Discussion:
Heathrow runway 3 lawful
Add Reply
Recliner
2020-12-16 10:02:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The Supreme Court has given the go-ahead for LHR R3. Of course, HAL isn't
going to be in any hurry to build it.

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55322340>
Roland Perry
2020-12-16 14:28:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
The Supreme Court has given the go-ahead for LHR R3. Of course, HAL isn't
going to be in any hurry to build it.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55322340>
Actually, it's given the go-ahead for HAL to make a planning application
(which could still fail). According to the lunchtime news they've
largely disbanded the team working on that, so it could take a while.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-12-16 16:52:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The Supreme Court has given the go-ahead for LHR R3. Of course, HAL isn't
going to be in any hurry to build it.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55322340>
Actually, it's given the go-ahead for HAL to make a planning application
(which could still fail). According to the lunchtime news they've
largely disbanded the team working on that, so it could take a while.
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
Arthur Conan Doyle
2020-12-16 17:02:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
This is so true. The costs and impact of trying to change a tyre whilst moving
vs. being able to take a more optimun approach must be significant. The question
will be how to finance this when revenues are down from landing fees and retail
sales.
Recliner
2020-12-16 21:59:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
Post by Recliner
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
This is so true. The costs and impact of trying to change a tyre whilst moving
vs. being able to take a more optimun approach must be significant. The question
will be how to finance this when revenues are down from landing fees and retail
sales.
They want to be able to raise their fees to fund the investment, in the way
that other regulated utilities do. Needless to say, HAL's biggest customer,
IAG, which already has plenty of slots, is furious at the idea.
tim...
2020-12-25 09:18:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
Post by Recliner
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
This is so true. The costs and impact of trying to change a tyre whilst moving
vs. being able to take a more optimun approach must be significant. The question
will be how to finance this when revenues are down from landing fees and retail
sales.
They want to be able to raise their fees to fund the investment, in the way
that other regulated utilities do. Needless to say, HAL's biggest customer,
IAG, which already has plenty of slots, is furious at the idea.
Because it's fundamentally the wrong way to do it

Sainsbury's doesn't put up its prices because it wants to increase the size
of it shops to expand into selling more type of goods

It raises the capital to do that, in the markets, based upon a prospectus
that "promises" the extra income from these new sales will pay back the
loans (with benefits).

Whether those promises are likely to, or not, come to fruition, is for the
banks to evaluate when deciding whether to lend the money, and if they get
it wrong, its the banks shareholders that lose, not the Airport's current
customers.

That way a strictly financial appraisal of the benefits of a scheme are
properly assessed, by the people *qualified* to do it. It isn't just done
because some big-wig head of a corporate happens to be chums with some
politician in an influential position and persuades them to champion it to
Government, over a game of golf.

The argument that LHR is a utility that has to be allowed to expand for the
good of the overall economy is just stuff and nonsense, that shouldn't
enable it to ride roughshod over standard corporate accounting methodology.

It's a purely commercial organisation - it should be told to play by normal
commercial rules

tim
Recliner
2020-12-25 11:02:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
Post by Recliner
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
This is so true. The costs and impact of trying to change a tyre whilst moving
vs. being able to take a more optimun approach must be significant. The question
will be how to finance this when revenues are down from landing fees and retail
sales.
They want to be able to raise their fees to fund the investment, in the way
that other regulated utilities do. Needless to say, HAL's biggest customer,
IAG, which already has plenty of slots, is furious at the idea.
Because it's fundamentally the wrong way to do it
Sainsbury's doesn't put up its prices because it wants to increase the size
of it shops to expand into selling more type of goods
It raises the capital to do that, in the markets, based upon a prospectus
that "promises" the extra income from these new sales will pay back the
loans (with benefits).
Whether those promises are likely to, or not, come to fruition, is for the
banks to evaluate when deciding whether to lend the money, and if they get
it wrong, its the banks shareholders that lose, not the Airport's current
customers.
That way a strictly financial appraisal of the benefits of a scheme are
properly assessed, by the people *qualified* to do it. It isn't just done
because some big-wig head of a corporate happens to be chums with some
politician in an influential position and persuades them to champion it to
Government, over a game of golf.
The argument that LHR is a utility that has to be allowed to expand for the
good of the overall economy is just stuff and nonsense, that shouldn't
enable it to ride roughshod over standard corporate accounting methodology.
It's a purely commercial organisation - it should be told to play by normal
commercial rules
It's not a purely commercial organisation, as its charges are regulated by
the CAA. If it was a purely commercial organisation, it would set its own,
higher, charges. I'm sure it would be delighted to be 'told to play by
normal commercial rules'.
Graeme Wall
2020-12-25 14:09:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
Post by Recliner
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this
opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
This is so true. The costs and impact of trying to change a tyre whilst moving
vs. being able to take a more optimun approach must be significant. The question
will be how to finance this when revenues are down from landing fees and retail
sales.
They want to be able to raise their fees to fund the investment, in the way
that other regulated utilities do. Needless to say, HAL's biggest customer,
IAG, which already has plenty of slots, is furious at the idea.
Because it's fundamentally the wrong way to do it
Sainsbury's doesn't put up its prices because it wants to increase the
size of it shops to expand into selling more type of goods
It raises the capital to do that, in the markets, based upon a
prospectus that "promises" the extra income from these new sales will
pay back the loans (with benefits).
Whether those promises are likely to, or not, come to fruition, is for
the banks to evaluate when deciding whether to lend the money, and if
they get it wrong, its the banks shareholders that lose, not the
Airport's current customers.
That way a strictly financial appraisal of the benefits of a scheme are
properly assessed, by the people *qualified* to do it.  It isn't just
done because some big-wig head of a corporate happens to be chums with
some politician in an influential position and persuades them to
champion it to Government, over a game of golf.
The argument that LHR is a utility that has to be allowed to expand for
the good of the overall economy is just stuff and nonsense, that
shouldn't enable it to ride roughshod over standard corporate accounting
methodology.
It's a purely commercial organisation - it should be told to play by
normal commercial rules
The point is it is a monopoly, if you want to play you have to pay their
prices.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-12-25 14:52:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
Post by Recliner
Oh, I don't think HAL will be in any hurry to pursue this
opportunity. It
currently has much more pressing concerns. It's much more likely to
prioritise the re-development of the central terminals, given the current
low demand. With T3 temporarily closed, there may be an opportunity to
close a wing of it permanently, and accelerate the expansion of T2.
This is so true. The costs and impact of trying to change a tyre whilst moving
vs. being able to take a more optimun approach must be significant. The question
will be how to finance this when revenues are down from landing fees and retail
sales.
They want to be able to raise their fees to fund the investment, in the way
that other regulated utilities do. Needless to say, HAL's biggest customer,
IAG, which already has plenty of slots, is furious at the idea.
Because it's fundamentally the wrong way to do it
Sainsbury's doesn't put up its prices because it wants to increase the
size of it shops to expand into selling more type of goods
It raises the capital to do that, in the markets, based upon a
prospectus that "promises" the extra income from these new sales will
pay back the loans (with benefits).
Whether those promises are likely to, or not, come to fruition, is for
the banks to evaluate when deciding whether to lend the money, and if
they get it wrong, its the banks shareholders that lose, not the
Airport's current customers.
That way a strictly financial appraisal of the benefits of a scheme are
properly assessed, by the people *qualified* to do it.  It isn't just
done because some big-wig head of a corporate happens to be chums with
some politician in an influential position and persuades them to
champion it to Government, over a game of golf.
The argument that LHR is a utility that has to be allowed to expand for
the good of the overall economy is just stuff and nonsense, that
shouldn't enable it to ride roughshod over standard corporate accounting
methodology.
It's a purely commercial organisation - it should be told to play by
normal commercial rules
The point is it is a monopoly, if you want to play you have to pay their
prices.
That's why it's treated as a regulated utility (like a water company), with the regulator controlling the prices. If it
was a purely commercial organisation, it would set its own, probably higher, prices.

IAG likes the fact that LHR is (Covid-apart) always short of capacity, as it controls so much of it. It doesn't want the
capacity to be increased, as that would devalue its own hoard of slots. And it particularly doesn't like having to pay
higher charges to allow HAL to invest in increased capacity. That's a lose-lose for IAG, so expect it to be one of the
loudest voices against the third runway. I'm sure Sean Doyle and Luis Gallego will have all sort of eloquent reasons to
oppose it.

Roland Perry
2020-12-17 06:49:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The Supreme Court has given the go-ahead for LHR R3. Of course, HAL isn't
going to be in any hurry to build it.
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55322340>
Actually, it's given the go-ahead for HAL to make a planning
application (which could still fail). According to the lunchtime news
they've largely disbanded the team working on that, so it could take a
while.
Today's Guardian news (appears to be a "bad loser"):

"The UK's supreme court will refer a lawyer who broke the
embargo on its ruling on Heathrow airport to the attorney
general and the Bar Standards Board for investigation.

Tim Crosland, the director of environmental charity Plan B
Earth, received the ruling in advance as one of the parties
involved in the case, and published his reaction on Tuesday, the
day before the judgment was delivered.

Crosland said he was doing so as an 'act of civil disobedience'
and in protest at the court's finding that the government's
decision to approve the development of a third runway at the
airport was made lawfully with reference to climate targets.
...
The decision means the project can seek planning permission,
however the completion of the runway remains uncertain."
--
Roland Perry
Loading...