Discussion:
Stratford platform 3a
(too old to reply)
Dr. Sunil
2010-07-31 15:08:46 UTC
Permalink
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
Paul Corfield
2010-07-31 18:44:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office. Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
--
Paul C
D7666
2010-07-31 19:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office.  Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
I am in the same position.

I know the date - and have been involved with some of the controls
systems work - but it is also not appropriate for me to post the
program dates. Sorry, OP, there are occasions when ones professional
responsibilities have to over-ride crank interests.

--
Nick
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-02 14:05:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by D7666
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office.  Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
I am in the same position.
I know the date - and have been involved with some of the controls
systems work - but it is also not appropriate for me to post the
program dates. Sorry, OP, there are occasions when ones professional
responsibilities have to over-ride crank interests.
--
Nick
Um, why the secrecy? Is it the same reason why we don't when the new
DLR section will open?
Mizter T
2010-08-02 14:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by D7666
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office.  Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
I am in the same position.
I know the date - and have been involved with some of the controls
systems work - but it is also not appropriate for me to post the
program dates. Sorry, OP, there are occasions when ones professional
responsibilities have to over-ride crank interests.
Um, why the secrecy? Is it the same reason why we don't when the new
DLR section will open?
Platform 3a will open on Saturday 21 August, whilst the DLR extension
will open on Saturday 9 October.

Please do note however that I've pulled both of the above dates out of
a metaphorical hat.
Paul Corfield
2010-08-02 18:17:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by D7666
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office.  Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
I am in the same position.
I know the date - and have been involved with some of the controls
systems work - but it is also not appropriate for me to post the
program dates. Sorry, OP, there are occasions when ones professional
responsibilities have to over-ride crank interests.
Um, why the secrecy? Is it the same reason why we don't when the new
DLR section will open?
Read the relevant papers on the TfL website re the DLR - I repeated the
date of 20/9/10 which I am sure is in one of their documents.

<checks>

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item05-Operational-Financial-IP-Reports-Board-23-June-2010.pdf

see page 69 of the above document. Also look at the status that is
shown against the "open for service" milestone. The info is in the
public domain if you people search for it.

Without sounding rude I think you need to understand that some of us are
bound by strict codes of conduct at work and "errors" are not tolerated
if you're a senior manager. I don't think I need to say anymore?!
--
Paul C
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-03 11:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 07:05:41 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by D7666
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office.  Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
I am in the same position.
I know the date - and have been involved with some of the controls
systems work - but it is also not appropriate for me to post the
program dates. Sorry, OP, there are occasions when ones professional
responsibilities have to over-ride crank interests.
Um, why the secrecy? Is it the same reason why we don't when the new
DLR section will open?
Read the relevant papers on the TfL website re the DLR - I repeated the
date of 20/9/10 which I am sure is in one of their documents.
<checks>
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item05-Operational-F...
see page 69 of the above document.  Also look at the status that is
shown against the "open for service" milestone.  The info is in the
public domain if you people search for it.
Without sounding rude I think you need to understand that some of us are
bound by strict codes of conduct at work and "errors" are not tolerated
if you're a senior manager. I don't think I need to say anymore?!
--
Paul C
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
Mizter T
2010-08-03 13:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
[snip]
Um, why the secrecy? Is it the same reason why we don't when the new
DLR section will open?
Read the relevant papers on the TfL website re the DLR - I repeated the
date of 20/9/10 which I am sure is in one of their documents.
<checks>
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Item05-Operational-Financial-IP-Reports-Board-23-June-2010.pdf
see page 69 of the above document. Also look at the status that is
shown against the "open for service" milestone. The info is in the
public domain if you people search for it.
Without sounding rude I think you need to understand that some of us are
bound by strict codes of conduct at work and "errors" are not tolerated
if you're a senior manager. I don't think I need to say anymore?!
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
He doesn't - it's information that isn't in the public domain that
puts Paul in fear of the enforcers of the legendary LU black-ops unit
(full of moonlighting RPIs earning a bit of cash-in-hand 'overtime' -
apparently they love it because they're no longer constrained by the
normal rules of engagement...).

If you read the whole thread you'll see there are two separate issues
- the opening of the Central line platform at Stratford, and the
opening of the DLR extension.
Mike Bristow
2010-08-03 14:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
He probably wouldn't. But it would take some time and effort to
find out if the information is in the public domain - which he
might want to do before posting it here, Just In Case.

And that doesn't cover the case where the public info is X, but the
internal info is Y...

Cheers,
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Mizter T
2010-08-03 14:49:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
He probably wouldn't.  But it would take some time and effort to
find out if the information is in the public domain - which he
might want to do before posting it here, Just In Case.
And that doesn't cover the case where the public info is X, but the
internal info is Y...
There are two separate bits of information being discussed in this
thread - that's the v. simple explanation.
Paul Corfield
2010-08-03 19:35:37 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:53:18 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
<sigh>

You raised two questions - platform 3a and then DLR. I have a good idea
about platform 3a but that is *not* in the public domain and I can't
share that info. You then commented about multiple rumoured dates for
DLR to Stratford International and said we (the public) had not been
told. I simply pointed you to publicly available info from TfL that does
have a date. We shall see if the team at DLR and their contractors meet
that date in due course. I hope they do as I'm on hols then and a first
day ride would be very nice!

HTH
--
Paul C
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-03 23:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:53:18 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
<sigh>
You raised two questions - platform 3a and then DLR. I have a good idea
about platform 3a but that is *not* in the public domain
Why not? It's hardly state secret - is it?
Post by Paul Corfield
and I can't
share that info.  
Why not? Maybe Wikileaks can step in!
Post by Paul Corfield
You then commented about multiple rumoured dates for
DLR to Stratford International and said we (the public) had not been
told. I simply pointed you to publicly available info from TfL that does
have a date.
Ooops my apologies!
Post by Paul Corfield
We shall see if the team at DLR and their contractors meet
that date in due course.  I hope they do as I'm on hols then and a first
day ride would be very nice!
It would be nice to be able to approach Stratford International from
the Channelsea side!
Paul Corfield
2010-08-04 19:18:53 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:54:04 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:53:18 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
<sigh>
You raised two questions - platform 3a and then DLR. I have a good idea
about platform 3a but that is *not* in the public domain
Why not? It's hardly state secret - is it?
I can't work out if you're being deliberately obtuse or you just don't
understand. We have a code of conduct at work - if you breach it you
can be sacked.

I've had two scrapes with the press people over Oyster stuff I posted
here. To be frank I'm not going through that experience again.

If it ain't a state secret then I'm sure you will be able to tell me
when it is going to open!
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
and I can't
share that info.  
Why not? Maybe Wikileaks can step in!
They're too busy making sure that informants get murdered by the
Taliban. With due respect my job is worth more than posting the odd
message on here despite the fact that some people do actually appreciate
what I do say.
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
You then commented about multiple rumoured dates for
DLR to Stratford International and said we (the public) had not been
told. I simply pointed you to publicly available info from TfL that does
have a date.
Ooops my apologies!
Thank you.
--
Paul C
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-05 11:33:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:54:04 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:53:18 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
<sigh>
You raised two questions - platform 3a and then DLR. I have a good idea
about platform 3a but that is *not* in the public domain
Why not? It's hardly state secret - is it?
I can't work out if you're being deliberately obtuse or you just don't
understand.  We have a code of conduct at work - if you breach it you
can be sacked.
Surely you have a duty to your customers?
Post by Paul Corfield
I've had two scrapes with the press people over Oyster stuff I posted
here. To be frank I'm not going through that experience again.
If it ain't a state secret then I'm sure you will be able to tell me
when it is going to open!
No it ain't a state secret then I'm sure you will be able to tell all
of us when it's going to open, given you work for LUL!
Mizter T
2010-08-05 12:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 16:54:04 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 04:53:18 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
<scratching head quizzically>
If the info is in the public domain why on earth would you get into
trouble for divulging said info here????
<sigh>
You raised two questions - platform 3a and then DLR. I have a good idea
about platform 3a but that is *not* in the public domain
Why not? It's hardly state secret - is it?
I can't work out if you're being deliberately obtuse or you just don't
understand.  We have a code of conduct at work - if you breach it you
can be sacked.
Surely you have a duty to your customers?
So now we know you are being deliberately obtuse then.

As you well know Paul doesn't post here in any official capacity, and
people hassling him like this on here are only likely to result in him
backing away from, or just opting out of, involvement in this group.
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Paul Corfield
I've had two scrapes with the press people over Oyster stuff I posted
here. To be frank I'm not going through that experience again.
If it ain't a state secret then I'm sure you will be able to tell me
when it is going to open!
No it ain't a state secret then I'm sure you will be able to tell all
of us when it's going to open, given you work for LUL!
'Company confidential' is as good as a state secret when breaching it
means your meal ticket's on the line.

Why on earth do you need to know so desperately anyway? The second
platform will open sometime soon, when it does you'll be able to go
and put your feet on the hallowed surface and discover that it's much
like any other platform, i.e. made of pink bouncy rubber and stuck
together with treacle.
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-05 12:09:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mizter T
Why on earth do you need to know so desperately anyway? The second
platform will open sometime soon, when it does you'll be able to go
and put your feet on the hallowed surface and discover that it's much
like any other platform, i.e. made of pink bouncy rubber and stuck
together with treacle.
I've emailed TfL directly, thank you.
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-05 15:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Mizter T
Why on earth do you need to know so desperately anyway? The second
platform will open sometime soon, when it does you'll be able to go
and put your feet on the hallowed surface and discover that it's much
like any other platform, i.e. made of pink bouncy rubber and stuck
together with treacle.
I've emailed TfL directly, thank you.
I commend TfL on their speed of response (~2 hours!):

It would appear that both the Central Line platform and the DLR
extension will be opening in mid to late September.
Mike Bristow
2010-08-31 09:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
It would appear that both the Central Line platform and the DLR
extension will be opening in mid to late September.
TfL have just emailed me to say that it will open on Sunday 5 September.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-31 11:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
It would appear that both the Central Line platform and the DLR
extension will be opening in mid to late September.
Same here! But they only mentioned 3a and not the DLR extension.
Dr. Sunil
2010-09-05 18:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Dr. Sunil
It would appear that both the Central Line platform and the DLR
extension will be opening in mid to late September.
Same here! But they only mentioned 3a and not the DLR extension.
Platform 3a...must have platform 3a....
:)

Um, shots taken today:

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Jim
2010-09-06 01:12:38 UTC
Permalink
In article <da0bc271-168d-45a0-a5b6-
***@f6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.co.uk
says...
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Dr. Sunil
It would appear that both the Central Line platform and the DLR
extension will be opening in mid to late September.
Same here! But they only mentioned 3a and not the DLR extension.
Platform 3a...must have platform 3a....
:)
Great fun today [Sunday].

Crowds on platform 3, beat them onto the westbound Central as no-one
exited on 3a.
[.n]
2010-08-31 23:01:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tristan Miller
In article
Post by Dr. Sunil
It would appear that both the Central Line platform and the DLR
extension will be opening in mid to late September.
TfL have just emailed me to say that it will open on Sunday 5 September.
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?

I'll have further to go now to catch my tube :)
--
[.n]
Paul Corfield
2010-09-01 06:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by [.n]
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?
AIUI the latter. No platforms are closing.

--
Paul C
via Google
Mike Bristow
2010-09-01 11:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by [.n]
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?
AIUI the latter. No platforms are closing.
The email I got is quite explicit on this point. It says:

} Westbound Central line train doors will now open on both sides.
} When facing the direction of travel, you should exit via the right
} side of the train to change onto London Overground and National
} Rail services or via the left side of the train to change onto the
} Jubilee line, DLR or to leave the station.


This, I suppose, begs the question: doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
MIG
2010-09-01 14:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by [.n]
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?
AIUI the latter. No platforms are closing.
} Westbound Central line train doors will now open on both sides.
} When facing the direction of travel, you should exit via the right
} side of the train to change onto London Overground and National
} Rail services or via the left side of the train to change onto the
} Jubilee line, DLR or to leave the station.
This, I suppose, begs the question:  doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
--
I can't think of anywhere else on LU where non-terminating trains do
it.
Paul Corfield
2010-09-01 19:02:28 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 07:17:02 -0700 (PDT), MIG
Post by MIG
Post by Mike Bristow
This, I suppose, begs the question:  doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
I can't think of anywhere else on LU where non-terminating trains do
it.
White City?
--
Paul C
MIG
2010-09-01 20:46:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 07:17:02 -0700 (PDT), MIG
Post by MIG
Post by Mike Bristow
This, I suppose, begs the question:  doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
I can't think of anywhere else on LU where non-terminating trains do
it.
White City?
I'd only ever seen it done there for terminators, but I don't spend
much time that way these daze. Would there be much point, ie wouldn't
all the people going in a particular direction be on the same side?
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2010-09-01 19:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by MIG
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by [.n]
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?
AIUI the latter. No platforms are closing.
} Westbound Central line train doors will now open on both sides.
} When facing the direction of travel, you should exit via the right
} side of the train to change onto London Overground and National
} Rail services or via the left side of the train to change onto the
} Jubilee line, DLR or to leave the station.
This, I suppose, begs the question: doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
--
I can't think of anywhere else on LU where non-terminating trains do
it.
I can't think of any place that terminating trains do it. The only place
that I know of that opens doors on both sides is the DLR at Canary Wharf.
Peter Smyth
2010-09-01 19:55:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by MIG
Post by Mike Bristow
In
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by [.n]
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?
AIUI the latter. No platforms are closing.
} Westbound Central line train doors will now open on both sides.
} When facing the direction of travel, you should exit via the right
} side of the train to change onto London Overground and National
} Rail services or via the left side of the train to change onto the
} Jubilee line, DLR or to leave the station.
This, I suppose, begs the question: doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
--
I can't think of anywhere else on LU where non-terminating trains do
it.
I can't think of any place that terminating trains do it. The only
place that I know of that opens doors on both sides is the DLR at
Canary Wharf.
Terminating trains open the doors on both sides at Morden, Golders
Green, Arnos Grove and White City.

Peter Smyth
Paul Corfield
2010-09-01 20:12:28 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:55:05 +0100, "Peter Smyth"
Post by Peter Smyth
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I can't think of any place that terminating trains do it. The only
place that I know of that opens doors on both sides is the DLR at
Canary Wharf.
Tower Gateway too.
Post by Peter Smyth
Terminating trains open the doors on both sides at Morden, Golders
Green, Arnos Grove and White City.
Cockfosters? Loughton?
--
Paul C
MIG
2010-09-01 20:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:55:05 +0100, "Peter Smyth"
Post by Peter Smyth
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I can't think of any place that terminating trains do it. The only
place that I know of that opens doors on both sides is the DLR at
Canary Wharf.
Tower Gateway too.
Post by Peter Smyth
Terminating trains open the doors on both sides at Morden, Golders
Green, Arnos Grove and White City.
Cockfosters? Loughton?
--
Paul C
Uxbridge?
Steve Fitzgerald
2010-09-02 17:22:42 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by MIG
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Peter Smyth
Terminating trains open the doors on both sides at Morden, Golders
Green, Arnos Grove and White City.
Cockfosters? Loughton?
Uxbridge?
Nope, same as Cockfosters, only one platform (the one nearest the bus
station, I never remember the platform numbers there though!)
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)
Steve Fitzgerald
2010-09-02 17:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Peter Smyth
Terminating trains open the doors on both sides at Morden, Golders
Green, Arnos Grove and White City.
Cockfosters? Loughton?
Certainly not CFS (open onto platform 3 only for 'safety reasons')
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)
Dr. Sunil
2010-09-04 15:30:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Smyth
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by MIG
Post by Mike Bristow
In
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by [.n]
Presumably the old platform 3 will close - or will we have the excitement of
dual platforms and both sets of doors opening?
AIUI the latter. No platforms are closing.
} Westbound Central line train doors will now open on both sides.
} When facing the direction of travel, you should exit via the right
} side of the train to change onto London Overground and National
} Rail services or via the left side of the train to change onto the
} Jubilee line, DLR or to leave the station.
This, I suppose, begs the question:  doors open on both sides of the
train at Barking, and soon at Stratford... anywhere else?
--
I can't think of anywhere else on LU where non-terminating trains do
it.
I can't think of any place that terminating trains do it. The only
place that I know of that opens doors on both sides is the DLR at
Canary Wharf.
Terminating trains open the doors on both sides at Morden, Golders
Green, Arnos Grove and White City.
Peter Smyth
IME Golders Green terminators only disgorge onto the platform in
direction of travel.
Paul Corfield
2010-08-05 17:34:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 05:09:08 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Mizter T
Why on earth do you need to know so desperately anyway? The second
platform will open sometime soon, when it does you'll be able to go
and put your feet on the hallowed surface and discover that it's much
like any other platform, i.e. made of pink bouncy rubber and stuck
together with treacle.
I've emailed TfL directly, thank you.
Is the right answer. At bloody last.
--
Paul C
Paul Corfield
2010-08-05 17:42:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mizter T
Post by Dr. Sunil
Surely you have a duty to your customers?
Yes except I am not at work when I post here. However I am bound by the
code of conduct at all times just before you split any more hairs.
Post by Mizter T
So now we know you are being deliberately obtuse then.
As you well know Paul doesn't post here in any official capacity, and
people hassling him like this on here are only likely to result in him
backing away from, or just opting out of, involvement in this group.
Thanks for the comments Mizter T. I see that the good doctor has asked
TfL directly and has obtained a reply. Hopefully that will put an end
to this saga.

Anyway I shall enjoy my site visit to the new bits of Stratford and
Westfield in a couple of weeks - seemingly well before anything opens.
It clearly pays to know the project manager. :-))))))
--
Paul C
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-06 12:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mizter T
Why on earth do you need to know so desperately anyway? The second
platform will open sometime soon, when it does you'll be able to go
and put your feet on the hallowed surface and discover that it's much
like any other platform, i.e. made of pink bouncy rubber and stuck
together with treacle.
[sigh] I confess it's an addiction, going around photographing every
single LUL, NR, DLR and Tramlink station in the Oystercard Zone over
the last two years or so.

http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Gallery.php?wikifam=commons.wikimedia.org&img_user_text=Sunil060902

I've even made a start on visiting London's disused and/or never
opened stations (at present mostly in north and east London - south
and west London will be added when I have time!).

You may remember me making these posts several years ago:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.transport.london/msg/1ec7d464f67ed3cd?dmode=source
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.transport.london/msg/7af09b4023e759ff?dmode=source

<C3PO>
It wasn't my fault, sir! Please don't deactivate me! But he's
faulty, malfunctioning, babbling on about his mission!
</C3PO>
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-03 11:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Corfield
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
I have a clue but if I reveal the date I will be shot by the press
office.  Let us just say the time until it does open is measured in
weeks rather than months.
--
Paul C
Platform 3a....must have platform 3a....

March 2009:
Loading Image...

January 2010:
Loading Image...

31 May 2010:
Loading Image...

31 July 2010:
Loading Image...
f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
2010-08-02 14:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
So, how many platforms will Stratford have when completed? They now
seem to be numbered 1-17, but 4 and 7 don't exist, and 3a, 4a, 4b and
10a need to be added, making 19 in total, serving 18 tracks; is that
correct? Quite a change from when I first got to know the station in
the '70s, when 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 8 were the only ones which saw other
than occasional use. Even 1 and 2 were only used by the little-known
service from north Woolwich to Tottenham Hale.

Does anybody know when platforms 12 and the old 13 were closed, and
the part of the subway leading to them was bricked up? When the old
subway was being cleaned up, the wall removed and the steps up to the
platform re-built an old poster frame had been dragged out of one of
the doorways leading off this subway, along with some rotten wood, and
there was the remains of a timetable on it, which listed a few trains
to Hertford East from platform 12, but I couldn't see any date on it.
I always knew that the station, and the area in general, was going to
see a change in its fortunes. The station really was in a terrible
state at that time, despite the fact that it was only about 25 years
since the last refurbishment fot the Central Line extension and the
Shenfield electrification.
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-02 14:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
So, how many platforms will Stratford have when completed?  They now
seem to be numbered 1-17, but 4 and 7 don't exist, and 3a, 4a, 4b and
10a need to be added, making 19 in total, serving 18 tracks; is that
correct?  Quite a change from when I first got to know the station in
the '70s, when 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 8 were the only ones which saw other
than occasional use.  Even 1 and 2 were only used by the little-known
service from north Woolwich to Tottenham Hale.
Does anybody know when platforms 12 and the old 13 were closed, and
the part of the subway leading to them was bricked up?  When the old
subway was being cleaned up, the wall removed and the steps up to the
platform re-built an old poster frame had been dragged out of one of
the doorways leading off this subway, along with some rotten wood, and
there was the remains of a timetable on it, which listed a few trains
to Hertford East from platform 12, but I couldn't see any date on it.
I always knew that the station, and the area in general, was going to
see a change in its fortunes.  The station really was in a terrible
state at that time, despite the fact that it was only about 25 years
since the last refurbishment fot the Central Line extension and the
Shenfield electrification.
1 and 2 London Overground
3, 3a and 6 Central line (3 and 3a same track)
4a and 4b DLR via Bow Church
5 and 8 Shenfield services
9 and 10 Mainline services (beyond Shenfield)
(10a not used except during engineering works?)
11 and 12 Tottenham Hale/Stansted services
13, 14 and 15 Jubilee line
16 and 17 DLR Stratford International/West Ham

18 platforms in regular service, serving 17 tracks, with a 19th
platform serving an 18th track in occasional use

(actually are both DLR platform 4s in regular use?)
Paul Scott
2010-08-02 15:04:21 UTC
Permalink
"Dr. Sunil" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:62d5b9a7-28be-4111-bbba-
Post by Dr. Sunil
(actually are both DLR platform 4s in regular use?)
Yes - 4a and 4b seem to be used alternately in the normal weekday
timetable.

Paul S
Martin Petrov
2010-08-02 16:49:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Scott
news:62d5b9a7-28be-4111-bbba-
Post by Dr. Sunil
(actually are both DLR platform 4s in regular use?)
Yes - 4a and 4b seem to be used alternately in the normal weekday
timetable.
Paul S
Yes, during the day (though frustratingly, not at the peak) there's a 5
minute interval service where one train pulls into one platform, and
another train pulls out of the other platform, which means that there's
always a train in the station, and no mad rush for seats with people
trying to get on while people are getting off.

I think I'm right in saying that during those times, there's only service
as far as Canary Wharf when running this system.
f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
2010-08-02 22:30:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
So, how many platforms will Stratford have when completed?  They now
seem to be numbered 1-17, but 4 and 7 don't exist, and 3a, 4a, 4b and
10a need to be added, making 19 in total, serving 18 tracks; is that
correct?  Quite a change from when I first got to know the station in
the '70s, when 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 8 were the only ones which saw other
than occasional use.  Even 1 and 2 were only used by the little-known
service from north Woolwich to Tottenham Hale.
Does anybody know when platforms 12 and the old 13 were closed, and
the part of the subway leading to them was bricked up?  When the old
subway was being cleaned up, the wall removed and the steps up to the
platform re-built an old poster frame had been dragged out of one of
the doorways leading off this subway, along with some rotten wood, and
there was the remains of a timetable on it, which listed a few trains
to Hertford East from platform 12, but I couldn't see any date on it.
I always knew that the station, and the area in general, was going to
see a change in its fortunes.  The station really was in a terrible
state at that time, despite the fact that it was only about 25 years
since the last refurbishment fot the Central Line extension and the
Shenfield electrification.
1 and 2 London Overground
3, 3a and 6 Central line (3 and 3a same track)
4a and 4b DLR via Bow Church
5 and 8 Shenfield services
9 and 10 Mainline services (beyond Shenfield)
(10a not used except during engineering works?)
11 and 12 Tottenham Hale/Stansted services
13, 14 and 15 Jubilee line
16 and 17 DLR Stratford International/West Ham
18 platforms in regular service, serving 17 tracks, with a 19th
platform serving an 18th track in occasional use
(actually are both DLR platform 4s in regular use?)
How are the platforms at Internationaal numbered/lettered?
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-05 11:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and barricades (platform
side) had been removed from the new Central westbound platform (3a),
though the concourse accesses were still blocked off by hoardings.
Anyone know when it will open?
So, how many platforms will Stratford have when completed?  They now
seem to be numbered 1-17, but 4 and 7 don't exist, and 3a, 4a, 4b and
10a need to be added, making 19 in total, serving 18 tracks; is that
correct?  Quite a change from when I first got to know the station in
the '70s, when 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 8 were the only ones which saw other
than occasional use.  Even 1 and 2 were only used by the little-known
service from north Woolwich to Tottenham Hale.
Does anybody know when platforms 12 and the old 13 were closed, and
the part of the subway leading to them was bricked up?  When the old
subway was being cleaned up, the wall removed and the steps up to the
platform re-built an old poster frame had been dragged out of one of
the doorways leading off this subway, along with some rotten wood, and
there was the remains of a timetable on it, which listed a few trains
to Hertford East from platform 12, but I couldn't see any date on it.
I always knew that the station, and the area in general, was going to
see a change in its fortunes.  The station really was in a terrible
state at that time, despite the fact that it was only about 25 years
since the last refurbishment fot the Central Line extension and the
Shenfield electrification.
1 and 2 London Overground
3, 3a and 6 Central line (3 and 3a same track)
4a and 4b DLR via Bow Church
5 and 8 Shenfield services
9 and 10 Mainline services (beyond Shenfield)
(10a not used except during engineering works?)
11 and 12 Tottenham Hale/Stansted services
13, 14 and 15 Jubilee line
16 and 17 DLR Stratford International/West Ham
18 platforms in regular service, serving 17 tracks, with a 19th
platform serving an 18th track in occasional use
(actually are both DLR platform 4s in regular use?)
How are the platforms at Internationaal numbered/lettered?
The mainline station platforms are numbered 1 to 4. Two extra fast
tracks, not served by any platforms, pass through in between the
tracks with platforms. A seventh track rises up in between platforms 2
and 3 to access Temple Mills Depot to the northeast of the station.

I presume the DLR station, being in a separate building, will have its
own numbers/letters (probably the latter?).
f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
2010-08-05 14:21:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
I presume the DLR station, being in a separate building, will have its
own numbers/letters (probably the latter?).- Hide quoted text -
Separate building? Couldn't they have built the main station to take
the DLR as well?
Paul Scott
2010-08-05 14:42:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
Post by Dr. Sunil
I presume the DLR station, being in a separate building, will have its
own numbers/letters (probably the latter?).- Hide quoted text -
Separate building? Couldn't they have built the main station to take
the DLR as well?
The decision to run the DLR beyond Stratford had probably not been made when
the International station was being designed? The latter was finished about
3 years ago, when they had only just got round to the NLL closure for update
to DLR, and the DLR track's general direction was constrained by being where
the old low level NLL had been.

I'm not so sure about running the DLR into the same building either - as
most of it sits over the station box, and it has pedestrian access at both
ends?

Paul S
b***@boltar.world
2010-08-05 14:56:35 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:42:04 +0100
Post by Paul Scott
The decision to run the DLR beyond Stratford had probably not been made when
the International station was being designed? The latter was finished about
3 years ago, when they had only just got round to the NLL closure for update
to DLR, and the DLR track's general direction was constrained by being where
the old low level NLL had been.
Am I the only one who thinks the DLR is big enough already given its
limited design specifications? Its already one hell of a shlep from bank
to city airport on trains which barely seem to get above 25mph these days.
If it wants to become a proper metro it'll need proper trains and not
have stations almost as often as bus stops.

B2003
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-05 15:17:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@boltar.world
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 15:42:04 +0100
Post by Paul Scott
The decision to run the DLR beyond Stratford had probably not been made when
the International station was being designed?  The latter was finished about
3 years ago, when they had only just got round to the NLL closure for update
to DLR, and the DLR track's general direction was constrained by being where
the old low level NLL had been.
Space could be provided above the mainline tracks using a covered way,
but it'll be tight squeeze coming off the former NLL alignment.
Post by b***@boltar.world
Am I the only one who thinks the DLR is big enough already given its
limited design specifications? Its already one hell of a shlep from bank
to city airport on trains which barely seem to get above 25mph these days.
If it wants to become a proper metro it'll need proper trains and not
have stations almost as often as bus stops.
B2003
I cannot understand the close spacing between West India Quay*/Canary
Wharf/Heron Quays. One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
south across each Quay. (*even more so given the skip-stop service on
some Bank-Lewisham service (peaks?)).
b***@boltar.world
2010-08-05 15:29:20 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Dr. Sunil
I cannot understand the close spacing between West India Quay*/Canary
Wharf/Heron Quays. One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
I don't understand it either. Not only does it slow the service down
unnecessarily but those 2 extra stations must have cost a fortune over
the years.

B2003
Paul Corfield
2010-08-05 17:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@boltar.world
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Dr. Sunil
I cannot understand the close spacing between West India Quay*/Canary
Wharf/Heron Quays. One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
I don't understand it either. Not only does it slow the service down
unnecessarily but those 2 extra stations must have cost a fortune over
the years.
Is there not an element here of being wise after the event? We all know
DLR was designed as cheaply as possible to provide a service to the
various quays in the former docks. When the line opened there was next
to no development on any of these places but as it grew each station
gained patronage. Closing any of them therefore became more difficult. I
suspect the developers of the mega blocks on Canary and Heron Quays
required the retention of the DLR station to give easy access for their
employees even if the Jubilee Line was under construction or open when
they took the decision to build their developments.

If you take a step back and look at where we should be in 2017 then the
Isle of Dogs transport provision will be mad because you'll have light
rail, tube and heavy rail running beside each other probably all full to
capacity. If there'd been any sort of sensible development plan then
you'd probably have had three heavy rail lines in the area - something
like Crossrail bur running to Stratford, a diversion of C2C and a spur
under the Thames off the South Eastern network. Instead you'll have 5
stations within brick throwing distance of other.
--
Paul C
Bruce
2010-08-05 18:24:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
I cannot understand the close spacing between West India Quay*/Canary
Wharf/Heron Quays.
There is so much that you "cannot understand". Perhaps you should do
a little more research rather than instantly jump to the conclusion
that you "cannot understand".
Post by Dr. Sunil
One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
south across each Quay.
When the line was built, Canary Wharf did not exist as anything other
than a disused wharf. Until the Reichmann brothers came along with
proposals to develop Canary Wharf into what it is today, there was no
need for a station at Canary Wharf at all.

The DLR was built as an ultra-low cost light railway, and anything
that wasn't needed was not included. Heron Quays and West India Quays
were both developed early and got stations.

When Canary Wharf station was built, it had to go between the two
existing stations. That's why the three are so close together. Once
again, the cost of making all three into one much larger station
spanning wide expanses of water would not have been economic.
Post by Dr. Sunil
(*even more so given the skip-stop service on
some Bank-Lewisham service (peaks?)).
In those days, the Lewisham extension hadn't even been planned, let
alone started. Once again, you seem to think that people designing
the DLR in the mid-1980s should have been able to predict the exact
future course of development decades ahead ...

The truth is that no-one could have foreseen what would eventually
happen at Canary Wharf. The idea came completely out of the blue. It
was quite out of keeping with the then-current plans for Docklands,
which were for low- and medium-rise, low density development with the
primary objective of providing jobs for local people who were made
redundant when the docks and other associated local businesses closed.
The DLR was designed to support this objective. So why on earth build
a grandiose station for a quay (Canary Wharf) which wasn't expected to
be developed?

No doubt you will have some smart-arse response to all this. But I
suggest you should do a little more research instead of sounding off
on the basis of zero knowledge of the subject, which seems to have
been your style so far.

By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology. Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
2010-08-05 19:19:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
When the line was built, Canary Wharf did not exist as anything other
than a disused wharf.  Until the Reichmann brothers came along with
proposals to develop Canary Wharf into what it is today, there was no
need for a station at Canary Wharf at all.  
But a station was indeed built at Canary Wharf, of similar design to
the others on that stretch of line. It was complete, and even had
signs in the original style, but never opened and I think was at least
partially demolished by the time the line opened. Certainly, it had
completely gone soon afterwards.

Trains actually stopped at the location of this never opened station
for some time because it was still programmed into the control
system. Obviously, the doors did not open. Parts, e,g, canopies,
from the original station were stored nearby, and I think some were
later used when other stations were extended.
Post by Bruce
The DLR was built as an ultra-low cost light railway, and anything
that wasn't needed was not included.  Heron Quays and West India Quays
were both developed early and got stations.
When Canary Wharf station was built, it had to go between the two
existing stations.  That's why the three are so close together.
It was indeed built between West India Quay and Heron Quays, in
exactly the same location as the original, never-opened, station. I
suppose the extension of all of the stations to accept longer trains
brings their platform ends even closer than they would originally have
been.

Heron quays station was also in the middle of nowhere, and then a
building site. This station was almost totally unused when the line
first opened; there was nothing there. I remember an event, food-
related I think, taking place in a tent there, and that was the first
time that I got off there. West India Quay did see rather more use at
that time.
Post by Bruce
Once
again, the cost of making all three into one much larger station
spanning wide expanses of water would not have been economic.
Post by Dr. Sunil
(*even more so given the skip-stop service on
some Bank-Lewisham service (peaks?)).
In those days, the Lewisham extension hadn't even been planned, let
alone started.  Once again, you seem to think that people designing
the DLR in the mid-1980s should have been able to predict the exact
future course of development decades ahead ...
The truth is that no-one could have foreseen what would eventually
happen at Canary Wharf.  The idea came completely out of the blue.  It
was quite out of keeping with the then-current plans for Docklands,
which were for low- and medium-rise, low density development with the
primary objective of providing jobs for local people who were made
redundant when the docks and other associated local businesses closed.
The DLR was designed to support this objective.  So why on earth build
a grandiose station for a quay (Canary Wharf) which wasn't expected to
be developed?
The future of the Docklands area was indeed far from certain when the
DLR was being designed and built. Some predicted that the development
of the area would come to nothing, and that the DLR would be an
expensive (all of £77m if I remember correctly) white elephant.
Others predicted that a large-scale development would take, and the
DLR would be totally unable to cope. Neither prediction was totally
unreasonable at the time. Certainly, it would have been quite
impossible to fund anything like the current system at the time.
Paul Corfield
2010-08-05 19:31:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology. Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
<post I never thought I'd read, #1,235 in a series of 10,000>

Thank you, Mr P.
--
Paul C
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-06 02:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
south across each Quay.
When the line was built, Canary Wharf did not exist as anything other
than a disused wharf.  Until the Reichmann brothers came along with
proposals to develop Canary Wharf into what it is today, there was no
need for a station at Canary Wharf at all.  
According to Wiki:
"Canary Wharf station had been part of the original DLR plans, but
when the system opened in August 1987 the station was not ready.[5] It
was originally planned that the station would be similar to the
original station at Heron Quays, with two small platforms either side
of the tracks. It soon became apparent that the Canary Wharf
development would produce demand well above the capacity of a simple
station. On 17 July 1987 (over a month before the DLR opened to the
public) a contract was awarded to GEC-Mowlem Railway Group to rebuild
the station into the considerably more elaborate and spacious design
that exists today. It was opened in November 1991.[5]"
Post by Bruce
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology.  Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
I got the info I required (see upthread) very promptly, within about
2hrs 10 minutes after my initial email to the TfL Customer Relations
team. The person who responded (we'll call him "R") gave a very
succinct answer and he made no allusions to his job being under threat
by giving that answer.
MIG
2010-08-06 06:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Bruce
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
south across each Quay.
When the line was built, Canary Wharf did not exist as anything other
than a disused wharf.  Until the Reichmann brothers came along with
proposals to develop Canary Wharf into what it is today, there was no
need for a station at Canary Wharf at all.  
"Canary Wharf station had been part of the original DLR plans, but
when the system opened in August 1987 the station was not ready.[5] It
was originally planned that the station would be similar to the
original station at Heron Quays, with two small platforms either side
of the tracks. It soon became apparent that the Canary Wharf
development would produce demand well above the capacity of a simple
station. On 17 July 1987 (over a month before the DLR opened to the
public) a contract was awarded to GEC-Mowlem Railway Group to rebuild
the station into the considerably more elaborate and spacious design
that exists today. It was opened in November 1991.[5]"
Post by Bruce
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology.  Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
I got the info I required (see upthread) very promptly, within about
2hrs 10 minutes after my initial email to the TfL Customer Relations
team. The person who responded (we'll call him "R") gave a very
succinct answer and he made no allusions to his job being under threat
by giving that answer.
Maybe that's because his job was to give answers based on information
of the kind provided to those whose job it is to give answers.

This is not the same as giving out answers based on information which
has been provided confidentially to someone whose job is not to give
out answers, but who would have to guess whether it might happen to be
in the public domain by now. Even I can work that one out.
Bruce
2010-08-06 07:48:47 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:36:11 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Bruce
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology.  Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
I got the info I required (see upthread) very promptly, within about
2hrs 10 minutes after my initial email to the TfL Customer Relations
team. The person who responded (we'll call him "R") gave a very
succinct answer and he made no allusions to his job being under threat
by giving that answer.
As I said, if you can't be sincere, don't bother. As you're clearly
intent on being a particularly nasty piece of shit, welcome to my kill
file. Ctrl-K.
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-06 11:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:36:11 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Bruce
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology.  Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
I got the info I required (see upthread) very promptly, within about
2hrs 10 minutes after my initial email to the TfL Customer Relations
team. The person who responded (we'll call him "R") gave a very
succinct answer and he made no allusions to his job being under threat
by giving that answer.
As I said, if you can't be sincere, don't bother.  As you're clearly
intent on being a particularly nasty piece of shit, welcome to my kill
file. Ctrl-K.
Actually, I'm not nasty enough to kill-file people, on this or any
other forum.
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-06 11:53:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 19:36:11 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Bruce
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology.  Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
I got the info I required (see upthread) very promptly, within about
2hrs 10 minutes after my initial email to the TfL Customer Relations
team. The person who responded (we'll call him "R") gave a very
succinct answer and he made no allusions to his job being under threat
by giving that answer.
As I said, if you can't be sincere, don't bother.  As you're clearly
intent on being a particularly nasty piece of shit, welcome to my kill
file. Ctrl-K.
And I apologised to Paul several posts upthread (he even acknowledged
that).
Roland Perry
2010-08-06 14:09:00 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by Dr. Sunil
Post by Bruce
As I said, if you can't be sincere, don't bother.  As you're clearly
intent on being a particularly nasty piece of shit, welcome to my kill
file. Ctrl-K.
And I apologised to Paul several posts upthread (he even acknowledged
that).
I think Tony/Bruce is peeved because you refuted his history of Canary
Wharf station.
--
Roland Perry
f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
2010-08-06 15:11:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
"Canary Wharf station had been part of the original DLR plans, but
when the system opened in August 1987 the station was not ready.
I don't think I agree with this; as far as could be seen it was
complete, lighting, signs etc. were all installed. I can't be certain
as to whether things like commissioning of the lifts was complete, but
it not I think it would only have been because it had been decided
that the station would not open, and therefore final works had been
abandoned. It looked finished.
Post by Dr. Sunil
[5] It was originally planned that the station would be similar to the
original station at Heron Quays, with two small platforms either side
of the tracks. It soon became apparent that the Canary Wharf
development would produce demand well above the capacity of a simple
station. On 17 July 1987 (over a month before the DLR opened to the
public) a contract was awarded to GEC-Mowlem Railway Group to rebuild
the station into the considerably more elaborate and spacious design
that exists today. It was opened in November 1991.[5]"
This all sounds right. It was announced that the station would not
open due to the Canary Wharf development being given the go-ahead,
this had been in doubt until shortly before the DLR opened, and the
station therefore being in the middle of a building site for the next
few years. As I rote before, trains did actually stop at this 'ghost'
station for some time, untill it was removed from the control
software; I can't remember when this happened. The whole station area
was totally re-built; the platforms were demolished, the two original
tracks meerged into one, and an extra track added on each side, to
give the present three track, six platform layout.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2010-08-06 22:26:40 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
Post by Dr. Sunil
"Canary Wharf station had been part of the original DLR plans, but
when the system opened in August 1987 the station was not ready.
I don't think I agree with this; as far as could be seen it was
complete, lighting, signs etc. were all installed. I can't be certain
as to whether things like commissioning of the lifts was complete, but
it not I think it would only have been because it had been decided
that the station would not open, and therefore final works had been
abandoned. It looked finished.
The DLR opened with Canary Wharf station in skeleton form only. The track
and basic platforms were there and trains stopped (because of the
automatic signalling) but doors did not open.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
lonelytraveller
2010-09-25 10:01:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. Sunil"
Post by Dr. Sunil
I cannot understand the close spacing between West India Quay*/Canary
Wharf/Heron Quays.
There is so much that you "cannot understand".  Perhaps you should do
a little more research rather than instantly jump to the conclusion
that you "cannot understand".
Post by Dr. Sunil
One any other railway they'd have just built Canary
Wharf (longer platforms perhaps), with additional accesses north and
south across each Quay.
When the line was built, Canary Wharf did not exist as anything other
than a disused wharf.  Until the Reichmann brothers came along with
proposals to develop Canary Wharf into what it is today, there was no
need for a station at Canary Wharf at all.  
The DLR was built as an ultra-low cost light railway, and anything
that wasn't needed was not included.  Heron Quays and West India Quays
were both developed early and got stations.
When Canary Wharf station was built, it had to go between the two
existing stations.  That's why the three are so close together.  Once
again, the cost of making all three into one much larger station
spanning wide expanses of water would not have been economic.
Post by Dr. Sunil
(*even more so given the skip-stop service on
some Bank-Lewisham service (peaks?)).
In those days, the Lewisham extension hadn't even been planned, let
alone started.  Once again, you seem to think that people designing
the DLR in the mid-1980s should have been able to predict the exact
future course of development decades ahead ...
The truth is that no-one could have foreseen what would eventually
happen at Canary Wharf.  The idea came completely out of the blue.  It
was quite out of keeping with the then-current plans for Docklands,
which were for low- and medium-rise, low density development with the
primary objective of providing jobs for local people who were made
redundant when the docks and other associated local businesses closed.
The DLR was designed to support this objective.  So why on earth build
a grandiose station for a quay (Canary Wharf) which wasn't expected to
be developed?
No doubt you will have some smart-arse response to all this.  But I
suggest you should do a little more research instead of sounding off
on the basis of zero knowledge of the subject, which seems to have
been your style so far.
By the way, you owe Paul Corfield an apology.  Some serious grovelling
would be appropriate, but if you can't be sincere, don't bother.
Oh drop the haughty attitude you arrogant prick.

Canary Wharf was always planned as the main focus of the docklands
development. The plans did change, but the original scheme had the
largest most elaborate offices there - a big post-modernist thing. The
second plan had the canary wharf tower and two smaller towers adjacent
to it. Even though they ran out of money, when the development
expanded over the last decade, they still kept to the plan, building
the two companion towers where they always were going to be.

The reason there is a station at Canary Wharf is because, prior to the
Jubilee line and Crossrail, the line crossed multiple docks. There was
a station at each landfall - South Quay, Heron Quays, Canary Wharf,
and West India Quay - because people can't swim across the docks,
there were no bridges, and it was a long way to walk round the quay to
the bit where they all meet.

Paul Scott
2010-08-05 14:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@mail.croydon.ac.uk
Post by Dr. Sunil
I presume the DLR station, being in a separate building, will have its
own numbers/letters (probably the latter?).- Hide quoted text -
Separate building? Couldn't they have built the main station to take
the DLR as well?
The decision to run the DLR beyond Stratford had probably not been made when
the International station was being designed? The latter was finished about
3 years ago, when they had only just got round to the NLL closure for update
to DLR, and the DLR track's general approach was constrained by being where
the old low level NLL had been.

AIUI an approach on the surface on the north side of the HS1 station box was
the only sensible option, as there are buildings on the south side, and
therefore the DLR also had to rise to the surface before crossing HS1

I'm not so sure about running the DLR into the same building either - as
most of it sits over the station box, and it has pedestrian access at both
ends? Also - is the DLR's primary role to feed the international station,
or the housing development to the north, ie the Olympic Village in legacy
mode?

Paul S
Tristan Miller
2010-08-03 08:50:53 UTC
Permalink
Greetings.

In article
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and
barricades (platform
Post by Dr. Sunil
side) had been removed from the new Central
westbound platform (3a),
Post by Dr. Sunil
though the concourse accesses were still
blocked off by hoardings.
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I noticed
this as well. Am I correct in assuming that this will be part of a
Spanish platform system? If so, will either of the platforms be
exclusively for ingress or egress? Or will one or both platform afford
both embarkation and disembarkation?

Regards,
Tristan
--
_
_V.-o
Tristan Miller >< Space is limited
/ |`-'
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <> In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\
http://www.nothingisreal.com/ >< To finish what you
Dr. Sunil
2010-08-03 11:54:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tristan Miller
Greetings.
In article
Post by Dr. Sunil
As of this morning, a lot of the clutter and
barricades (platform> side) had been removed from the new Central
westbound platform (3a),> though the concourse accesses were still
blocked off by hoardings.
Post by Dr. Sunil
Anyone know when it will open?
I noticed
this as well.  Am I correct in assuming that this will be part of a
Spanish platform system?  If so, will either of the platforms be
exclusively for ingress or egress?  Or will one or both platform afford
both embarkation and disembarkation?
Regards,
Tristan
--
   _
  _V.-o
       Tristan Miller          ><  Space is limited
 / |`-'
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  <>  In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\  http://www.nothingisreal.com/ ><  To finish what you
I think the idea is to have one side ingress-only and vice versa. Not
sure which side though! There is a cross-platform interchange to
consider too (platform 5 for Liverpool Street).
Paul Scott
2010-08-03 12:45:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr. Sunil
I think the idea is to have one side ingress-only and vice versa. Not
sure which side though! There is a cross-platform interchange to
consider too (platform 5 for Liverpool Street).
Just can't see it I'm afraid...

Unless you assume all arriving Central Line pax never wish to use P5 into
Liverpool St mainline, (that always seems to be a two way exchange to me
too), and you also assume that no-one from the DLR or Jubilee, or off the
street wants to board the Central Line by the most obvious direct route?

Seems to me that the new P3A will effectively become the default westbound
Central Line platform for entries from the street, and P3 will become the
subsidiary side for cross platform connection to/from NXEA on P5.

The primary benefit seems to be to increase the options for people waiting
for the Central line westbound. One problem anticipated in previous
discussions is pax using a stopped Central Line train as a short cut from P5
to the southern concourse. I can't see how that would be stopped even with
the obvious one way system!

No doubt somewhere there is a document that predicts/explains all the
expected flows - it will be useful when it all goes wrong...

Paul S
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...