Discussion:
Overground stock
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Basil Jet
2017-01-04 15:04:08 UTC
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Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered. At
the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from 3tph
to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so, 15 cars
per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase, especially when
the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly at the expense of
the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more of the current trains
and run 5 cars at 4tph?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-01-05 02:13:55 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered.
At the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from
3tph to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so,
15 cars per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase,
especially when the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly
at the expense of the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more
of the current trains and run 5 cars at 4tph?
Euston-Watford went to 5 cars because the whole 378 fleet did so. Does it
actually need the extra space? And, given that the Crossrail Aventras have
23m long cars, rather than the 20m 378 cars, how long with the new
Overground class 710 cars be?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-01-05 02:41:05 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered.
At the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from
3tph to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so,
15 cars per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase,
especially when the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly
at the expense of the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more
of the current trains and run 5 cars at 4tph?
Euston-Watford went to 5 cars because the whole 378 fleet did so. Does it
actually need the extra space?
Probably not. The Bakerloo trains take the bulk of the load on the shared
section, and north of H&W, the LO isn't very busy.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
And, given that the Crossrail Aventras have
23m long cars, rather than the 20m 378 cars, how long with the new
Overground class 710 cars be?
20m, apparently:

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2015/07/20/first-look-at-the-newest-addition-to-london-overgrounds-fleet/
Charles Ellson
2017-01-05 02:17:44 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered. At
the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from 3tph
to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so, 15 cars
per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase, especially when
the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly at the expense of
the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more of the current trains
and run 5 cars at 4tph?
When the line was re-signalled from the 1930s LMS system back in the
1980s the train capacity was greatly reduced (in the 1960s there were
up to 30tph timetabled between Harrow and Willesden Junction for about
30min of the morning peak). If the number of trains was to increase
much more then some additional signals will have to be installed to
enable shorter intervals; meanwhile the reduction from 5-coach 378s to
their 4-coach replacements seems something of a retrograde step.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-01-05 14:08:58 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered.
At the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from
3tph to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so,
15 cars per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase,
especially when the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly
at the expense of the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more
of the current trains and run 5 cars at 4tph?
Euston-Watford went to 5 cars because the whole 378 fleet did so.
Does it actually need the extra space?
Probably not. The Bakerloo trains take the bulk of the load on the shared
section, and north of H&W, the LO isn't very busy.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
And, given that the Crossrail Aventras have
23m long cars, rather than the 20m 378 cars, how long with the new
Overground class 710 cars be?
https://www.globalrailnews.com/2015/07/20/first-look-at-the-newest-addition-t
o-london-overgrounds-fleet/

With a suggestion that 4 cars won't be enough on Euston-Watford. Only 6
units too. Doesn't sound like an increase in frequency.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Paul Corfield
2017-01-08 23:51:04 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered. At
the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from 3tph
to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so, 15 cars
per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase, especially when
the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly at the expense of
the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more of the current trains
and run 5 cars at 4tph?
No increase in frequency in the short term. The contract options on the Aventra order do allow for more trains for the Watford service along with more for the GOBLIN Barking Riverside extension and train lengthening. As there is little in the TfL Business Plan about Overground expansion then don't hold your breath about anything happening on the DC line. Decisions about that route will inextricably be linked to how the Bakerloo Line is upgraded - especially in terms of signalling, depot access and platform accessibility. HS2 works at Euston must also be a factor. It is not an easy set of issues to fix.
--
Paul C via Google
Basil Jet
2017-01-09 00:24:29 UTC
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Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered. At
the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from 3tph
to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so, 15 cars
per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase, especially when
the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly at the expense of
the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more of the current trains
and run 5 cars at 4tph?
No increase in frequency in the short term. The contract options on the Aventra order do allow for more trains for the Watford service along with more for the GOBLIN Barking Riverside extension and train lengthening. As there is little in the TfL Business Plan about Overground expansion then don't hold your breath about anything happening on the DC line. Decisions about that route will inextricably be linked to how the Bakerloo Line is upgraded - especially in terms of signalling, depot access and platform accessibility. HS2 works at Euston must also be a factor. It is not an easy set of issues to fix.
Thanks. Any suggestion that the Southbury Loop might get more than 2tph?

Work at Turkey Street has resumed, BTW, and it is supposed to be gated
by "February 2017".

I can't work out if the Goblin stations will be gated... there seems to
be a lot of work at Harringay GL, but none at Crouch Hill (apart from
electrification obviously).

Finsbury Park is also a building site... I don't think that's been
mentioned here.
Paul Corfield
2017-01-09 14:35:56 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Basil Jet
Apparently the Euston to Watford line has had 4-car trains ordered. At
the moment, UIVMM, it has 5-car trains. Is it going to switch from 3tph
to 4tph at the exact same time as the new stock starts? Even so, 15 cars
per hour to 16 cars per hour is a very modest increase, especially when
the increased frequency will increase usage (mostly at the expense of
the Bakerloo). I wonder why they didn't order more of the current trains
and run 5 cars at 4tph?
No increase in frequency in the short term. The contract options on the Aventra order do allow for more trains for the Watford service along with more for the GOBLIN Barking Riverside extension and train lengthening. As there is little in the TfL Business Plan about Overground expansion then don't hold your breath about anything happening on the DC line. Decisions about that route will inextricably be linked to how the Bakerloo Line is upgraded - especially in terms of signalling, depot access and platform accessibility. HS2 works at Euston must also be a factor. It is not an easy set of issues to fix.
Thanks. Any suggestion that the Southbury Loop might get more than 2tph?
Work at Turkey Street has resumed, BTW, and it is supposed to be gated
by "February 2017".
I can't work out if the Goblin stations will be gated... there seems to
be a lot of work at Harringay GL, but none at Crouch Hill (apart from
electrification obviously).
Finsbury Park is also a building site... I don't think that's been
mentioned here.
Yes several GOBLIN stations are being gated in a separate package of work during the blockade. The money was approved a few months ago. The works for platform extensions started on 22 December 2016 according to a NR bulletin - again this work is procured separately by TfL. The GOBLIN wiring train starts working 24 hours a day from 12 Jan 2017 and will start at Gospel Oak. Getting the new bridge at Upper Holloway open on 16/1/17 is a key issue there.

Blackhorse Road is getting new lifts for the GOBLIN platforms - the towers are visible now but the footbridge is disconnected from the ticket hall!

I am still waiting to see if TfL have negotiated some extra off peak paths on West Anglia. I think DfT may have screwed them over because of some of the enhancements promised in the new Greater Anglia franchise. We shall have to wait and see what happens as TfL has been very quiet about the launch of the new Overground concession contract. There are rumours we will get Boxing Day services on LO for 2017.

Finsbury Park is a building site to install new lifts, open an old corridor and construct a new western ticket hall (from a new development). I've not been through in ages but that's the basic work scope.
--
Paul C
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