Discussion:
I.O.W reopening delayed.
(too old to reply)
M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
2021-05-01 14:55:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-01 17:57:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?


Anna Noyd-Dryver
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-05-01 21:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
Anna Noyd-Dryver
You've never heard of the SPV-2000, I'm guessing.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-02 06:58:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
You've never heard of the SPV-2000, I'm guessing.
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-05-02 15:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
You've never heard of the SPV-2000, I'm guessing.
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Too long to list.
Recliner
2021-05-02 15:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
You've never heard of the SPV-2000, I'm guessing.
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.
Some other sources:

There were a number of plans for their reuse, one of which was to adapt
them for the Piccadilly Line, but a number of technical problems were
encountered, not least the matter of alignment of the doors with platforms
and that the doors were of single leaf design, rather then the 73TS double
doors and that the doors were significantly slower in operation than the
73TS.

<http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave/html/1983_tube_stock.html>

When the trains were being designed, passenger levels on the tube were in
decline but levels picked up dramatically after the trains were built. The
single-leaf doors proved to be a problem for slow unloading and loading at
stations, the resulting increased dwell times causing numerous problems on
the line. There were also problems with reliability of the electrical
equipment. The 1983 Tube Stock bought with it a number of technical
innovations such as Kiepe design traction equipment, unfortunately some of
them proved to be unsuccessful.

<https://topstastic.blogspot.com/2016/10/lu-1983-tube-stock.html>

As well as various electrical/mechanical/structural problems, one of the
reasons for the downfall of the class was the mid-carriage single-leaf
doors, clearly seen here, which extended station dwell times due to the
time it took passengers to join and alight from the carriages through the
relatively narrow door openings.

<https://www.lococarriage.org.uk/acton.html>
M***@3_c.biz
2021-05-02 16:20:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 May 2021 15:36:40 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.
There were a number of plans for their reuse, one of which was to adapt
them for the Piccadilly Line, but a number of technical problems were
encountered, not least the matter of alignment of the doors with platforms
That doesn't make any sense - the picc doesn't have platform doors so what
are they supposed to align with?
Post by Recliner
and that the doors were of single leaf design, rather then the 73TS double
doors and that the doors were significantly slower in operation than the
73TS.
They changed the door motors in the 73 stock (not an improvement IMO but I'm
sure they had their reasons) so they could have done the same with the 83.
Post by Recliner
As well as various electrical/mechanical/structural problems, one of the
reasons for the downfall of the class was the mid-carriage single-leaf
doors, clearly seen here, which extended station dwell times due to the
time it took passengers to join and alight from the carriages through the
relatively narrow door openings.
Not an issue out in the sticks as a shuttle service. And if they were to
enhance the service in the centre rather than replace old 73 stock then
they'd still speed things up regardless of the doors because there'd be less
crush to get on each train. Failing that they could always have just used
them outside rush hour.
Charles Ellson
2021-05-02 19:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@3_c.biz
On Sun, 2 May 2021 15:36:40 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.
There were a number of plans for their reuse, one of which was to adapt
them for the Piccadilly Line, but a number of technical problems were
encountered, not least the matter of alignment of the doors with platforms
That doesn't make any sense - the picc doesn't have platform doors so what
are they supposed to align with?
Future platform doors matched to later stock which wouldn't have
repeated the door pattern ?
The other door alignment problem could be the driver's ability to see
the ATO stopping mark; IIRC there was no view directly to the side of
the driver's seat on 1983TS.
<snip>
M***@6yl_wqrz.net
2021-05-03 08:09:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 02 May 2021 20:22:31 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@3_c.biz
On Sun, 2 May 2021 15:36:40 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.
There were a number of plans for their reuse, one of which was to adapt
them for the Piccadilly Line, but a number of technical problems were
encountered, not least the matter of alignment of the doors with platforms
That doesn't make any sense - the picc doesn't have platform doors so what
are they supposed to align with?
Future platform doors matched to later stock which wouldn't have
repeated the door pattern ?
There are so many curved platforms on the picc I can't see them bothering
with platform doors.
Post by Charles Ellson
The other door alignment problem could be the driver's ability to see
the ATO stopping mark; IIRC there was no view directly to the side of
the driver's seat on 1983TS.
Maybe, but thats hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
M***@x4a.gov
2021-05-04 07:21:57 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 04 May 2021 01:46:52 +0100
On Mon, 3 May 2021 08:09:58 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@6yl_wqrz.net
There are so many curved platforms on the picc I can't see them bothering
with platform doors.
That won't stop the use of platform doors; it just requires a suitable
design.
Why spend the money on trivia when there are far better uses for it. Retro
fitting platform doors is probably a lot more expensive that designing them
in from the start. Plus a lot of victoria/edwardian tube platforms are quite
narrow and adding platform doors would make things even worse.
Post by M***@6yl_wqrz.net
Post by Charles Ellson
The other door alignment problem could be the driver's ability to see
the ATO stopping mark; IIRC there was no view directly to the side of
the driver's seat on 1983TS.
Maybe, but thats hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
Not if the place where you want to insert your window contains a
necessary structural component which would make it cheaper to build a
new vehicle.
I doubt 1 window would influence structural integretary that much. They're
frame based, not monocoque.
Charles Ellson
2021-05-05 02:42:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@x4a.gov
On Tue, 04 May 2021 01:46:52 +0100
On Mon, 3 May 2021 08:09:58 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@6yl_wqrz.net
There are so many curved platforms on the picc I can't see them bothering
with platform doors.
That won't stop the use of platform doors; it just requires a suitable
design.
Why spend the money on trivia when there are far better uses for it. Retro
fitting platform doors is probably a lot more expensive that designing them
in from the start. Plus a lot of victoria/edwardian tube platforms are quite
narrow and adding platform doors would make things even worse.
The doors aren't there for the convenience of the passengers.
Post by M***@x4a.gov
Post by M***@6yl_wqrz.net
Post by Charles Ellson
The other door alignment problem could be the driver's ability to see
the ATO stopping mark; IIRC there was no view directly to the side of
the driver's seat on 1983TS.
Maybe, but thats hardly beyond the wit of man to solve.
Not if the place where you want to insert your window contains a
necessary structural component which would make it cheaper to build a
new vehicle.
I doubt 1 window would influence structural integretary that much. They're
frame based, not monocoque.
If you have a thick piece of frame then it will be thick for a reason
and you won't be wanting to bore holes through it.
However, having now found cab photos in :-
https://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/1983tubeStock/
there is a side view from the driver's seat.
M***@ig0s3f.tv
2021-05-05 08:32:03 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 05 May 2021 03:42:59 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@x4a.gov
On Tue, 04 May 2021 01:46:52 +0100
On Mon, 3 May 2021 08:09:58 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@6yl_wqrz.net
There are so many curved platforms on the picc I can't see them bothering
with platform doors.
That won't stop the use of platform doors; it just requires a suitable
design.
Why spend the money on trivia when there are far better uses for it. Retro
fitting platform doors is probably a lot more expensive that designing them
in from the start. Plus a lot of victoria/edwardian tube platforms are quite
narrow and adding platform doors would make things even worse.
The doors aren't there for the convenience of the passengers.
The doors are meant to be a safety feature. I'm not sure a safety feature that
led to even more crush loading in a station would be signed off. In case
you hadn't noticed all the JLE stations have huge platform areas.
Charles Ellson
2021-05-07 22:35:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@ig0s3f.tv
On Wed, 05 May 2021 03:42:59 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@x4a.gov
On Tue, 04 May 2021 01:46:52 +0100
On Mon, 3 May 2021 08:09:58 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@6yl_wqrz.net
There are so many curved platforms on the picc I can't see them bothering
with platform doors.
That won't stop the use of platform doors; it just requires a suitable
design.
Why spend the money on trivia when there are far better uses for it. Retro
fitting platform doors is probably a lot more expensive that designing them
in from the start. Plus a lot of victoria/edwardian tube platforms are quite
narrow and adding platform doors would make things even worse.
The doors aren't there for the convenience of the passengers.
The doors are meant to be a safety feature. I'm not sure a safety feature that
led to even more crush loading in a station would be signed off. In case
you hadn't noticed all the JLE stations have huge platform areas.
Platform doors on the Underground are part of the environmental
control of more recent tube sections; increased safety is a secondary
benefit. In case you hadn't noticed, most Jubilee Line stations (tube
or surface including some stations on the Stratford extension) don't
have platform doors or unusually wide platforms.
M***@uc6dv0afjxqieeilh.info
2021-05-08 09:15:17 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 07 May 2021 23:35:23 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@ig0s3f.tv
The doors are meant to be a safety feature. I'm not sure a safety feature that
led to even more crush loading in a station would be signed off. In case
you hadn't noticed all the JLE stations have huge platform areas.
Platform doors on the Underground are part of the environmental
control of more recent tube sections; increased safety is a secondary
Rubbish.
Post by Charles Ellson
benefit. In case you hadn't noticed, most Jubilee Line stations (tube
or surface including some stations on the Stratford extension) don't
have platform doors or unusually wide platforms.
Wow, you think there might be a connection??
Charles Ellson
2021-05-08 09:40:53 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:15:17 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@uc6dv0afjxqieeilh.info
On Fri, 07 May 2021 23:35:23 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@ig0s3f.tv
The doors are meant to be a safety feature. I'm not sure a safety feature that
led to even more crush loading in a station would be signed off. In case
you hadn't noticed all the JLE stations have huge platform areas.
Platform doors on the Underground are part of the environmental
control of more recent tube sections; increased safety is a secondary
Rubbish.
Rubbish yourself.
"one of the main reasons (and justifications) for having
PEDs is for ventilation although of course they do have the obvious
benefit of preventing people from falling onto the track."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/safety_of_platform_screen_doors
Post by M***@uc6dv0afjxqieeilh.info
Post by Charles Ellson
benefit. In case you hadn't noticed, most Jubilee Line stations (tube
or surface including some stations on the Stratford extension) don't
have platform doors or unusually wide platforms.
Wow, you think there might be a connection??
M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
2021-05-08 10:26:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:40:53 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:15:17 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@uc6dv0afjxqieeilh.info
On Fri, 07 May 2021 23:35:23 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@ig0s3f.tv
The doors are meant to be a safety feature. I'm not sure a safety feature
that
Post by M***@uc6dv0afjxqieeilh.info
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by M***@ig0s3f.tv
led to even more crush loading in a station would be signed off. In case
you hadn't noticed all the JLE stations have huge platform areas.
Platform doors on the Underground are part of the environmental
control of more recent tube sections; increased safety is a secondary
Rubbish.
Rubbish yourself.
"one of the main reasons (and justifications) for having
PEDs is for ventilation although of course they do have the obvious
benefit of preventing people from falling onto the track."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/safety_of_platform_screen_doors
No idea what that site is , but clearly neither them nor you have ever
been on the tube. The piston effect of the train pulling and pushing air
through the tunnel provides plenty of ventilation into the station. In fact
the doors actually prevent a lot of that leaving some station platforms
uncomfortable on hot days IME when I worked at Canary Wharf particularly
London Bridge.
Mark Goodge
2021-05-08 11:11:37 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 10:26:15 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:40:53 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Rubbish yourself.
"one of the main reasons (and justifications) for having
PEDs is for ventilation although of course they do have the obvious
benefit of preventing people from falling onto the track."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/safety_of_platform_screen_doors
No idea what that site is
Might I suggest that you follow the link and read the documents on the
other end of it, then. It might help you stop looking like an idiot.
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
, but clearly neither them nor you have ever
been on the tube.
It would be a little odd if nobody from TfL had ever been on the tube.

Mark
M***@leg9ob7hfphwapokuczcol.gov
2021-05-08 15:42:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 08 May 2021 12:11:37 +0100
Post by Mark Goodge
On Sat, 8 May 2021 10:26:15 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:40:53 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Rubbish yourself.
"one of the main reasons (and justifications) for having
PEDs is for ventilation although of course they do have the obvious
benefit of preventing people from falling onto the track."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/safety_of_platform_screen_doors
No idea what that site is
Might I suggest that you follow the link and read the documents on the
other end of it, then. It might help you stop looking like an idiot.
They can claim what they like, but back when the JLE was being built the
safety case of platform doors was being pushed by LU in the media. Ventilation
didn't even get a mention.
Post by Mark Goodge
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
, but clearly neither them nor you have ever
been on the tube.
It would be a little odd if nobody from TfL had ever been on the tube.
So Ellson works for TfL?
Charles Ellson
2021-05-08 18:37:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 15:42:45 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@leg9ob7hfphwapokuczcol.gov
On Sat, 08 May 2021 12:11:37 +0100
Post by Mark Goodge
On Sat, 8 May 2021 10:26:15 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:40:53 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Rubbish yourself.
"one of the main reasons (and justifications) for having
PEDs is for ventilation although of course they do have the obvious
benefit of preventing people from falling onto the track."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/safety_of_platform_screen_doors
No idea what that site is
Might I suggest that you follow the link and read the documents on the
other end of it, then. It might help you stop looking like an idiot.
They can claim what they like, but back when the JLE was being built the
safety case of platform doors was being pushed by LU in the media. Ventilation
didn't even get a mention.
Post by Mark Goodge
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
, but clearly neither them nor you have ever
been on the tube.
It would be a little odd if nobody from TfL had ever been on the tube.
So Ellson works for TfL?
Try doing what he suggested, Fudrick.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-08 12:32:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:40:53 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:15:17 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@uc6dv0afjxqieeilh.info
Rubbish.
Rubbish yourself.
"one of the main reasons (and justifications) for having
PEDs is for ventilation although of course they do have the obvious
benefit of preventing people from falling onto the track."
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/safety_of_platform_screen_doors
No idea what that site is ,
It's the official site where Freedom Of Information (FOI) requests are
handled.
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
but clearly neither them nor you have ever
been on the tube. The piston effect of the train pulling and pushing air
through the tunnel provides plenty of ventilation into the station. In fact
the doors actually prevent a lot of that leaving some station platforms
uncomfortable on hot days IME when I worked at Canary Wharf particularly
London Bridge.
The piston effect of the trains pumps hot air around the tunnels from one
station to another, great.

If you visit very hot places like Singapore or Hong Kong you'll find that
almost every underground metro station has full-height platform edge doors
which completely isolate the air in the tunnels from the air in the
platforms. You can then have air-conditioned trains and platforms (both
nice and cool); as you step from train to platform or vv. you can feel a
layer of very hot tunnel air as you step through it (like those heaters
above shop doorways which used to be popular).

Used properly, it can be very effective.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
M***@mw863dgospfe62u.gov
2021-05-08 15:45:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 12:32:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
through the tunnel provides plenty of ventilation into the station. In fact
the doors actually prevent a lot of that leaving some station platforms
uncomfortable on hot days IME when I worked at Canary Wharf particularly
London Bridge.
The piston effect of the trains pumps hot air around the tunnels from one
station to another, great.
No, it pushes some of the hot air out of the station and draws some cold
air in. Next time you're at Holborn stand at the top of the escalators and
you'll see what I mean. No idea why the effect is so strong at that station,
perhaps fewer ventilation shafts.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
If you visit very hot places like Singapore or Hong Kong you'll find that
almost every underground metro station has full-height platform edge doors
which completely isolate the air in the tunnels from the air in the
And LU doesn't. What does that tell you?
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Used properly, it can be very effective.
No doubt. The LU system isn't very effective at it, but it is effective at
stopping people falling on the track. I imagine the reason its not on the
above ground sections of the JLE is that the mechanisms arn't built to
withstand the elements and there'd be constant failures.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-08 17:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@mw863dgospfe62u.gov
On Sat, 8 May 2021 12:32:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
through the tunnel provides plenty of ventilation into the station. In fact
the doors actually prevent a lot of that leaving some station platforms
uncomfortable on hot days IME when I worked at Canary Wharf particularly
London Bridge.
The piston effect of the trains pumps hot air around the tunnels from one
station to another, great.
No, it pushes some of the hot air out of the station and draws some cold
air in. Next time you're at Holborn stand at the top of the escalators and
you'll see what I mean. No idea why the effect is so strong at that station,
perhaps fewer ventilation shafts.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
If you visit very hot places like Singapore or Hong Kong you'll find that
almost every underground metro station has full-height platform edge doors
which completely isolate the air in the tunnels from the air in the
And LU doesn't. What does that tell you?
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Used properly, it can be very effective.
No doubt. The LU system isn't very effective at it, but it is effective at
stopping people falling on the track. I imagine the reason its not on the
above ground sections of the JLE is that the mechanisms arn't built to
withstand the elements and there'd be constant failures.
As I posted last time we discussed this topic, several systems worldwide
have platform edge doors (half height and full height) on open platforms.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-05-08 20:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@mw863dgospfe62u.gov
On Sat, 8 May 2021 12:32:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@wlutjakch0m5.org
through the tunnel provides plenty of ventilation into the station. In fact
the doors actually prevent a lot of that leaving some station platforms
uncomfortable on hot days IME when I worked at Canary Wharf particularly
London Bridge.
The piston effect of the trains pumps hot air around the tunnels from one
station to another, great.
No, it pushes some of the hot air out of the station and draws some cold
air in. Next time you're at Holborn stand at the top of the escalators and
you'll see what I mean. No idea why the effect is so strong at that station,
perhaps fewer ventilation shafts.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
If you visit very hot places like Singapore or Hong Kong you'll find that
almost every underground metro station has full-height platform edge doors
which completely isolate the air in the tunnels from the air in the
And LU doesn't. What does that tell you?
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Used properly, it can be very effective.
No doubt. The LU system isn't very effective at it, but it is effective at
stopping people falling on the track. I imagine the reason its not on the
above ground sections of the JLE is that the mechanisms arn't built to
withstand the elements and there'd be constant failures.
As I posted last time we discussed this topic, several systems worldwide
have platform edge doors (half height and full height) on open platforms.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
St. Petersburg, Tokyo, Brescia, Copenhagen, Paris Metro Lines 1 and 14
etc.
M***@mr4xlbz2_bxdc5.gov
2021-05-09 15:26:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 17:05:19 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@mw863dgospfe62u.gov
No doubt. The LU system isn't very effective at it, but it is effective at
stopping people falling on the track. I imagine the reason its not on the
above ground sections of the JLE is that the mechanisms arn't built to
withstand the elements and there'd be constant failures.
As I posted last time we discussed this topic, several systems worldwide
have platform edge doors (half height and full height) on open platforms.
And I bet those half height doors really work wonders for ventilation, right?
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-09 20:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@mr4xlbz2_bxdc5.gov
On Sat, 8 May 2021 17:05:19 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@mw863dgospfe62u.gov
No doubt. The LU system isn't very effective at it, but it is effective at
stopping people falling on the track. I imagine the reason its not on the
above ground sections of the JLE is that the mechanisms arn't built to
withstand the elements and there'd be constant failures.
As I posted last time we discussed this topic, several systems worldwide
have platform edge doors (half height and full height) on open platforms.
And I bet those half height doors really work wonders for ventilation, right?
If it's an outdoor station then ventilation clearly isn't the purpose of
the PEDs in that instance *rollseyes*


Anna Noyd-Dryver
M***@voisg8xogca0_.eu
2021-05-10 08:18:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 20:55:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@mr4xlbz2_bxdc5.gov
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
As I posted last time we discussed this topic, several systems worldwide
have platform edge doors (half height and full height) on open platforms.
And I bet those half height doors really work wonders for ventilation, right?
If it's an outdoor station then ventilation clearly isn't the purpose of
the PEDs in that instance *rollseyes*
Oh ok, so there are different reasons for having the doors depending on
whether they're inside or outside and by inference you do apparently think
half height doors make a difference to ventilation. Got it, thanks for clearing
that up.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-10 09:33:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@voisg8xogca0_.eu
On Sun, 9 May 2021 20:55:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@mr4xlbz2_bxdc5.gov
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
As I posted last time we discussed this topic, several systems worldwide
have platform edge doors (half height and full height) on open platforms.
And I bet those half height doors really work wonders for ventilation, right?
If it's an outdoor station then ventilation clearly isn't the purpose of
the PEDs in that instance *rollseyes*
Oh ok, so there are different reasons for having the doors depending on
whether they're inside or outside and by inference you do apparently think
half height doors make a difference to ventilation. Got it, thanks for clearing
that up.
Not at all. Whether an installation of PEDs is for safety, ventilation or
both depends on the individual network and location; clearly half-height
ones have no influence on ventilation and neither do outdoors installations
no matter what height - unless, I suppose, they allow an entirely enclosed
platform area to be airconditioned, whilst the trains are out in the rain
(I think I have experienced this in Taiwan, unfortunately my photographs
and memories aren't specific enough about the aircon-ness of the station
building).


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-02 19:07:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
You've never heard of the SPV-2000, I'm guessing.
I have now; Wikipedia unfortunately appears to be pretty light on detail
about what was wrong with them.
There were a number of plans for their reuse, one of which was to adapt
them for the Piccadilly Line,
[snip woes of 83ts]

I was referring to the American single car DMU "SPV-2000", as referenced by
Hounslow above.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Clive D.W. Feather
2021-05-03 16:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and
comes
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
from ticket receipts and central government.
When the trains were being designed, passenger levels on the tube were in
decline but levels picked up dramatically after the trains were built. The
single-leaf doors proved to be a problem for slow unloading and loading at
stations, the resulting increased dwell times causing numerous problems on
the line.
My understanding is that it wasn't that simple.

When the Jubilee opened, nearly all passengers were going from north of
Baker Street to south of it, or vice versa, or were changing at Baker
Street. That meant that the only station where there would be a
significant number of people boarding *and* a significant number
alighting was Baker Street itself. Therefore the single-leaf doors were
seen as reasonable since they kept the warmth in better in the (many)
open stations.

Once JLE opened, this passenger flow pattern would no longer apply and
the trains weren't suitable any more. As others have said, nobody could
find a good use for them at an economic price.

/me wonders if, today, Vivarail would have taken them.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
Recliner
2021-05-03 20:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and
comes
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
from ticket receipts and central government.
When the trains were being designed, passenger levels on the tube were in
decline but levels picked up dramatically after the trains were built. The
single-leaf doors proved to be a problem for slow unloading and loading at
stations, the resulting increased dwell times causing numerous problems on
the line.
My understanding is that it wasn't that simple.
When the Jubilee opened, nearly all passengers were going from north of
Baker Street to south of it, or vice versa, or were changing at Baker
Street. That meant that the only station where there would be a
significant number of people boarding *and* a significant number
alighting was Baker Street itself. Therefore the single-leaf doors were
seen as reasonable since they kept the warmth in better in the (many)
open stations.
Once JLE opened, this passenger flow pattern would no longer apply and
the trains weren't suitable any more. As others have said, nobody could
find a good use for them at an economic price.
/me wonders if, today, Vivarail would have taken them.
I very much doubt it: no room for diesel general sets or large traction
batteries under the floor, and completely unsuitable for NR lines. Also,
which railway would want LU Tube stock that wasn't good enough for LU? The
IoW had turned it down, too.

But why wasn't it used to replace the 72TS on the Bakerloo, just as it had
done on the Jubilee?
Charles Ellson
2021-05-04 00:59:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 May 2021 20:31:26 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and
comes
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
from ticket receipts and central government.
When the trains were being designed, passenger levels on the tube were in
decline but levels picked up dramatically after the trains were built. The
single-leaf doors proved to be a problem for slow unloading and loading at
stations, the resulting increased dwell times causing numerous problems on
the line.
My understanding is that it wasn't that simple.
When the Jubilee opened, nearly all passengers were going from north of
Baker Street to south of it, or vice versa, or were changing at Baker
Street. That meant that the only station where there would be a
significant number of people boarding *and* a significant number
alighting was Baker Street itself. Therefore the single-leaf doors were
seen as reasonable since they kept the warmth in better in the (many)
open stations.
Once JLE opened, this passenger flow pattern would no longer apply and
the trains weren't suitable any more. As others have said, nobody could
find a good use for them at an economic price.
/me wonders if, today, Vivarail would have taken them.
I very much doubt it: no room for diesel general sets or large traction
batteries under the floor, and completely unsuitable for NR lines. Also,
which railway would want LU Tube stock that wasn't good enough for LU? The
IoW had turned it down, too.
But why wasn't it used to replace the 72TS on the Bakerloo, just as it had
done on the Jubilee?
Were there enough fit for use ? Reliability was a problem;
refurbishment cost for use on other lines was also not a lot cheaper
than simply buying new stock.
Recliner
2021-05-04 01:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
On Mon, 3 May 2021 20:31:26 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and
comes
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
from ticket receipts and central government.
When the trains were being designed, passenger levels on the tube were in
decline but levels picked up dramatically after the trains were built. The
single-leaf doors proved to be a problem for slow unloading and loading at
stations, the resulting increased dwell times causing numerous problems on
the line.
My understanding is that it wasn't that simple.
When the Jubilee opened, nearly all passengers were going from north of
Baker Street to south of it, or vice versa, or were changing at Baker
Street. That meant that the only station where there would be a
significant number of people boarding *and* a significant number
alighting was Baker Street itself. Therefore the single-leaf doors were
seen as reasonable since they kept the warmth in better in the (many)
open stations.
Once JLE opened, this passenger flow pattern would no longer apply and
the trains weren't suitable any more. As others have said, nobody could
find a good use for them at an economic price.
/me wonders if, today, Vivarail would have taken them.
I very much doubt it: no room for diesel general sets or large traction
batteries under the floor, and completely unsuitable for NR lines. Also,
which railway would want LU Tube stock that wasn't good enough for LU? The
IoW had turned it down, too.
But why wasn't it used to replace the 72TS on the Bakerloo, just as it had
done on the Jubilee?
Were there enough fit for use ? Reliability was a problem;
refurbishment cost for use on other lines was also not a lot cheaper
than simply buying new stock.
Why would they have needed refurbishment to run on the Bakerloo? Just
change the line diagrams.
Charles Ellson
2021-05-05 02:49:30 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 May 2021 01:22:43 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Charles Ellson
On Mon, 3 May 2021 20:31:26 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and
comes
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
from ticket receipts and central government.
When the trains were being designed, passenger levels on the tube were in
decline but levels picked up dramatically after the trains were built. The
single-leaf doors proved to be a problem for slow unloading and loading at
stations, the resulting increased dwell times causing numerous problems on
the line.
My understanding is that it wasn't that simple.
When the Jubilee opened, nearly all passengers were going from north of
Baker Street to south of it, or vice versa, or were changing at Baker
Street. That meant that the only station where there would be a
significant number of people boarding *and* a significant number
alighting was Baker Street itself. Therefore the single-leaf doors were
seen as reasonable since they kept the warmth in better in the (many)
open stations.
Once JLE opened, this passenger flow pattern would no longer apply and
the trains weren't suitable any more. As others have said, nobody could
find a good use for them at an economic price.
/me wonders if, today, Vivarail would have taken them.
I very much doubt it: no room for diesel general sets or large traction
batteries under the floor, and completely unsuitable for NR lines. Also,
which railway would want LU Tube stock that wasn't good enough for LU? The
IoW had turned it down, too.
But why wasn't it used to replace the 72TS on the Bakerloo, just as it had
done on the Jubilee?
Were there enough fit for use ? Reliability was a problem;
refurbishment cost for use on other lines was also not a lot cheaper
than simply buying new stock.
Why would they have needed refurbishment to run on the Bakerloo? Just
change the line diagrams.
And fix all the other problems which made them unwanted on the Jubilee
Line.
Recliner
2021-05-01 22:51:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
Given that it was based on the pretty successful D78, I wonder how they got
it so wrong?
M***@khah75.org
2021-05-02 15:59:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:51:24 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and
comes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
Given that it was based on the pretty successful D78, I wonder how they got
it so wrong?
There was little wrong with them from a passengers POV. I travelled on them
and found them much more pleasent than the other tired tube offerings at the
time.
Nigel Emery
2021-05-04 21:33:51 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 May 2021 22:51:24 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Given that it was based on the pretty successful D78, I wonder how they got
it so wrong?
I worked on Jubilee Line extension stock in a minor way! GKN Defence
(yes you read that right) were the UK company working with whichever
of the Japanese companies ( Kawasaki Heavy Industries I think) were up
against Metro-Cammell. Kawasaki had had a bad experience doing a
refurbishment project on the New York metro so didn't want to go there
again. lt was clear London Underground didn't want to split the new
build and the refurbishment contracts so our consortium priced the job
to make the new build look more attractive. As that's what happened we
assumed the others bidders had done the same. 30 years on finding a
separate company to undertake the refurbishment would be much easier
than it was in the early 90s. Had we have won the body shells would
have been made in Japan with fit out and commission at the Telford
site. A short test track next to our existing Fighting Vehicle test
track was planned. We didn't have a rail connection which seemed a bit
of a problem to me but at that time that was well above my pay grade!
M***@ohhjvivu0olg1flppam.org
2021-05-05 08:35:13 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 04 May 2021 22:33:51 +0100
Post by Nigel Emery
than it was in the early 90s. Had we have won the body shells would
have been made in Japan
Good thing you didn't then.
Post by Nigel Emery
site. A short test track next to our existing Fighting Vehicle test
track was planned. We didn't have a rail connection which seemed a bit
of a problem to me but at that time that was well above my pay grade!
Wasn't a problem for the 2009 stock that was idiotically made too big** to fit
on the piccadilly line so couldn't be taken to the victoria by rail and so
had to be bunged on the back of lorries to jam up north london roads
instead.

** Yet the design wastes huge amounts of space internally by pushing the seats
4 or 5 inches inwards from the windows with a ledge.
Nigel Emery
2021-05-05 20:03:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 May 2021 08:35:13 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@ohhjvivu0olg1flppam.org
Good thing you didn't then.
No argument from me there! The irony was having at that point build
300 or so Warrior AVFs we'd have had no problem with the aluminium
welding!
Charles Ellson
2021-05-07 22:47:06 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 May 2021 08:35:13 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@ohhjvivu0olg1flppam.org
On Tue, 04 May 2021 22:33:51 +0100
Post by Nigel Emery
than it was in the early 90s. Had we have won the body shells would
have been made in Japan
Good thing you didn't then.
Post by Nigel Emery
site. A short test track next to our existing Fighting Vehicle test
track was planned. We didn't have a rail connection which seemed a bit
of a problem to me but at that time that was well above my pay grade!
Wasn't a problem for the 2009 stock that was idiotically made too big** to fit
on the piccadilly line
It was actually made to fit the Victoria Line.
<snip>
M***@397o21tdpa.info
2021-05-08 09:16:40 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 07 May 2021 23:47:06 +0100
Post by Nigel Emery
On Wed, 5 May 2021 08:35:13 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@ohhjvivu0olg1flppam.org
On Tue, 04 May 2021 22:33:51 +0100
Post by Nigel Emery
than it was in the early 90s. Had we have won the body shells would
have been made in Japan
Good thing you didn't then.
Post by Nigel Emery
site. A short test track next to our existing Fighting Vehicle test
track was planned. We didn't have a rail connection which seemed a bit
of a problem to me but at that time that was well above my pay grade!
Wasn't a problem for the 2009 stock that was idiotically made too big** to fit
on the piccadilly line
It was actually made to fit the Victoria Line.
<snip>
You are really full of amazing facts today.

Yes, we know that, but in doing so it has to be taken to the line by road
not rail. If they had used the extra space inside the train it might have
been worth it, but they wasted so much of it that there's no more room than
in any other stock.
Charles Ellson
2021-05-08 09:44:17 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:16:40 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@397o21tdpa.info
On Fri, 07 May 2021 23:47:06 +0100
Post by Nigel Emery
On Wed, 5 May 2021 08:35:13 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@ohhjvivu0olg1flppam.org
On Tue, 04 May 2021 22:33:51 +0100
Post by Nigel Emery
than it was in the early 90s. Had we have won the body shells would
have been made in Japan
Good thing you didn't then.
Post by Nigel Emery
site. A short test track next to our existing Fighting Vehicle test
track was planned. We didn't have a rail connection which seemed a bit
of a problem to me but at that time that was well above my pay grade!
Wasn't a problem for the 2009 stock that was idiotically made too big** to fit
on the piccadilly line
It was actually made to fit the Victoria Line.
<snip>
You are really full of amazing facts today.
Yes, we know that, but in doing so it has to be taken to the line by road
not rail. If they had used the extra space inside the train it might have
been worth it, but they wasted so much of it that there's no more room than
in any other stock.
You seem to have missed
1)The presence of a maintenance depot at Northumberland Park.
2)The use of road transport for moving stock to/from LU depots on
other Underground lines.
M***@muxseda190g08z.org
2021-05-08 10:27:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:44:17 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:16:40 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@397o21tdpa.info
Yes, we know that, but in doing so it has to be taken to the line by road
not rail. If they had used the extra space inside the train it might have
been worth it, but they wasted so much of it that there's no more room than
in any other stock.
You seem to have missed
1)The presence of a maintenance depot at Northumberland Park.
No!! Is it?? Who knew! Take a look at a map - its well south of the north
circular, never mind the M25 and on a very busy road.
Post by Charles Ellson
2)The use of road transport for moving stock to/from LU depots on
other Underground lines.
Not always and it also prevents the stock easily being taken to Neasden
for major overhauls.
Recliner
2021-05-08 10:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@muxseda190g08z.org
On Sat, 08 May 2021 10:44:17 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sat, 8 May 2021 09:16:40 +0000 (UTC),
Post by M***@397o21tdpa.info
Yes, we know that, but in doing so it has to be taken to the line by road
not rail. If they had used the extra space inside the train it might have
been worth it, but they wasted so much of it that there's no more room than
in any other stock.
You seem to have missed
1)The presence of a maintenance depot at Northumberland Park.
No!! Is it?? Who knew! Take a look at a map - its well south of the north
circular, never mind the M25 and on a very busy road.
It's also right next to a railway line, and it would have been easy to
establish at least a temporary connection for delivering the fleet. That
would have been much easier than using the usual Ruislip connection.
Post by M***@muxseda190g08z.org
Post by Charles Ellson
2)The use of road transport for moving stock to/from LU depots on
other Underground lines.
Not always and it also prevents the stock easily being taken to Neasden
for major overhauls.
Why would Victoria line stock be taken to the Jubilee and Met lines depot
at Neasden for overhauls?
M***@yy_20dc9ex.info
2021-05-08 15:40:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 8 May 2021 10:53:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@muxseda190g08z.org
No!! Is it?? Who knew! Take a look at a map - its well south of the north
circular, never mind the M25 and on a very busy road.
It's also right next to a railway line, and it would have been easy to
establish at least a temporary connection for delivering the fleet. That
would have been much easier than using the usual Ruislip connection.
Yes, I'm sure network rail would jump at the chance to close a track on a
main commuter line to link up to the depot in order for LU to get their
trains.

In fact there was a link once but it was removed.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@muxseda190g08z.org
Not always and it also prevents the stock easily being taken to Neasden
for major overhauls.
Why would Victoria line stock be taken to the Jubilee and Met lines depot
at Neasden for overhauls?
Neasden is (or perhaps was) where all stock got major overhauls. The other
depots don't have all the equipment.
Recliner
2021-05-09 00:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@yy_20dc9ex.info
On Sat, 8 May 2021 10:53:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@muxseda190g08z.org
No!! Is it?? Who knew! Take a look at a map - its well south of the north
circular, never mind the M25 and on a very busy road.
It's also right next to a railway line, and it would have been easy to
establish at least a temporary connection for delivering the fleet. That
would have been much easier than using the usual Ruislip connection.
Yes, I'm sure network rail would jump at the chance to close a track on a
main commuter line to link up to the depot in order for LU to get their
trains.
Why would it have to close a track? And the Ruislip connection is also on
a busy commuter and regional main line to Birmingham.
Post by M***@yy_20dc9ex.info
In fact there was a link once but it was removed.
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@muxseda190g08z.org
Not always and it also prevents the stock easily being taken to Neasden
for major overhauls.
Why would Victoria line stock be taken to the Jubilee and Met lines depot
at Neasden for overhauls?
Neasden is (or perhaps was) where all stock got major overhauls.
You're years out of date.
Post by M***@yy_20dc9ex.info
The other depots don't have all the equipment.
And nor does Neasden. It's just the Met and secondary Jubilee depot.
M***@5qjc2csle9w5.eu
2021-05-09 15:18:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 00:18:30 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@yy_20dc9ex.info
Yes, I'm sure network rail would jump at the chance to close a track on a
main commuter line to link up to the depot in order for LU to get their
trains.
Why would it have to close a track? And the Ruislip connection is also on
I suppose they could do it at 2 in the morning, but they certainly couldn't
do it in the day without seriously impacting the local mainline services.
Post by Recliner
a busy commuter and regional main line to Birmingham.
The odd DMU now and then doesn't really compare to an electrified surburban
line.
Recliner
2021-05-09 15:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@5qjc2csle9w5.eu
On Sun, 9 May 2021 00:18:30 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@yy_20dc9ex.info
Yes, I'm sure network rail would jump at the chance to close a track on a
main commuter line to link up to the depot in order for LU to get their
trains.
Why would it have to close a track? And the Ruislip connection is also on
I suppose they could do it at 2 in the morning, but they certainly couldn't
do it in the day without seriously impacting the local mainline services.
Post by Recliner
a busy commuter and regional main line to Birmingham.
The odd DMU now and then doesn't really compare to an electrified surburban
line.
What makes an electrified line special? Ruislip also sees frequent
loco-hauled express trains — how many of those pass the Victoria line
depot?
M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
2021-05-09 15:46:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:35:42 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@5qjc2csle9w5.eu
The odd DMU now and then doesn't really compare to an electrified surburban
line.
What makes an electrified line special? Ruislip also sees frequent
Hmm, an electrified suburban commuter service out of liverpool street that
serves large parts of north east london, hertforshire and essex vs a line
that meanders its way to High Wycombe passing through not many stations
on the way.... tricky.....
Post by Recliner
loco-hauled express trains — how many of those pass the Victoria line
depot?
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Recliner
2021-05-09 15:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:35:42 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@5qjc2csle9w5.eu
The odd DMU now and then doesn't really compare to an electrified surburban
line.
What makes an electrified line special? Ruislip also sees frequent
Hmm, an electrified suburban commuter service out of liverpool street that
serves large parts of north east london, hertforshire and essex vs a line
that meanders its way to High Wycombe passing through not many stations
on the way.... tricky.....
Post by Recliner
loco-hauled express trains — how many of those pass the Victoria line
depot?
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
2021-05-09 16:20:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-09 20:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Certes
2021-05-09 22:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Recliner
2021-05-09 22:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Aren't those now ECS, not parly? They're not shown on departure board at
West Ealing.

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/50568885808/in/album-72157716758978336/lightbox/>
M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
2021-05-10 08:24:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
tim...
2021-05-10 09:23:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do

they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way

And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a leisurely tour
going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Graeme Wall
2021-05-10 16:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a leisurely
tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
tim...
2021-05-10 19:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a leisurely
tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back to the
80s for these

They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn

IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
Graeme Wall
2021-05-10 20:18:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back to
the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Post by tim...
They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn
IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
Don't remember those. I did Southampton - Reading - Edinburgh and return
by HST but that was an XC service of course.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
ColinR
2021-05-10 21:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Post by tim...
They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn
IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
Don't remember those. I did Southampton - Reading - Edinburgh and return
by HST but that was an XC service of course.
Of course,it was easier in early days:

Southampton dep 0733 through train to York, Newcastle, Edinburgh and
Glasgow weekdays.
Timetable I have is not clear as to return times.

OK, it was a while ago, in 1933 via the DN&S ;-)

(Oxford Publishing, ISBN 0-86093-149-8)
--
Colin
Sam Wilson
2021-05-10 21:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ColinR
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your
knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Post by tim...
They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn
IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
Don't remember those. I did Southampton - Reading - Edinburgh and return
by HST but that was an XC service of course.
Southampton dep 0733 through train to York, Newcastle, Edinburgh and
Glasgow weekdays.
Timetable I have is not clear as to return times.
OK, it was a while ago, in 1933 via the DN&S ;-)
(Oxford Publishing, ISBN 0-86093-149-8)
So what was the arrival time?

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
ColinR
2021-05-11 13:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by ColinR
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your
knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham.
Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Post by tim...
They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn
IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
Don't remember those. I did Southampton - Reading - Edinburgh and return
by HST but that was an XC service of course.
Southampton dep 0733 through train to York, Newcastle, Edinburgh and
Glasgow weekdays.
Timetable I have is not clear as to return times.
OK, it was a while ago, in 1933 via the DN&S ;-)
(Oxford Publishing, ISBN 0-86093-149-8)
So what was the arrival time?
Sam
Unfortunately the timetable only goes as far as Didcot with the
additional notation as footnote showing through service as above.

Many other DN&S timetables in the book, but only showing through
services to ex-GWR places such a Birmingham etc.
--
Colin
Graeme Wall
2021-05-11 06:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ColinR
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your
knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Post by tim...
They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn
IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
Don't remember those. I did Southampton - Reading - Edinburgh and
return by HST but that was an XC service of course.
Southampton dep 0733 through train to York, Newcastle, Edinburgh and
Glasgow weekdays.
Timetable I have is not clear as to return times.
OK, it was a while ago, in 1933 via the DN&S ;-)
(Oxford Publishing, ISBN 0-86093-149-8)
A little before my time.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Certes
2021-05-10 22:08:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Paddington-Birmingham via Oxford certainly lasted into the 80s, with
some trains continuing to Manchester, Liverpool, etc. and even one a
day via High Wycombe.
Graeme Wall
2021-05-11 06:16:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your
knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Paddington-Birmingham via Oxford certainly lasted into the 80s, with
some trains continuing to Manchester, Liverpool, etc. and even one a
day via High Wycombe.
The Birmingham expresses were the last King-hauled and amongst the
earliest Class 52 hauled. I saw the first 25 of the latter almost
sequentially running through Beaconsfield as they entered traffic.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
ColinR
2021-05-11 13:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Certes
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than
your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham.
Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Paddington-Birmingham via Oxford certainly lasted into the 80s, with
some trains continuing to Manchester, Liverpool, etc. and even one a
day via High Wycombe.
The Birmingham expresses were the last King-hauled and amongst the
earliest Class 52 hauled. I saw the first 25 of the latter almost
sequentially running through Beaconsfield as they entered traffic.
I did travel from Paddington to Machynlleth on the Cambrian Coast
Express in the late 50s, but cannot recall the route. Clearly from
Wikipedia it went via Birmingham so I assume not via Reading.
--
Colin
tim...
2021-05-11 16:30:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Certes
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your
knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham.
Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when
they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and
bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back
to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Paddington-Birmingham via Oxford certainly lasted into the 80s, with
some trains continuing to Manchester, Liverpool, etc. and even one a
day via High Wycombe.
The Birmingham expresses were the last King-hauled and amongst the
earliest Class 52 hauled. I saw the first 25 of the latter almost
sequentially running through Beaconsfield as they entered traffic.
I did travel from Paddington to Machynlleth on the Cambrian Coast Express
in the late 50s, but cannot recall the route. Clearly from Wikipedia it
went via Birmingham so I assume not via Reading.
1953 Bradshaw's

11:10 Paddington to Aberystwyth arr 5:17 - Through Carriage Wednesday and
Saturday only - via Reading and Birmingham
--
Colin
ColinR
2021-05-11 20:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by ColinR
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Certes
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than
your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham.
Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML
when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe
and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a
leisurely tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go
back to the 80s for these
I was going back to the 60s :-)
Paddington-Birmingham via Oxford certainly lasted into the 80s, with
some trains continuing to Manchester, Liverpool, etc. and even one a
day via High Wycombe.
The Birmingham expresses were the last King-hauled and amongst the
earliest Class 52 hauled. I saw the first 25 of the latter almost
sequentially running through Beaconsfield as they entered traffic.
I did travel from Paddington to Machynlleth on the Cambrian Coast
Express in the late 50s, but cannot recall the route. Clearly from
Wikipedia it went via Birmingham so I assume not via Reading.
1953 Bradshaw's
11:10 Paddington to Aberystwyth arr 5:17 - Through Carriage Wednesday
and Saturday only - via Reading and Birmingham
Post by ColinR
--
Colin
Thanks

Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-10 22:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
But they do
they focus on the much cheaper fares that you can get going that way
And in case you haven't noticed, starting at Padd requires a leisurely
tour going West, and it is a service that used to exist
Castle hauled last time I did it! Only as far as High Wycombe though.
I was thinking of the via Reading services, probably have to go back to the
80s for these
They were there to serve the Reading to Brun corridor, but increased
frequency of trains from the South Coast saw them them being withdrawn
IIRC there was even an Edinburgh or Glasgow service from Padd via Reading
The services into Paddington lasted until 2003
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_CrossCountry>


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Recliner
2021-05-10 09:53:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
On Sun, 9 May 2021 23:04:54 +0100
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@b_nmz330_bymc3zupjs.edu
On Sun, 09 May 2021 15:55:04 GMT
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@jj6wgeif4q1tu.eu
Express trains on the wycombe line?
Amazingly, your knowledge of geography is even worse than your knowledge of
engineering or railways!
Oh sorry, I forgot, you think its a main line to birmingham. Yes, why would
anyone get a train direct from euston to brum on the WCML when they could
fart around getting there from paddington going via wycombe and bicester
at a leisurely pace in a diesel train.
Paddington?!?!?
Yes, why would anyone get a train direct from Marylebone when they could
fart around at West Ealing waiting for a parliamentary to West Ruislip?
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.

In terms of distance:

MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains

So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Didn't know chiltern went to brum but looking at the 1:50 it takes to get
there I'm not surprised they don't bother advertising the service.
They don't need to. Not everyone shares your extreme degree of ignorance,
and many people prefer Marylebone and Moor Street to Euston and New Street,
plus the Chiltern trains are cheaper, more spacious and much more
comfortable. Not surprisingly, they're very popular.
M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
2021-05-10 10:27:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 09:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.
Yes, because I meant west immediately from the station obviously, not the
fact that it heads off via ruislip which is barely a few miles north of
marylebone albeit 15 miles west of it.

I see you're back in plank mode.
Post by Recliner
MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains
So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
And? It takes longer.
Post by Recliner
They don't need to. Not everyone shares your extreme degree of ignorance,
and many people prefer Marylebone and Moor Street to Euston and New Street,
plus the Chiltern trains are cheaper, more spacious and much more
comfortable. Not surprisingly, they're very popular.
If you say so. Personally I can do without the sound of a large diesel engine
under my seat for 2 hours but each to their own.
Recliner
2021-05-10 10:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
On Mon, 10 May 2021 09:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.
Yes, because I meant west immediately from the station obviously, not the
fact that it heads off via ruislip which is barely a few miles north of
marylebone albeit 15 miles west of it.
With your F in geography, you obviously never discovered that Birmingham is
well to the west of London. The Chiltern route to it is more direct than
the Euston route.
<Loading Image...>
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
I see you're back in plank mode.
Post by Recliner
MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains
So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
And? It takes longer.
Post by Recliner
They don't need to. Not everyone shares your extreme degree of ignorance,
and many people prefer Marylebone and Moor Street to Euston and New Street,
plus the Chiltern trains are cheaper, more spacious and much more
comfortable. Not surprisingly, they're very popular.
If you say so. Personally I can do without the sound of a large diesel engine
under my seat for 2 hours but each to their own.
You obviously failed to note my reference to loco-hauled express trains.
How many passengers do you think have seats over a large diesel engine in
these trains?
<Loading Image...>
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-10 10:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
On Mon, 10 May 2021 09:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.
Yes, because I meant west immediately from the station obviously, not the
fact that it heads off via ruislip which is barely a few miles north of
marylebone albeit 15 miles west of it.
I see you're back in plank mode.
Post by Recliner
MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains
So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
And? It takes longer.
Post by Recliner
They don't need to. Not everyone shares your extreme degree of ignorance,
and many people prefer Marylebone and Moor Street to Euston and New Street,
plus the Chiltern trains are cheaper, more spacious and much more
comfortable. Not surprisingly, they're very popular.
If you say so. Personally I can do without the sound of a large diesel engine
under my seat for 2 hours but each to their own.
It's a good thing that the large diesel engine is in its own self-contained
vehicle at one end of the train, then.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Certes
2021-05-10 10:59:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
On Mon, 10 May 2021 09:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.
Yes, because I meant west immediately from the station obviously, not the
fact that it heads off via ruislip which is barely a few miles north of
marylebone albeit 15 miles west of it.
I see you're back in plank mode.
Post by Recliner
MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains
So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
And? It takes longer.
Post by Recliner
They don't need to. Not everyone shares your extreme degree of ignorance,
and many people prefer Marylebone and Moor Street to Euston and New Street,
plus the Chiltern trains are cheaper, more spacious and much more
comfortable. Not surprisingly, they're very popular.
If you say so. Personally I can do without the sound of a large diesel engine
under my seat for 2 hours but each to their own.
It's a good thing that the large diesel engine is in its own self-contained
vehicle at one end of the train, then.
Some strange people even seem to enjoy sitting immediately behind it.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-10 11:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Certes
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
If you say so. Personally I can do without the sound of a large diesel engine
under my seat for 2 hours but each to their own.
It's a good thing that the large diesel engine is in its own self-contained
vehicle at one end of the train, then.
Some strange people even seem to enjoy sitting immediately behind it.
What strange behaviour! *lol*


Anna Noyd-Dryver
tim...
2021-05-10 13:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
On Mon, 10 May 2021 09:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.
Yes, because I meant west immediately from the station obviously, not the
fact that it heads off via ruislip which is barely a few miles north of
marylebone albeit 15 miles west of it.
I see you're back in plank mode.
Post by Recliner
MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains
So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
And? It takes longer.
because it's twin track that has to fit stopping services in between express
services, thus restricting the speed of those express services
Recliner
2021-05-10 15:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by M***@yzt7nqf05k0ks5hzk5.eu
On Mon, 10 May 2021 09:53:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
With your F grade in geography, you probably also don't know that the
northbound line from Marylebone passes over the line from Euston at South
Hampstead. The former GCR line is headed almost directly due north, while
the former LNWR line is headed south west on its meandering route to
Birmingham. So the Euston route heads west first, while the Marylebone
route heads north first.
Yes, because I meant west immediately from the station obviously, not the
fact that it heads off via ruislip which is barely a few miles north of
marylebone albeit 15 miles west of it.
I see you're back in plank mode.
Post by Recliner
MYB-BMO: 111.56 miles.chains
EUS-BHM: 112.73 miles.chains
So the Marylebone routes is actually slightly shorter.
And? It takes longer.
because it's twin track that has to fit stopping services in between express
services, thus restricting the speed of those express services
They do flight the services, plus there are some overtaking opportunities
along the route. However, Chiltern does make some stops with its Main Line
services, as they're more of a regional service that serves towns along the
route, rather than being a non-stop London-Birmingham express.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-05-10 10:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Didn't know chiltern went to brum [...] I'm not surprised they don't
bother advertising the service.
It's their flagship loco-hauled service with plug-door Mk 3s, I don't know
where you get the idea that they try to hide it?

It's mentioned in their google 'summany' or whatever the correct term is,
on the front page of their website and in the drop-down menu of their
website.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Guy Gorton
2021-05-10 16:07:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 10 May 2021 10:45:21 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Didn't know chiltern went to brum [...] I'm not surprised they don't
bother advertising the service.
It's their flagship loco-hauled service with plug-door Mk 3s, I don't know
where you get the idea that they try to hide it?
It's mentioned in their google 'summany' or whatever the correct term is,
on the front page of their website and in the drop-down menu of their
website.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Comfortable, fast enough, Moor Street quite central. Easy walk to New
Street. Can avoid New Street if journeying further north by going on
to Smethwick to catch a northbound service.

Guy Gorton
Basil Jet
2021-05-11 16:38:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@crsg2eek48m8n5m.org
Oh , Marylebone , even better! A nice leisurely tour going west first!
Marylebone - Moor Street 111 3/4 miles
Euston - New Street 113 miles

Obviously journey times tell a different story,
but the westward direction is not the problem.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
B-Sides (part 1) - The Coral
M***@foqt6c.org
2021-05-02 15:49:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 May 2021 17:57:28 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
Their only issue was single leaf doors. There was nothing wrong with them
mechanically.
Charles Ellson
2021-05-02 19:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@foqt6c.org
On Sat, 1 May 2021 17:57:28 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
On Sat, 1 May 2021 14:23:32 -0000 (UTC)
Wouldn't the D stock have quite a bit in common with the 73TS?
D stock had rather more in common with 83ts.
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
AIUI it was pretty much the Austin Allegro of tube stock. At what point do
you stop throwing good money after bad and admit that something wasn't very
good?
Their only issue was single leaf doors. There was nothing wrong with them
mechanically.
The doors were "amongst other problems" (or similar words) according
to several descriptions.

"There were also problems with reliability of the electrical
equipment."
https://topstastic.blogspot.com/2016/10/lu-1983-tube-stock.html
Theo
2021-05-01 19:29:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
Wikipedia:

With the Jubilee Line Extension in mind, it was originally planned that the
1983 Stock would be heavily refurbished to run alongside the newer 1996
Stock that entered service on the Jubilee line in 1997; the plans included
replacing the single leaf doors with double doors to speed up passenger
boarding. The 1983 Stock was to be given similar interiors. This was
abandoned due to the cost being only 10% cheaper than re-equipping the line
entirely with the 1996 Stock. Then it was proposed for the 1983 Stock to be
added to the refurbished 1973 Stock on the Piccadilly line and serve the
Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section of the line. This was also abandoned on the
grounds of cost.


New car or refurb old banger for 90% of the cost? Your choice.

Theo
tim...
2021-05-02 11:02:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Theo
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
With the Jubilee Line Extension in mind, it was originally planned that the
1983 Stock would be heavily refurbished to run alongside the newer 1996
Stock that entered service on the Jubilee line in 1997; the plans included
replacing the single leaf doors with double doors to speed up passenger
boarding. The 1983 Stock was to be given similar interiors. This was
abandoned due to the cost being only 10% cheaper than re-equipping the line
entirely with the 1996 Stock. Then it was proposed for the 1983 Stock to be
added to the refurbished 1973 Stock on the Piccadilly line and serve the
Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section of the line. This was also abandoned on the
grounds of cost.
New car or refurb old banger for 90% of the cost? Your choice.
So, they were scrapped because someone ordered a fleet of vehicles with
single doors, for a lightly used line and then found there was nowhere else
to use them when loadings increased and they because unsuitable for use on
the original line.

That seems to be a cock up in procurement rather than
engineering/manufacturer
Christopher A. Lee
2021-05-02 13:06:56 UTC
Permalink
On 01 May 2021 20:29:47 +0100 (BST), Theo
Post by Theo
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old. It
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
With the Jubilee Line Extension in mind, it was originally planned that the
1983 Stock would be heavily refurbished to run alongside the newer 1996
Stock that entered service on the Jubilee line in 1997; the plans included
replacing the single leaf doors with double doors to speed up passenger
boarding. The 1983 Stock was to be given similar interiors. This was
abandoned due to the cost being only 10% cheaper than re-equipping the line
entirely with the 1996 Stock. Then it was proposed for the 1983 Stock to be
added to the refurbished 1973 Stock on the Piccadilly line and serve the
Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section of the line. This was also abandoned on the
grounds of cost.
Eh? Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge? Ot did I mis-read it?
Post by Theo
New car or refurb old banger for 90% of the cost? Your choice.
Theo
M***@1en_296jz.org
2021-05-02 15:54:03 UTC
Permalink
On 01 May 2021 20:29:47 +0100 (BST)
Post by Theo
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
The 83 stock was scrapped when some of the vehicles were only 15 years old.
It
Post by M***@oay66m1x833n0oey06.tv
was a bloody scandal that no one seemed interested in. But as I've said
before, its easy to spend money with abandon when its not your own and comes
from ticket receipts and central government.
With the Jubilee Line Extension in mind, it was originally planned that the
1983 Stock would be heavily refurbished to run alongside the newer 1996
Stock that entered service on the Jubilee line in 1997; the plans included
replacing the single leaf doors with double doors to speed up passenger
boarding. The 1983 Stock was to be given similar interiors. This was
abandoned due to the cost being only 10% cheaper than re-equipping the line
entirely with the 1996 Stock. Then it was proposed for the 1983 Stock to be
added to the refurbished 1973 Stock on the Piccadilly line and serve the
Rayners Lane - Uxbridge section of the line. This was also abandoned on the
grounds of cost.
What cost, putting new line stickers in the vehicles? Sounds like an excuse.
There were a couple of them sitting at cockfosters for years mouldering away
then one week they vanished.
Post by Theo
New car or refurb old banger for 90% of the cost? Your choice.
Its not just the financial cost, its the enviromental cost. Binning a few
thousand tons of train takes a large amount of energy to recycle all the
metal and no doubt the plastic and fabrics went to landfill. So in this
case I'd say refurb. Plus if they were going to run on the lightly used
uxbridge branch of the picc they wouldn't need anything done to them other
than a clean up.

Its the same excuse with the 373s, "Oh we can't find a buyer or use for them".
Well fucking well try harder.
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