Discussion:
New, incorrect Northern line diagram
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2021-08-12 20:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Peter Able
2021-08-12 21:06:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Harry Beck will be spinning.

PA
Blueshirt
2021-08-12 22:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
It's mad that nobody spotted the errors before they were issued for
distribution. You'd think these things would have to be approved and
signed off as correct by someone somewhere!
Recliner
2021-08-12 22:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Blueshirt
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
It's mad that nobody spotted the errors before they were issued for
distribution. You'd think these things would have to be approved and
signed off as correct by someone somewhere!
It's extraordinary. This is the first Tube extension in more than 20 years,
and probably the last for at least the next 20 years. You'd think the
management would have agonised over how exactly to depict this rare event
on the line diagram, and carefully checked it. I can't imagine careless
blunders like this when Peter Hendy was guvnor.
Basil Jet
2021-08-12 23:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Blueshirt
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
It's mad that nobody spotted the errors before they were issued for
distribution. You'd think these things would have to be approved and
signed off as correct by someone somewhere!
It's extraordinary. This is the first Tube extension in more than 20 years,
and probably the last for at least the next 20 years. You'd think the
management would have agonised over how exactly to depict this rare event
on the line diagram, and carefully checked it. I can't imagine careless
blunders like this when Peter Hendy was guvnor.
There's now a chance they might name one of the Overground Lines
"The Donald" by mistake.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1980 - In "Jane From Occupied Europe" - Swell Maps
Roland Perry
2021-08-13 08:51:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Blueshirt
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
It's mad that nobody spotted the errors before they were issued for
distribution. You'd think these things would have to be approved and
signed off as correct by someone somewhere!
It's extraordinary. This is the first Tube extension in more than 20 years,
Terminal 5, 2008?
Post by Recliner
and probably the last for at least the next 20 years. You'd think the
management would have agonised over how exactly to depict this rare event
on the line diagram, and carefully checked it. I can't imagine careless
blunders like this when Peter Hendy was guvnor.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-08-13 09:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Blueshirt
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
It's mad that nobody spotted the errors before they were issued for
distribution. You'd think these things would have to be approved and
signed off as correct by someone somewhere!
It's extraordinary. This is the first Tube extension in more than 20 years,
Terminal 5, 2008?
Yes, you're right, I'd forgotten about that.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
and probably the last for at least the next 20 years. You'd think the
management would have agonised over how exactly to depict this rare event
on the line diagram, and carefully checked it. I can't imagine careless
blunders like this when Peter Hendy was guvnor.
Basil Jet
2021-08-13 18:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
It's extraordinary. This is the first Tube extension in more than 20 years,
Terminal 5, 2008?
Yes, you're right, I'd forgotten about that.
You're not alone.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/northern-line-extension-nine-elms-battersea-open-september-b936566.html

More surprisingly, the same mistake was made by either RAIL or Modern
Railways a few months back, as I reported here at the time.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1984 - Parlez-Vous Schaumburg? - Palais Schaumburg
Basil Jet
2021-08-13 14:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Have we worked out yet if the blue strip over the station entrance will
say "Battersea Power Station Station'?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1980 - In "Jane From Occupied Europe" - Swell Maps
Roland Perry
2021-08-13 14:23:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Have we worked out yet if the blue strip over the station entrance will
say "Battersea Power Station Station'?
We should keep our fingers crossed. Mindful that we are only recently
emerged from an era of "East Midlands Trains train" on enunciators.
--
Roland Perry
Peter Johnson
2021-08-13 18:22:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Have we worked out yet if the blue strip over the station entrance will
say "Battersea Power Station Station'?
I have just written 'Liverpool Street Station station' in an MS for a
book about the Post Office Railway that I am hoping to get past the
editor.
Roland Perry
2021-08-14 06:33:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Have we worked out yet if the blue strip over the station entrance will
say "Battersea Power Station Station'?
I have just written 'Liverpool Street Station station' in an MS for a
book about the Post Office Railway that I am hoping to get past the
editor.
Is that in the context of explaining how the PO. Railway stop was called
"Liverpool St", and not in fact "Liverpool St Station [station]". Most
of the stops are named after sorting offices, with three named after the
street they are near?
--
Roland Perry
Peter Johnson
2021-08-14 21:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Have we worked out yet if the blue strip over the station entrance will
say "Battersea Power Station Station'?
I have just written 'Liverpool Street Station station' in an MS for a
book about the Post Office Railway that I am hoping to get past the
editor.
Is that in the context of explaining how the PO. Railway stop was called
"Liverpool St", and not in fact "Liverpool St Station [station]". Most
of the stops are named after sorting offices, with three named after the
street they are near?
The POR station served Liverpool Street Station. The other stations
were named after the sorting offices they served. Although there is a
street named Mount Pleasant the POR station was named after the
sorting office, which, like King Edward Building (London Chief Office)
and Paddington, which shared its name with the GWR station, never had
geographical names like the others.
Roland Perry
2021-08-15 06:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Have we worked out yet if the blue strip over the station entrance will
say "Battersea Power Station Station'?
I have just written 'Liverpool Street Station station' in an MS for a
book about the Post Office Railway that I am hoping to get past the
editor.
Is that in the context of explaining how the PO. Railway stop was called
"Liverpool St", and not in fact "Liverpool St Station [station]". Most
of the stops are named after sorting offices, with three named after the
street they are near?
The POR station served Liverpool Street Station. The other stations
were named after the sorting offices they served.
I wonder if the names changed over time (or if people were just
slipshod)?

Some maps show "Oxford Street" rather than "Western District Post
Office", and "Kind Edward Street" rather than King Edward Building Post
Office", for example.

There's others with "West Central District Office" and plain
"Paddington" (rather than "Paddington District Post Office" or
"Paddington Post Office" or even "Paddington District Office").

It seems leaving words out (or adding others) was a bit of a variable
feast.

Admittedly this one has "Paddington Station" and Liverpool St Station"
(but "King Edward Building"):

<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/11/01/photos-from-the-post-
office-railway-tunnels/>
Post by Peter Johnson
Although there is a street named Mount Pleasant the POR station was
named after the sorting office, which, like King Edward Building
(London Chief Office) and Paddington, which shared its name with the
GWR station, never had geographical names like the others.
--
Roland Perry
Peter Johnson
2021-08-15 14:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Peter Johnson
I have just written 'Liverpool Street Station station' in an MS for a
book about the Post Office Railway that I am hoping to get past the
editor.
Is that in the context of explaining how the PO. Railway stop was called
"Liverpool St", and not in fact "Liverpool St Station [station]". Most
of the stops are named after sorting offices, with three named after the
street they are near?
The POR station served Liverpool Street Station. The other stations
were named after the sorting offices they served.
I wonder if the names changed over time (or if people were just
slipshod)?
Some maps show "Oxford Street" rather than "Western District Post
Office", and "Kind Edward Street" rather than King Edward Building Post
Office", for example.
There's others with "West Central District Office" and plain
"Paddington" (rather than "Paddington District Post Office" or
"Paddington Post Office" or even "Paddington District Office").
It seems leaving words out (or adding others) was a bit of a variable
feast.
Admittedly this one has "Paddington Station" and Liverpool St Station"
<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/11/01/photos-from-the-post-
office-railway-tunnels/>
Post by Peter Johnson
Although there is a street named Mount Pleasant the POR station was
named after the sorting office, which, like King Edward Building
(London Chief Office) and Paddington, which shared its name with the
GWR station, never had geographical names like the others.
Which maps do you mean? I'm pretty sure that none of the stations were
renamed by the PO.
I was referring to PO maps/plans of the 1920s when I composed my
comment. Newspaper reports often said that the railway ran from
Paddington to Shoreditch, presumably on the grounds that readers would
know where Shoreditch was/is, rather than Eastern District Post
Office. The most recent handout for visitors that I have, from 1987,
has the same names as 60 years earlier.
Roland Perry
2021-08-15 16:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Peter Johnson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Peter Johnson
I have just written 'Liverpool Street Station station' in an MS for a
book about the Post Office Railway that I am hoping to get past the
editor.
Is that in the context of explaining how the PO. Railway stop was called
"Liverpool St", and not in fact "Liverpool St Station [station]". Most
of the stops are named after sorting offices, with three named after the
street they are near?
The POR station served Liverpool Street Station. The other stations
were named after the sorting offices they served.
I wonder if the names changed over time (or if people were just
slipshod)?
Some maps show "Oxford Street" rather than "Western District Post
Office", and "Kind Edward Street" rather than King Edward Building Post
Office", for example.
There's others with "West Central District Office" and plain
"Paddington" (rather than "Paddington District Post Office" or
"Paddington Post Office" or even "Paddington District Office").
It seems leaving words out (or adding others) was a bit of a variable
feast.
Admittedly this one has "Paddington Station" and Liverpool St Station"
<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015/11/01/photos-from-the-post-
office-railway-tunnels/>
Post by Peter Johnson
Although there is a street named Mount Pleasant the POR station was
named after the sorting office, which, like King Edward Building
(London Chief Office) and Paddington, which shared its name with the
GWR station, never had geographical names like the others.
Which maps do you mean? I'm pretty sure that none of the stations were
renamed by the PO.
If you do a Google images search, at least a dozen of then pop up
immediately.

The majority (like the one I cited) look pretty authentic (ie not drawn
recently by an enthusiast).
Post by Peter Johnson
I was referring to PO maps/plans of the 1920s when I composed my
comment. Newspaper reports often said that the railway ran from
Paddington to Shoreditch, presumably on the grounds that readers would
know where Shoreditch was/is, rather than Eastern District Post
Office. The most recent handout for visitors that I have, from 1987,
has the same names as 60 years earlier.
One of the sources of maps is the MailRail project (and associated
modern museum), but there are others.

Getting back to the etymological debate, is the TfL construction under
the mainline station also "Liverpool St Station station", or something
else. And in what contexts would one use which form of words?

FWIW, TfL call it "Liverpool Street Station", in contrast to for example
"Kings Cross Underground Station" a little way up the line, on their
journey Planner. On their maps they are "Liverpool Street", and "Kings
Cross & St Pancras International". I hardly dare look at what they use
on their working timetables.

Omnes: "Oh go on, be a devil"... "Liverpool Street" and "King's Cross".
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2021-08-13 14:31:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
Loading Image...
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1980 - In "Jane From Occupied Europe" - Swell Maps
Recliner
2021-08-13 14:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8nrfciWEAM4C50.jpg
A neat solution!
Roland Perry
2021-08-13 14:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8nrfciWEAM4C50.jpg
Who drew that?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-08-13 15:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8nrfciWEAM4C50.jpg
Who drew that?
The author didn't sign it, but Ian Rutson tweeted it. I assume he drew it.
Basil Jet
2021-09-11 07:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
They've cocked up the in-car line diagram too...

https://twitter.com/respros/status/1436294551132590080

The main services should be straight and the rare service should zigzag.
The red message seems unnecessary.

The fact that the line from Kennington to Oval seems to pass through
Zone 1 is a mess. Maybe the new stations should bend back to the left so
that they are in the main Zone 1 stripe.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2015 - Starfire - Jaga Jazzist
Recliner
2021-09-11 08:15:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Geoff has tweeted that the Northern Line is starting to get new line
diagrams showing the Battersea extension... and they have two really
obvious blunders!
<https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/1425907223952334859?s=21>
They've cocked up the in-car line diagram too...
https://twitter.com/respros/status/1436294551132590080
The main services should be straight and the rare service should zigzag.
The red message seems unnecessary.
The fact that the line from Kennington to Oval seems to pass through
Zone 1 is a mess. Maybe the new stations should bend back to the left so
that they are in the main Zone 1 stripe.
Yes, as suggested in this bold 'edit':
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-72X25WEAgWvft?format=jpg&name=large>
Basil Jet
2021-09-19 10:34:45 UTC
Permalink
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.

https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube

The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1978\11 - Dub Housing - Pere Ubu
Recliner
2021-09-19 10:51:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
They've had to shift Vauxhall geographically to manage it, and the easy
cross-platform interchanges at Kennington have been rather stretched, so it
looks like two stations separated by a long walkway or travelator, like
Bank-Monument.
Post by Basil Jet
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
Not so far, but who knows later? Twitter will know if it happens.
Basil Jet
2021-09-19 11:31:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
They've had to shift Vauxhall geographically to manage it, and the easy
cross-platform interchanges at Kennington have been rather stretched, so it
looks like two stations separated by a long walkway or travelator, like
Bank-Monument.
Post by Basil Jet
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
Not so far, but who knows later? Twitter will know if it happens.
The London Rail map is also available at https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track .
I think Vauxhall's been wiggled on that too - the kink in the SWR line
is just bizarre. It seems to show one line at Kennington as Zone 1 only
and the other as Zone 2 only.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1978\11 - Dub Housing - Pere Ubu
Robin
2021-09-19 13:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
They've had to shift Vauxhall geographically to manage it, and the easy
cross-platform interchanges at Kennington have been rather stretched, so it
looks like two stations separated by a long walkway or travelator, like
Bank-Monument.
Post by Basil Jet
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
Not so far, but who knows later?  Twitter will know if it happens.
The London Rail map is also available at https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track .
I think Vauxhall's been wiggled on that too - the kink in the SWR line
is just bizarre. It seems to show one line at Kennington as Zone 1 only
and the other as Zone 2 only.
I noticed that but thought it was /technically/ correct because it was
the location of the station name and (as in the legend) the box around
it - which mattered.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roland Perry
2021-09-19 13:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
They've had to shift Vauxhall geographically to manage it, and the easy
cross-platform interchanges at Kennington have been rather
stretched, so it
looks like two stations separated by a long walkway or travelator, like
Bank-Monument.
Post by Basil Jet
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
Not so far, but who knows later?  Twitter will know if it happens.
The London Rail map is also available at
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track . I think Vauxhall's been wiggled on
that too - the kink in the SWR line is just bizarre. It seems to show
one line at Kennington as Zone 1 only and the other as Zone 2 only.
I noticed that but thought it was /technically/ correct because it was
the location of the station name and (as in the legend) the box around
it - which mattered.
That's right. For stations near the edges of zones, look for the boxes,
not the closeness of the shading.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-09-19 15:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
I see Mr Geezer says: "Today's the day trains start operating on the
Northern line extension. You won't be able to catch one because today's
only a dress rehearsal - all southbound passengers are being detrained at
Kennington - but the new timetable is now underway. Your ability to take a
ride starts at 05:28 tomorrow."
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-09-19 21:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Air rights?
Recliner
2021-09-19 21:38:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Air rights?
One of the causes for construction delays and cost increases was that the
station structures had to be strengthened to support a
larger-than-initially-planned future building over it.
Charles Ellson
2021-09-20 00:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Air rights?
A landowner can lease or sell different levels of his property which
otherwise exists "from the centre of the earth to the top of the sky".
The land registrations at Tower Hill station are fairly complex with
different owners at different heights above/below ground level. A more
common example is a "flying freehold" where the first floor of a
building has an arch/access below it at ground level, the two levels
having different owners.
Basil Jet
2021-09-20 00:17:07 UTC
Permalink
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Peel Sessions - Can
Recliner
2021-09-20 05:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
And from the first public train on the extension:
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>

<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-tKWQAAFj4W?format=jpg&name=medium>
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-20 09:12:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
Roland Perry
2021-09-20 09:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
ladies in implausibly scanty clothing teetering on ludicrously high
heels. I don't know if the former were there to shepherd the latter, or
if they were perhaps expecting a trainload of football "supporters".

The barriers were locked open, so that helped my passengers a bit. LNER
still doing compulsory reservations.
--
Roland Perry
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-20 11:10:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
Post by Roland Perry
ladies in implausibly scanty clothing teetering on ludicrously high
heels. I don't know if the former were there to shepherd the latter, or
if they were perhaps expecting a trainload of football "supporters".
I'm sure if someone got collared by the BTP they could just claim to be an
XR or IB protestor and be given a hug and a coffee.
tim...
2021-10-05 16:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
I'm finding greater compliance on the tube (and bus) than on NR (within
greater London) (including by me)

TfL have jurisdiction over the former and have mandated masks in their T&C,
whereas they have no jurisdiction over the latter's T&C, most of which have
made masks advisory only.

Quite what meaningful punishment contravening the T&Cs can plausibly lead
to, I have no idea.
Charles Ellson
2021-10-05 17:41:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
I'm finding greater compliance on the tube (and bus) than on NR (within
greater London) (including by me)
TfL have jurisdiction over the former and have mandated masks in their T&C,
whereas they have no jurisdiction over the latter's T&C, most of which have
made masks advisory only.
Quite what meaningful punishment contravening the T&Cs can plausibly lead
to, I have no idea.
There is more than one byelaw applicable to people interfering with
the health/safety/comfort of passengers.
tim...
2021-10-05 17:52:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by tim...
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
I'm finding greater compliance on the tube (and bus) than on NR (within
greater London) (including by me)
TfL have jurisdiction over the former and have mandated masks in their T&C,
whereas they have no jurisdiction over the latter's T&C, most of which have
made masks advisory only.
Quite what meaningful punishment contravening the T&Cs can plausibly lead
to, I have no idea.
There is more than one byelaw applicable to people interfering with
the health/safety/comfort of passengers.
That's as maybe

doesn't answer the points that I raised
Charles Ellson
2021-10-05 17:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by tim...
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
I'm finding greater compliance on the tube (and bus) than on NR (within
greater London) (including by me)
TfL have jurisdiction over the former and have mandated masks in their T&C,
whereas they have no jurisdiction over the latter's T&C, most of which have
made masks advisory only.
Quite what meaningful punishment contravening the T&Cs can plausibly lead
to, I have no idea.
There is more than one byelaw applicable to people interfering with
the health/safety/comfort of passengers.
That's as maybe
doesn't answer the points that I raised
What is not meaningful about a court appearance and fine ?
tim...
2021-10-07 05:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by tim...
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by tim...
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
I'm finding greater compliance on the tube (and bus) than on NR (within
greater London) (including by me)
TfL have jurisdiction over the former and have mandated masks in their T&C,
whereas they have no jurisdiction over the latter's T&C, most of which have
made masks advisory only.
Quite what meaningful punishment contravening the T&Cs can plausibly lead
to, I have no idea.
There is more than one byelaw applicable to people interfering with
the health/safety/comfort of passengers.
That's as maybe
doesn't answer the points that I raised
What is not meaningful about a court appearance and fine ?
your post didn't say (and certainly didn't evidence) that that was a likely
or even possible conclusion

There are rules that some rail companies like to interpret as forbidding
putting your feet on the seats

has anyone ever be prosecuted for such a contravention?
Charles Ellson
2021-10-07 23:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by tim...
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by tim...
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:43:39 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 05:50:49 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
That's an amazing picture!
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
Full of mask wearing virtue signallers by the look of it.
I dropped someone off at Peterborough station on Saturday, and almost
no-one was wearing masks. The things I saw were a dozen BTP (a few in
somewhat intimidating paramilitary uniforms) and quite a few young
I was on a busy tube in the rush hour last week, it was probably 50/50 with
mask wearing. A few weeks earlier it was more 80/20 so people are definately
slowly giving up on them. And about time.
I'm finding greater compliance on the tube (and bus) than on NR (within
greater London) (including by me)
TfL have jurisdiction over the former and have mandated masks in their T&C,
whereas they have no jurisdiction over the latter's T&C, most of which have
made masks advisory only.
Quite what meaningful punishment contravening the T&Cs can plausibly lead
to, I have no idea.
There is more than one byelaw applicable to people interfering with
the health/safety/comfort of passengers.
That's as maybe
doesn't answer the points that I raised
What is not meaningful about a court appearance and fine ?
your post didn't say (and certainly didn't evidence) that that was a likely
or even possible conclusion
There are rules that some rail companies like to interpret as forbidding
putting your feet on the seats
has anyone ever be prosecuted for such a contravention?
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3030284/fine-for-having-your-feet-up
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7018004
https://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/139/main-news/124672/huge-fines-to-be-issued-if-you-put-your-feet-up-on-tram-seats
and the Daily Blackshirt gets it a bit wrong :-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3387943/Passenger-fined-50-putting-feet-train-seat-given-written-caution-guard-using-127-year-old-bylaw.html
Basil Jet
2021-09-20 11:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_tG-nxWYAIfSR2?format=jpg&name=medium>
That picture could have been taken anywhere!
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2018 - Play Arthur Russell - Peter Broderick & Friends
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-20 09:12:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:13:53 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Given what covid has done for office working and the cladding scandal coming
home to roost with developers it may be standing for longer than anyone
thinks.
Recliner
2021-09-20 15:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:13:53 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Given what covid has done for office working and the cladding scandal coming
home to roost with developers it may be standing for longer than anyone
thinks.
So people don't need homes in the brave new post-Covid world?
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-20 15:52:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:46:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:13:53 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Given what covid has done for office working and the cladding scandal coming
home to roost with developers it may be standing for longer than anyone
thinks.
So people don't need homes in the brave new post-Covid world?
The sort of people who need homes won't be buying the half million quid
flats that would be built in battersea.
Recliner
2021-09-20 16:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:46:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:13:53 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Given what covid has done for office working and the cladding scandal coming
home to roost with developers it may be standing for longer than anyone
thinks.
So people don't need homes in the brave new post-Covid world?
The sort of people who need homes won't be buying the half million quid
flats that would be built in battersea.
Are there any that cheap? And the people buying them probably got richer
during Covid.
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-21 08:58:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 16:03:30 -0000 (UTC)
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:46:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:13:53 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Basil Jet
The new tube map is now available, showing the new stations as open...
They've probably put a lot of effort into dealing with the zones, and
just about pulled it off.
https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track/tube
The stations allegedly open to the public tomorrow, but I wouldn't be
surprised if they are open today (Sunday).
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_qtYDRXoAU9GNJ?format=jpg&name=medium>
I think there are plans to build over the station, so this stand-alone
version probably won't exist for long.
Given what covid has done for office working and the cladding scandal
coming
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Recliner
Post by H***@the_stables.com
home to roost with developers it may be standing for longer than anyone
thinks.
So people don't need homes in the brave new post-Covid world?
The sort of people who need homes won't be buying the half million quid
flats that would be built in battersea.
Are there any that cheap?
Don't know, possibly not.
Post by H***@the_stables.com
And the people buying them probably got richer during Covid.
No doubt a lot will be lock up leave investments bought by more camel botherers.
Basil Jet
2021-09-20 18:11:43 UTC
Permalink
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.


--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1987 - The Sound Of Music - The dB's
Recliner
2021-09-21 08:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
earlier press day (but reports were embargoed till the opening):


A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations:


I'll upload my pics from yesterday later today.
Basil Jet
2021-09-21 08:17:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".

Jago did that too. Is Terminal 5 the new Isle of Wight?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1991 - Achtung Baby - U2
Graeme Wall
2021-09-21 08:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
Jago did that too. Is Terminal 5 the new Isle of Wight?
No, I believe trains are actually running to T5.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2021-09-21 08:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
Jago did that too. Is Terminal 5 the new Isle of Wight?
No, I believe trains are actually running to T5.
But not T4, thus preventing any new 'all the LU stations' record attempts.
Basil Jet
2021-09-21 09:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Basil Jet
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
Jago did that too. Is Terminal 5 the new Isle of Wight?
No, I believe trains are actually running to T5.
https://iwsteamrailway.co.uk/visit/opening-times/
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1991 - Achtung Baby - U2
Recliner
2021-09-21 08:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
Jago did that too. Is Terminal 5 the new Isle of Wight?
I know, it’s a common mistake (and I made it too, not so long ago, here).
I think that, psychologically, just adding a third Heathrow station doesn't
seem like much of an extension.
Recliner
2021-09-21 08:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
The TfL press release says:

The first major Tube extension this century brings key parts of south
London within 15 minutes of the West End and the City

"After years of hard work, I'm delighted that we're able to open the
Northern Line Extension today and it was great to have the chance to travel
on one of the first trains between Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station."

Transport for London (TfL) today (Monday 20 September) opened the doors to
its two new Tube stations making up the Northern Line Extension, at Nine
Elms and Battersea Power Station. The two step-free Zone 1 stations are set
to dramatically improve the connectivity of these vibrant south London
neighbourhoods and support the capital's recovery from the pandemic at a
vital time.

Major construction on the 3km twin-tunnel railway between Kennington and
Battersea Power Station, via Nine Elms, began in 2015. Despite the
challenges of the pandemic, the construction project stayed on track for an
autumn opening.

Tube services started running on the extension, which is on the Charing
Cross branch of the Northern line, at 05:28 this morning with passengers
including the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan; Secretary of State for
Transport, Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP; London's Transport Commissioner, Andy
Byford; Battersea Power Station Development Company's CEO, Simon Murphy;
Deputy Mayor for Transport, Heidi Alexander; Leader of Wandsworth Council,
Cllr Ravi Govindia and Leader of Lambeth Council, Cllr Claire Holland. In
addition, the Battersea Power Station Community Choir sang at the new
station at Battersea this morning to mark its opening day.

A peak-time service of six trains per hour operates on the extension and
this will increase to 12 trains per hour by mid-2022 as more people move
into new housing in the area and the demand increases. There are five
trains per hour during off-peak times, with this set to double to 10 trains
per hour next year.

The Northern Line Extension is the first major Tube extension this century
and is supporting around 25,000 new jobs and more than 20,000 new homes. In
addition, construction of the extension boosted the UK economy and
supported around 1,000 jobs, including 79 apprenticeships. TfL has
delivered the Northern Line Extension £160m under budget, bringing its
estimated final total cost to £1.1bn, despite the cost pressures brought
about by the pandemic. The spending authority budget was increased to
£1.26bn in January 2016, but TfL has worked hard through strong
collaboration with suppliers to ensure the project provides value for
money.

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said: "After years of hard work, I'm
delighted that we're able to open the Northern Line Extension today and it
was great to have the chance to travel on one of the first trains between
Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station. This extension will hugely improve
the links between these vibrant, growing south London neighbourhoods and
the rest of the capital, and will also help to support thousands of new
jobs and homes as we move forward with London's recovery from the pandemic.
The new stations are beautiful and I encourage Londoners and visitors to
start using the Northern Line Extension to get around and help them enjoy
everything the capital has to offer."

Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, said: "London's world-famous Tube
network has two new stations from today, the first stops to be added so far
this century, with names that will soon become familiar to Londoners as
they return to public transport after the pandemic.

Ahead of the opening of the Elizabeth line next year, these upgrades extend
vital connectivity across the greatest city in the world and show the power
of transport connections."

… continues in

<https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2021/september/new-northern-line-stations-open-today-as-tube-extends-to-battersea-power-station>

Basically, it's correct as long as you always remember to include the word
'major'. But lazy or careless second-hand news reports that try to
summarise the news might easily leave it out.
Roland Perry
2021-09-21 09:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
The first major Tube extension this century brings key parts of south
London within 15 minutes of the West End and the City
I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there, classifies
as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.

Anyone got comparative figures?

The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow 2.5km,
Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance from the
nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
--
Roland Perry
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-21 09:21:32 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 10:10:41 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Jago Hazzard rode on the first train.
http://youtu.be/TZ1LUtTzxj8
So did Geoff Marshall, but he also got to experience the extension on the
http://youtu.be/BSVE3Be-UE0
A much longer account is in the LTM's Hidden London Hangouts. They had
privileged early access, including cab rides and walking the pristine track
between the new stations: http://youtu.be/0R_V5qKZeAM
"The first Underground extension of the 21st Century".
The first major Tube extension this century brings key parts of south
London within 15 minutes of the West End and the City
I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there, classifies
as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
Anyone got comparative figures?
The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow 2.5km,
Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance from the
nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill somewhat
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Certes
2021-09-21 12:32:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill somewhat
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-21 15:44:53 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Basil Jet
2021-09-21 17:09:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
And you think the correct solution to that would be to tunnel two new
platforms on the NLE and two new platforms on the Victoria Line?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1991 - Achtung Baby - U2
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-22 09:31:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:09:30 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
And you think the correct solution to that would be to tunnel two new
platforms on the NLE and two new platforms on the Victoria Line?
Huh? All they needed to do was a slight diversion to vauxhall and build an
interchange there.
Roland Perry
2021-09-22 10:03:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:09:30 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
And you think the correct solution to that would be to tunnel two new
platforms on the NLE and two new platforms on the Victoria Line?
Huh? All they needed to do was a slight diversion to vauxhall and build an
interchange there.
What, with no new platforms on the NLE?
--
Roland Perry
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-22 10:47:12 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 11:03:53 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:09:30 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
And you think the correct solution to that would be to tunnel two new
platforms on the NLE and two new platforms on the Victoria Line?
Huh? All they needed to do was a slight diversion to vauxhall and build an
interchange there.
What, with no new platforms on the NLE?
I misread his post as building 2 new tunnels.
Basil Jet
2021-09-23 18:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Has anyone pointed out that Nine Elms is a terrible name for a station
that's not on Nine Elms Lane? What happened to Batterclapstock?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2011 - Piglet - Sarandon
Charles Ellson
2021-09-21 22:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
Roland Perry
2021-09-22 05:39:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
It's not as simple as that. Oyster will charge different fares from
Vauxhall to the East End, depending on whether you stick to the tube, or
take a National Rail train to Waterloo. This sort of thing is why the
Mayors "Price promise" of no increases in train fares was outrageously
economical with the truth [especially when couched with "no ifs, no
buts"], because while *tfl* fares didn't rise, SWR fares *did*.
--
Roland Perry
Charles Ellson
2021-09-23 00:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you can't
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
It's not as simple as that. Oyster will charge different fares from
Vauxhall to the East End, depending on whether you stick to the tube, or
take a National Rail train to Waterloo. This sort of thing is why the
Mayors "Price promise" of no increases in train fares was outrageously
economical with the truth [especially when couched with "no ifs, no
buts"], because while *tfl* fares didn't rise, SWR fares *did*.
Oyster/contactless from TfL single fare finder

Battersea Park to Bow Road via Victoria
4.80/4.20

Battersea Power Station to Bow Road
3.00/2.50

Battersea Park to Bow Road via Whitechapel
[and Clapham Junction and LO]
2.50/2.30

Battersea Park to Victoria
3.20/2.70
plus
Victoria to Bow Road
3.00/2.50
for
two journeys breaking at Victoria = 6.20/5.20

You are still not paying the fare for two separate journeys with a
break/timeout at Victoria. You are paying different single fares for
different routes.
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-22 09:32:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 23:18:54 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
Have you? NR fares arn't even included in the capping never mind counting
as a single journey.
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-22 09:41:54 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:32:21 -0000 (UTC)
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 23:18:54 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
Have you? NR fares arn't even included in the capping never mind counting
as a single journey.
Correction - they are for certain routes, eg thameslink and great northern,
but even then not always and you often get charged more for the same trip
eg: GR to zone 4 costs more than tube to zone 4. However changing at a mainline
terminus such as victoria will AFAIK always count as the start/end of a trip
unlike at an interchange such as Highbury or Finsbury.
Charles Ellson
2021-09-23 00:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:32:21 -0000 (UTC)
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 23:18:54 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line is
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
Have you? NR fares arn't even included in the capping never mind counting
as a single journey.
Correction - they are for certain routes, eg thameslink and great northern,
but even then not always and you often get charged more for the same trip
eg: GR to zone 4 costs more than tube to zone 4. However changing at a mainline
terminus such as victoria will AFAIK always count as the start/end of a trip
unlike at an interchange such as Highbury or Finsbury.
GR ?
H***@the_stables.com
2021-09-23 09:27:25 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 01:27:24 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 09:32:21 -0000 (UTC)
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 23:18:54 +0100
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 13:32:50 +0100
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
I can't help thinking not having an interchange with the victoria line
is
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
a missed opportunity though I appreciate it would have hiked the bill
somewhat
Post by H***@the_stables.com
and slowed down the victoria line. But it does mean from battersea you
can't
Post by H***@the_stables.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by H***@the_stables.com
get to oxford circus easily.
Battersea Park station has a short route, changing at Victoria.
That way you need to use national rail as well as the tube so you'll get
charged for 2 journeys, not 1.
Have you travelled in London since the introduction of Oyster?
Have you? NR fares arn't even included in the capping never mind counting
as a single journey.
Correction - they are for certain routes, eg thameslink and great northern,
but even then not always and you often get charged more for the same trip
eg: GR to zone 4 costs more than tube to zone 4. However changing at a
mainline
Post by H***@the_stables.com
terminus such as victoria will AFAIK always count as the start/end of a trip
unlike at an interchange such as Highbury or Finsbury.
GR ?
Typo. GN - great northern.
Basil Jet
2021-09-21 09:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there, classifies
as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
Anyone got comparative figures?
The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow 2.5km,
Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance from the
nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will go
to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1991 - Achtung Baby - U2
Roland Perry
2021-09-21 09:55:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
Anyone got comparative figures?
The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km, Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2021-09-21 15:22:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2021-09-21 17:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
It was also the US Embassy that initially wanted the extension and
stumped up for it, if not at least a good part of it, yes?
Recliner
2021-09-21 19:55:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
It was also the US Embassy that initially wanted the extension and
stumped up for it, if not at least a good part of it, yes?
I don't think so.
Roland Perry
2021-09-22 05:57:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
It was also the US Embassy that initially wanted the extension and
stumped up for it, if not at least a good part of it, yes?
I don't think so.
For all those who suspect projects like this are designed on the back of
a beermat, and decided by flipping coin:

<https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1455361/2/ICIF_Northern_Line_Exte
nsion_Case_Study_Oct_2014.pdf>

Funding:

developer contributions, raised by the London Boroughs of Wandsworth
and Lambeth on the BPS site and across the wider VNEB Opportunity
Area under the s106 and Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) regimes;
and
incremental business rates generated in a new EZ and retained by the
Mayor for at least 25 years.

Which moves the goalposts to "Is the Embassy exempt from CIL and
Business Rates?", upon which that particular document is silent.

The lions share, however, is said to be coming from the BPS developers.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-09-22 08:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
It was also the US Embassy that initially wanted the extension and
stumped up for it, if not at least a good part of it, yes?
I don't think so.
For all those who suspect projects like this are designed on the back of
<https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1455361/2/ICIF_Northern_Line_Exte
nsion_Case_Study_Oct_2014.pdf>
developer contributions, raised by the London Boroughs of Wandsworth
and Lambeth on the BPS site and across the wider VNEB Opportunity
Area under the s106 and Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) regimes;
and
incremental business rates generated in a new EZ and retained by the
Mayor for at least 25 years.
Which moves the goalposts to "Is the Embassy exempt from CIL and
Business Rates?", upon which that particular document is silent.
"Diplomatic representatives from foreign countries are officially exempt
from all national, regional or municipal taxes for their buildings,
however, the Government encourages them to pay a “beneficial portion” of
their bill, which equates to just 6% of what any other business would pay
in business rates."

<https://www.altusgroup.com/property/insights/foreign-embassies-rack-up-1-5-million-business-rates-debt/>

So, even if the US Embassy does pay this optional tax, the amount will be
trivial.
Post by Roland Perry
The lions share, however, is said to be coming from the BPS developers.
Yes
Roland Perry
2021-09-22 08:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
It was also the US Embassy that initially wanted the extension and
stumped up for it, if not at least a good part of it, yes?
I don't think so.
For all those who suspect projects like this are designed on the back of
<https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1455361/2/ICIF_Northern_Line_Exte
nsion_Case_Study_Oct_2014.pdf>
developer contributions, raised by the London Boroughs of Wandsworth
and Lambeth on the BPS site and across the wider VNEB Opportunity
Area under the s106 and Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) regimes;
and
incremental business rates generated in a new EZ and retained by the
Mayor for at least 25 years.
Which moves the goalposts to "Is the Embassy exempt from CIL and
Business Rates?", upon which that particular document is silent.
"Diplomatic representatives from foreign countries are officially exempt
from all national, regional or municipal taxes for their buildings,
however, the Government encourages them to pay a “beneficial portion” of
their bill, which equates to just 6% of what any other business would pay
in business rates."
<https://www.altusgroup.com/property/insights/foreign-embassies-rack-up-
1-5-million-business-rates-debt/>
So, even if the US Embassy does pay this optional tax, the amount will be
trivial.
That's the rates; what about the CIL?
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
The lions share, however, is said to be coming from the BPS developers.
Yes
And the Embassy is also an important catalyst for the regeneration of
the area, which generates income to support the tube extension.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2021-09-22 08:49:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
 I think the tunnelling to T5, and building the station there,
classifies  as just-as-major as to Battersea Power-Station Station.
 Anyone got comparative figures?
 The distances (if that even matters as a statistic) are Heathrow
2.5km,  Battersea 2.7km, or 1.6km if we count the walking distance
from the  nearest legacy station - Stockwell.
T5 is way more important. Most people go there sometimes. No-one will
go to Battersea unless they live there or fall asleep on a train.
Isn't the US Embassy somewhere around there now?
Nine Elms
It was also the US Embassy that initially wanted the extension and
stumped up for it, if not at least a good part of it, yes?
I don't think so.
For all those who suspect projects like this are designed on the back of
<https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1455361/2/ICIF_Northern_Line_Exte
nsion_Case_Study_Oct_2014.pdf>
developer contributions, raised by the London Boroughs of Wandsworth
and Lambeth on the BPS site and across the wider VNEB Opportunity
Area under the s106 and Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL) regimes;
and
incremental business rates generated in a new EZ and retained by the
Mayor for at least 25 years.
Which moves the goalposts to "Is the Embassy exempt from CIL and
Business Rates?", upon which that particular document is silent.
"Diplomatic representatives from foreign countries are officially exempt
from all national, regional or municipal taxes for their buildings,
however, the Government encourages them to pay a “beneficial portion” of
their bill, which equates to just 6% of what any other business would pay
in business rates."
<https://www.altusgroup.com/property/insights/foreign-embassies-rack-up-
1-5-million-business-rates-debt/>
So, even if the US Embassy does pay this optional tax, the amount will be
trivial.
That's the rates; what about the CIL?
I think it does pay, but the amounts are very small.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
The lions share, however, is said to be coming from the BPS developers.
Yes
And the Embassy is also an important catalyst for the regeneration of
the area, which generates income to support the tube extension.
Definitely
Basil Jet
2021-09-23 16:46:33 UTC
Permalink
I've just noticed that Google Streetview has views inside New Covent
Garden. I was never able to get inside, but I suppose they must have got
permission. It doesn't look like I was missing out on much.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2009 - And A Panda - Edward Barton
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