Discussion:
TfL begs Whitehall for £2bn cv19 bailout
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2020-05-10 08:06:27 UTC
Permalink
From
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/transport-for-london-begs-whitehall-for-2bn-coronavirus-bailout-vll3xxjvt>

Big upgrades to the London transport system could be delayed or ditched in
return for a £2bn bailout to keep the Tube and buses running.

Transport for London (TfL) is locked in increasingly desperate talks with
the government over a cash lifeline for the capital’s network after the
Covid-19 lockdown wiped out revenues.

TfL is down to its last £1bn, which is being burnt at a rate of £21m a day
— leaving it less than two months from emptying its coffers and
illustrating the intense pressure on local authority finances.

The capital’s network, which reports to Labour mayor Sadiq Khan, has been
crippled by the pandemic. The Tube normally carries up to five million
passengers a day, but has lost 95% of them. Bus use is down 85%.




A bailout for TfL is likely to come with strict conditions, clipping its
wings on ambitious projects such as a multibillionpound extension to the
Bakerloo line. Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial
fares freeze.

However, the Treasury and Department for Transport (DfT) have little choice
but to continue to pump in funds because of the risk of the capital
grinding to a complete halt. TfL has debts of about £12bn and spends more
than £400m a year on interest charges. Its debt rating was downgraded by
ratings agency Fitch last month.

TfL will remain under intense financial pressure even when the lockdown is
eased. It faces a revenue gap of £5bn to £7bn over 18 months. If social
distancing of two metres remains in place, Tube trains would be able to
carry only about 15% of their normal capacity, meaning a Victoria line
carriage could carry just 21 people rather than 125. Instead of 325,000
people boarding the Tube every 15 minutes, 50,000 would be allowed.

TfL was already in financial trouble before the pandemic as delays and
overspends on the new Crossrail line and falling bus use blew a hole in its
budget. It has been weaned off a government grant in recent years, erasing
about £800m of funds and leaving it largely reliant on commercial income
and fares.

Sources said the prospect of heightened Westminster scrutiny in return for
a bailout had caused tension between City Hall and the government. Khan was
controversially refused admittance to the government’s emergency Cobra
committee in the weeks before the lockdown.

TfL declined to comment on specific details, but said that it was facing a
“substantial reduction in income over a period of months”.
Roland Perry
2020-05-10 08:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.

Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-05-10 08:23:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
He promised it for his four year term, which ended last week (yes, last
Thursday should have been election day, including the general election, had
May not tried to increase her majority in 2017). TfL has been budgeting for
increased fares from January 2021:

<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/12/17/tfl-expects-mayors-fare-freeze-to-end-in-2021/>
Roland Perry
2020-05-10 09:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
He promised it for his four year term, which ended last week
So the controversy was the length of freeze?
Post by Recliner
(yes, last Thursday should have been election day,
Would have made for some interesting campaigning about whether he was
going to broadly renew, or renew with a slightly more honest
description, or more transparent budget impact, or something.
Post by Recliner
including the general election, had May not tried to increase her
majority in 2017). TfL has been budgeting for increased fares from
<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2019/12/17/tfl-expects-mayors-fare-fre
eze-to-end-in-2021/>
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2020-05-10 12:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
He promised it for his four year term, which ended last week
So the controversy was the length of freeze?
Post by Recliner
(yes, last Thursday should have been election day,
Would have made for some interesting campaigning about whether he was
going to broadly renew, or renew with a slightly more honest description,
or more transparent budget impact, or something.
he's seen as a shoe-in

The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate

Even before he backed out, I don't believe Rory had enough support to win

tim
Roland Perry
2020-05-10 12:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
He promised it for his four year term, which ended last week
So the controversy was the length of freeze?
Post by Recliner
(yes, last Thursday should have been election day,
Would have made for some interesting campaigning about whether he was
going to broadly renew, or renew with a slightly more honest
description, or more transparent budget impact, or something.
he's seen as a shoe-in
Still needs a manifesto, and scrutiny of his claims. Something we now
know needs much more effort when it comes to transport fares.
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2020-05-10 12:53:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
He promised it for his four year term, which ended last week
So the controversy was the length of freeze?
Post by Recliner
(yes, last Thursday should have been election day,
Would have made for some interesting campaigning about whether he was
going to broadly renew, or renew with a slightly more honest
description,  or more transparent budget impact, or something.
he's seen as a shoe-in
Still needs a manifesto, and scrutiny of his claims. Something we now
know needs much more effort when it comes to transport fares.
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2020-05-10 13:42:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2020-05-10 16:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
 I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Ta,

Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-05-10 19:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
 I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Ta,
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
A track record that not likely to change next year…
tim...
2020-05-11 09:29:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Ta,
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
A track record that not likely to change next year…
he has "won" a London Assembly seat

tim
Graeme Wall
2020-05-11 16:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
 I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Ta,
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
A track record that not likely to change next year…
he has "won" a London Assembly seat
By default apparently.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
tim...
2020-05-11 19:51:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Ta,
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
A track record that not likely to change next year…
he has "won" a London Assembly seat
By default apparently.
Do you mean (as I did by putting win in quotes) that he got his seat via the
top-up list

That's not quite as trivial as it sounds, as you have to "win" your place in
the list via a vote of your own party, and if he were lower down he wouldn't
have got the seat

And you have to play that game smartly

It seems that it's not the thing to be on your party's top-up list whilst
also contesting an individual seat

so there's no point standing as a candidate in a no-hope seat if you can get
on the top-up list

I suspect that there's a real bun fight to get on the list of the three/four
"other" parties who have only ever won seats via the top-up, and not be
consigned to fighting a losing battle in a constituency

tim
Recliner
2020-05-11 20:03:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
 I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Ta,
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
A track record that not likely to change next year…
he has "won" a London Assembly seat
By default apparently.
Yes, I see he's an 'additional member', added from a party list to
maintain proportionality, rather than representing a constituency. So his
achievement was getting to third on the Tory party list, just high enough
to be among the three Tory additional members who qualified. He has the
luxury of not having to represent a constituency.
David Cantrell
2020-05-11 22:12:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
??I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
And if he continues to cultivate an image of being a bit of a bolshy
shit as he seems to have been deliberately doing over the last several
months then I can't see him doing well.
--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

Seven o'clock in the morning is something that
happens to those less fortunate than me
Recliner
2020-05-11 22:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Cantrell
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
??I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
I was reading: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51628623
Shaun Bailey doesn't appear to have had much success in elections.
And if he continues to cultivate an image of being a bit of a bolshy
shit as he seems to have been deliberately doing over the last several
months then I can't see him doing well.
I didn't realise he even had that much profile.

The London mayors and even the losing major party candidates till now have
all been MPs with a national presence. But even Londoners (including me)
know almost nothing about Shaun Bailey. It doesn't seem worth investing any
time finding out more.
David Cantrell
2020-05-13 08:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by David Cantrell
And if he continues to cultivate an image of being a bit of a bolshy
shit as he seems to have been deliberately doing over the last several
months then I can't see him doing well.
I didn't realise he even had that much profile.
The London mayors and even the losing major party candidates till now have
all been MPs with a national presence. But even Londoners (including me)
know almost nothing about Shaun Bailey. It doesn't seem worth investing any
time finding out more.
I only know of him because I like to keep tabs on local politicians
twitters even if they're from parties I don't normally vote for.
--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

For every vengeance, there is an equal and opposite revengeance.
-- Cartoon Law XI
tim...
2020-05-10 14:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
He promised it for his four year term, which ended last week
So the controversy was the length of freeze?
Post by Recliner
(yes, last Thursday should have been election day,
Would have made for some interesting campaigning about whether he was
going to broadly renew, or renew with a slightly more honest
description, or more transparent budget impact, or something.
he's seen as a shoe-in
Still needs a manifesto, and scrutiny of his claims. Something we now
know needs much more effort when it comes to transport fares.
Post by tim...
The Tories are putting up a paper tiger as their candidate
I have to say that Rory and Sadiq are the only two of the original
thirteen candidates I've ever heard of.
Who is the latest tory candidate?
Shaun Somebody - Bailey?

tim
Graeme Wall
2020-05-10 08:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial fares
freeze.
I hadn't heard that.
Controversial because it was seen as too loony-left, or controversial
because it wasn't nearly as much of a freeze as he claimed?
Controversial because Boris didn't think of it.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Graeme Wall
2020-05-10 08:30:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
A bailout for TfL is likely to come with strict conditions, clipping its
wings on ambitious projects such as a multibillionpound extension to the
Bakerloo line. Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial
fares freeze.
That was always a stupid policy, eventually you are going to have to
abandon it and the resultant sharp increase causes far more anger than
the low-level grumbling of regular annual increases. But then expecting
politicians to learn from past mistakes is always a forlorn hope.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-05-10 08:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
A bailout for TfL is likely to come with strict conditions, clipping its
wings on ambitious projects such as a multibillionpound extension to the
Bakerloo line. Khan, 49, has already been forced to ditch his controversial
fares freeze.
That was always a stupid policy, eventually you are going to have to
abandon it and the resultant sharp increase causes far more anger than
the low-level grumbling of regular annual increases. But then expecting
politicians to learn from past mistakes is always a forlorn hope.
Yup. He only did it as an election-winning promise, and a one-year freeze
would probably have been enough. As it turns out, he was gifted a
thoroughly inappropriate Tory opponent, and would easily have won the
election without that silly promise. Then, of course, surging Crossrail
fares were meant to fill TfL's depleted coffers, and we know what's
happened there.
tim...
2020-05-10 12:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
From
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/transport-for-london-begs-whitehall-for-2bn-coronavirus-bailout-vll3xxjvt>
Big upgrades to the London transport system could be delayed or ditched in
return for a £2bn bailout to keep the Tube and buses running.
Transport for London (TfL) is locked in increasingly desperate talks with
the government over a cash lifeline for the capital’s network after the
Covid-19 lockdown wiped out revenues.
TfL is down to its last £1bn, which is being burnt at a rate of £21m a day
— leaving it less than two months from emptying its coffers and
illustrating the intense pressure on local authority finances.
The capital’s network, which reports to Labour mayor Sadiq Khan, has been
crippled by the pandemic. The Tube normally carries up to five million
passengers a day, but has lost 95% of them. Bus use is down 85%.

A bailout for TfL is likely to come with strict conditions, clipping its
wings on ambitious projects such as a multibillionpound extension to the
Bakerloo line.
and yet we're going to keep the HS2 white elephant

tim
Graeme Wall
2020-05-10 12:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
From
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/transport-for-london-begs-whitehall-for-2bn-coronavirus-bailout-vll3xxjvt>
Big upgrades to the London transport system could be delayed or ditched in
return for a £2bn bailout to keep the Tube and buses running.
Transport for London (TfL) is locked in increasingly desperate talks with
the government over a cash lifeline for the capital’s network after the
Covid-19 lockdown wiped out revenues.
TfL is down to its last £1bn, which is being burnt at a rate of £21m a day
— leaving it less than two months from emptying its coffers and
illustrating the intense pressure on local authority finances.
The capital’s network, which reports to Labour mayor Sadiq Khan, has been
crippled by the pandemic. The Tube normally carries up to five million
passengers a day, but has lost 95% of them. Bus use is down 85%.

A bailout for TfL is likely to come with strict conditions, clipping its
wings on ambitious projects such as a multibillionpound extension to the
Bakerloo line.
and yet we're going to keep the HS2 white elephant
You are Sir William Wake and ICMFP.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
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