Where are you going on 24th May?

[Ian Clifton]

Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

[Ian Clifton]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

Yes, and yes (it’s all in the name).

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from
Paddington to Heathrow are:

Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.

Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.

The Tube is much cheaper, as it doesn't have to use HAL's expensive tunnel:

Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.

Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.


https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-finder?intcmp=54716

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6
fare. Although I note that on this map the three heavy rail stations at
Heathrow have tiptoed into "outside Z6", and more surprisingly outside
the "PAYG" area.

<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Connect
ions.pdf>

Gatwick, while being outside Z6, is nevertheless inside the PAYG zone.

I'm now a bit confused as to whether I can travel to LHR/Liz-line on
Oyster, or not. And if I can't, where am I supposed to buy the prepay
ticket from?

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6
fare. Although I note that on this map the three heavy rail stations at
Heathrow have tiptoed into "outside Z6", and more surprisingly outside
the "PAYG" area.
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Connect
ions.pdf>
Gatwick, while being outside Z6, is nevertheless inside the PAYG zone.
I'm now a bit confused as to whether I can travel to LHR/Liz-line on
Oyster, or not. And if I can't, where am I supposed to buy the prepay
ticket from?

Why are you using a 2016 map to look for 2022 fare zones? TfL Rail didn't even exist back then. Why not use a current
map?

They are all in the Oyster and PayG areas. If you used the link I provided, it shows the fares I cited as valid on
Oyster and Contactless. That also applies to HEx, though the fare rises to £25.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6
fare. Although I note that on this map the three heavy rail stations at
Heathrow have tiptoed into "outside Z6", and more surprisingly outside
the "PAYG" area.
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Connect
ions.pdf>
Gatwick, while being outside Z6, is nevertheless inside the PAYG zone.
I'm now a bit confused as to whether I can travel to LHR/Liz-line on
Oyster, or not. And if I can't, where am I supposed to buy the prepay
ticket from?

Why are you using a 2016 map to look for 2022 fare zones?

It's the one at Nationalrail.co.uk

Post by Recliner
TfL Rail didn't even exist back then. Why not use a current
map?
They are all in the Oyster and PayG areas. If you used the link I
provided, it shows the fares I cited as valid on Oyster and
Contactless. That also applies to HEx, though the fare rises to £25.

If all the stops a Heathrow are in Z6, why don't they all cost the same
to travel to? Surly the more expensive ones should be in another zone.

While we are at it, is a Z6 travelcard equally valid on all the services
(except HEx).

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6
fare. Although I note that on this map the three heavy rail stations at
Heathrow have tiptoed into "outside Z6", and more surprisingly outside
the "PAYG" area.
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Connect
ions.pdf>
Gatwick, while being outside Z6, is nevertheless inside the PAYG zone.
I'm now a bit confused as to whether I can travel to LHR/Liz-line on
Oyster, or not. And if I can't, where am I supposed to buy the prepay
ticket from?

Why are you using a 2016 map to look for 2022 fare zones?

It's the one at Nationalrail.co.uk

Post by Recliner
TfL Rail didn't even exist back then. Why not use a current
map?
They are all in the Oyster and PayG areas. If you used the link I
provided, it shows the fares I cited as valid on Oyster and
Contactless. That also applies to HEx, though the fare rises to £25.

If all the stops a Heathrow are in Z6, why don't they all cost the same
to travel to? Surly the more expensive ones should be in another zone.

It's interesting to compare the Heathrow fares with those to West Drayton, also in zone 6:

Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.

Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.

(ie, the same as the Tube fares to Heathrow)

Post by Roland Perry
While we are at it, is a Z6 travelcard equally valid on all the services
(except HEx).

Yes, I think so.

[Rink]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Connections.pdf>
Gatwick, while being outside Z6, is nevertheless inside the PAYG zone.
I'm now a bit confused as to whether I can travel to LHR/Liz-line on
Oyster, or not. And if I can't, where am I supposed to buy the prepay
ticket from?

Why are you using a 2016 map to look for 2022 fare zones?

It's the one at Nationalrail.co.uk

No it's not.

Found at:

<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/rail-maps.aspx#london_rail_and_tube>

Rail and Tube QR Map May 2022.v2:

<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Rail%20and%20Tube%20QR%20Map%20May%202022.v2.pdf>


includes the Elizabeth Line


Rink

[Roland Perry]

Post by Rink

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Conne
ctions.pdf>
Gatwick, while being outside Z6, is nevertheless inside the PAYG zone.
I'm now a bit confused as to whether I can travel to LHR/Liz-line on
Oyster, or not. And if I can't, where am I supposed to buy the prepay
ticket from?

Why are you using a 2016 map to look for 2022 fare zones?

It's the one at Nationalrail.co.uk

No it's not.
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/rail-maps.aspx#lon
don_rail_and_tube>
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Rail%20and%20Tube%20QR%20Map%20May%20202
2.v2.pdf>
includes the Elizabeth Line

I just checked my link above
<https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/London_Connectio
ns.pdf> and it's still there and still 2016. And was the map that Google
found for me.

So any criticism needs to be directed either at them (for producing it
as search results) or Nationalrail for still having it there under that
name.

Rather than perhaps some other name like
London_Connections_Archived_2016.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

[Robin]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: Ł11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: Ł10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: Ł5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: Ł3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

Khan made other promises that he cannot now keep. But the premium fares
for Heathrow were widely reported last summer so not "new news".

What I've not yet seen is if they are - as reported last year - going to
be subject to the daily price caps which should soften the blow for a
fair few users.

[Roland Perry]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

16 March 2018 the Mayor said:

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."

So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.

6th July 2021 reported in the Standard:

"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.

By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.

But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.

And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow
will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this
the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the
piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return
trips to the airport will be saved by the cap.

[Blueshirt]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return
trips to the airport will be saved by the cap.

Which is fair enough, as what else are tourists to London there for
apart from to be fleeced?*


[*The same as tourists to any big city.]

[Roland Perry]

Post by Blueshirt

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return
trips to the airport will be saved by the cap.

Which is fair enough, as what else are tourists to London there for
apart from to be fleeced?*

One argument is that without their fares revenue, the line to the
airport might never have been built. And what's £5.80 in the grand
scheme of a foreign holiday? They should perhaps be grateful they
aren't having to pay £50 for a taxi.

Post by Blueshirt
[*The same as tourists to any big city.]

Indeed.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from
heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL
really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most
locals will still pile onto the piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.

Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)

However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from
heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL
really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most
locals will still pile onto the piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and it's free for direct HAL workers:
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/public-transport>

Team Heathrow colleagues with a valid airport ID can take advantage of a 75% discount on single, period return and
carnet tickets* for HEx (for travel in Express Class only). These discounted tickets are available to purchase either
via the Heathrow Express App, from the Service Support Assistants (SSAs) at Heathrow stations or from the GWR ticket
office at Paddington Station (* discounted carnet tickets are only available from SSAs at Heathrow). You will need to
have your airport ID with you when purchasing and using these tickets. When using the App, please select "Heathrow
Airport Partners Discount" in the 'Add a railcard' section when you search for tickets. Example prices as at 20/7/21 -
£9.25 for a return, £49.50 for a 12 trip Carnet (the equivalent of £8.25 return).

Free travel on Heathrow Express for direct Heathrow Airport Limited (HAL) employees is available after 18:00 on
weekdays, and anytime at weekends and on public holidays. HAL colleagues can also take up to three friends and family
members for free at these times. HAL colleagues must present their valid Heathrow ID (displaying the Heathrow logo) at
the ticket gates at Paddington and Heathrow to be given free entry and exit to the platform - no ticket is required.

From Sunday 1 May 2022, direct HAL employees can travel for free at any time. Please note, free travel at any time is
only for direct HAL employees; their friends and family members can only travel with them for free after 18:00 on
weekdays, and any time at weekends and on public holidays. Non-HAL staff must purchase a valid ticket.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from
heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL
really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most
locals will still pile onto the piccadilly line and save themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
The Tube is much cheaper, as it doesn't have to use HAL's
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

Post by Recliner
Team Heathrow colleagues with a valid airport ID can take advantage of
a 75% discount on single, period return and
carnet tickets* for HEx (for travel in Express Class only). These
discounted tickets are available to purchase either
via the Heathrow Express App, from the Service Support Assistants
(SSAs) at Heathrow stations or from the GWR ticket
office at Paddington Station (* discounted carnet tickets are only
available from SSAs at Heathrow). You will need to
have your airport ID with you when purchasing and using these tickets.
When using the App, please select "Heathrow
Airport Partners Discount" in the 'Add a railcard' section when you
search for tickets. Example prices as at 20/7/21 -
£9.25 for a return, £49.50 for a 12 trip Carnet (the equivalent of £8.25 return).
Free travel on Heathrow Express for direct Heathrow Airport Limited
(HAL) employees is available after 18:00 on
weekdays, and anytime at weekends and on public holidays. HAL
colleagues can also take up to three friends and family
members for free at these times. HAL colleagues must present their
valid Heathrow ID (displaying the Heathrow logo) at
the ticket gates at Paddington and Heathrow to be given free entry and
exit to the platform - no ticket is required.
From Sunday 1 May 2022, direct HAL employees can travel for free at any
time. Please note, free travel at any time is
only for direct HAL employees; their friends and family members can
only travel with them for free after 18:00 on
weekdays, and any time at weekends and on public holidays. Non-HAL
staff must purchase a valid ticket.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from
heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL
really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most
locals will still pile onto the piccadilly line and save
themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount. TfL
Rail/Liz is wholly-owned by TfL, and it sets the fares and discounts. So
HAL switched the employee discount to HEx, which it owns (though it
outsources the operation to GWR).

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:15:08 +0100, Roland Perry

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from
heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL
really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most
locals will still pile onto the piccadilly line and save
themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

But just HEx, not whatever TfL rail calls that line this week.

So that's 75% off £37, which is £9.25; and obviously not in a TfL
daily/weekly cap. So unless you don't want to have any onward travel
from Paddington, it's a poor buy.

Nor of course does it offer much for workers living in the catchment
areas of intermediate stations (which was the whole point of Heathrow
Connect, originally).

Post by Recliner
The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount.

It's disappeared, but I'm not sure I agree on the date. There's stuff
online that says it disappeared in 2021 as a result of post-Covid belt
tightening.

<https://www.gmblondon.org.uk/news/save-free-and-discounted-travel-for-
heathrow-airport-staff>

Post by Recliner
TfL Rail/Liz is wholly-owned by TfL, and it sets the fares and
discounts. So HAL switched the employee discount to HEx, which it owns
(though it outsources the operation to GWR).

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:15:08 +0100, Roland Perry

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Thu, 5 May 2022 13:39:20 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Wed, 4 May 2022 13:15:33 +0100

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Ian Clifton
Where: Abbey Wood
Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from
heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL
really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most
locals will still pile onto the piccadilly line and save
themselves a fiver.

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from

The physical railway track yes.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
The Tube is much cheaper, as it doesn't have to use HAL's
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

But just HEx, not whatever TfL rail calls that line this week.

TfL Rail has been the name for the last four years.

Post by Roland Perry
So that's 75% off £37, which is £9.25; and obviously not in a TfL
daily/weekly cap. So unless you don't want to have any onward travel
from Paddington, it's a poor buy.

Agreed. Of course, it's a much worse buy for ordinary punters who have to
pay full price.

Post by Roland Perry
Nor of course does it offer much for workers living in the catchment
areas of intermediate stations (which was the whole point of Heathrow
Connect, originally).

Yes

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount.

It's disappeared, but I'm not sure I agree on the date. There's stuff
online that says it disappeared in 2021 as a result of post-Covid belt
tightening.
<https://www.gmblondon.org.uk/news/save-free-and-discounted-travel-for-
heathrow-airport-staff>

That doesn't say that there was ever a discount on TfL Rail for airport
workers.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
The Tube is much cheaper, as it doesn't have to use HAL's
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially,
retaining the Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping
the Elizabeth Line trips within the scope of daily capping, so
the only people it will affect are the un-capped - ie mainly
tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

But just HEx, not whatever TfL rail calls that line this week.

TfL Rail has been the name for the last four years.

It's a figure of speech, to highlight four names in fourteen years:
Connect, TfL Rail, Crossrail [it's a name even if not painted on the
signs] and EL [when will the signs have the masking tape - another
figure of speech - ripped off?]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
So that's 75% off £37, which is £9.25; and obviously not in a TfL
daily/weekly cap. So unless you don't want to have any onward travel
from Paddington, it's a poor buy.

Agreed. Of course, it's a much worse buy for ordinary punters who have to
pay full price.

It's always been priced to be sufficiently cheaper than a taxi, while
still reaching its target loading. And has succeeded in that. If you
weren't ever even considering using a taxi, it's not the train for you.

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
Nor of course does it offer much for workers living in the catchment
areas of intermediate stations (which was the whole point of Heathrow
Connect, originally).

Yes

It's pretty much reduced to being figleaf, although some direct HAL
employees living in Z2 near Paddington might benefit. As it's HAL's
train, it's really just a perk for employees, like priv tickets on
National Rail (which I presume office staff used to get too).

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount.

It's disappeared, but I'm not sure I agree on the date. There's stuff
online that says it disappeared in 2021 as a result of post-Covid belt
tightening.
<https://www.gmblondon.org.uk/news/save-free-and-discounted-travel-for-
heathrow-airport-staff>

That doesn't say that there was ever a discount on TfL Rail for airport
workers.

It was reported in March 2018 that TfL were negotiating with HAL to
continue the discount, which was apparently funded by GWR (so from one
point of view should have been transferred to TfL as part of the
package).

Do we have any information about the outcome? Minutes of Mayoral
meetings perhaps.

The report above says "Discounts on the Heathrow travel card scheme, and
rail discounts, will also be slashed" and a 'Travelcard scheme' sounds
very much like the discounted season tickets that were available on
Heathrow Connect. Were travelcards valid on HEx, because to lose out by
tinkering with the financing last year, they would have to be.

And yet it would appear the HEx staff discounts *haven't* been slashed,
so once again the only ones which would be, are on the old Connect line.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
The Tube is much cheaper, as it doesn't have to use HAL's
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I
don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially,
retaining the Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping
the Elizabeth Line trips within the scope of daily capping, so
the only people it will affect are the un-capped - ie mainly
tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

But just HEx, not whatever TfL rail calls that line this week.

TfL Rail has been the name for the last four years.

Connect, TfL Rail, Crossrail [it's a name even if not painted on the
signs] and EL [when will the signs have the masking tape - another
figure of speech - ripped off?]

I'm assuming the rebranding will start over the May 21/22 weekend.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
So that's 75% off £37, which is £9.25; and obviously not in a TfL
daily/weekly cap. So unless you don't want to have any onward travel
from Paddington, it's a poor buy.

Agreed. Of course, it's a much worse buy for ordinary punters who have to
pay full price.

It's always been priced to be sufficiently cheaper than a taxi, while
still reaching its target loading. And has succeeded in that. If you
weren't ever even considering using a taxi, it's not the train for you.

Yes, but HEx now has to compete with a much cheaper, equally frequent
service (unlike HC) that serves far more destinations and isn't much slower
(unlike the Tube). Also, once the EL runs through services, it'll be the
quicker, more frequent and far more convenient way of getting to any of the
many destinations on its route other than Paddington itself. So, unless
your destination is a building very close to Paddington station, the EL
will nearly always be the quicker, more convenient, and far cheaper option.
That wasn't the case when HC was in operation.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
Nor of course does it offer much for workers living in the catchment
areas of intermediate stations (which was the whole point of Heathrow
Connect, originally).

Yes

It's pretty much reduced to being figleaf, although some direct HAL
employees living in Z2 near Paddington might benefit. As it's HAL's
train, it's really just a perk for employees, like priv tickets on
National Rail (which I presume office staff used to get too).

Yes

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount.

It's disappeared, but I'm not sure I agree on the date. There's stuff
online that says it disappeared in 2021 as a result of post-Covid belt
tightening.
<https://www.gmblondon.org.uk/news/save-free-and-discounted-travel-for-
heathrow-airport-staff>

That doesn't say that there was ever a discount on TfL Rail for airport
workers.

It was reported in March 2018 that TfL were negotiating with HAL to
continue the discount, which was apparently funded by GWR (so from one
point of view should have been transferred to TfL as part of the
package).
Do we have any information about the outcome? Minutes of Mayoral
meetings perhaps.
The report above says "Discounts on the Heathrow travel card scheme, and
rail discounts, will also be slashed" and a 'Travelcard scheme' sounds
very much like the discounted season tickets that were available on
Heathrow Connect. Were travelcards valid on HEx, because to lose out by
tinkering with the financing last year, they would have to be.
And yet it would appear the HEx staff discounts *haven't* been slashed,
so once again the only ones which would be, are on the old Connect line.

From
<https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-tfl-rail-fares-20-may-2018>

All employees based at Heathrow Airport, whether employed by Heathrow
Airport Limited (HAL) or another company, are entitled to a 75 per cent
discount on season tickets and single fares to Heathrow using the current
Heathrow Connect service. The 75 per cent discount extends to Reading and
Paddington. In general, these discount fares are substantially below
standard TfL fares.

The discounts are currently provided by Connect/GWR on a goodwill basis.
HAL does not fund the discounts directly. TfL is not obliged to offer
equivalent concessions but is agreeing a new, funded concession arrangement
with HAL which will enable all employee concessions to be maintained.

————

So it looks like the 75% discount probably did continue in 2018, directly
funded by HAL.

Of course, airport staff would have benefited from the cap, so even without
the HAL discount, may not have suffered much of a fare rise when the
subsidy was subsequently withdrawn. TfL Rail also offers a more frequent
service than HCon did, making it more useful.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

...

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
So that's 75% off £37, which is £9.25; and obviously not in a TfL
daily/weekly cap. So unless you don't want to have any onward travel
from Paddington, it's a poor buy.

Agreed. Of course, it's a much worse buy for ordinary punters who have to
pay full price.

It's always been priced to be sufficiently cheaper than a taxi, while
still reaching its target loading. And has succeeded in that. If you
weren't ever even considering using a taxi, it's not the train for you.

Yes, but HEx now has to compete with a much cheaper, equally frequent
service (unlike HC) that serves far more destinations and isn't much slower
(unlike the Tube). Also, once the EL runs through services, it'll be the
quicker, more frequent and far more convenient way of getting to any of the
many destinations on its route other than Paddington itself. So, unless
your destination is a building very close to Paddington station, the EL
will nearly always be the quicker, more convenient, and far cheaper option.
That wasn't the case when HC was in operation.

But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.

Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

...

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount.

It's disappeared, but I'm not sure I agree on the date. There's stuff
online that says it disappeared in 2021 as a result of post-Covid belt
tightening.
<https://www.gmblondon.org.uk/news/save-free-and-discounted-travel-for-
heathrow-airport-staff>

That doesn't say that there was ever a discount on TfL Rail for airport
workers.

It was reported in March 2018 that TfL were negotiating with HAL to
continue the discount, which was apparently funded by GWR (so from one
point of view should have been transferred to TfL as part of the
package).
Do we have any information about the outcome? Minutes of Mayoral
meetings perhaps.
The report above says "Discounts on the Heathrow travel card scheme, and
rail discounts, will also be slashed" and a 'Travelcard scheme' sounds
very much like the discounted season tickets that were available on
Heathrow Connect. Were travelcards valid on HEx, because to lose out by
tinkering with the financing last year, they would have to be.
And yet it would appear the HEx staff discounts *haven't* been slashed,
so once again the only ones which would be, are on the old Connect line.

From
<https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-tfl-rail-fares-20-may-2018>
All employees based at Heathrow Airport, whether employed by Heathrow
Airport Limited (HAL) or another company, are entitled to a 75 per cent
discount on season tickets and single fares to Heathrow using the current
Heathrow Connect service. The 75 per cent discount extends to Reading and
Paddington. In general, these discount fares are substantially below
standard TfL fares.
The discounts are currently provided by Connect/GWR on a goodwill basis.
HAL does not fund the discounts directly. TfL is not obliged to offer
equivalent concessions but is agreeing a new, funded concession arrangement
with HAL which will enable all employee concessions to be maintained.
---
So it looks like the 75% discount probably did continue in 2018, directly
funded by HAL.

That report is a couple of months after the one I found which said they
were entering negotiations, so looks like it was successful.

Post by Recliner
Of course, airport staff would have benefited from the cap, so even without
the HAL discount, may not have suffered much of a fare rise when the
subsidy was subsequently withdrawn. TfL Rail also offers a more frequent
service than HCon did, making it more useful.

I don't think they'd have got the discount within the regular cap. The
impression I got was it was a subsidised stand-alone season ticket.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

...

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
So that's 75% off £37, which is £9.25; and obviously not in a TfL
daily/weekly cap. So unless you don't want to have any onward travel
from Paddington, it's a poor buy.

Agreed. Of course, it's a much worse buy for ordinary punters who have to
pay full price.

It's always been priced to be sufficiently cheaper than a taxi, while
still reaching its target loading. And has succeeded in that. If you
weren't ever even considering using a taxi, it's not the train for you.

Yes, but HEx now has to compete with a much cheaper, equally frequent
service (unlike HC) that serves far more destinations and isn't much slower
(unlike the Tube). Also, once the EL runs through services, it'll be the
quicker, more frequent and far more convenient way of getting to any of the
many destinations on its route other than Paddington itself. So, unless
your destination is a building very close to Paddington station, the EL
will nearly always be the quicker, more convenient, and far cheaper option.
That wasn't the case when HC was in operation.

But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.
Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero
research on transport options to keep HEx going.

Post by Roland Perry
...

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018.
That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discount.

It's disappeared, but I'm not sure I agree on the date. There's stuff
online that says it disappeared in 2021 as a result of post-Covid belt
tightening.
<https://www.gmblondon.org.uk/news/save-free-and-discounted-travel-for-
heathrow-airport-staff>

That doesn't say that there was ever a discount on TfL Rail for airport
workers.

It was reported in March 2018 that TfL were negotiating with HAL to
continue the discount, which was apparently funded by GWR (so from one
point of view should have been transferred to TfL as part of the
package).
Do we have any information about the outcome? Minutes of Mayoral
meetings perhaps.
The report above says "Discounts on the Heathrow travel card scheme, and
rail discounts, will also be slashed" and a 'Travelcard scheme' sounds
very much like the discounted season tickets that were available on
Heathrow Connect. Were travelcards valid on HEx, because to lose out by
tinkering with the financing last year, they would have to be.
And yet it would appear the HEx staff discounts *haven't* been slashed,
so once again the only ones which would be, are on the old Connect line.

From
<https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-tfl-rail-fares-20-may-2018>
All employees based at Heathrow Airport, whether employed by Heathrow
Airport Limited (HAL) or another company, are entitled to a 75 per cent
discount on season tickets and single fares to Heathrow using the current
Heathrow Connect service. The 75 per cent discount extends to Reading and
Paddington. In general, these discount fares are substantially below
standard TfL fares.
The discounts are currently provided by Connect/GWR on a goodwill basis.
HAL does not fund the discounts directly. TfL is not obliged to offer
equivalent concessions but is agreeing a new, funded concession arrangement
with HAL which will enable all employee concessions to be maintained.
---
So it looks like the 75% discount probably did continue in 2018, directly
funded by HAL.

That report is a couple of months after the one I found which said they
were entering negotiations, so looks like it was successful.

Post by Recliner
Of course, airport staff would have benefited from the cap, so even without
the HAL discount, may not have suffered much of a fare rise when the
subsidy was subsequently withdrawn. TfL Rail also offers a more frequent
service than HCon did, making it more useful.

I don't think they'd have got the discount within the regular cap. The
impression I got was it was a subsidised stand-alone season ticket.

Yes, probably.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.
Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero
research on transport options to keep HEx going.

We'll see. And not gullible, just wanting the easiest/safest way to get
the next 20 miles having spend thousands on the airfare.

(Many of course will be business travellers, but admittedly those are in
shorter supply than before).

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.
Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero
research on transport options to keep HEx going.

We'll see. And not gullible, just wanting the easiest/safest way to get
the next 20 miles having spend thousands on the airfare.

If they want to go 20 miles into London, the EL will be quicker, easier,
more convenient than HEx.

Post by Roland Perry
(Many of course will be business travellers, but admittedly those are in
shorter supply than before).

Business travellers who use the train rather than a car/taxi will mostly
prefer a line that takes them near where they want to go, quickly and
conveniently, and that will be the EL for most. Few business travellers
need to go to buildings adjacent to Paddington station. They're probably
frequent travellers and will soon learn the best way.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.
Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero
research on transport options to keep HEx going.

We'll see. And not gullible, just wanting the easiest/safest way to get
the next 20 miles having spend thousands on the airfare.

If they want to go 20 miles into London, the EL will be quicker, easier,
more convenient than HEx.

They don't know that, and will generally pick the "Airport Express"
branded train.

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
(Many of course will be business travellers, but admittedly those are in
shorter supply than before).

Business travellers who use the train rather than a car/taxi will mostly
prefer a line that takes them near where they want to go, quickly and
conveniently, and that will be the EL for most. Few business travellers
need to go to buildings adjacent to Paddington station.

I know you simply don't understand the way these travellers' minds work,
but HEx does, and they are the one with a successful business based on
it.

Post by Recliner
They're probably frequent travellers and will soon learn the best way.

On that narrow point, I've travelled to a couple of dozen capital
cities, am reasonably good at research, but for the sake of £20 at the
end of a very long day, arriving somewhere I've never been before, I
won't risk getting lost in the commuter metro system. Most people in
that situation choose a taxi, but HEx has been successful in persuading
people to do at least the first 80% of the trip on their train.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.
Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero
research on transport options to keep HEx going.

We'll see. And not gullible, just wanting the easiest/safest way to get
the next 20 miles having spend thousands on the airfare.

If they want to go 20 miles into London, the EL will be quicker, easier,
more convenient than HEx.

They don't know that, and will generally pick the "Airport Express"
branded train.

You patronisingly assume great ignorance among travellers.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
(Many of course will be business travellers, but admittedly those are in
shorter supply than before).

Business travellers who use the train rather than a car/taxi will mostly
prefer a line that takes them near where they want to go, quickly and
conveniently, and that will be the EL for most. Few business travellers
need to go to buildings adjacent to Paddington station.

I know you simply don't understand the way these travellers' minds work,
but HEx does, and they are the one with a successful business based on
it.

You're being patronising again. I probably did more business travel than
you did, and wasn't constrained by tight budgets like you were.

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
They're probably frequent travellers and will soon learn the best way.

On that narrow point, I've travelled to a couple of dozen capital
cities, am reasonably good at research, but for the sake of £20 at the
end of a very long day, arriving somewhere I've never been before, I
won't risk getting lost in the commuter metro system. Most people in
that situation choose a taxi, but HEx has been successful in persuading
people to do at least the first 80% of the trip on their train.

That was before the EL offered a much better product from the same
platforms.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who
otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city,
few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services.
Other travellers might, but they aren't the ones that HEx is trying to
attract.

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero
research on transport options to keep HEx going.

We'll see. And not gullible, just wanting the easiest/safest way to get
the next 20 miles having spend thousands on the airfare.

If they want to go 20 miles into London, the EL will be quicker, easier,
more convenient than HEx.

They don't know that, and will generally pick the "Airport Express"
branded train.

You patronisingly assume great ignorance among travellers.

I'm pragmatic about it, as are HEx, which is why they have a successful
business.

In any event, the "ignorance" is something resulting from a shortage of
time. Working out how to save a few tens of pounds by delving into the
usually impenetrable information provided for locals about their metro
system simply isn't worth the candle. Especially if you've just stepped
off a flight where the fare was typically £5k.

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry
(Many of course will be business travellers, but admittedly those are in
shorter supply than before).

Business travellers who use the train rather than a car/taxi will mostly
prefer a line that takes them near where they want to go, quickly and
conveniently, and that will be the EL for most. Few business travellers
need to go to buildings adjacent to Paddington station.

I know you simply don't understand the way these travellers' minds work,
but HEx does, and they are the one with a successful business based on
it.

You're being patronising again. I probably did more business travel than
you did,

And on those travels did you ask people around you why they chose a
taxi, versus an airport express train, versus a commuter metro system?

Post by Recliner
and wasn't constrained by tight budgets like you were.

Who is being condescending/patronising now?

So you were one of the people taking taxis everywhere? In which case, I
expect your experience of researching the local commuter metro systems
was limited.

As it happens my clients preferred I took a limo (at their expense) but
this seemed to me an extravagance. Also somewhat disorientating, because
using at least some sort of public transport nails down a few fixed
points in the city. Hence my usual preference for train (not metro) or
an airport-express bus (not a stage bus), etc.

On a second trip (although I never went to Tokyo, Mexico City, Cairo, or
Moscow, twice) maybe nuance it slightly. That's what I did at Seoul and
Hyderabad. Best destination for train travel was Brisbane, where they'll
pay your costs if their rail delays mean you miss your flight. Not even
TfL will do that.

Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to take a
shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one suspects the
local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of construction] and
proceed from there, having used the underground system extensively
between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue in old East-Berlin on
my first visit.

Oslo (just one visit) I took the airport-express train: a quarter the
price of a taxi. At that point I didn't bother finding out what a
commuter metro train would have cost. [Looking just now it seems maybe
half, so a massive £10 saving; no, not worth the candle for one-off trip
arriving at 11pm when you really really don't want to be messing
around].

And of course there are cities where taxis aren't necessarily as safe as
London. The one in Cairo reeked of petrol fumes, and people are often
warned against them in Mexico City. Using any form of public transport
(including taxis) is generally advised against in Moscow, too (one of my
colleagues was mugged on the streets). The taxi in Istanbul tried to
over-charge me (and those I was sharing it with) by rigging the meter.
We paid what we owed and defied him to call the police, which was what
he was threatening to do. Istanbul was one of several destinations where
there were checkpoints outside hotels with people checking under the
vehicles for car-bombs, it's not just a Belfast thing.

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
They're probably frequent travellers and will soon learn the best way.

On that narrow point, I've travelled to a couple of dozen capital
cities, am reasonably good at research, but for the sake of £20 at the
end of a very long day, arriving somewhere I've never been before, I
won't risk getting lost in the commuter metro system. Most people in
that situation choose a taxi, but HEx has been successful in persuading
people to do at least the first 80% of the trip on their train.

That was before the EL offered a much better product from the same
platforms.

The EL is still perceived as a commuter metro system, and that's what
matters.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to take a
shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one suspects the
local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of construction] and
proceed from there, having used the underground system extensively
between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue in old East-Berlin on
my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to take
a shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one suspects
the local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of construction]
and proceed from there, having used the underground system
extensively between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue in old
East-Berlin on my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to
take a shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one
suspects the local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of
construction] and proceed from there, having used the underground
system extensively between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue
in old East-Berlin on my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

Appears to have opened almost exactly 10yrs ago.

I'm checking now to see if the metro ever got finished as far as Prague
Airport. [Nope. Construction to start in earnest in 2023 perhaps. They
were doing a lot of digging when I was last there, in June 2012 - crikey
another ten years that's flown by - with once again a shuttle bus to
bridge the gap]

ObRail: Photo from that trip...

Loading Image...

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to
take a  shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one
suspects the  local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of
construction] and  proceed from there, having used the underground
system extensively  between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue
in old East-Berlin on  my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

Appears to have opened almost exactly 10yrs ago.
I'm checking now to see if the metro ever got finished as far as Prague
Airport. [Nope. Construction to start in earnest in 2023 perhaps. They
were doing a lot of digging when I was last there, in June 2012 - crikey
another ten years that's flown by - with once again a shuttle bus to
bridge the gap]

My trip from Prague airport to hotel, bus to station, metro to town
centre, tram to hotel. Total walking distance, less than 250 metres. You
can walk more than that changing lines on the tube!

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to
take a  shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one
suspects the  local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of
construction] and  proceed from there, having used the underground
system extensively  between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the
venue in old East-Berlin on  my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

Appears to have opened almost exactly 10yrs ago.
I'm checking now to see if the metro ever got finished as far as
Prague Airport. [Nope. Construction to start in earnest in 2023
perhaps. They were doing a lot of digging when I was last there, in
June 2012 - crikey another ten years that's flown by - with once
again a shuttle bus to bridge the gap]

My trip from Prague airport to hotel, bus to station, metro to town
centre, tram to hotel. Total walking distance, less than 250 metres.
You can walk more than that changing lines on the tube!

Yes, but if you are a traveller of the kind who HEx is targeted at,
you'll just get a taxi (or in the case the client who sent me there the
first time, a limo from a fleet organised by the hotel).

Not that it went well on the return leg, because it appears the hotel
forgot to tell the limo driver that they were paying (and later billing
my client) so he wanted payment when we got to the airport. I left the
Czechs to sort it out between themselves, as I didn't have any local
currency left anyway.

The 2012 trip, I attempted to research the fare for the shuttle bus
without success. Was it free (like the Luton Airport one was originally,
and the buses from Geneva Airport to the City centre, but you needed a
voucher) or did you have to pre-pay at the airport (not a simple task if
equipped with only the Czech equivalent of £50 notes[1]). The bus driver
was disinterested, and someone told me later that maybe you had to
volunteer to post-pay with a supplement on the train fare.

But it's these kinds of things which frequent travellers arriving in
strange cities throw their hands up at, and if they see an Airport
Express train they'll know that payment will be easy because the whole
operation has been set up for their convenience.

[1] I still bore the wounds from before the Geneva voucher scheme, and
trying to find a ticket machine at the airport which took cards,
rather than local coins.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry
The 2012 trip, I attempted to research the fare for the shuttle bus
without success. Was it free (like the Luton Airport one was originally,
and the buses from Geneva Airport to the City centre, but you needed a
voucher) or did you have to pre-pay at the airport (not a simple task if
equipped with only the Czech equivalent of £50 notes[1]). The bus driver
was disinterested, and someone told me later that maybe you had to
volunteer to post-pay with a supplement on the train fare.

Having researched it before hand (:-)) we went to the Prague transport
desk at the airport and bought a multi-day pass each for peanuts that
covered us for all three modes of transport[1], paid by credit card.

[1] IIRC it also covered the funicular.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
The 2012 trip, I attempted to research the fare for the shuttle bus
without success. Was it free (like the Luton Airport one was
originally, and the buses from Geneva Airport to the City centre, but
you needed a voucher) or did you have to pre-pay at the airport (not
a simple task if equipped with only the Czech equivalent of £50
notes[1]). The bus driver was disinterested, and someone told me
later that maybe you had to volunteer to post-pay with a supplement
on the train fare.

Having researched it before hand (:-)) we went to the Prague transport
desk at the airport and bought a multi-day pass each for peanuts that
covered us for all three modes of transport[1], paid by credit card.

Maybe that's what people were getting regarding the fare from the
outermost metro station. If you bought such a pass (rather than just a
single) it would retrospectively apply to the shuttle bus.

Post by Graeme Wall
[1] IIRC it also covered the funicular.

According to Wonkypedia: "the metro, tramways, buses, five ferries, the
funicular to Petrín Hill and the chairlift inside Prague Zoo"

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
The 2012 trip, I attempted to research the fare for the shuttle bus
without success. Was it free (like the Luton Airport one was
originally,  and the buses from Geneva Airport to the City centre,
but you needed a  voucher) or did you have to pre-pay at the airport
(not a simple task if  equipped with only the Czech equivalent of £50
notes[1]). The bus driver  was disinterested, and someone told me
later that maybe you had to  volunteer to post-pay with a supplement
on the train fare.

Having researched it before hand (:-)) we went to the Prague transport
desk at the airport and bought a multi-day pass each for peanuts that
covered us for all three modes of transport[1], paid by credit card.

Maybe that's what people were getting regarding the fare from the
outermost metro station. If you bought such a pass (rather than just a
single) it would retrospectively apply to the shuttle bus.

Post by Graeme Wall
[1] IIRC it also covered the funicular.

According to Wonkypedia: "the metro, tramways, buses, five ferries, the
funicular to Petrín Hill and the chairlift inside Prague Zoo"

Missed out on the chairlift, never visited the zoo :-)

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to take
a  shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one
suspects the  local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of
construction] and  proceed from there, having used the underground
system extensively  between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue
in old East-Berlin on  my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

It's a few years since I was there so it's not something new.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Roland Perry
Berlin was a destination that on the second visit I was happy to
take a  shuttle bus to the end of the metro line [like Lisbon, one
suspects the  local taxi lobby had prevented that last-mile of
construction] and  proceed from there, having used the underground
system extensively  between my hotel in old West-Berlin to the venue
in old East-Berlin on  my first visit.

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

It's a few years since I was there so it's not something new.

Like I said earlier, almost exactly ten years. My last visit would have
been in 2009, and my return to the airport was a bus from that fancy
station with a horticultural identity crisis. Quite randomly I'd been
four times in as many years because it must have been a trendy city for
conference organisers.

Another hiccup on the way back, the baggage-handling van clipped the
wing of the aircraft, delaying things for some time while they checked
it out. Must be jinxed, because on one of the outbound flights Gatwick
was in the grip of an all-day power cut, and it was taking three to four
hours for people to get through check-in, security, and their bags to be
loaded.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Peak: £11.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £10.80
At all other times including public holidays.
The Tube is much cheaper, as it doesn't have to use HAL's
Peak: £5.50
Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.
Off Peak: £3.50
At all other times including public holidays.
https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/find-fares/tube-and-rail-fares/single-fare-
finder?intcmp=54716

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be
incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6

Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I
don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially,
retaining the Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping
the Elizabeth Line trips within the scope of daily capping, so
the only people it will affect are the un-capped - ie mainly
tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a day.
"At present, a single journey on the TfL Rail services between
Paddington mainline station and Heathrow Terminal 5 rail station - a
route which will eventually be incorporated into the Elizabeth line
in 2023 - costs £11.10 at peak times and £10.40 off peak.
By comparison, using the Tube from Paddington to reach the airport
via the Piccadilly line costs £5.30 at peak times and £3.30 off-
peak.
But TfL confirmed today that its fare-capping system would include
the Elizabeth line - meaning that Heathrow passengers would pay no
more than £13.50 at current rates for all journeys made the same
day.
And separately, the cap has now been raised to £14.10

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the
premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport
will be saved by the cap.

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on
Heathrow Connect.
Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates
back to 2013)
However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of HAL
almost going broke during Covid. So now they'll just have to rely upon
regular season ticket pricing.

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and
<https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/pu
blic-transport>

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small
number.

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees
get free travel on HEx.

But just HEx, not whatever TfL rail calls that line this week.

TfL Rail has been the name for the last four years.

Connect, TfL Rail, Crossrail [it's a name even if not painted on the
signs] and EL [when will the signs have the masking tape - another
figure of speech - ripped off?]

On my way home by road from Heathrow today I passed Hayes & Harlington
station and was surprised to see that the purple bulls-eyes already said
Elizabeth Line. I didn't think it would have happened so early.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner
On my way home by road from Heathrow today I passed Hayes & Harlington
station and was surprised to see that the purple bulls-eyes already said
Elizabeth Line. I didn't think it would have happened so early.

I'm wondering if the date set for that was the timetable change (see my
earlier posting about 'Farringdon - Elizabeth Line' appearing in an
OJP).

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
On my way home by road from Heathrow today I passed Hayes & Harlington
station and was surprised to see that the purple bulls-eyes already said
Elizabeth Line. I didn't think it would have happened so early.

I'm wondering if the date set for that was the timetable change (see my
earlier posting about 'Farringdon - Elizabeth Line' appearing in an
OJP).

I wouldn't have thought so. My guess is that it's expected to take quite a
few days to fit or uncover all the Elizabeth Line signs, and they aim to
complete the task by next Tuesday, which means starting early.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
On my way home by road from Heathrow today I passed Hayes & Harlington
station and was surprised to see that the purple bulls-eyes already said
Elizabeth Line. I didn't think it would have happened so early.

I'm wondering if the date set for that was the timetable change (see my
earlier posting about 'Farringdon - Elizabeth Line' appearing in an
OJP).

I wouldn't have thought so. My guess is that it's expected to take quite a
few days to fit or uncover all the Elizabeth Line signs, and they aim to
complete the task by next Tuesday, which means starting early.

If they've not managed to fit them all, after years of delay, then
there's no hope!

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
On my way home by road from Heathrow today I passed Hayes & Harlington
station and was surprised to see that the purple bulls-eyes already said
Elizabeth Line. I didn't think it would have happened so early.

I'm wondering if the date set for that was the timetable change (see my
earlier posting about 'Farringdon - Elizabeth Line' appearing in an
OJP).

I wouldn't have thought so. My guess is that it's expected to take quite a
few days to fit or uncover all the Elizabeth Line signs, and they aim to
complete the task by next Tuesday, which means starting early.

If they've not managed to fit them all, after years of delay, then
there's no hope!

The TfL Rail signs looked permanent, as do the new Elizabeth Line signs. So
it's not just a case of pulling off a sticker.

[M***@dastardlyhq.com]

On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:15:08 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.

I suppose at least for their ripoff fare people going to central london will
end up somewhere useful now instead of being turfed out at Paddington and
having to walk to the tube or bus for onward transport. Though frankly for
not far off a quid a mile I'd want first class seats with trolley service.

[Roland Perry]

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:15:08 +0100

Post by Roland Perry

Post by M***@dastardlyhq.com
Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember
them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

" 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the
Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar
journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge to deliver
truly world-class transport infrastructure which is also accessible
and affordable for all Londoners."
So at some point they've walked that back (essentially, retaining the
Heathrow Connect pricing), but they are keeping the Elizabeth Line trips
within the scope of daily capping, so the only people it will affect are
the un-capped - ie mainly tourists etc doing a sole one-way trip in a
day.

I suppose at least for their ripoff fare people going to central london will
end up somewhere useful now instead of being turfed out at Paddington and
having to walk to the tube or bus for onward transport. Though frankly for
not far off a quid a mile I'd want first class seats with trolley service.

For £3 a mile in a taxi (which is what the airport trains replace) do
you get either of those?

ps. It's 20 miles and £10, so maybe your calculator needs new batteries.

[Recliner]

Why did HM wear yellow, not purple?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner
Why did HM wear yellow, not purple?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

"Dressed in a Circle line yellow," Maybe she didn't get the memo about
the purple?

[Mark Bestley]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Why did HM wear yellow, not purple?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

"Dressed in a Circle line yellow," Maybe she didn't get the memo about
the purple?

Other papers https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/does-queen-support-ukraine-dress-b2080858.html
noted that apart from the yellow dress the other colour she wore was blue.

[Recliner]

Post by Mark Bestley

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Why did HM wear yellow, not purple?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

"Dressed in a Circle line yellow," Maybe she didn't get the memo about
the purple?

Other papers https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/does-queen-support-ukraine-dress-b2080858.html
noted that apart from the yellow dress the other colour she wore was blue.

Ah, I'd not seen that.

[Mark Bestley]

Post by Recliner

Post by Mark Bestley

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Why did HM wear yellow, not purple?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

"Dressed in a Circle line yellow," Maybe she didn't get the memo about
the purple?

Other papers
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/does-queen-support-ukraine-dress-b2080858.html
noted that apart from the yellow dress the other colour she wore was blue.

Ah, I'd not seen that.

And boringly there is a fashion reason for the yellow dress. from the Telegraph.

"In fact, the colour was deliberately selected because it is the exact opposite to purple on a colour wheel and therefore its complementary colour pairing. Yet more proof that Her Majesty’s dresser, Angela Kelly, thinks of everything. "

[Recliner]

Post by Mark Bestley

Post by Recliner

Post by Mark Bestley

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Why did HM wear yellow, not purple?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

"Dressed in a Circle line yellow," Maybe she didn't get the memo about
the purple?

Other papers
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/does-queen-support-ukraine-dress-b2080858.html
noted that apart from the yellow dress the other colour she wore was blue.

Ah, I'd not seen that.

And boringly there is a fashion reason for the yellow dress. from the Telegraph.
"In fact, the colour was deliberately selected because it is the exact
opposite to purple on a colour wheel and therefore its complementary
colour pairing. Yet more proof that Her Majesty’s dresser, Angela Kelly,
thinks of everything. "

Thanks, found it in the Peterborough column, which I don't normally read.

<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/20/kenneth-branagh-gets-part-lifetime/>