Discussion:
Are any of the new Crossrail platforms curved?
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Basil Jet
2017-06-28 01:36:36 UTC
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TCR looks curved to me.


Recliner
2017-06-28 11:35:51 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
No, they're straight:

<Loading Image...>

<Loading Image...>
Roland Perry
2017-06-28 12:05:12 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tott
enham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
That shows a distinct bend.
Post by Recliner
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/22
2c-tcsup-002-full.png>
And that doesn't show them at all.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2017-06-28 12:40:32 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tott
enham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
That shows a distinct bend.
No more than a very slight curve in the platforms themselves. The
curves are in the tunnels outside the station.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-06-28 13:54:28 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tottenham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/222c-tcsup-002-full.png>
I thought that the platforms would be straight as, IIRC, current
legislation stipulates only straight platforms.

Plus, it's a given that HSE would probably have conniptions if they saw
a curved platform. So, even if it is legally possible to build a curved
platform, it would not surprise me if the engineers and designers
decided simply to build it straight in order to avoid any
"complications."
Recliner
2017-06-28 14:19:51 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tottenham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/222c-tcsup-002-full.png>
I thought that the platforms would be straight as, IIRC, current
legislation stipulates only straight platforms.
Plus, it's a given that HSE would probably have conniptions if they saw
a curved platform. So, even if it is legally possible to build a curved
platform, it would not surprise me if the engineers and designers
decided simply to build it straight in order to avoid any
"complications."
They obviously don't have to be ruler straight, but I assume there are
rules for what (large) radius is allowed. You certainly wouldn't be
allowed to build anything like the Central Line Bank platforms today.
Basil Jet
2017-06-28 14:45:31 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tottenham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/222c-tcsup-002-full.png>
I thought that the platforms would be straight as, IIRC, current
legislation stipulates only straight platforms.
Plus, it's a given that HSE would probably have conniptions if they saw
a curved platform. So, even if it is legally possible to build a curved
platform, it would not surprise me if the engineers and designers
decided simply to build it straight in order to avoid any
"complications."
They obviously don't have to be ruler straight, but I assume there are
rules for what (large) radius is allowed. You certainly wouldn't be
allowed to build anything like the Central Line Bank platforms today.
I don't think the rules have changed since Canada Water East London Line
platforms were built, and IIRC that is on a fair slope, so the rules can
be broken if TPTB feel like it.
Recliner
2017-06-28 15:41:57 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tottenham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/222c-tcsup-002-full.png>
I thought that the platforms would be straight as, IIRC, current
legislation stipulates only straight platforms.
Plus, it's a given that HSE would probably have conniptions if they saw
a curved platform. So, even if it is legally possible to build a curved
platform, it would not surprise me if the engineers and designers
decided simply to build it straight in order to avoid any
"complications."
They obviously don't have to be ruler straight, but I assume there are
rules for what (large) radius is allowed. You certainly wouldn't be
allowed to build anything like the Central Line Bank platforms today.
I don't think the rules have changed since Canada Water East London Line
platforms were built, and IIRC that is on a fair slope, so the rules can
be broken if TPTB feel like it.
Yes, I suppose they just have to seek a derogation, which is more likely to
be granted when adding things to an old line than when building an all-new
one.
Basil Jet
2017-06-28 16:08:47 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tottenham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/222c-tcsup-002-full.png>
I thought that the platforms would be straight as, IIRC, current
legislation stipulates only straight platforms.
Plus, it's a given that HSE would probably have conniptions if they saw
a curved platform. So, even if it is legally possible to build a curved
platform, it would not surprise me if the engineers and designers
decided simply to build it straight in order to avoid any
"complications."
They obviously don't have to be ruler straight, but I assume there are
rules for what (large) radius is allowed. You certainly wouldn't be
allowed to build anything like the Central Line Bank platforms today.
I don't think the rules have changed since Canada Water East London Line
platforms were built, and IIRC that is on a fair slope, so the rules can
be broken if TPTB feel like it.
Yes, I suppose they just have to seek a derogation, which is more likely to
be granted when adding things to an old line than when building an all-new
one.
... although a new line weaved between the deep pile foundations of
London might be subject to more expensive geometrical constraints than a
new platform on an old line! Remember that Crossrail 2 was going to have
a station at Piccadilly Circus when it was tube gauge, but when they
went for mainline gauge there was no room for the platform tunnels.
Steve Lewis
2017-06-28 16:15:05 UTC
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On the Jubilee Line Extension, Canning Town (both platforms) and Stratford (platform 15 only) are slightly curved, while Westminster (both platforms) are curved and have PEDs.
Recliner
2017-06-28 16:32:52 UTC
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Post by Steve Lewis
On the Jubilee Line Extension, Canning Town (both platforms) and
Stratford (platform 15 only) are slightly curved, while Westminster (both
platforms) are curved and have PEDs.
I've never even noticed!
D A Stocks
2017-06-28 21:18:24 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
<http://www.constructionenquirer.com/wp-content/uploads/8-Crossrail-Tottenham-Court-Road-3D-1.jpg>
<http://www.dr-sauer.com/files/drsauer/public/content/file/360/upload/222c-tcsup-002-full.png>
I thought that the platforms would be straight as, IIRC, current
legislation stipulates only straight platforms.
Plus, it's a given that HSE would probably have conniptions if they saw a
curved platform. So, even if it is legally possible to build a curved
platform, it would not surprise me if the engineers and designers decided
simply to build it straight in order to avoid any "complications."
I would imagine the requirement is that it's possible to see the length of
the platform edge, from the platform, and with a train in the station. This
will be fairly easy to achieve if (as at TCR) the curve is not too tight,
the platform is on the inside of the curve, and the platform has enough
width.

I have only visited the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras once, but am I
correct in remembering that there is quite a sharp curve at the southern
end?

--
DAS
o***@hotmail.com
2017-06-29 05:57:04 UTC
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Post by D A Stocks
I have only visited the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras once, but am I
correct in remembering that there is quite a sharp curve at the southern
end?
Yes because that is where they met the existing Kings Cross curves with a radius around 200m.

The RSSB's GI/RT7016 provides the requirements of the track/platform interface.

OC
s***@potato.field
2017-06-29 08:40:02 UTC
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 22:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
Post by o***@hotmail.com
Post by D A Stocks
I have only visited the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras once, but am I
correct in remembering that there is quite a sharp curve at the southern
end?
Yes because that is where they met the existing Kings Cross curves with a radius around 200m.
I've wondered on occasion whether they deliberately sited the new KX thameslink
platforms at such an inconvenient location for interchange to reduce footfall.
I find it surprising that they were unable to lengthen the old platforms given
how they managed to lengthen farringdon (which is now part curve, part hill)
and destroyed the old moorgate line in the process.
--
Spud
Roland Perry
2017-06-29 09:13:00 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
Post by o***@hotmail.com
Post by D A Stocks
I have only visited the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras once, but am I
correct in remembering that there is quite a sharp curve at the southern
end?
Yes because that is where they met the existing Kings Cross curves with a
radius around 200m.
I've wondered on occasion whether they deliberately sited the new KX thameslink
platforms at such an inconvenient location for interchange to reduce footfall.
I find it surprising that they were unable to lengthen the old platforms given
how they managed to lengthen farringdon (which is now part curve, part hill)
and destroyed the old moorgate line in the process.
The problem with the old platforms was narrowness.
--
Roland Perry
David Walters
2017-06-28 12:31:54 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
Looks like the Eastbound is.

Loading Image...
Recliner
2017-06-28 13:12:11 UTC
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:31:54 +0100, David Walters
Post by David Walters
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
Looks like the Eastbound is.
http://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/7C_015-Figure-2-1024x495.jpg
Yes, that does look slightly curved, though not enough to cause
noticeable platform gaps.
Basil Jet
2017-06-28 13:20:22 UTC
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Post by David Walters
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
Looks like the Eastbound is.
http://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/7C_015-Figure-2-1024x495.jpg
I'm sorry, but you have provided conclusive evidence and thus terminated
all debate. You are forbidden from Usenet for one month ;-)
Recliner
2017-07-01 14:44:16 UTC
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:31:54 +0100, David Walters
Post by David Walters
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
Looks like the Eastbound is.
http://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/7C_015-Figure-2-1024x495.jpg
Here's a reminder of what *really* curved platforms look like:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/34840848553/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/>

For anyone unfamiliar with the location, it's the Baker Street
Metropolitan Line through platforms, 1 and 2, looking south. The sharp
curve is because the line joins what is now the Circle line just
beyond the platform end.

Needless to say, this is one place where the 'Mind the Gap' notices
are really needed. The new trains have a floor almost level with the
platform, rather than overhanging it, so the gaps are indeed large
with sharply curved platforms like these.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-07-01 19:00:07 UTC
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Post by Recliner
On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 13:31:54 +0100, David Walters
Post by David Walters
Post by Basil Jet
TCR looks curved to me.
http://youtu.be/9Mw0jCGl_HQ
Looks like the Eastbound is.
http://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/7C_015-Figure-2-1024x495.jpg
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/34840848553/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/>
For anyone unfamiliar with the location, it's the Baker Street
Metropolitan Line through platforms, 1 and 2, looking south. The sharp
curve is because the line joins what is now the Circle line just
beyond the platform end.
Needless to say, this is one place where the 'Mind the Gap' notices
are really needed. The new trains have a floor almost level with the
platform, rather than overhanging it, so the gaps are indeed large
with sharply curved platforms like these.
Have you seen the downtown platform at 14th Street - Union Square on the
Lexington Avenue Line, in New York? They have gap fillers that extend
from the platform.

The inner and outer tracks on the South Ferry Loop were also notable for
their gaps, with the outer one also requiring gap fillers.

The shuttle trains that ran on the inner track had to undergo special
modification so that only each car's middle doors would open in order to
mitigate the gap.

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