Discussion:
Ryanair to axe UK domestic and non-EU routes
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2021-02-04 08:26:10 UTC
Permalink
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domestic-routes/>

Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.

The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.

A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.

Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.

Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.

Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.

The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
tim...
2021-02-04 09:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domestic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
I'm sure EasyJet are rubbing their hands with glee
Recliner
2021-02-04 09:23:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domestic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
I'm sure EasyJet are rubbing their hands with glee
Yup, though I suspect that the real reason FR is dropping those routes is
that they're unprofitable. It would be easy to comply with the CAA's
condition if Ryanair thought it could make money on those routes. Or, of
course, it might just be a threat that FR won't go through with — perhaps
it thinks the CAA will back down?
tim...
2021-02-04 18:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domestic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
I'm sure EasyJet are rubbing their hands with glee
Yup, though I suspect that the real reason FR is dropping those routes is
that they're unprofitable. It would be easy to comply with the CAA's
condition if Ryanair thought it could make money on those routes.
Ryanair doesn't have a policy of operating unprofitable routes.

if they don't meet their required 80% loading, they drop them like a stone

of course that doesn't mean that they would be profitable if they had to pay
UK NMW instead of whatever ruse they are using to not do that ATM
Post by Recliner
Or, of
course, it might just be a threat that FR won't go through with —
seems to me to be precisely what they are doing.
Post by Recliner
perhaps
it thinks the CAA will back down?
I don't see that the CAA has any incentive to do that at all

They don't care if Ryanair drop the routes, and just like me they will
expect someone else to come along and pick up the majority of them
Roland Perry
2021-02-04 10:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?

Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?

[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-04 10:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
Post by Roland Perry
Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?
I'm not sure that EU airlines are still free to fly from the UK to non-EU
countries. Of course, an Irish airline is still able to fly from the UK to
any of the 27 EU countries.
Post by Roland Perry
[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]
Maybe they were suspended due to lack of demand during the lockdown?
Roland Perry
2021-02-04 11:13:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.

But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?
I'm not sure that EU airlines are still free to fly from the UK to non-EU
countries.
Yes, that's a possible candidate for the 'rift' (being 3rd-country to
3rd-country).
Post by Recliner
Of course, an Irish airline is still able to fly from the UK to
any of the 27 EU countries.
But how does one know when booking at Ryanair.com, which airline that
is?
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]
Maybe they were suspended due to lack of demand during the lockdown?
Probably, as are many of the Dublin-UK routes very patchy.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-04 11:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK bases except Stansted. Other UK cities will still
get flights from other, non-UK FR bases.

I don't know if it's up to date, but Wiki lists Belfast, Birmingham, Bournemouth, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh,
Glasgow, Prestwick, Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester and Stansted as UK bases.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ryanair_destinations#List>

So, FR is threatening to close all but one of those UK bases, with the cities served, if at all, by aircraft based
elsewhere.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Meanwhile, is this actually a symptom of a rift in the Open Skies
arrangements, because what they are left with is *all* flights having at
least one end in the EU, and no 3rd-country to 3rd-country flights?
I'm not sure that EU airlines are still free to fly from the UK to non-EU
countries.
Yes, that's a possible candidate for the 'rift' (being 3rd-country to
3rd-country).
Post by Recliner
Of course, an Irish airline is still able to fly from the UK to
any of the 27 EU countries.
But how does one know when booking at Ryanair.com, which airline that
is?
I don't suppose it matters to the traveller. A booking made in the UK is probably a contract with FR-UK, but the actual
flight may be on an FR 738 based outside the UK, as was always the case.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
[Ryanair's website is still offering flights to the listed countries,
though, eg Oslo £14.99 in October; but nothing internal - I must have
missed them scrapping those]
Maybe they were suspended due to lack of demand during the lockdown?
Probably, as are many of the Dublin-UK routes very patchy.
Roland Perry
2021-02-04 12:56:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22, according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.
Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.

At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.
Post by Recliner
Other UK cities will still get flights from other, non-UK FR bases.
I don't know if it's up to date, but Wiki lists Belfast, Birmingham,
Bournemouth, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Prestwick,
Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester and Stansted as UK bases.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ryanair_destinations#List>
So, FR is threatening to close all but one of those UK bases, with the
cities served, if at all, by aircraft based elsewhere.
Yes, I've already listed UK-airports-which-aren't-Stansted getting
flights from Dublin, but that's the only place they seem to be getting
them from.

Is there a transfer passenger market here - Flights from Stansted to
(say) Morocco suspended, but flights from various places to Dublin, then
Dublin to Morocco still running?

[For the purposes of this discussion I'm prepared to accept that Ryanair
won't guarantee such connections, let alone baggage transfer, in Dublin]
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-02-04 13:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair’s use of so-called
“wet-leasing”, where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair’s UK services to be run by “wet leased” aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
“white list” approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA’s Paul Smith said at the time: “A UK airline with a significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft.”
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.
Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.
Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.
Post by Roland Perry
At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.
Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was the latest to prove.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Other UK cities will still get flights from other, non-UK FR bases.
I don't know if it's up to date, but Wiki lists Belfast, Birmingham,
Bournemouth, Bristol, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Prestwick,
Leeds-Bradford, Liverpool, Luton, Manchester and Stansted as UK bases.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ryanair_destinations#List>
So, FR is threatening to close all but one of those UK bases, with the
cities served, if at all, by aircraft based elsewhere.
Yes, I've already listed UK-airports-which-aren't-Stansted getting
flights from Dublin, but that's the only place they seem to be getting
them from.
That might change if the UK bases are closed.
Post by Roland Perry
Is there a transfer passenger market here - Flights from Stansted to
(say) Morocco suspended, but flights from various places to Dublin, then
Dublin to Morocco still running?
It's a long way round, so it would need to be very cheap. If there's a worthwhile market to such non-EU destinations, EZ
would be able to serve them more cost-effectively.
Post by Roland Perry
[For the purposes of this discussion I'm prepared to accept that Ryanair
won't guarantee such connections, let alone baggage transfer, in Dublin]
Yup, that goes without saying!
tim...
2021-02-04 18:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair's use of so-called
"wet-leasing", where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair's UK services to be run by "wet leased" aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
"white list" approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA's Paul Smith said at the time: "A UK airline with a
significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft."
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.
Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.
Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in
FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.
Post by Roland Perry
At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.
Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR
doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was
the latest to prove.
FlyBe operated from marginal airports

a regional network based around a genuine London airport has to be more
viable, even if not to every current (normal world) destination
Recliner
2021-02-04 21:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted airport and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair's use of so-called
"wet-leasing", where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair's UK services to be run by "wet leased" aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft under a
"white list" approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA's Paul Smith said at the time: "A UK airline with a
significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft."
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of 737Max, of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants at least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I don't think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.
Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.
Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in
FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.
Post by Roland Perry
At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.
Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR
doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was
the latest to prove.
FlyBe operated from marginal airports
It also used to have LGW slots, but sold them on its way down the tubes.
Post by tim...
a regional network based around a genuine London airport has to be more
viable, even if not to every current (normal world) destination
Yes, for sure. But FR is still apparently walking away from them,
suggesting that even London routes are not more than marginally profitable.
tim...
2021-02-05 12:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted
airport
and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair's use of so-called
"wet-leasing", where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less than half
of Ryanair's UK services to be run by "wet leased" aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft
under
a
"white list" approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA's Paul Smith said at the time: "A UK airline with a
significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft."
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of
737Max,
of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants
at
least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I
don't
think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.
Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.
Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in
FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.
Post by Roland Perry
At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.
Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR
doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was
the latest to prove.
FlyBe operated from marginal airports
It also used to have LGW slots, but sold them on its way down the tubes.
Post by tim...
a regional network based around a genuine London airport has to be more
viable, even if not to every current (normal world) destination
Yes, for sure. But FR is still apparently walking away from them,
suggesting that even London routes are not more than marginally profitable.
you must have missed my other post

this is nothing more than a hollow threat negotiating tactic

just like the pound to use the toilet headlines of yore
Recliner
2021-02-05 16:43:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/04/ryanair-plans-axe-domes
tic-routes/>
Ryanair's spat with the Civil Aviation Authority escalated on Wednesday
night as plans emerged to axe all domestic routes and all services from
Britain to non-EU countries.
The budget carrier will only operate out of London Stansted
airport
and
will cull 13 routes to Morocco, Ukraine, Montenegro, and Norway.
A row erupted in December between Ryanair and the CAA over
pre-Brexit rule
changes. At the centre of the dispute is Ryanair's use of so-called
"wet-leasing", where airlines hire aircraft and crew to operate
services on
their behalf.
Ryanair only has one UK-registered aircraft. The CAA wanted less
than half
of Ryanair's UK services to be run by "wet leased" aircraft.
Ryanair is believed to have planned to increase its number of UK
registered
aircraft to three by April 2021 and offered a pool of aircraft
under
a
"white list" approach. This was rejected by the CAA on Jan 22,
according to
industry sources.
Ryanair and CAA did not comment on Wednesday night.
The CAA's Paul Smith said at the time: "A UK airline with a
significant
presence in the UK, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased,
foreign-registered aircraft."
Is the wet-leasing something to do with delays in delivery of
737Max,
of
which they've reportedly got 210 on order?
I suspect FR-UK is wet-leasing 738s from FR-Ireland. The CAA wants
at
least
half of FR-UK's non-EU flights to be on UK-registered planes. I
don't
think
it's anything to do with 737 MAX delays, as FR has plenty of 738s, more
than enough to meet current demand.
It's all a bit opaque to the traveller, who might assume that the only
airport "Ryanair" is operating from in the UK is Stansted.
But yes, Ryanair-Ireland is flying from Dublin to all their traditional
destinations in the UK on at least some days of the week, some months in
their schedule.
Yes, I think it means that they are threatening to close all their UK
bases except Stansted.
Who is "they"? The prospect of Ryanair-UK being disjoint from
Ryanair-Eire has already been floated.
Ryanair corporate (ie, O'Leary). There will be little decision-making in
FR-UK, but having those bases would generate
some UK jobs.
Post by Roland Perry
At the moment Ryanair-Stansted isn't running any UK internal flights.
Sure, it looks like they're all suspended for now, during the lockdown. FR
doesn't run near-empty planes. I think, even
in good times, most UK domestic flights are marginal at best, as Flybe was
the latest to prove.
FlyBe operated from marginal airports
It also used to have LGW slots, but sold them on its way down the tubes.
Post by tim...
a regional network based around a genuine London airport has to be more
viable, even if not to every current (normal world) destination
Yes, for sure. But FR is still apparently walking away from them,
suggesting that even London routes are not more than marginally profitable.
you must have missed my other post
this is nothing more than a hollow threat negotiating tactic
Yes, probably, but I don't see any reason for the CAA to give in. Ryanair's
bullying tactic won't work here — let it give up a bunch of UK routes if it
wants.
Post by tim...
just like the pound to use the toilet headlines of yore
That was just to get some free advertising for its low prices.

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