Discussion:
DLR to Thamesmead
(too old to reply)
Basil Jet
2020-07-31 20:15:53 UTC
Permalink
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/

I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Zero 7 - 2006 - The Garden
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-01 07:31:33 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Basil Jet
2020-08-01 12:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers

Or maybe you meant something else?
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Simple Minds - 2005 - Black & White 050505
Recliner
2020-08-01 14:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Graeme Wall
2020-08-01 15:10:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help
matters much.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-08-01 15:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help
matters much.
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
Graham Harrison
2020-08-02 16:13:50 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help
matters much.
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.

I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would
change if a Thamesmead extension happened.
Recliner
2020-08-02 16:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graham Harrison
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help
matters much.
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.
I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would
change if a Thamesmead extension happened.
The Thamesmead branch woukd take years of planning and building. Recasting
the timetable takes months. Clearly a major new branch would change a lot.
Graham Harrison
2020-08-02 18:46:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 16:35:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Graham Harrison
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help
matters much.
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.
I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would
change if a Thamesmead extension happened.
The Thamesmead branch woukd take years of planning and building. Recasting
the timetable takes months. Clearly a major new branch would change a lot.
You see, I read your previous post as extolling the virtues of all the
current interchanges which would be available to passengers on trains
from Becton today (much less Thamesmead).
Recliner
2020-08-04 11:47:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 19:46:35 +0100, Graham Harrison
Post by Graham Harrison
On Sun, 2 Aug 2020 16:35:21 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Graham Harrison
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 15:28:38 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity. The last thing it needs is a branch to a new catchment
area.
Given you can interchange from DLR to Jubilee, that's not going to help
matters much.
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.
I don't see any suggestion that the current service pattern would
change if a Thamesmead extension happened.
The Thamesmead branch woukd take years of planning and building. Recasting
the timetable takes months. Clearly a major new branch would change a lot.
You see, I read your previous post as extolling the virtues of all the
current interchanges which would be available to passengers on trains
from Becton today (much less Thamesmead).
Even with the current timetable, why wouldn't they simply change to
Crossrail at Custom House? That would provide a much faster route to
Canary Wharf, the City, the West End and Heathrow.

Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities? That route provides interchanges to the District,
Hammersmith and Central lines, as well as the Jubilee at Canning Town.
Robin
2020-08-04 20:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities?
I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton
trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Recliner
2020-08-04 21:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Recliner
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities?
I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton
trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway.
Has it always been that way?
Robin
2020-08-04 22:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin
Post by Recliner
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities?
I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton
trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway.
Has it always been that way?
Pass.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Recliner
2020-08-04 23:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin
Post by Recliner
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities?
I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton
trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway.
Has it always been that way?
Pass.
I had the impression that the services previously alternated between the
two destinations, but I could be wrong.
Basil Jet
2020-08-04 23:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin
Post by Recliner
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities?
I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton
trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway.
Has it always been that way?
Pass.
I had the impression that the services previously alternated between the
two destinations, but I could be wrong.
This 2016 map...

Loading Image...

... suggests that you are correct.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Legendary Pink Dots - 1984 - Faces In The Fire
Recliner
2020-08-04 23:54:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin
Post by Recliner
Don't some Beckton trains go to Stratford, with its many interchange
possibilities?
I think not. The DLR timetable is consistent with the DLR map: Beckton
trains serve only the stations to Tower Gateway.
Has it always been that way?
Pass.
I had the impression that the services previously alternated between the
two destinations, but I could be wrong.
This 2016 map...
https://mapa-metro.com/mapas/DLR%20Londres/docklands_light_railway.jpg
... suggests that you are correct.
Thanks.

The DLR does have a very flexible network, with good, grade-separated
options at Canning Town and Poplar. As its catchment areas develop, it's
easy to change the service patterns to meet demand.
London calling
2020-08-16 18:20:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 17:13:50 +0100, Graham Harrison
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Recliner
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.
Beckton please!
tim...
2020-08-18 07:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by London calling
On Sun, 02 Aug 2020 17:13:50 +0100, Graham Harrison
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Recliner
Yes, but the DLR also interchanges with the Crossrail, GA and C2C main
lines as well as the District, H&C and Central lines. Those provide better
journey opportunities to most parts of central London than the crowded
Jubilee.
But a lot of that isn't at stations the Becton branch currently
serves. Not only that but Becton serves Tower Gateway so even where
interchanges do exist they aren't perfect.
Beckton please!
That's be 1 and 6 sir

tim...
2020-08-02 10:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity.
that's irrelevant

It's the loading on the part after the potential split that matters

The question is

"can half of the Stratford trains be diverted to the new destination without
creating overcrowding"
Recliner
2020-08-02 10:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
I think the new CAF 5-car DLR trains will have a slightly greater
capacity than the current 3-car DLR fleet.
Post by Basil Jet
Or maybe you meant something else?
Also, the central section of the Jubilee line was already running at
max capacity.
that's irrelevant
It's the loading on the part after the potential split that matters
The question is
"can half of the Stratford trains be diverted to the new destination without
creating overcrowding"
It would make the overcrowding worse on both the core and the Stratford
branch. It's a non-starter.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-02 14:20:32 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the
number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains
trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops
and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections.
Recliner
2020-08-03 00:03:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:28:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 21:15:53 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-a
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
dvance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
IMO the DLR is already too big for what it is and couldn't cope with
the traffic flow even when I last commuted on it in 2014. Any further
transport enhancements in that area should involve the jubilee line.
Jubilee train = 875 passengers
DLR triple train = 852 passengers
Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the
number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains
trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops
and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections.
The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR
route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine
network.

But, as far as Thamesmead is concerned, I think it would be much better
served by a tram route to Abbey Wood. That would provide much more capacity
and speed into central London, both via the classic route into London
Bridge and Crossrail.
Basil Jet
2020-08-03 06:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
But, as far as Thamesmead is concerned, I think it would be much better
served by a tram route to Abbey Wood. That would provide much more capacity
and speed into central London, both via the classic route into London
Bridge and Crossrail.
I never understood why the justification for bringing Crossrail to Abbey
Wood was to serve Thamesmead, when Crossrail could have skipped Woolwich
and gone to Thamesmead before joining the North Kent line at Belvedere.
And now they're talking about extending the DLR because they've suddenly
noticed that Crossrail at Abbey Wood doesn't serve Thamesmead.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Girls At Our Best! - 1980 - Getting Nowhere Fast
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-03 11:01:53 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the
number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains
trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops
and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections.
The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR
route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine
network.
I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it
it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which
were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus
the occasional train to and from tower gateway.
Recliner
2020-08-03 13:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the
number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains
trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops
and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections.
The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR
route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine
network.
I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it
it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which
were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus
the occasional train to and from tower gateway.
People coming from any years-in-the-future DLR Thamesmead branch will
have the opportunity to change to Crossrail at Custom House. That will
get them into Canary Wharf or the City much faster than staying on the
DLR all the way. So they mostly won't be using the Bank branch of the
DLR.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-03 15:00:17 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:03:39 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the
number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains
trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops
and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections.
The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR
route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine
network.
I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it
it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which
were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus
the occasional train to and from tower gateway.
People coming from any years-in-the-future DLR Thamesmead branch will
have the opportunity to change to Crossrail at Custom House. That will
get them into Canary Wharf or the City much faster than staying on the
DLR all the way. So they mostly won't be using the Bank branch of the
DLR.
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster.
Recliner
2020-08-03 15:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 03 Aug 2020 14:03:39 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 00:03:09 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Well for a start the transverse seating in DLR trains severly retricts the
number of standees compared to a jubilee train and secondly the DLR trains
trundle along at a slow to moderate speed, there are far too many stops
and too many branches all cramming their trains into the central sections.
The only 'central section' through Poplar is 4-track. But not every DLR
route goes that way. It's not a core route with branches, but a genuine
network.
I said sections, plural. But Bank is the main one and when I last used it
it had trains heading off the Woolwich - presumably for the airport - which
were virtually empty and the ones to canary wharf which were rammed. Plus
the occasional train to and from tower gateway.
People coming from any years-in-the-future DLR Thamesmead branch will
have the opportunity to change to Crossrail at Custom House. That will
get them into Canary Wharf or the City much faster than staying on the
DLR all the way. So they mostly won't be using the Bank branch of the
DLR.
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster.
It would not be a disaster, and I'm sure we'll see more DLR branches. But I
think there are better ways of serving a major new Thamesmead development,
particularly trams to Abbey Wood.
Basil Jet
2020-08-03 16:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster.
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Faith No More - 1989 - The Real Thing
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-04 07:49:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster.
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding). If the DLR wanted to improve their service closing
west india quay and heron quay stations would be a good place to start. The
latter having precisely zero footfall even in the rush hour when I used the
service and the former not much more plus its only a 3 min walk from canary
wharf station anyway.
Recliner
2020-08-04 11:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a disaster.
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
If the DLR wanted to improve their service closing
west india quay and heron quay stations would be a good place to start. The
latter having precisely zero footfall even in the rush hour when I used the
service and the former not much more plus its only a 3 min walk from canary
wharf station anyway.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-05 07:57:01 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
Recliner
2020-08-05 08:23:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City
much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2
(which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-05 08:48:53 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City
much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2
(which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow.
IME people rarely get off one train to go and wait for another going to the
same destination especially if they have a seat. By the time they've walked
down to the crossrail platforms and waited for a train the DLR train would
probably already be at or near canary wharf or poplar (which is a 5 min walk).
If they're going to Bank maybe they would depending whether Liverpool Street
is close enough to where they're going.
Recliner
2020-08-05 09:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City
much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2
(which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow.
IME people rarely get off one train to go and wait for another going to the
same destination especially if they have a seat. By the time they've walked
down to the crossrail platforms and waited for a train the DLR train would
probably already be at or near canary wharf or poplar (which is a 5 min walk).
No way. The lines are right alongside each other on the surface, and it
would only take a couple of minutes to cross over. They're then only three
minutes away from Canary Wharf and 10 from Liverpool St.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
If they're going to Bank maybe they would depending whether Liverpool Street
is close enough to where they're going.
The Crossrail station also serves Moorgate, and then Barbican/Farringdon.
That's effectively four stations in the City.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-05 15:48:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 09:24:51 -0000 (UTC)
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 08:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then
tube/walk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station. That gets them to Canary Wharf and the City
much faster than the DLR. It also gets them quickly to the West End, HS2
(which will be open before this extension) and Heathrow.
IME people rarely get off one train to go and wait for another going to the
same destination especially if they have a seat. By the time they've walked
down to the crossrail platforms and waited for a train the DLR train would
probably already be at or near canary wharf or poplar (which is a 5 min
walk).
No way. The lines are right alongside each other on the surface, and it
would only take a couple of minutes to cross over. They're then only three
minutes away from Canary Wharf and 10 from Liverpool St.
3 minutes once a train bothers to show up (service frequencies are a nice
work of fiction whenever NR is involved which is why the Overground can't be
relied on) which may be packed anyway. I really doubt many people would bother.
Basil Jet
2020-08-05 09:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by Recliner
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station.
It's not a cross-platform interchange, even though it would not have
taken much effort to make it one, so I don't think interchange there is
viewed as that important.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Legendary Pink Dots - 1984 - Faces In The Fire
Recliner
2020-08-05 09:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by Recliner
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf. Whether it would be quicker than taking
a train to cannoan street or wherever they go on that line and then tube/walk
I don't know, but having more than 1 option always helps make a place more
popular.
No, they change to Crossrail at Custom House, which is designed as a
convenient interchange station.
It's not a cross-platform interchange, even though it would not have
taken much effort to make it one, so I don't think interchange there is
viewed as that important.
Yes, it's a pity it's not cross-platform (ditto at Abbey Wood, where the
interchange *is* important and was originally planned to be
cross-platform). It's probably not important while the DLR only gets as far
as Beckton, but that could change if the DLR gets a further eastern
extension.
tim...
2020-08-05 10:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas

not something the average city worker aspires to
Recliner
2020-08-05 12:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
Basil Jet
2020-08-05 12:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
And Clockwork Orange fans!
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
The Legendary Pink Dots - 1984 - Faces In The Fire
Recliner
2020-08-05 13:45:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
And Clockwork Orange fans!
Yes, though I suspect that the backdrops from that film will have been
demolished by then (if they haven't already?).

The impression I have is that they basically plan to knock down the
ugly concrete towers and start again.
tim...
2020-08-06 08:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
there's already a huge estate of council flats there

are they going to knock those down?
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot

The point is that the area already has a large amount of housing on it, and
it's got the reputation of not attracting the most desirable of neighbours.
Recliner
2020-08-06 08:18:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
there's already a huge estate of council flats there
are they going to knock those down?
I think that's the idea.
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot\
You missed the point, so, yes you are.
tim...
2020-08-06 09:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up
route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
there's already a huge estate of council flats there
are they going to knock those down?
I think that's the idea.
Hum,

seems ambitious to me, to move 40,000 people first

of course if you knock just one block down and leave 39,000 low rent people
as neighbours the only tenants you are going to get for those new properties
are people who look the people next door

You can't gentrify an area by building a single high quality property next
to dozens of low quality properties

It's been tried before, and it usually doesn't work
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot\
You missed the point,
I missed something that you didn't say
Post by Recliner
so, yes you are.
that makes me uninformed, not an idiot
Recliner
2020-08-06 09:47:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR
is
the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run
to
Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged
up
route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
How do you know? The aim is to build a new town.
there's already a huge estate of council flats there
are they going to knock those down?
I think that's the idea.
Hum,
seems ambitious to me, to move 40,000 people first
of course if you knock just one block down and leave 39,000 low rent people
as neighbours the only tenants you are going to get for those new properties
are people who look the people next door
The plan to build on more land in the area, as you would have seen if you
read the plan I posted.

For example, Southmere Village:
<https://www.thamesmeadnow.org.uk/the-plan/growth-and-regeneration/south-thamesmead/southmere-village/>
Post by tim...
You can't gentrify an area by building a single high quality property next
to dozens of low quality properties
It's been tried before, and it usually doesn't work
Agreed, they would need to raise the tone of the whole area. You can't sell
upmarket houses next to a rough council estate.
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
Post by Recliner
Post by tim...
not something the average city worker aspires to
It'll appeal to people who can afford properties in the new town, and
work somewhere in London (not just the City).
I don't need to be told the geographical advantages, I'm not an idiot
You missed the point,
I missed something that you didn't say
Post by Recliner
so, yes you are.
that makes me uninformed, not an idiot
Your choice of word, not mine.
Graeme Wall
2020-08-05 17:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
not something the average city worker aspires to
Not heard of gentrification?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-08-05 20:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
not something the average city worker aspires to
Not heard of gentrification?
I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.
b***@nowhere.co.uk
2020-08-06 07:45:27 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Not heard of gentrification?
I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.
Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now, albeit for a certain meaning of
"desirable". Living in an overpriced box 20 floors up looking at skyscrapers
is not my idea of it but it certainly works for some people.
Recliner
2020-08-06 08:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Not heard of gentrification?
I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.
Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now, albeit for a certain meaning of
"desirable". Living in an overpriced box 20 floors up looking at skyscrapers
is not my idea of it but it certainly works for some people.
Yes, although I wonder how many of those glassy apartments are occupied
seven days a week? Some are just investment properties, perhaps used by
their foreign owners for a couple of months a year (or maybe just left
empty, 'safety boxes in the sky'). Many others are owned by the richer
Canary Wharf workers (eg, dealers or senior executives) and used as
pied-à-terres for maybe three or four nights a week. Their real family
homes are in leafier places, many miles away.

Thamesmead is far enough away that homes there might actually be lived in.
tim...
2020-08-06 08:27:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:25:36 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Not heard of gentrification?
I think the concrete wastelands of Thamesmead would be immune from that.
But if they're replaced by smart riverside apartment blocks and leafy low
rise 'executive housing' with 'water festures', they could become quite
desirable.
Compare Canary Wharf in the 80s to now,
Canary Wharf, didn't have 40,000 people to find new homes for before
re-development

Most of the redeveloped land in the dock was disused commercial land
tim...
2020-08-06 08:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
not something the average city worker aspires to
Not heard of gentrification?
of course

But it's going to take decades to manage that at Thamesmead

And I think London's run out of places to move the undesirable tenants to
Recliner
2020-08-06 08:35:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:48:58 +0100
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 17:26:36 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Quite possibly, however that doesn't change the fact that the DLR is the
tubes poor relation and adding yet another branch to it would be a
disaster.
Post by b***@nowhere.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
I don't see how you can say that. There are parts of the tube where an
extra branch would be great, there are parts where it would not. The
same is true of the DLR. It's just a network of lines, like the tube.
Well I suppose it depends where it connects, but if the trains run to Bank
which they'll need to to be any use it'll clog up an already clogged up route
(covid notwithstanding).
Why would future Thamesmead commuters take the DLR all the way to
Bank, even if there were direct trains?
City workers. If the DLR went out that way it would become a commuter hotspot
to central london and canary wharf.
only if you want to live in one of London's most deprived areas
not something the average city worker aspires to
Not heard of gentrification?
of course
But it's going to take decades to manage that at Thamesmead
And I think London's run out of places to move the undesirable tenants to
FWIW, this is the plan:
<https://www.thamesmeadnow.org.uk/the-plan/>
Graham Harrison
2020-08-02 16:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
Will we actually need any extension in the future?
Graham Harrison
2020-08-02 16:11:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?

Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Some kind of high capacity local feeder system (aka tramway)?
Recliner
2020-08-02 16:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?
Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Some kind of high capacity local feeder system (aka tramway)?
Yes, I think a north/south tram network centred on Abbey Wood might be a
much cheaper, acceptable alternative.
Graeme Wall
2020-08-02 16:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?
Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to
have gone to Thamesmead in the first place.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-08-02 16:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?
Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to
have gone to Thamesmead in the first place.
Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the
Olympics.
Graeme Wall
2020-08-02 21:17:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?
Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to
have gone to Thamesmead in the first place.
Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the
Olympics.
The rerouting was long before the Olympics were a consideration.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2020-08-02 21:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?
Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to
have gone to Thamesmead in the first place.
Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the
Olympics.
The rerouting was long before the Olympics were a consideration.
Yes, but the Olympics triggered the redevelopment of the area to the
northwest of Stratford station.
bob
2020-08-03 08:16:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Graham Harrison
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
What other alternatives are there?
Extend Barking Riverside under the river?
Take Crossrail into Thamesmead?
Wasn't the original version (Fleet Line) of the Jubilee line supposed to
have gone to Thamesmead in the first place.
Yes, but that was before Canary Wharf subsidised the diversion, and the
Olympics.
The rerouting was long before the Olympics were a consideration.
While the Olympics were the vehicle by which the redevelopment
happened, at the time the JLE was in planning, it was clear that
redevelopment in some format would take place, and providing better
transport links was intended to facilitate this (along with the white
elephant international station at Stratford).

Robin
Recliner
2020-08-06 12:27:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
This consultation dates from 2020 BC (Before Covid) so I'm not sure if
this project is even alive now. There's a map at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/02/05/plans-to-extend-dlr-to-thamesmead-advance/
I'm mystified by the plan. Would the trains reverse at Beckton to get
there? Or would Beckton have its own service and Thamesmead have its own
service? Extending from Woolwich seems to make more sense - or reversing
at Woolwich, since the trains actually curve around under the river to
come into Woolwich from the east. This would give people in Thamesmead
direct service to Woolwich and City Airport, whereas plugging them into
the Beckton Branch doesn't really give them much. It would also remove
the extra Thames Tunnel from the plan, so should work out cheaper.
Returning to your question, I really can't see any chance of this
happening. The Thamesmead plan references Abbey Wood, but not the DLR.
And if an existing line were to be extended across the Thames, I'd
have thought it would be the Goblin.

It's far more likely that Thamesmead with just get a better bus
service to Abbey Wood (smart electric buses, segregated bus lanes,
traffic light priority, etc). Not only is this vastly cheaper, but it
can serve a wider area, with stops around the estate, rather than just
having one station. The bus network can also be adapted as new
developments are occupied.

For either the DLR or the Goblin to be extended across the Thames
would almost certainly need a substantial contribution from the
property developer. But that is Peabody, which is creating affordable
homes, not someone like Berkeley Homes.
Loading...