Discussion:
Most at risk
(too old to reply)
Roland Perry
2020-05-11 10:28:35 UTC
Permalink
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2020-05-11 13:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
and to solve anther conundrum

it also says that medics have the same likelihood of the disease as normal
people, even after taking account of age profiles

But care workers are worse

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-social-care-death-rate-ons-covid-19-a9508091.html

tim
Roland Perry
2020-05-11 14:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
and to solve anther conundrum
it also says that medics have the same likelihood of the disease as
normal people, even after taking account of age profiles
That statistic has been circulating for a couple of weeks now.
Whatever the genetic reasons turn out to be (maybe they'll publish
it one day), and every death is a tragedy, the early news did tend
to concentrate on demised older BAME NHS workers.
Post by tim...
But care workers are worse
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-social-care-dea
th-rate-ons-covid-19-a9508091.html
Maybe they are more likely to be encountering infected patients
(although the NHS has scaled back a lot, they are still treating lots of
younger people - for other ailments, and who have probably been self
isolating themselves previously - and who aren't infected).
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2020-05-11 19:57:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
and to solve anther conundrum
it also says that medics have the same likelihood of the disease as normal
people, even after taking account of age profiles
That statistic has been circulating for a couple of weeks now.
but without the age correlation
Post by Roland Perry
Whatever the genetic reasons turn out to be (maybe they'll publish
it one day), and every death is a tragedy, the early news did tend
to concentrate on demised older BAME NHS workers.
Post by tim...
But care workers are worse
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-social-care-dea
th-rate-ons-covid-19-a9508091.html
Maybe they are more likely to be encountering infected patients
without sufficient PPE probably being the salient point

tim
Roland Perry
2020-05-12 10:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
and to solve anther conundrum
it also says that medics have the same likelihood of the disease as
normal people, even after taking account of age profiles
That statistic has been circulating for a couple of weeks now.
but without the age correlation
No, with the age correlation.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-05-12 10:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
and to solve anther conundrum
it also says that medics have the same likelihood of the disease as
normal people, even after taking account of age profiles
That statistic has been circulating for a couple of weeks now.
but without the age correlation
No, with the age correlation.
Yes, indeed. Allowing for all the demographic adjustments, NHS staff as a
whole are not succumbing at an unduly high rate, though care home staff
are. What I've not seen analysed is how ICU and other front-line NHS staff
in Covid-19 wards are faring.
Recliner
2020-05-11 15:25:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
I'm not surprised by the care workers, because they're less likely to have
good PPE, more likely to be on zero hours contracts (and therefore less
likely to be tested or hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course,
much more likely to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most
NHS staff.

But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk occupation.
Roland Perry
2020-05-11 15:56:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
I'm not surprised by the care workers, because they're less likely to have
good PPE, more likely to be on zero hours contracts (and therefore less
likely to be tested or hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course,
much more likely to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most
NHS staff.
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk occupation.
That's just because of being in contact with lots of different people I
think. When I went shopping last week it occurred to me that the chap I
most needed to avoid was the one at the door enforcing the "one out, one
in" policy". He wasn't social distancing, and had said exchanged a few
words with every entering and departing customer.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2020-05-11 16:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
I'm not surprised by the care workers, because they're less likely to have
good PPE, more likely to be on zero hours contracts (and therefore less
likely to be tested or hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course,
much more likely to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most
NHS staff.
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk occupation.
That's just because of being in contact with lots of different people I
think. When I went shopping last week it occurred to me that the chap I
most needed to avoid was the one at the door enforcing the "one out, one
in" policy". He wasn't social distancing, and had said exchanged a few
words with every entering and departing customer.
Yes, that's probably it. At Waitrose, I've seen security staff wearing
gloves, masks and face shields, which seems wise. Other supermarkets' staff
seem to be less well protected.
Roland Perry
2020-05-11 16:24:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
I'm not surprised by the care workers, because they're less likely to have
good PPE, more likely to be on zero hours contracts (and therefore less
likely to be tested or hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course,
much more likely to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most
NHS staff.
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk occupation.
That's just because of being in contact with lots of different people I
think. When I went shopping last week it occurred to me that the chap I
most needed to avoid was the one at the door enforcing the "one out, one
in" policy". He wasn't social distancing, and had said exchanged a few
words with every entering and departing customer.
Yes, that's probably it. At Waitrose, I've seen security staff wearing
gloves, masks and face shields, which seems wise. Other supermarkets' staff
seem to be less well protected.
And yet Screwfix security staff on day 1 of the lockdown were keeping
their distance from the (click and collect only) queue they were
policing.
--
Roland Perry
"David Jones" <dajhawk18@@googlemail.com>
2020-05-11 19:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and
- >>>
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
11986382> >> >> I'm not surprised by the care workers, because
they're less likely to have >> good PPE, more likely to be on zero
hours contracts (and therefore less >> likely to be tested or
hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course, >> much more likely
to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most >> NHS staff.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk
occupation.
Post by Roland Perry
That's just because of being in contact with lots of different
people I think. When I went shopping last week it occurred to me
that the chap I most needed to avoid was the one at the door
enforcing the "one out, one in" policy". He wasn't social
distancing, and had said exchanged a few words with every entering
and departing customer.
Yes, that's probably it. At Waitrose, I've seen security staff wearing
gloves, masks and face shields, which seems wise. Other supermarkets'
staff seem to be less well protected.
But certainly not every Waitrose ... no gloves, masks or face shields
at Waitrose near me.
Recliner
2020-05-12 13:08:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 11 May 2020 19:05:21 +0000 (UTC), "David Jones"
Post by "David Jones" <dajhawk18@@googlemail.com>
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and
- >>>
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
11986382> >> >> I'm not surprised by the care workers, because
they're less likely to have >> good PPE, more likely to be on zero
hours contracts (and therefore less >> likely to be tested or
hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course, >> much more likely
to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most >> NHS staff.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk
occupation.
Post by Roland Perry
That's just because of being in contact with lots of different
people I think. When I went shopping last week it occurred to me
that the chap I most needed to avoid was the one at the door
enforcing the "one out, one in" policy". He wasn't social
distancing, and had said exchanged a few words with every entering
and departing customer.
Yes, that's probably it. At Waitrose, I've seen security staff wearing
gloves, masks and face shields, which seems wise. Other supermarkets'
staff seem to be less well protected.
But certainly not every Waitrose ... no gloves, masks or face shields
at Waitrose near me.
I think it's optional: some staff choose to wear it, some don't. But
I'd expect all Waitrose branches to be supplied with them.

Someone Somewhere
2020-05-11 17:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
I'm not surprised by the care workers, because they're less likely to have
good PPE, more likely to be on zero hours contracts (and therefore less
likely to be tested or hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course,
much more likely to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most
NHS staff.
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk occupation.
I'd have thought the vast majority (maybe 90%) of NHS staff would not be
working day in, day out with covid-19 patients (why? well, at the peak
there were something like 20,000 in hospital at once - a 1:1 staff ratio
giving 24/7 coverage would mean something like 100,000 staff on the
basis of a 35 hour week. That wouldn't mean 1 person looking after 1
patient, more 0.5 nurses, 0.1 consultants, 0.1 porters and so on. The
NHS has 1.3M employees or something). Therefore any variance of death
rate could be lost in the statistical noise.

If a care home has a covid-19 case, then there's every chance (care home
residents tend to wander a lot more around the entire home, and most
covid-19 patients in hospital tend to turn up once symptomatic vs care
home residents who will be there when asymptomatic and therefore people
don't know they need to take infection control precautions) a decent
proportion of the staff could be exposed, and given 30% or something of
care homes have cases then that's far more likely to lead to
statistically relevant differences.
Recliner
2020-05-11 20:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
<https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-male-security-guards-chefs-and-
taxi-drivers-among-those-most-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-says-ons-
11986382>
I'm not surprised by the care workers, because they're less likely to have
good PPE, more likely to be on zero hours contracts (and therefore less
likely to be tested or hospitalised if they feel unwell) and, of course,
much more likely to be in contact with virus-infected patients than most
NHS staff.
But I hadn't thought of security guards being in a high risk occupation.
I'd have thought the vast majority (maybe 90%) of NHS staff would not be
working day in, day out with covid-19 patients (why? well, at the peak
there were something like 20,000 in hospital at once - a 1:1 staff ratio
giving 24/7 coverage would mean something like 100,000 staff on the
basis of a 35 hour week. That wouldn't mean 1 person looking after 1
patient, more 0.5 nurses, 0.1 consultants, 0.1 porters and so on. The
NHS has 1.3M employees or something). Therefore any variance of death
rate could be lost in the statistical noise.
Yes, that's a very good point, which helps explain the gap between the
higher reported death rates of front-line NHS staff and the overall NHS
staff death rate.
Post by Someone Somewhere
If a care home has a covid-19 case, then there's every chance (care home
residents tend to wander a lot more around the entire home, and most
covid-19 patients in hospital tend to turn up once symptomatic vs care
home residents who will be there when asymptomatic and therefore people
don't know they need to take infection control precautions) a decent
proportion of the staff could be exposed, and given 30% or something of
care homes have cases then that's far more likely to lead to
statistically relevant differences.
Yes, and furthermore, care homes employ many agency staff, who routinely
work in more than one home and therefore are at even more risk of ecposure.
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