards, let alone the much
higher standards that prevailed in the 1970s.
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Resilience, possibly? New trains with new software, it might make sense
to bed them down in service?
Perhaps, though they've been test running them for many months, both off
and on the Goblin. They were given ORR authority to enter service on April
11, so about six weeks before they did, finally, carry passengers. One
would have thought that several could have been accumulating mileage during
that time. Perhaps only two did so without problems?

As this soft introduction was without fanfare, I suppose it was still a bit
tentative, so perhaps they still don't have much faith in the new trains?
Mike Bristow
2019-05-28 12:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.

So either the problem isn't driver training, or my guess as to how
many drivers would be required is wrong.

Cheers,
Mike
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
2019-05-28 14:10:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 28 May 2019 13:56:28 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.
Are these drivers driving 378s on the NLL in the interim or are they being paid
to just sit at home and watch Cash in the Attic like the crossrail ones?
Mike Bristow
2019-05-28 15:43:18 UTC
Permalink
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.transport.london.]
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
On Tue, 28 May 2019 13:56:28 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.
Are these drivers driving 378s on the NLL in the interim or are they being paid
to just sit at home and watch Cash in the Attic like the crossrail ones?
They cover the NLL too, according to the video.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Recliner
2019-06-01 10:06:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Bristow
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.transport.london.]
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
On Tue, 28 May 2019 13:56:28 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.
Are these drivers driving 378s on the NLL in the interim or are they being paid
to just sit at home and watch Cash in the Attic like the crossrail ones?
They cover the NLL too, according to the video.
Having now watched Geoff's video, I was surprised just how many drivers
need to be trained in order to operate the six 710 diagrams.
Recliner
2019-06-01 10:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.transport.london.]
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
On Tue, 28 May 2019 13:56:28 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are several
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them yet?
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.
Are these drivers driving 378s on the NLL in the interim or are they being paid
to just sit at home and watch Cash in the Attic like the crossrail ones?
They cover the NLL too, according to the video.
Having now watched Geoff's video, I was surprised just how many drivers
need to be trained in order to operate the six 710 diagrams.
Not just for the Goblin.
The six diagrams are just for the Goblin. The 710s aren't being deployed to
other lines until the Goblin is fully switched over to 710s.

Basically, the Goblin doesn't have its own driver pool, so all the hundreds
of Stratford drivers need to be trained on 710s, which takes quite a while,
even running three courses a day, seven days a week.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2019-06-02 08:11:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.transport.london.]
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
On Tue, 28 May 2019 13:56:28 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are
several
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them
yet?
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
Post by Mike Bristow
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.
Are these drivers driving 378s on the NLL in the interim or are they
being paid
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
to just sit at home and watch Cash in the Attic like the crossrail ones?
They cover the NLL too, according to the video.
Having now watched Geoff's video, I was surprised just how many drivers
need to be trained in order to operate the six 710 diagrams.
Not just for the Goblin.
The six diagrams are just for the Goblin. The 710s aren't being deployed to
other lines until the Goblin is fully switched over to 710s.
Basically, the Goblin doesn't have its own driver pool, so all the hundreds
of Stratford drivers need to be trained on 710s, which takes quite a while,
even running three courses a day, seven days a week.
Seems a bit excessive. Surely they could just select a subsection of them
to train on the 710s.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2019-06-03 09:07:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
["Followup-To:" header set to uk.transport.london.]
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
On Tue, 28 May 2019 13:56:28 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
I'm curious why only two 710s were introduced yesterday. There are
several
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
more sitting in Willesden, and there's been ample time to update their
software. Could it be that not enough drivers have qualified on them
yet?
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
Post by Mike Bristow
Lack of driver training is the reason I heard. It suprises me, as
with only 6 trains required for the service, I'd expect you to need
no more than 30 drivers trained on the new trains - and Geoff's 710
intro video said that there were 70 drivers trained.
Are these drivers driving 378s on the NLL in the interim or are they
being paid
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@1bqgnk3nqu.com
to just sit at home and watch Cash in the Attic like the crossrail ones?
They cover the NLL too, according to the video.
Having now watched Geoff's video, I was surprised just how many drivers
need to be trained in order to operate the six 710 diagrams.
Not just for the Goblin.
The six diagrams are just for the Goblin. The 710s aren't being deployed to
other lines until the Goblin is fully switched over to 710s.
Basically, the Goblin doesn't have its own driver pool, so all the hundreds
of Stratford drivers need to be trained on 710s, which takes quite a while,
even running three courses a day, seven days a week.
Seems a bit excessive. Surely they could just select a subsection of them
to train on the 710s.
I’m sure you’d be among the first to complain when a train is cancelled
because all of the trained drivers are either being used or unavailable,
while drivers not trained on 710s are available.

I’d imagine that over time, all appropriate drivers will be trained. For
the beginning of service, "sufficient" drivers will be trained and shifts,
diagrams etc juggled to cover the service. As steadily more drivers are
trained, the job of rostering/resourcing to cover the service becomes
easier.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2019-06-03 09:29:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 09:07:46 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Seems a bit excessive. Surely they could just select a subsection of them
to train on the 710s.
I’m sure you’d be among the first to complain when a train is cancelled
because all of the trained drivers are either being used or unavailable,
while drivers not trained on 710s are available.
Thats just down to rostering. Do you think every pilot in every airline is
trained on every single type of plane they fly?

Quite why different trains require in depth training anyway is a mystery to me.
They only go forwards and backwards. And afternoon to learn the controls and
where the fuses are, done.

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