Discussion:
New London & The South East (London Connection) map
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Basil Jet
2017-05-26 12:36:20 UTC
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The cover is lilac.

The only differences I've spotted are obeli added to various Waterloo
served stations, and Cambridge North. There is no indication that there
are hardly any trains serving both Cambridge North and Waterbeach, which
somewhat defeats the point of a map at all.

I just noticed that the Thames is on the wrong place on the front cover,
showing a swathe of London south of the Thames from Hampton Court to
Staines... presumably it's been like that for years? Also, the map used
to go to Exeter, but it now cuts off at Yeovil. A quick rummage tells me
that the change was some time after 2006. I wonder why. The 2006 map
seems clearer on both sides, even if its insistence on showing the
Cotswold line all the way to Hereford but cutting off the GWML before
Swindon years after NSE ceased to exist seemed a little brain-damaged.

I'm wondering why there seems to be no similar map for any other part of
the country. Is ATOC or whatever it's called now legally obliged to make
such a map for (most of) the former Network SouthEast area, but legally
allowed to ignore the provinces? The only other half decent map I've
found is the one GWR produce of their territory, with an overview of
Britain on the back.
NY
2017-05-26 12:40:01 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
I just noticed that the Thames is on the wrong place on the front cover,
showing a swathe of London south of the Thames from Hampton Court to
Staines... presumably it's been like that for years?
Sounds similar to the howler that was perpetrated in the notorious Wignall
railway map of the early 80s where a large-scale double-page spread of
London has the Thames in the wrong place on one map, so various lines and
stations (between London Bridge and Greenwich IIRC) are in the middle of the
Thames.
Roland Perry
2017-05-26 13:23:26 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
The cover is lilac.
The only differences I've spotted are obeli added to various Waterloo
served stations, and Cambridge North. There is no indication that there
are hardly any trains serving both Cambridge North and Waterbeach,
which somewhat defeats the point of a map at all.
Are there any maps which indicate that sort of thing?

In practice, it doesn't matter much, because very few people will want
to take the train from one to the other.
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2017-05-26 14:26:23 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
The cover is lilac.
The only differences I've spotted are obeli added to various Waterloo
served stations, and Cambridge North. There is no indication that there
are hardly any trains serving both Cambridge North and Waterbeach,
which somewhat defeats the point of a map at all.
Are there any maps which indicate that sort of thing?
Something which shows *routes* rather than *lines* - early VWC route maps
for example.

<Loading Image...>


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Roland Perry
2017-05-27 07:27:36 UTC
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Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Basil Jet
The only differences I've spotted are obeli added to various Waterloo
served stations, and Cambridge North. There is no indication that there
are hardly any trains serving both Cambridge North and Waterbeach,
which somewhat defeats the point of a map at all.
Are there any maps which indicate that sort of thing?
Something which shows *routes* rather than *lines* - early VWC route maps
for example.
<http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/Resources/Virgin%20WC%20Dec%2008%20tmbtbl%20map.jpg>
OK, I'll hand you that one.

There are similar maps published by GN - although I note this one
doesn't have Cambridge North - Doh!

<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/Great_Northern_r
oute_map.pdf>
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.co.uk
2017-05-28 00:28:48 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
There are similar maps published by GN - although I note this one
doesn't have Cambridge North - Doh!
<http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/Great_Northern_route_
map.pdf>

Plonkers!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Charles Ellson
2017-05-26 17:55:10 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
The cover is lilac.
Where are they dishing these out ? The only ones I usually see are the
posters in Underground stations and the online versions on the TfL
website.
Post by Basil Jet
The only differences I've spotted are obeli added to various Waterloo
served stations, and Cambridge North. There is no indication that there
are hardly any trains serving both Cambridge North and Waterbeach, which
somewhat defeats the point of a map at all.
Not exactly a "London Connection".
Post by Basil Jet
I just noticed that the Thames is on the wrong place on the front cover,
showing a swathe of London south of the Thames from Hampton Court to
Staines... presumably it's been like that for years? Also, the map used
to go to Exeter, but it now cuts off at Yeovil. A quick rummage tells me
that the change was some time after 2006. I wonder why. The 2006 map
seems clearer on both sides, even if its insistence on showing the
Cotswold line all the way to Hereford but cutting off the GWML before
Swindon years after NSE ceased to exist seemed a little brain-damaged.
I'm wondering why there seems to be no similar map for any other part of
the country.
ISTR there are but possibly only online so you have to do your own
printing and folding.
Post by Basil Jet
Is ATOC or whatever it's called now legally obliged to make
such a map for (most of) the former Network SouthEast area, but legally
allowed to ignore the provinces? The only other half decent map I've
found is the one GWR produce of their territory, with an overview of
Britain on the back.
Like other things, they are to some extent continuing what went on in
BR days. Back then you were into "here be dragons" territory a couple
of yards past the GL boundary and transport information wasn't
promoted in the way that UG/LPTB/LT/etc. had been doing it for years.

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BevanPrice
2017-05-26 19:21:35 UTC
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On Fri, 26 May 2017 13:36:20 +0100, Basil Jet
Post by Basil Jet
The cover is lilac.
Where are they dishing these out ? The only ones I usually see are
the posters in Underground stations and the online versions on the
TfL website.
Post by Basil Jet
The only differences I've spotted are obeli added to various
Waterloo served stations, and Cambridge North. There is no
indication that there are hardly any trains serving both Cambridge
North and Waterbeach, which somewhat defeats the point of a map at
all.
Not exactly a "London Connection".
Post by Basil Jet
I just noticed that the Thames is on the wrong place on the front
cover, showing a swathe of London south of the Thames from Hampton
Court to Staines... presumably it's been like that for years? Also,
the map used to go to Exeter, but it now cuts off at Yeovil. A
quick rummage tells me that the change was some time after 2006. I
wonder why. The 2006 map seems clearer on both sides, even if its
insistence on showing the Cotswold line all the way to Hereford but
cutting off the GWML before Swindon years after NSE ceased to exist
seemed a little brain-damaged.
I'm wondering why there seems to be no similar map for any other
part of the country.
ISTR there are but possibly only online so you have to do your own
printing and folding.
Post by Basil Jet
Is ATOC or whatever it's called now legally obliged to make such a
map for (most of) the former Network SouthEast area, but legally
allowed to ignore the provinces? The only other half decent map
I've found is the one GWR produce of their territory, with an
overview of Britain on the back.
Like other things, they are to some extent continuing what went on
in BR days. Back then you were into "here be dragons" territory a
couple of yards past the GL boundary and transport information
wasn't promoted in the way that UG/LPTB/LT/etc. had been doing it for
years.
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Several areas run by PTA/PTEs (or whatever they are called this week)
produce combined rail/bus maps for their areas. The (now discontinued)
West Yorkshire combined rail timetable included a diagrammatic map of
their own + adjacent areas.

"Northern" do a network map - but only in the format of station posters
as far as I know.

I saw copies of the "London" map available at Birmingham Moor St. last
weekend.
Basil Jet
2017-05-26 19:30:15 UTC
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Post by BevanPrice
I saw copies of the "London" map available at Birmingham Moor St. last
weekend.
I picked it up at a suburban NR station. You are unlikely to get it at a
TfL managed station. St Pancras Thameslink is usually a good bet.

I think I saw some in Newcastle last year as well, bizarrely, but
nothing for the Newcastle area.
Charles Ellson
2017-05-26 19:42:42 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by BevanPrice
I saw copies of the "London" map available at Birmingham Moor St. last
weekend.
I picked it up at a suburban NR station. You are unlikely to get it at a
TfL managed station. St Pancras Thameslink is usually a good bet.
Not seen recently at various SE/LO stations.
I might be passing through STP next week so I'll try to keep a look
out. The locations suggested a concentration on long-distance
passengers while IME many people in London don't seem to know about
anything not on the Underground map; they can be somewhat joyful when
they find that an hour-long journey in and out of London can be
replaced by a five minute NR journey.
Post by Basil Jet
I think I saw some in Newcastle last year as well, bizarrely, but
nothing for the Newcastle area.
Possibly "won't fit our racks" for TfL who usually only seem to have a
rack for Underground maps or anything that size.

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