Discussion:
Have the 483s had their final run?
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Basil Jet
2020-12-04 22:18:26 UTC
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Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
Someone must have hacked his account...
Geoff doesn't even know the IoW exists.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Crowded House - 2007 - Time On Earth (bonus disc)
Marland
2020-12-05 00:21:53 UTC
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Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
Last night I glanced at the rail cams that point to Ryde Pier head and
Rye Esplanadel and watched the last departure from Pier Head that only goes
back as far as St Johns, as has often been the case recently with no
passengers around it was a couple of minutes early.
Quite a few people are popping in to watch for a bit in case the 484 makes
its first journey through the tunnel.
Each time I have watched that last train recently knowing that the local
travel bulletins almost every other morning have announced there has been
no service due to no serviceable train being available
I have wondered if I had witnessed the last , looks like last night I may
have.
I believe next weeks shutdown was planned for engineering works possibly
power supply so with only about 10 to 15 days left from that till the new
year 3 month closure if the 483s have failed beyond a simple fix it may not
be cost effective to fix them as opposed to jusr laying on replacement
buses a week or two early.

One thing that the cameras have picked up is a sheepdog who has his own
ritual for greeting a train about 8.30 each morning, you can see why it has
gathered the nickname Spinney who will have to do something else now.




GH
Recliner
2020-12-05 00:54:02 UTC
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Post by Marland
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
Last night I glanced at the rail cams that point to Ryde Pier head and
Rye Esplanadel and watched the last departure from Pier Head that only goes
back as far as St Johns, as has often been the case recently with no
passengers around it was a couple of minutes early.
Quite a few people are popping in to watch for a bit in case the 484 makes
its first journey through the tunnel.
Each time I have watched that last train recently knowing that the local
travel bulletins almost every other morning have announced there has been
no service due to no serviceable train being available
I have wondered if I had witnessed the last , looks like last night I may
have.
I believe next weeks shutdown was planned for engineering works possibly
power supply so with only about 10 to 15 days left from that till the new
year 3 month closure if the 483s have failed beyond a simple fix it may not
be cost effective to fix them as opposed to jusr laying on replacement
buses a week or two early.
One thing that the cameras have picked up is a sheepdog who has his own
ritual for greeting a train about 8.30 each morning, you can see why it has
gathered the nickname Spinney who will have to do something else now.
http://youtu.be/N9e1Byj_h6Y
Have they planned any special farewell/final trips? If so, they might make
the effort to patch up one set enough to do it. If not, it's probably not
worth it.

I assume the set going to the Steam Railway will never be able to run on
the electric line again?
Theo
2020-12-05 10:40:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Have they planned any special farewell/final trips? If so, they might make
the effort to patch up one set enough to do it. If not, it's probably not
worth it.
I assume not. IoW is in Tier 1 and they probably don't want to encourage
more people to come from higher tier areas.
Post by Recliner
I assume the set going to the Steam Railway will never be able to run on
the electric line again?
It appears it's going for static display in their Train Story museum.
That's not to say a preservation group might not take it on further down the
line, of course...

I hope the EoR get the unit that's in the best operational state, given they
want to run it. (It's not clear if that's one of the recently failed ones,
or 483007 which is still under overhaul)

Theo
Scott
2020-12-11 13:10:39 UTC
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Permalink
On 05 Dec 2020 10:40:52 +0000 (GMT), Theo
Post by Theo
Post by Recliner
Have they planned any special farewell/final trips? If so, they might make
the effort to patch up one set enough to do it. If not, it's probably not
worth it.
I assume not. IoW is in Tier 1 and they probably don't want to encourage
more people to come from higher tier areas.
Post by Recliner
I assume the set going to the Steam Railway will never be able to run on
the electric line again?
It appears it's going for static display in their Train Story museum.
That's not to say a preservation group might not take it on further down the
line, of course...
I hope the EoR get the unit that's in the best operational state, given they
want to run it. (It's not clear if that's one of the recently failed ones,
or 483007 which is still under overhaul)
Would it be possible to use portable batteries to run a short distance
without having to modify the train itself?
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-05 11:03:14 UTC
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Permalink
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.

<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Marland
2020-12-11 10:38:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
On local travel news this Morning, Train back in service today till 6pm.
Then closed for the weekend for engineering works and testing of the
replacement.
Wonder if it will make January before the scheduled shutdown.

GH
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-11 15:50:27 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.

The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Marland
2020-12-11 18:04:54 UTC
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Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
I watched the 483 go past on the webcam this afternoon , it may be my
imagination or the light conditions but it looked like the roof was a lot
cleaner than when it was out last and the bodywork looked a bit brighter ,
I wonder if the staff at Ryde depot decided to give it a little extra TLC
so it looks reasonably good for its last journeys.
Perhaps a way of using paint stocks up seeing as the 484 is in standard SWR
livery which means of course the Island line will have trains sharing a
livery with the mainland for the first time since they were Network
SouthEast, a livery which IMHO suited the 483’s far better than one would
have expected.

GH
Marland
2020-12-12 14:03:54 UTC
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Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Hasn’t this overhaul taken 3 years? Hopefully it is something niggling that
can easily be fixed.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.
I think it was last Monday that Ryde Pier head had a few people wearing
HIVIZ and standing by survey instruments on tripods spread along the
platform so maybe clearances were being checked what with there being a
sharp curve into the station , possibly esplanade needs measuring as well.

GH
Graeme Wall
2020-12-12 14:05:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Hasn’t this overhaul taken 3 years? Hopefully it is something niggling that
can easily be fixed.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.
I think it was last Monday that Ryde Pier head had a few people wearing
HIVIZ and standing by survey instruments on tripods spread along the
platform so maybe clearances were being checked what with there being a
sharp curve into the station , possibly esplanade needs measuring as well.
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Marland
2020-12-12 17:41:06 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Hasn’t this overhaul taken 3 years? Hopefully it is something niggling that
can easily be fixed.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.
I think it was last Monday that Ryde Pier head had a few people wearing
HIVIZ and standing by survey instruments on tripods spread along the
platform so maybe clearances were being checked what with there being a
sharp curve into the station , possibly esplanade needs measuring as well.
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
I don’t think there will be a problem,after all normal stock albeit at the
smaller end of mainline loading gauge worked the line for the best part of
a century, but after 55 years of operating tube sized vehicles some re
adjustments would be understandable for any test run with tube stock being
narrower than subsurface. Some will needed anyway for unassisted wheeled
disability access is to be implemented. At the moment the guard is pretty
prompt at getting ramps for those who need them but can only be at one set
of doors at a time. Part of the upgrade of the infrastructure is to provide
level access to platforms though how they do it at Ryde Esplanade with its
curved platform will interesting, end doors only perhaps.
Pier station has a curve at the end but enough straight after to cope
with the length of trains.

GH
Recliner
2020-12-12 22:22:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Hasn’t this overhaul taken 3 years? Hopefully it is something niggling that
can easily be fixed.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.
I think it was last Monday that Ryde Pier head had a few people wearing
HIVIZ and standing by survey instruments on tripods spread along the
platform so maybe clearances were being checked what with there being a
sharp curve into the station , possibly esplanade needs measuring as well.
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
I don’t think there will be a problem,after all normal stock albeit at the
smaller end of mainline loading gauge worked the line for the best part of
a century, but after 55 years of operating tube sized vehicles some re
adjustments would be understandable for any test run with tube stock being
narrower than subsurface. Some will needed anyway for unassisted wheeled
disability access is to be implemented. At the moment the guard is pretty
prompt at getting ramps for those who need them but can only be at one set
of doors at a time. Part of the upgrade of the infrastructure is to provide
level access to platforms though how they do it at Ryde Esplanade with its
curved platform will interesting, end doors only perhaps.
Pier station has a curve at the end but enough straight after to cope
with the length of trains.
Perhaps the surveyors were there to calculate *exactly* the track and
platform realignment needed during the track renewal?
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2020-12-13 21:50:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Hasn’t this overhaul taken 3 years? Hopefully it is something niggling that
can easily be fixed.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power, I believe;
but I've not seen any reports of it going through the tunnel, yet.
I think it was last Monday that Ryde Pier head had a few people wearing
HIVIZ and standing by survey instruments on tripods spread along the
platform so maybe clearances were being checked what with there being a
sharp curve into the station , possibly esplanade needs measuring as well.
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.

This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-14 08:56:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
Basil Jet
2020-12-14 16:06:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Mono - 1997 - Formica Blues
Charles Ellson
2020-12-14 23:56:48 UTC
Reply
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
IIRC vertical curves rather than horizontal or was that the Central
Line ? Gauging runs at low speed hadn't sufficiently imitated normal
running conditions.
Post by Basil Jet
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-15 08:41:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 23:56:48 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
IIRC vertical curves rather than horizontal or was that the Central
Line ? Gauging runs at low speed hadn't sufficiently imitated normal
running conditions.
Don't know TBH. I do know the 2009 stock on the victoria line is too wide
for other tube lines, though I suspect that is more due to profile than actual
max width. They're definately more slab sided than other stock.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-15 11:35:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 23:56:48 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
IIRC vertical curves rather than horizontal or was that the Central
Line ? Gauging runs at low speed hadn't sufficiently imitated normal
running conditions.
Don't know TBH. I do know the 2009 stock on the victoria line is too wide
for other tube lines, though I suspect that is more due to profile than actual
max width. They're definately more slab sided than other stock.
1992 stock are also very flat-sided, though the 2009 stock seems to have
higher 'shoulders' IYSWIM.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-15 11:51:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 11:35:52 -0000 (UTC)
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Don't know TBH. I do know the 2009 stock on the victoria line is too wide
for other tube lines, though I suspect that is more due to profile than
actual
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
max width. They're definately more slab sided than other stock.
1992 stock are also very flat-sided, though the 2009 stock seems to have
higher 'shoulders' IYSWIM.
Yes they do which makes standing next to the door much more comfortable than
in other tube stocks as you're not hunched over like quasimodo. I imagine
that extra shoulder width on curves is the issue.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-15 08:39:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:06:54 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
Recliner
2020-12-15 08:57:41 UTC
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Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:06:54 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Infra
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-15 09:18:09 UTC
Reply
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On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 08:57:41 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Infra
There's a surprise - more interference from the EU in things it has no
business being concerned with.
Recliner
2020-12-15 09:36:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 08:57:41 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Infra
There's a surprise - more interference from the EU in things it has no
business being concerned with.
It was the EU taking its lead from the UK, in an effort to encourage open
access and international train operators. The aim is to deliver a better,
cheaper service to customers through competition and innovation. It's
worked in quite a few countries, but the old state monopolies, particularly
DB and SNCF, work hard to block it.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-15 10:09:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 09:36:08 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 08:57:41 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did
SNCF
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
become a train operator only?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_Infra
There's a surprise - more interference from the EU in things it has no
business being concerned with.
It was the EU taking its lead from the UK, in an effort to encourage open
access and international train operators. The aim is to deliver a better,
The less said of the mess John Majors government made of the railways the
better.
Post by Recliner
cheaper service to customers through competition and innovation. It's
worked in quite a few countries, but the old state monopolies, particularly
DB and SNCF, work hard to block it.
Obviously its impossible to know what state BR would be in today if it had
continued but been given the same level of funding as the current system, but
I suspect it wouldn't have been much different plus there's a good chance we'd
have more R&D in this country.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-15 11:35:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:06:54 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réseau_Ferré_de_France>

<quote>

Réseau ferré de France (RFF, French: French Rail Network) was a French
company which owned and maintained the French national railway network from
1997 to 2014. The company was formed with the rail assets of SNCF in 1997.
Afterwards, the trains were operated by the SNCF, the national railway
company, but due to European Union Directive 91/440, the Government of
France was required to separate train operations from the railway
infrastructure. On 1 January 2015, RFF became SNCF Réseau, the operational
assets of SNCF became SNCF Mobilités, and both groups were placed under the
control of SNCF.[1]

</quote>
Jeremy Double
2020-12-15 18:59:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:06:54 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
The EU mandated separation of infrastructure from train operation,
following the pattern established in the UK by privatisation.

Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
--
Jeremy Double
Arthur Figgis
2020-12-15 23:51:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
The EU mandated separation of infrastructure from train operation,
following the pattern established in the UK by privatisation.
Sweden was first. And lots of different models were used; there was the
German model of DB having operations and infrastucture units within one
holding company, or the French model of separating things out then
subcontracting the separated stuff back again to comply with the letter
if not the spirit of the rules.
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Did NI Railways ever get - at least nominally - vertically separated?
They had a derogation, but it was due to run out, and AFAIK "vertically
separating NU Railways" was on the priority to-do list for literally
no-one anywhere.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-16 08:37:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 15 Dec 2020 18:59:36 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Irrelevant. Brexit was about immigration pure and simple. If that clown Blair
hadn't opened the flood gates to all the Igors and Olgas the minute the
grasping east european countries joined and immediately held out their palms
for silver I doubt Brexit would have happened.

It is amusing however how all the Remoaners were claiming the sky would fall
the minute they all started to leave yet now if you go into a Costa most of
the staff are the British kids who were never given a chance before. Also
all the east european security staff in my local supermarket have cleared off
and been replaced by Brits. Brexit - so far - is working.
Marland
2020-12-16 11:01:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On 15 Dec 2020 18:59:36 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Irrelevant. Brexit was about immigration pure and simple. If that clown Blair
hadn't opened the flood gates to all the Igors and Olgas the minute the
grasping east european countries joined and immediately held out their palms
for silver I doubt Brexit would have happened.
It is amusing however how all the Remoaners were claiming the sky would fall
the minute they all started to leave yet now if you go into a Costa most of
the staff are the British kids who were never given a chance before. Also
all the east european security staff in my local supermarket have cleared off
and been replaced by Brits. Brexit - so far - is working.
Be interesting to have a closer study at who those Kids are, the current
plague has so distorted jobs and the economy that the effect of Brexit and
what might have been or not cannot accurately be quantified but one thing
that appears to have been happening is the number of people not just young
who were employed or aspiring to a professional career whose expectations
have been curtailed.
Rather than sit on their arses many have adopted the any port in a storm
approach to getting some income and gone for service jobs in catering or
parcel delivery which they hope will be a temporary interlude. One I know
just sighs and says she expected to be doing such work on her gap year but
thought it would be in Sydney or Melbourne not Wiltshire.
Meanwhile those whose background means they were always less motivated
some of whom never had expectations of having to work for a living because
getting up a midday drinking a few cans of beer and taking a few drugs and
doing a little dealing are still doing that ,they haven’t flocked to fill
the positions left by Europeans returning home.
Once C19 is brought to a controllable state it will be interesting to see
if the more motivated people do resume into more professional careers and
less the motivated or aspirational start to fill them,
that may mean the likes of Costa etc may have to pay more to make working
worthwhile compared to social support, even as a generally EU supporter I
would agree the sudden influx of people who
could live on low wages knowing that if it all went pear shaped they could
return home to a less crowded country where the cost of living was less
distorted our job market for low earners.

GH
Recliner
2020-12-16 11:22:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On 15 Dec 2020 18:59:36 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Irrelevant. Brexit was about immigration pure and simple. If that clown Blair
hadn't opened the flood gates to all the Igors and Olgas the minute the
grasping east european countries joined and immediately held out their palms
for silver I doubt Brexit would have happened.
It is amusing however how all the Remoaners were claiming the sky would fall
the minute they all started to leave yet now if you go into a Costa most of
the staff are the British kids who were never given a chance before. Also
all the east european security staff in my local supermarket have cleared off
and been replaced by Brits. Brexit - so far - is working.
Be interesting to have a closer study at who those Kids are, the current
plague has so distorted jobs and the economy that the effect of Brexit and
what might have been or not cannot accurately be quantified but one thing
that appears to have been happening is the number of people not just young
who were employed or aspiring to a professional career whose expectations
have been curtailed.
Rather than sit on their arses many have adopted the any port in a storm
approach to getting some income and gone for service jobs in catering or
parcel delivery which they hope will be a temporary interlude. One I know
just sighs and says she expected to be doing such work on her gap year but
thought it would be in Sydney or Melbourne not Wiltshire.
Meanwhile those whose background means they were always less motivated
some of whom never had expectations of having to work for a living because
getting up a midday drinking a few cans of beer and taking a few drugs and
doing a little dealing are still doing that ,they haven’t flocked to fill
the positions left by Europeans returning home.
Once C19 is brought to a controllable state it will be interesting to see
if the more motivated people do resume into more professional careers and
less the motivated or aspirational start to fill them,
that may mean the likes of Costa etc may have to pay more to make working
worthwhile compared to social support, even as a generally EU supporter I
would agree the sudden influx of people who
could live on low wages knowing that if it all went pear shaped they could
return home to a less crowded country where the cost of living was less
distorted our job market for low earners.
There's been a big drop in hospitality jobs this year, so many of those
departing young East Europeans won't have been replaced:
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-number-of-redundancies-as-restrictions-bite-vkql9sbvp?shareToken=250039b89d1d619f204b901bf7eaaf52>

I wonder what will happen next year, when life returns to the hospitality
and travel industries? Who will they recruit for the minimum wage jobs?
Certes
2020-12-16 13:31:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
There's been a big drop in hospitality jobs this year, so many of those
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-number-of-redundancies-as-restrictions-bite-vkql9sbvp?shareToken=250039b89d1d619f204b901bf7eaaf52>
I wonder what will happen next year, when life returns to the hospitality
and travel industries? Who will they recruit for the minimum wage jobs?
We will still have the option of allowing in workers from selected EU or
non-EU countries if their presence would benefit the UK economy.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-16 11:24:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 16 Dec 2020 11:01:26 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On 15 Dec 2020 18:59:36 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Irrelevant. Brexit was about immigration pure and simple. If that clown Blair
hadn't opened the flood gates to all the Igors and Olgas the minute the
grasping east european countries joined and immediately held out their palms
for silver I doubt Brexit would have happened.
It is amusing however how all the Remoaners were claiming the sky would fall
the minute they all started to leave yet now if you go into a Costa most of
the staff are the British kids who were never given a chance before. Also
all the east european security staff in my local supermarket have cleared off
and been replaced by Brits. Brexit - so far - is working.
Be interesting to have a closer study at who those Kids are, the current
plague has so distorted jobs and the economy that the effect of Brexit and
what might have been or not cannot accurately be quantified but one thing
that appears to have been happening is the number of people not just young
who were employed or aspiring to a professional career whose expectations
have been curtailed.
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers. I can only presume because
if you're an immigrant you're less likely to complain about conditions and
are happy to work for lower wages plus you'll probably leave soon anyway
before there's any chance of you becoming confident enough to lodge any
complaints.
Post by Marland
Meanwhile those whose background means they were always less motivated
some of whom never had expectations of having to work for a living because
getting up a midday drinking a few cans of beer and taking a few drugs and
doing a little dealing are still doing that ,they haven’t flocked to fill
the positions left by Europeans returning home.
Every country has those sorts , the UK isn't unique in that respect. But
there are 70 million people in this country (hopefully a few million less
by this time next year) most of whom need to work.
Post by Marland
would agree the sudden influx of people who
could live on low wages knowing that if it all went pear shaped they could
return home to a less crowded country where the cost of living was less
And sent a large proportion of the money they earned home so the UK economy
lost that benefit.
Graeme Wall
2020-12-16 18:06:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On 16 Dec 2020 11:01:26 GMT
Post by Marland
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On 15 Dec 2020 18:59:36 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Irrelevant. Brexit was about immigration pure and simple. If that clown Blair
hadn't opened the flood gates to all the Igors and Olgas the minute the
grasping east european countries joined and immediately held out their palms
for silver I doubt Brexit would have happened.
It is amusing however how all the Remoaners were claiming the sky would fall
the minute they all started to leave yet now if you go into a Costa most of
the staff are the British kids who were never given a chance before. Also
all the east european security staff in my local supermarket have cleared off
and been replaced by Brits. Brexit - so far - is working.
Be interesting to have a closer study at who those Kids are, the current
plague has so distorted jobs and the economy that the effect of Brexit and
what might have been or not cannot accurately be quantified but one thing
that appears to have been happening is the number of people not just young
who were employed or aspiring to a professional career whose expectations
have been curtailed.
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-17 08:43:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:06:07 +0000
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
How am I supposed to cite stories from guests and callers on radio shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
Graeme Wall
2020-12-17 18:45:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:06:07 +0000
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
How am I supposed to cite stories from guests and callers on radio shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
So you have no evidence that any of this actually happened. There's
anecdotal reports that a flying saucer landed in Rendlesham Forest.
That's just as likely.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Marland
2020-12-17 20:07:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
How am I supposed to cite stories from guests and callers on radio shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
So you have no evidence that any of this actually happened. There's
anecdotal reports that a flying saucer landed in Rendlesham Forest.
That's just as likely.
Anyone get its Number ?

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2008/01/25/british-rail-and-the-flying-saucer/


GH
s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
2020-12-18 11:39:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:45:16 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:06:07 +0000
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
How am I supposed to cite stories from guests and callers on radio shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
So you have no evidence that any of this actually happened. There's
There's no evidence anything you say is anything but utter BS too.
Sam Wilson
2020-12-18 13:47:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:45:16 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:06:07 +0000
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
How am I supposed to cite stories from guests and callers on radio shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
So you have no evidence that any of this actually happened. There's
There's no evidence anything you say is anything but utter BS too.
If I say “Adolf Hitler” will that bring this converstation to an end?

Sam
--
The entity formerly known as ***@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply
Roland Perry
2020-12-18 14:11:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:45:16 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:06:07 +0000
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
How am I supposed to cite stories from guests and callers on radio shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
So you have no evidence that any of this actually happened. There's
There's no evidence anything you say is anything but utter BS too.
If I say “Adolf Hitler” will that bring this converstation to an end?
You need to ask Mike Godwin.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2020-12-18 14:30:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Sam Wilson
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 18:45:16 +0000
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 18:06:07 +0000
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
Quite possibly, but I've heard numerous anecdotal reports on the radio and
elsewhere of British kids in the past who applied to these sorts of jobs
and were turned down in preference of EU workers.
Cite?
How am I supposed to cite stories  from guests and callers on radio
shows
and opinion pieces I read ages ago? Thats why I said "anecdotal".
So you have no evidence that any of this actually happened. There's
There's no evidence anything you say is anything but utter BS too.
If I say “Adolf Hitler” will that bring this converstation to an end?
You need to ask Mike Godwin.
What does he know about Namibian politics?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Beastie Boys - 1994 - Ill Communication
Roland Perry
2020-12-18 16:49:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Sam Wilson
If I say “Adolf Hitler” will that bring this converstation to an end?
You need to ask Mike Godwin.
What does he know about Namibian politics?
Dunno. It's almost 20yrs since I last met him.
--
Roland Perry
Jeremy Double
2020-12-16 19:24:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On 15 Dec 2020 18:59:36 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
Irrelevant. Brexit was about immigration pure and simple. If that clown Blair
hadn't opened the flood gates to all the Igors and Olgas the minute the
grasping east european countries joined and immediately held out their palms
for silver I doubt Brexit would have happened.
It is amusing however how all the Remoaners were claiming the sky would fall
the minute they all started to leave yet now if you go into a Costa most of
the staff are the British kids who were never given a chance before. Also
all the east european security staff in my local supermarket have cleared off
and been replaced by Brits. Brexit - so far - is working.
Brexit hasn’t started yet. Wait until the new year...
--
Jeremy Double
Robert
2020-12-17 11:13:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:06:54 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by s***@isnotyourbuddy.co.uk
On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:50:13 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Graeme Wall
Shouldn't they have done that before ordering the new trains?
When the New York City Subway started commissioning and testing what was
then the brand new R-38 in the 60s, they realised that there was loading
no gauge on some of the tighter curves, particularly on the Fulton
Street Line.
This prompted the works to allow gauge clearance as well as removing
some of the walkways around towers (signal boxes).
IIRC something similar happened when the 73 stock arrived on the Piccadilly
line. The new cars were longer and so the throw was greater and the tunnels
linings around south ken had to be "shaved".
The 2014 French example is the biggest I'm aware of.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27497727
Oops. Also it seems I'm rather out of date on French railways. When did SNCF
become a train operator only?
The EU mandated separation of infrastructure from train operation,
following the pattern established in the UK by privatisation.
This has been said time and time again but rarely seems to register. Firstly
the EU Directive pre-dates the UK's 1993 Railways Act and secondly you will
find that the EU only mandated separate /accounting/ for infrastructure and
operations.

It did not mandate separate /ownership/ although this is what the UK
subsequently did. The idea was to allow independent freight and passenger
operators access to the infrastructure under the same financial conditions as
the incumbent and to maintain fair competition by making previously hidden
subsidies transparent.
Post by Jeremy Double
Of course, the UK never had any influence in the EU...
--
Robert
Marland
2020-12-15 19:46:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Well, the unit was running yesterday though for much of the day the local
travel bulletins said there was a replacement bus service so there may have
been both options till the buses were stood down
later in the day.

Today it was the usual “ Island line service suspended, replacement buses
running” from the travel bulletin.
Power supply problems mentioned as the cause on bulletins heard later, Does
the 484 take more juice I wonder and strained the life expired electrical
equipment on an overnight test?

Incidentally the unit which emerged from overhaul and looks likely to be
the final torchbearer for the tube stock has acquired a staff bestowed
name sticker as a nod to the recently retired depot manager who oversaw
keeping these going with minimal resources for years.

Is carrying a name albeit a probably unofficial one a first for a tube
train?
The full gauge Met locos had them of course but I cannot recall anything
tube sized,
a possible candidate may have been the steam loco that worked on extending
the lines to Morden,
Cockfosters and the Central Eastwards that was known by the name Brazil
after the class name Kerr Stuart gave to the design but the few photos
around only seem to show a builders plate not a nameplate.
https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-xfmN5HM/A


It was basically a standard gauge version of a narrow gauge design several
examples of which can still be seen at places like the Sittingbourne and
Kemsley

Looking at the picture I bet the crew suffered from back ache after a
shift.

GH
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2020-12-15 21:08:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Well, the unit was running yesterday though for much of the day the local
travel bulletins said there was a replacement bus service so there may have
been both options till the buses were stood down
later in the day.
Today it was the usual “ Island line service suspended, replacement buses
running” from the travel bulletin.
Power supply problems mentioned as the cause on bulletins heard later, Does
the 484 take more juice I wonder and strained the life expired electrical
equipment on an overnight test?
Incidentally the unit which emerged from overhaul and looks likely to be
the final torchbearer for the tube stock has acquired a staff bestowed
name sticker as a nod to the recently retired depot manager who oversaw
keeping these going with minimal resources for years.
Is carrying a name albeit a probably unofficial one a first for a tube
train?
The full gauge Met locos had them of course but I cannot recall anything
tube sized,
LU's 14 Schöma diesels, used on JLE construction and then works trains, 10
of which have been reengineered as battery locos, carry/carried names
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_diesel_locomotives>
Post by Marland
a possible candidate may have been the steam loco that worked on extending
the lines to Morden,
Cockfosters and the Central Eastwards that was known by the name Brazil
after the class name Kerr Stuart gave to the design but the few photos
around only seem to show a builders plate not a nameplate.
https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-xfmN5HM/A
It was basically a standard gauge version of a narrow gauge design several
examples of which can still be seen at places like the Sittingbourne and
Kemsley
Looking at the picture I bet the crew suffered from back ache after a
shift.
Off-topic for this thread but a controversy apparently reared its head
recently regarding a proposal to put a normal size cab on this ex-Harrogate
Gas Works loco
<https://www.mattditch.photography/blog/the-history-of-barber> (read the
comments here!-
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/narrowgauge/permalink/5023624207649567/> )


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Christopher A. Lee
2020-12-15 22:04:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 21:08:10 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Marland
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
007 returned to service today; finishing early at 1800 AIUI in order to
allow the 484 to continue test running.
Initially there were reports the line was closing again for the weekend for
engineering work but
007 looking very smart took up duties this morning.
Unfortunately it failed late morning and is back in the depot.
Well, the unit was running yesterday though for much of the day the local
travel bulletins said there was a replacement bus service so there may have
been both options till the buses were stood down
later in the day.
Today it was the usual “ Island line service suspended, replacement buses
running” from the travel bulletin.
Power supply problems mentioned as the cause on bulletins heard later, Does
the 484 take more juice I wonder and strained the life expired electrical
equipment on an overnight test?
Incidentally the unit which emerged from overhaul and looks likely to be
the final torchbearer for the tube stock has acquired a staff bestowed
name sticker as a nod to the recently retired depot manager who oversaw
keeping these going with minimal resources for years.
Is carrying a name albeit a probably unofficial one a first for a tube
train?
The full gauge Met locos had them of course but I cannot recall anything
tube sized,
LU's 14 Schöma diesels, used on JLE construction and then works trains, 10
of which have been reengineered as battery locos, carry/carried names
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_diesel_locomotives>
Post by Marland
a possible candidate may have been the steam loco that worked on extending
the lines to Morden,
Cockfosters and the Central Eastwards that was known by the name Brazil
after the class name Kerr Stuart gave to the design but the few photos
around only seem to show a builders plate not a nameplate.
https://transportsofdelight.smugmug.com/RAILWAYS/RALWAYS-EXCLUDED-FROM-THE-1923-GROUPING/LONDON-TRANSPORT-CONSTITUENT-COMPANIES/i-xfmN5HM/A
It was basically a standard gauge version of a narrow gauge design several
examples of which can still be seen at places like the Sittingbourne and
Kemsley
Looking at the picture I bet the crew suffered from back ache after a
shift.
Off-topic for this thread but a controversy apparently reared its head
recently regarding a proposal to put a normal size cab on this ex-Harrogate
Gas Works loco
<https://www.mattditch.photography/blog/the-history-of-barber> (read the
comments here!-
<https://www.facebook.com/groups/narrowgauge/permalink/5023624207649567/> )
Anna Noyd-Dryver
The Met had some small locomotives inherited from the Brill tramway,
including a Manning Wardle named "Huddersfield". There was also the
elusive "Nellie", another Manning Wardle, which shunted coal wagons
for Neasden power station, over a bridge that couldn't take anything
heavier.
Marland
2020-12-13 11:40:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
The 484 has made multiple trips to Shanklin under its own power,
Watching a recording of one of those on You tube I’m curious if these test
runs are the first time the D78 stock and subsequent VivaRail evolutions of
it have been signalled by semaphores or do the other area (s)where some are
working have some ? I’m guessing that will be a short term scene on the
Island as presumably these last semaphores around Ryde will be replaced as
Ryde box gets modernised as part of the upgrade .

GH
ColinR
2020-12-31 23:05:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
As a side from this thread, I watched a video this evening on "the past"
which was interesting, reflecting my last trip there in 1966.


--
Colin
Marland
2021-01-01 10:33:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ColinR
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
As a side from this thread, I watched a video this evening on "the past"
which was interesting, reflecting my last trip there in 1966.
http://youtu.be/h_dxVE01duo
That link now appears dead so I don’t know if it was steam or the first
batch of tube stock.
I did find some of my own photos taken on that in its last year of
operation and what struck me was how much more of the original interior of
that stock survived with glass lampshades and filament bulbs for the
lighting, leather straphangers etc.
While the 1938 stock has been feted recently the excellent refurbishment
done for their Island role went much further and the interiors ended up
more like a spruced up version of the 59 /62 stock
rather than the ambience they had when in London.

GH
ColinR
2021-01-01 11:59:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by ColinR
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
As a side from this thread, I watched a video this evening on "the past"
which was interesting, reflecting my last trip there in 1966.
http://youtu.be/h_dxVE01duo
That link now appears dead so I don’t know if it was steam or the first
batch of tube stock.
I did find some of my own photos taken on that in its last year of
operation and what struck me was how much more of the original interior of
that stock survived with glass lampshades and filament bulbs for the
lighting, leather straphangers etc.
While the 1938 stock has been feted recently the excellent refurbishment
done for their Island role went much further and the interiors ended up
more like a spruced up version of the 59 /62 stock
rather than the ambience they had when in London.
GH
Strange, it was working last night but not this morning! It was a
Railway Roundabout clip in, I recall, 1962 so very much in the steam
days. However, a search this morning cannot find that particular
episode, but many other episodes are on-line.
--
Colin
Marland
2021-01-01 12:51:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ColinR
Post by Marland
Post by ColinR
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
006 failed last week, 008 failed yesterday (one post suggests axle box
problems?). 007 is supposedly nearing the end of an overhaul. Another post
suggests service may resume on Monday.
<https://m.facebook.com/groups/355569249197459/> has some knowledgeable
people posting and commenting.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
As a side from this thread, I watched a video this evening on "the past"
which was interesting, reflecting my last trip there in 1966.
http://youtu.be/h_dxVE01duo
That link now appears dead so I don’t know if it was steam or the first
batch of tube stock.
I did find some of my own photos taken on that in its last year of
operation and what struck me was how much more of the original interior of
that stock survived with glass lampshades and filament bulbs for the
lighting, leather straphangers etc.
While the 1938 stock has been feted recently the excellent refurbishment
done for their Island role went much further and the interiors ended up
more like a spruced up version of the 59 /62 stock
rather than the ambience they had when in London.
Strange, it was working last night but not this morning! It was a
Railway Roundabout clip in, I recall, 1962 so very much in the steam
days. However, a search this morning cannot find that particular
episode, but many other episodes are on-line.
Ta, Somewhere I have collection of DVD’s with many of the Railway
Roundabout presentations on it,
though I am old enough to remember them being transmitted on the TV it
wasn’t till I purchased the DVD set I realised the production team had the
foresight to record a a good proportion of their material in colour , must
dig them out again and run through them.

GH
Scott
2020-12-11 13:06:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Geoff Marshall
@geofftech
·
3h
So I rode the ‘38 yesterday. Today there was no train. Then this has just
appeared … no trains for another WEEK; what if it still doesn’t resume
after that! Did I just inadvertently manage to ride on the last day that
they were in service … ?
https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1334929817758822407?s=21
Someone must have hacked his account...
Geoff doesn't even know the IoW exists.
In addition, would he start a sentence with 'So'?
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-01-01 09:58:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
006 and 007 both out of service again yesterday, with suggestions that they
won't be returning to service before the official end date of 3rd Jan.

So it looks possible that 28/12/20 was their last day.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Marland
2021-01-01 10:21:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
006 and 007 both out of service again yesterday, with suggestions that they
won't be returning to service before the official end date of 3rd Jan.
So it looks possible that 28/12/20 was their last day.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Out of habit I take a look at the webcam each morning that looks at Ryde
Esplanade station at the time a train is due as on occasions as despite
the traffic reports saying there is no service and replacement buses being
there a service has run.

This morning the train is operating again.

Webcam here



GH
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2021-01-01 18:44:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
006 and 007 both out of service again yesterday, with suggestions that they
won't be returning to service before the official end date of 3rd Jan.
So it looks possible that 28/12/20 was their last day.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Out of habit I take a look at the webcam each morning that looks at Ryde
Esplanade station at the time a train is due as on occasions as despite
the traffic reports saying there is no service and replacement buses being
there a service has run.
This morning the train is operating again.
Webcam here
http://youtu.be/34YMtblpGaE
Interesting, thanks!
Marland
2021-01-03 01:07:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
006 and 007 both out of service again yesterday, with suggestions that they
won't be returning to service before the official end date of 3rd Jan.
So it looks possible that 28/12/20 was their last day.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Out of habit I take a look at the webcam each morning that looks at Ryde
Esplanade station at the time a train is due as on occasions as despite
the traffic reports saying there is no service and replacement buses being
there a service has run.
This morning the train is operating again.
Webcam here
http://youtu.be/34YMtblpGaE
Interesting, thanks!
On Saturday the Isle of Wight County Press published a lot of photos of
tube stock operation on the Island to commemorate the end of it today
Sunday.


https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-trains-30-years/?fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg


GH
Recliner
2021-01-03 16:34:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
006 and 007 both out of service again yesterday, with suggestions that they
won't be returning to service before the official end date of 3rd Jan.
So it looks possible that 28/12/20 was their last day.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Out of habit I take a look at the webcam each morning that looks at Ryde
Esplanade station at the time a train is due as on occasions as despite
the traffic reports saying there is no service and replacement buses being
there a service has run.
This morning the train is operating again.
Webcam here
http://youtu.be/34YMtblpGaE
Interesting, thanks!
On Saturday the Isle of Wight County Press published a lot of photos of
tube stock operation on the Island to commemorate the end of it today
Sunday.
https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-trains-30-years/?fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg
Spotted on Twitter:
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqzx9KpXYAYTPGk?format=jpg&name=large>
Recliner
2021-01-03 16:43:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Marland
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
006 and 007 both out of service again yesterday, with suggestions that they
won't be returning to service before the official end date of 3rd Jan.
So it looks possible that 28/12/20 was their last day.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Out of habit I take a look at the webcam each morning that looks at Ryde
Esplanade station at the time a train is due as on occasions as despite
the traffic reports saying there is no service and replacement buses being
there a service has run.
This morning the train is operating again.
Webcam here
http://youtu.be/34YMtblpGaE
Interesting, thanks!
On Saturday the Isle of Wight County Press published a lot of photos of
tube stock operation on the Island to commemorate the end of it today
Sunday.
https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-trains-30-years/?fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg
I saw this rare one in the collection:
<https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-trains-30-years/?fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg#gallery73>
Alan
2021-01-03 20:13:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
<https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-
trains-30-years/?
fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg#gallery73>

That's a really good picture, I didnt realise how small they were.
Christopher A. Lee
2021-01-03 20:41:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Alan
Post by Recliner
<https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-trains-30-years/?fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg#gallery73>
That's a really good picture, I didnt realise how small they were.
Did you never ride those on the Oiccadilly or Central Lines?

BTW, if you enclose a long URL in <...>, readers won't have to edit it
back together.

Alternatively, use Tinyurl to give you a short one that will be
redirectedto the original.

http://www.tinyurl.com
Recliner
2021-01-03 20:53:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Post by Alan
Post by Recliner
<https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-trains-30-years/?fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg#gallery73>
That's a really good picture, I didnt realise how small they were.
Did you never ride those on the Oiccadilly or Central Lines?
I did, occasionally, when they had a life extension, but more often on the
very similar 59/62 stocks.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
BTW, if you enclose a long URL in <...>, readers won't have to edit it
back together.
Note that that's exactly what I did. It works in the original post, but not
in replies.
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Alternatively, use Tinyurl to give you a short one that will be
redirectedto the original.
http://www.tinyurl.com
Many people are suspicious of those.
Roland Perry
2021-01-04 07:25:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Christopher A. Lee
Alternatively, use Tinyurl to give you a short one that will be
redirectedto the original.
http://www.tinyurl.com
Many people are suspicious of those.
Yes, url shorteners are inherently capable of collecting data on who is
looking at which [page of] a website. Not only does that give each user
a history, but if someone was interested they could link together all
the people who looked at one particular page.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-01-03 20:53:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Marland
Post by Recliner
<https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-
trains-30-years/?
fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg#gallery73>
That's a really good picture, I didnt realise how small they were.
Yes, it's quite a reminder.

And it's worth remembering that the modern-day successors to those little
and large trains share tracks and platforms every day at Acton Town, Ealing
Common and from Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge. It's a similar situation from
Kensal Green to Harrow and Wealdstone.
Basil Jet
2021-01-03 23:05:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Marland
Post by Recliner
<https://www.countypress.co.uk/news/18982235.pictures-island-line-
trains-30-years/?
fbclid=IwAR2u9YuISXwMsJuXYTGi-2cBppsyH7M7P7Eq0do1LFt5sazN9MMCfoazzeg#gallery73>
That's a really good picture, I didnt realise how small they were.
Yes, it's quite a reminder.
And it's worth remembering that the modern-day successors to those little
and large trains share tracks and platforms every day at Acton Town, Ealing
Common and from Rayner's Lane to Uxbridge.
https://imgur.com/r/TrainPorn/fS5dekY
(Both sizes of train use both tracks and platforms, as Recliner said.)
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2008 - This Is Not The World - The Futureheads
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