Discussion:
The Metropolitan line extension has ceased to be.
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Jarle Hammen Knudsen
2017-03-16 22:21:16 UTC
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http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.no/2017/03/the-metropolitan-line-ex-extension.html
Recliner
2017-03-16 23:16:02 UTC
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Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.no/2017/03/the-metropolitan-line-ex-extension.html
Thanks for the update. I'm still optimistic it'll be built, though I
suppose the odds aren't better than 50:50 right now. But it's clear any
extra funds will have to come from a budget other than TfL's.

But I remain baffled by the extraordinarily high cost of over £300m for a
short overground metro extension that mainly uses an existing alignment,
with two basic new stations.
r***@ntlworld.com
2017-03-17 08:15:41 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.no/2017/03/the-metropolitan-line-ex-extension.html
Thanks for the update. I'm still optimistic it'll be built, though I
suppose the odds aren't better than 50:50 right now. But it's clear any
extra funds will have to come from a budget other than TfL's.
But I remain baffled by the extraordinarily high cost of over £300m for a
short overground metro extension that mainly uses an existing alignment,
with two basic new stations.
Unfortunately, I'm not baffled by the high cost. It has become
the norm with railway projects that they cost far more than seems
reasonable.
David Cantrell
2017-03-20 13:30:55 UTC
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Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Unfortunately, I'm not baffled by the high cost. It has become
the norm with railway projects that they cost far more than seems
reasonable.
It may be the norm, but it's still baffling.

And it's not restricted to railway projects. I don't see how they could
possibly have spent 4.5 million on West Croydon bus station either, for
example.
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David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Vegetarian: n: a person who, due to malnutrition caused by
poor lifestyle choices, is eight times more likely to
catch TB than a normal person
Roland Perry
2017-03-20 14:52:52 UTC
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Post by David Cantrell
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Unfortunately, I'm not baffled by the high cost. It has become
the norm with railway projects that they cost far more than seems
reasonable.
It may be the norm, but it's still baffling.
And it's not restricted to railway projects. I don't see how they could
possibly have spent 4.5 million on West Croydon bus station either, for
example.
The Edinburgh Tram and Parliament buildings are another two outstanding
examples of over-spend.
--
Roland Perry
r***@ntlworld.com
2017-03-20 16:37:21 UTC
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Post by David Cantrell
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Unfortunately, I'm not baffled by the high cost. It has become
the norm with railway projects that they cost far more than seems
reasonable.
It may be the norm, but it's still baffling.
And it's not restricted to railway projects. I don't see how they could
possibly have spent 4.5 million on West Croydon bus station either, for
example.
--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist
Vegetarian: n: a person who, due to malnutrition caused by
poor lifestyle choices, is eight times more likely to
catch TB than a normal person
I'm not baffled. I think I know what's going on, but as the
laws of libel apply to the Internet, I'm not going into details.
I'll just point out that these extraordinarily expensive projects
are financed by the tax payer.
my opinion.
Paul Corfield
2017-03-20 19:46:35 UTC
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Post by David Cantrell
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Unfortunately, I'm not baffled by the high cost. It has become
the norm with railway projects that they cost far more than seems
reasonable.
It may be the norm, but it's still baffling.
And it's not restricted to railway projects. I don't see how they could
possibly have spent 4.5 million on West Croydon bus station either, for
example.
I think West Croydon's cost went skyward because they found tons of concrete and an underground storage tank that had not shown up in preliminary surveys. That delayed the work overall - classic cost escalation issue - plus you had the added costs of removing what was found and then I assume filling in the hole safely and any associated impacts on the design of the new bus station.

TfL seem to have a very bad record with bus stations - they design them badly, insist on poncy hard standing for vehicles which then needs replacement within a few years and generally make them too small or not accessible for bus with centre doors / wheelchair ramps. The "refurb" of East Croydon's tiny "bus station" is also taking forever - presumably because ground conditions have deteriorated badly from years of vehicles pounding the poncy hard standing they installed when it was built. There must be a way to build a bus station that can actually take the strain of repetitive bus movements and standing vehicles in fixed positions. It can't be that hard - someone in the world must have worked it out.
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Paul C
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Neil Williams
2017-03-21 08:33:11 UTC
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Post by Paul Corfield
There must be a way to build a bus station that can actually take the
strain of repetitive bus movements and standing vehicles in fixed
positions. It can't be that hard - someone in the world must have
worked it out.
I'm sure a sufficient thickness of reinforced concrete would work.
Thing is, it may be cheaper to use a cheaper surface and replace
periodically.

Neil
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Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
s***@potato.field
2017-03-21 09:27:21 UTC
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On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
TfL seem to have a very bad record with bus stations - they design them bad=
TfL seem to have a bad record with a lot of things - electrifying the Goblin
for example. No doubt the cost of that is heading ever higher right now.
Who knows, one day it might even be finished.
--
Spud
Recliner
2017-03-21 09:41:50 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
TfL seem to have a very bad record with bus stations - they design them bad=
TfL seem to have a bad record with a lot of things - electrifying the Goblin
for example. No doubt the cost of that is heading ever higher right now.
Who knows, one day it might even be finished.
You seem to be breaking news here. The rest of us thought that NR was
electrifying the GOBLIN, but are you telling us it's actually a TfL
project? Perhaps you have a link to provide additional details?

I seem to have been misled by this piece of 'fake news':
<https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/anglia/gospel-oak-barking-electrification/>
Paul Corfield
2017-03-22 14:53:40 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 12:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
TfL seem to have a very bad record with bus stations - they design them bad=
TfL seem to have a bad record with a lot of things - electrifying the Goblin
for example. No doubt the cost of that is heading ever higher right now.
Who knows, one day it might even be finished.
Well TfL are funding £25m of the cost of the electrification project and are certainly not in charge of it. Why would they "fly off the handle" when they were told about the delays to the work by Network Rail in late January if they were "in charge". They are also buying the new trains and thus far they appear to be on time.

As things stand *today* the GOBLIN electrification is not officially late. Once we get past June and if the wires are not strung and energised then it's late. No statements have been made about the total project cost and whether it is over budget. It may well end up over budget but there's no public domain information about it. We also have no firm idea yet about the extent and timing of further closures or blockades that may be required to finish the works.

NR is extremely lucky that the new trains are not scheduled to arrive for testing and then passenger operation until the Autumn at the earliest (testing) and operation (December time). If the trains had been built and were sitting in a siding then the pressure would be enormous to "do something". However there are equal pressures from Crossrail for a lot of agreed closures and works in and around Stratford to happen on time which is why the GOBLIN had to reopen to allow freight to be diverted. TfL can't jump and down too much because all NR would say is "OK we'll close the GOBLIN and finish the works but you won't be able to run your nice class 345s in May and by the way the whole Crossrail programme may run late". In short there are genuine tensions here between project programmes and GOBLIN electrification will never, ever outgun Crossrail in TfL and Mayoral priorities. Hence why any closures on the GOBLIN will almost certainly be in the mid - late Summer period when people are on the main holidays. There are no fixed public dates for electric trains to run on the GOBLIN so there is less stakeholder and public pressure and therefore a tad more flexibility about when they enter service. Launching new trains and infrastructure in the depths of winter is never ideal anyway.
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Paul C
via Google
Basil Jet
2017-03-17 01:57:56 UTC
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Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.no/2017/03/the-metropolitan-line-ex-extension.html
And yet we've already bought the train to run it! We can never make fun
of Edinburgh again!

I wonder if making the viaduct single track would save enough money to
bring the project back from the dead?
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