Discussion:
Motion Sickness
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2020-02-27 22:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
Maybe I have a sensitive stomach.
I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward
when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a
strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion.
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in
London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start
addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance.
That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs,
maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2020-02-28 00:32:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
Maybe I have a sensitive stomach.
I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward
when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a
strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion.
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
It was newer models, to which I was referring.
Post by Recliner
I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in
London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start
addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance.
That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs,
maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity.
How did I know that you would say something like that?
Recliner
2020-02-28 00:59:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
Maybe I have a sensitive stomach.
I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward
when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a
strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion.
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
It was newer models, to which I was referring.
Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more
than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another
(parallel to series, say).
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in
London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start
addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance.
That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs,
maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity.
How did I know that you would say something like that?
Yup. Anyone who's travelled on a modern train knows what the priorities
are.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2020-02-28 10:12:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
Maybe I have a sensitive stomach.
I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward
when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a
strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion.
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
It was newer models, to which I was referring.
Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more
than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another
(parallel to series, say).
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in
London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start
addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance.
That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs,
maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity.
How did I know that you would say something like that?
Yup. Anyone who's travelled on a modern train knows what the priorities
are.
The Alstom Metropolis, which operates in revenue service on several
different networks, is allegedly notorious for creating motion sickness.
Recliner
2020-02-28 10:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
Maybe I have a sensitive stomach.
I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward
when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a
strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion.
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
It was newer models, to which I was referring.
Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more
than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another
(parallel to series, say).
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
I am glad to see the introduction of electric and hybrid busses here in
London, but I do wonder if TfL or the contractors need to start
addressing passenger comfort in this particular instance.
That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs,
maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity.
How did I know that you would say something like that?
Yup. Anyone who's travelled on a modern train knows what the priorities
are.
The Alstom Metropolis, which operates in revenue service on several
different networks, is allegedly notorious for creating motion sickness.
Is that train related to any hybrid buses?
Robin
2020-02-28 10:49:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
Maybe I have a sensitive stomach.
I have just noticed that the single- and double-deckers lurch forward
when starting and come to such abrupt stops. The hybrids also can give a
strong lurch as the engine switches on when the vehicle is in motion.
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
It was newer models, to which I was referring.
Newer models from manufacturers new to the technology. Also, there's more
than one form of hybrid, and they may have moved from one to another
(parallel to series, say).
If there are /systematic/ differences between models I'd have expected
them to come up in TfL's covert monitoring of the quality of drivers on
the London bus network. IIRC TfL could also deploy accelerometers ad
hoc if there were complaints about a driver/service.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
David Cantrell
2020-02-28 11:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some
routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda
thunk it was a Solved Problem.
--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

Safety tip: never strap firearms to a hamster
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-02-28 11:45:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:33:07 +0000
Post by David Cantrell
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some
routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda
thunk it was a Solved Problem.
Probably more likely to be the drivers - a lot of london bus drivers seem to
only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake.
Recliner
2020-02-28 12:34:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:33:07 +0000
Post by David Cantrell
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some
routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda
thunk it was a Solved Problem.
Probably more likely to be the drivers - a lot of london bus drivers seem to
only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake.
Yes, but the same drivers also drove the previous non-lurching diesel
buses. Some of the new hybrid buses seem to have more sensitive
throttles.

It may be because electric motors have more starting torque. For
example, even quite humble city BEVs have very good acceleration from
zero to about 20mph.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-02-28 16:59:49 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:34:17 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:33:07 +0000
Post by David Cantrell
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some
routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda
thunk it was a Solved Problem.
Probably more likely to be the drivers - a lot of london bus drivers seem to
only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake.
Yes, but the same drivers also drove the previous non-lurching diesel
buses. Some of the new hybrid buses seem to have more sensitive
throttles.
It may be because electric motors have more starting torque. For
example, even quite humble city BEVs have very good acceleration from
zero to about 20mph.
New Routemasters aside (which seem to be generally hopeless in many respects)
I've found that the hybrid buses do take off from a stand much quicker than
a diesel only bus so the electric motor is certainly helping there. I've yet
to travel on a pure battery bus however so can't comment on them.
Recliner
2020-02-28 17:06:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:34:17 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:33:07 +0000
Post by David Cantrell
Post by Recliner
Has anybody noticed how the electric and hybrid busses, particularly the
newer ones, cause motion sickness?
I don't think it's all of them, but some new models do seem to lurch.
That's probably a sign of the immaturity of some drivetrains, rather than
anything intrinsic.
I've not noticed this on buses, perhaps it's only some models on some
routes. But at any rate, it doesn't happen in hybrid cars so you woulda
thunk it was a Solved Problem.
Probably more likely to be the drivers - a lot of london bus drivers seem to
only use 2 throttle positions , zero and maximum. Ditto the brake.
Yes, but the same drivers also drove the previous non-lurching diesel
buses. Some of the new hybrid buses seem to have more sensitive
throttles.
It may be because electric motors have more starting torque. For
example, even quite humble city BEVs have very good acceleration from
zero to about 20mph.
New Routemasters aside (which seem to be generally hopeless in many respects)
I've found that the hybrid buses do take off from a stand much quicker than
a diesel only bus so the electric motor is certainly helping there. I've yet
to travel on a pure battery bus however so can't comment on them.
I've been on battery and hydrogen fuel cell buses and didn't notice any
particular lurchiness.
Roland Perry
2020-02-28 18:44:34 UTC
Permalink
I've yet to travel on a pure battery bus however so can't comment on
them.
I have, and the ride was OK, but the driver confided it ran out of power
halfway through the afternoon, having limped its way around the final
hour.
--
Roland Perry
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-03-01 16:12:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 18:44:34 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
I've yet to travel on a pure battery bus however so can't comment on
them.
I have, and the ride was OK, but the driver confided it ran out of power
halfway through the afternoon, having limped its way around the final
hour.
Induction charging or some kind of overhead pickup at bus stops would
certainly help there but whether TfL or any other bus operator would swallow
the cost without government assistance is another matter.

Roland Perry
2020-02-28 13:44:57 UTC
Permalink
a lot of london bus drivers seem to only use 2 throttle positions ,
zero and maximum. Ditto the brake.
It's not restricted to London!
--
Roland Perry
Someone Somewhere
2020-02-29 21:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
That'll be very low on the priority list after purchase costs, fuel costs,
maintenance, emissions, reliability, ease of driving and longevity.
And making a strange groaning noise that can be heard from some distance
to keep the guide dog charity happy.

(I was the other side of Wapping Green the other night and could hear
the bus coming from some way down Wapping Lane)
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