Discussion:
Drayton Park stock transfers
(too old to reply)
Trolleybus
2020-09-16 15:18:40 UTC
Permalink
I've just bought a BR Kings Cross suburban lines WTT from 1971. It
shows a path for stock transfers from Neasden to Drayton Park as
follows.

Neasden - Farringdon (CWL) - Barbican (CWL) - Farringdon (CWL) - Kings
Cross LT (CWL) - Kings Cross - Holloway South Down - Finsbury Park No.
2 - Finsbury Park No. 1 - Highbury Vale - Drayton Park.

The trips were topped and tailed by battery locos and contained at
most three cars of 1938TS. Maximum speed through CWL platforms was
5mph.

I know that by 1971 the usual stock moves route, diverging from the
ECML immediately north of Finsbury Park then on to Highgate, was
closed but I have questions about this path.

Neasden was a Bakerloo Line depot but the Drayton Park - Moorgate line
was advertised as being part of the Northern Line. Was it
operationally part of the Bakerloo (in the way that the ELL was
advertised as Met Line but was operated by, was it the District)? Or
was it worked as Northern Line but went for overhaul via Neasden to
Northern Line depots and Acton?
Robin9
2020-09-17 08:26:10 UTC
Permalink
I'm no authority on London Underground's work systems
but I was always under the impression the Drayton Park/
Moorgate service was operated as a self contained entity.

Obviously servicing and maintenance had to be done at some
other location so empty stock movements were bound to occur
and have no great significance


--
Robin9
Recliner
2020-09-17 09:38:23 UTC
Permalink
Robin9 <***@londonbanter.co.uk> wrote:
I'm no authority on London Underground's work systems
Post by Robin9
but I was always under the impression the Drayton Park/
Moorgate service was operated as a self contained entity.
Obviously servicing and maintenance had to be done at some
other location so empty stock movements were bound to occur
and have no great significance.
As a minor line, it probably came under the management of another line,
presumably the Northern, just as the Drain does today. But, as you say,
that wouldn't necessarily affect stock maintenance and transfers.
Trolleybus
2020-09-17 17:01:58 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:38:23 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Robin9
I'm no authority on London Underground's work systems
Post by Robin9
but I was always under the impression the Drayton Park/
Moorgate service was operated as a self contained entity.
Obviously servicing and maintenance had to be done at some
other location so empty stock movements were bound to occur
and have no great significance.
As a minor line, it probably came under the management of another line,
presumably the Northern, just as the Drain does today. But, as you say,
that wouldn't necessarily affect stock maintenance and transfers.
But did the maintenance depot change when they closed the direct
Finsbury Park to Highgate route? Up until then Highgate Depot or
another on the Northern was the obvious place to perform maintenance.
Peter Able
2020-09-18 17:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trolleybus
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:38:23 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Robin9
I'm no authority on London Underground's work systems
Post by Robin9
but I was always under the impression the Drayton Park/
Moorgate service was operated as a self contained entity.
Obviously servicing and maintenance had to be done at some
other location so empty stock movements were bound to occur
and have no great significance.
As a minor line, it probably came under the management of another line,
presumably the Northern, just as the Drain does today. But, as you say,
that wouldn't necessarily affect stock maintenance and transfers.
But did the maintenance depot change when they closed the direct
Finsbury Park to Highgate route? Up until then Highgate Depot or
another on the Northern was the obvious place to perform maintenance.
I doubt it. In the 1960s Highgate and Drayton Park were on a par with
Edgware - Minor Depots with some covered accommodation. Heavy work was
carried out at Neasden and Acton - I'd guess both before and after the
1972 track-lift.

PA
Trolleybus
2020-09-17 16:57:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:26:10 +0100, Robin9
Post by Robin9
I'm no authority on London Underground's work systems
but I was always under the impression the Drayton Park/
Moorgate service was operated as a self contained entity.
Obviously servicing and maintenance had to be done at some
other location so empty stock movements were bound to occur
and have no great significance.
Agreed, but this appears to be the only path for stock transfer
(unless anyone can think of one that didn't use any part of the Kings
Cross Suburban network) and was a path to Neasden. My question was
really, why Neasden as it was a Bakerloo depot and the GNCR was part
of the Northern Line.
Marland
2020-09-17 19:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trolleybus
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:26:10 +0100, Robin9
Post by Robin9
I'm no authority on London Underground's work systems
but I was always under the impression the Drayton Park/
Moorgate service was operated as a self contained entity.
Obviously servicing and maintenance had to be done at some
other location so empty stock movements were bound to occur
and have no great significance.
Agreed, but this appears to be the only path for stock transfer
(unless anyone can think of one that didn't use any part of the Kings
Cross Suburban network) and was a path to Neasden. My question was
really, why Neasden as it was a Bakerloo depot and the GNCR was part
of the Northern Line.
Before it became part of the Northern just before WW2 it had belonged to
the Metropolitan Railway.
I wonder if the original stock was overhauled at the Mets Neasden depot
after they acquired the line and when the line was converted to tube stock
the practise just continued?
The Bakerloo had only arrived at Neasden a few years before when it took
over the Mets Stanmore branch so conveniently there was an operation in
place that would have tube stock parts and expertise.

GH
Clive D.W. Feather
2020-09-18 22:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trolleybus
Neasden was a Bakerloo Line depot but the Drayton Park - Moorgate line
was advertised as being part of the Northern Line. Was it
operationally part of the Bakerloo (in the way that the ELL was
advertised as Met Line but was operated by, was it the District)? Or
was it worked as Northern Line but went for overhaul via Neasden to
Northern Line depots and Acton?
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Circle to Earl's Court, then Hammersmith (reverse), Piccadilly to
somewhere at the east end (reverse), back to King's Cross, then King's
Cross Loop to Euston (City), then to wherever.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
Trolleybus
2020-09-19 10:57:42 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:24:37 +0100, "Clive D.W. Feather"
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Trolleybus
Neasden was a Bakerloo Line depot but the Drayton Park - Moorgate line
was advertised as being part of the Northern Line. Was it
operationally part of the Bakerloo (in the way that the ELL was
advertised as Met Line but was operated by, was it the District)? Or
was it worked as Northern Line but went for overhaul via Neasden to
Northern Line depots and Acton?
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Circle to Earl's Court, then Hammersmith (reverse), Piccadilly to
somewhere at the east end (reverse), back to King's Cross, then King's
Cross Loop to Euston (City), then to wherever.
Thank you, that's the information I was looking for.
b***@nuttyella.co.uk
2020-09-19 14:52:57 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:24:37 +0100
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Trolleybus
Neasden was a Bakerloo Line depot but the Drayton Park - Moorgate line
was advertised as being part of the Northern Line. Was it
operationally part of the Bakerloo (in the way that the ELL was
advertised as Met Line but was operated by, was it the District)? Or
was it worked as Northern Line but went for overhaul via Neasden to
Northern Line depots and Acton?
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Why would you go from Farringdon? Surely a train would just be towed from
Drayton Park to East Finchley then run under its own power to Mordon?
Clive D.W. Feather
2020-09-27 21:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Why would you go from Farringdon? Surely a train would just be towed from
Drayton Park to East Finchley then run under its own power to Mordon?
How? There wasn't a route from Finsbury Park to East Finchley except via
Farringdon.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
Certes
2020-09-27 21:34:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Why would you go from Farringdon? Surely a train would just be towed from
Drayton Park to East Finchley then run under its own power to Mordon?
How? There wasn't a route from Finsbury Park to East Finchley except via
Farringdon.
There was until 1964: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Walk>
b***@nuttyella.co.uk
2020-09-28 08:17:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 22:34:08 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Why would you go from Farringdon? Surely a train would just be towed from
Drayton Park to East Finchley then run under its own power to Mordon?
How? There wasn't a route from Finsbury Park to East Finchley except via
Farringdon.
There was until 1964: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Walk>
You'd think Clive would know about that given he's a supposed expert on
the underground.
Nick Leverton
2020-09-28 08:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 22:34:08 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Why would you go from Farringdon? Surely a train would just be towed from
Drayton Park to East Finchley then run under its own power to Mordon?
How? There wasn't a route from Finsbury Park to East Finchley except via
Farringdon.
There was until 1964: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Walk>
You'd think Clive would know about that given he's a supposed expert on
the underground.
Despite your famed attention to detail, you seem to have missed that
the date in question for this thread is 1971.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
b***@nuttyella.co.uk
2020-09-28 10:39:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 28 Sep 2020 08:52:28 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Nick Leverton
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
On Sun, 27 Sep 2020 22:34:08 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by b***@nuttyella.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
It was operationally part of the Northern Line at this point, but
getting stuff to Neasden for heavy overhaul was much easier than getting
it to any Northern Line depot (from Farringdon you'd have to go via the
Why would you go from Farringdon? Surely a train would just be towed from
Drayton Park to East Finchley then run under its own power to Mordon?
How? There wasn't a route from Finsbury Park to East Finchley except via
Farringdon.
There was until 1964: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkland_Walk>
You'd think Clive would know about that given he's a supposed expert on
the underground.
Despite your famed attention to detail, you seem to have missed that
the date in question for this thread is 1971.
I apologise for having a job and not having the time to note down every single
minor detail in every thread I read.

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