Discussion:
Grayling survives after all
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2018-01-08 20:31:12 UTC
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So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a move
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.

That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so good
for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and perhaps see
each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It also means that
Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will probably be seen
through to completion.
Robin9
2018-01-09 12:11:25 UTC
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I know some railway fanatics loathe Mr. Grayling because he
does not take a negligent attitude to Network Rail's grossly
bloated costs. These demented fanatics refuse to accept that
electrifying railway routes needs to be done for a sensible price.

I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company


--
Robin9
Roland Perry
2018-01-09 13:24:06 UTC
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Post by Robin9
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-01-09 15:53:15 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin9
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?
Roland Perry
2018-01-09 17:02:25 UTC
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In message
<1472438809.537205835.978414.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 15:53:15 on Tue, 9 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin9
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-01-09 22:04:15 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 15:53:15 on Tue, 9 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin9
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).
That's not what I've read.
Robin9
2018-01-09 23:19:37 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org, at 15:53:15 on Tue, 9 Jan 2018, Recliner
---
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.-
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.-
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?-
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).
--
Roland Perry
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money. The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain


--
Robin9
Recliner
2018-01-10 00:13:14 UTC
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Post by Robin9
Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org, at 15:53:15 on Tue, 9 Jan 2018, Recliner
---
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.-
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.-
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?-
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).
--
Roland Perry
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money. The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.
Yes, I think that's correct.
Roland Perry
2018-01-10 08:27:07 UTC
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Post by Robin9
Post by Robin9
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.-
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.-
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?-
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money.
If it's costing a billion to re-open a line that's pretty much already
there, that's a disgrace. However, isn't most of that project almost
done now?
Post by Robin9
The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.
The finance is "certain", in the sense that (this week anyway) it will
have to be raised privately, and is therefore zero. And the various
promoters of the scheme keep making absurdly over-optimistic noises
about both the benefit and the likelihood of it going ahead.

Not only are they attempting to create a Golden Age That Never Was[3],
but they're papering-over the fact the original promise was Oxford to
Bedford in 43 minutes, now slipped to 71 minutes[1]; and almost all the
Bedford-Cambridge intermediate sources/sinks of traffic[2] are bypassed
in the currently "favoured by Network Rail" scheme C2-2 [4].

Looking at that scheme it does appear to be genuinely the least-worst,
so I don't think the route is "uncertain" should it be built.

[1] Thus longer than the 60 minutes originally promised for Oxford-
Cambridge.
[2] Including missing out central Bedford!
[3] Hat-tip to BevanPrice:
"from Cambridge, you could not arrive in Oxford before 10:29 - with
a 29 minute wait at Bletchley; return departures from Oxford were
(SX) 14:48 then 18:48; an intermediate departure at 17:18 to
Bletchley had no connections beyond Bedford. Likewise From Oxford,
you could not arrive in Cambridge before 10:32. (1963 timetable).
[4] p25 here: <http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03
/Central-Section-Engineering-Summary-Report.pdf>
--
Roland Perry
Robin9
2018-01-10 11:23:03 UTC
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Post by Robin9
-
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognise
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularl
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separat
company.
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privatel
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts a
giving his full support.
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to th
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split i
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station an
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers
money.
If it's costing a billion to re-open a line that's pretty much alread
there, that's a disgrace. However, isn't most of that project almos
done now
The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedfor
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, wit
neither the route nor finance at all certain.
The finance is "certain", in the sense that (this week anyway) it wil
have to be raised privately, and is therefore zero. And the variou
promoters of the scheme keep making absurdly over-optimistic noise
about both the benefit and the likelihood of it going ahead
Not only are they attempting to create a Golden Age That Never Was[3]
but they're papering-over the fact the original promise was Oxford t
Bedford in 43 minutes, now slipped to 71 minutes
Roland Perr
Work on the section between the new Bicester junction and
Bletchley hasn't even started yet. The track bed has suffered
serious erosion since being mothballed and in places will require
a complete rebuild. I've walked along part of the route and hav
seen small ponds and robust vegetation in what was once th
track bed.

I do agree that a billion is - or should be - way over the top.
I assume one part of that huge sum is to pay for whatever
irrational scheme they come up with for Bedford and that
another part is to pay for accommodating HS2 in the Claydo
Junction area.

I didn't know that 43 minutes was ever planned for Oxford t
Bedford. I'm not sure what the distance is or how many stops
were intended, but Winslow will be the only station between
Bicester Village and Bletchley and the route is well laid out s
fairly high speeds will be possible


--
Robin9
Roland Perry
2018-01-10 12:43:42 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Robin9
Post by Robin9
--
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.-
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.-
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?-
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).-
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money.-
If it's costing a billion to re-open a line that's pretty much already
there, that's a disgrace. However, isn't most of that project almost
done now?
-
The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.-
The finance is "certain", in the sense that (this week anyway) it will
have to be raised privately, and is therefore zero. And the various
promoters of the scheme keep making absurdly over-optimistic noises
about both the benefit and the likelihood of it going ahead.
Not only are they attempting to create a Golden Age That Never Was[3],
but they're papering-over the fact the original promise was Oxford to
Bedford in 43 minutes, now slipped to 71 minutes
Work on the section between the new Bicester junction and
Bletchley hasn't even started yet. The track bed has suffered
serious erosion since being mothballed and in places will require
a complete rebuild. I've walked along part of the route and have
seen small ponds and robust vegetation in what was once the
track bed.
I do agree that a billion is - or should be - way over the top.
I assume one part of that huge sum is to pay for whatever
irrational scheme they come up with for Bedford and that
another part is to pay for accommodating HS2 in the Claydon
Junction area.
I didn't know that 43 minutes was ever planned for Oxford to
Bedford.
"Cambridge to Oxford being connected by frequent trains in just 60
minutes, and Cambridge to Bedford in just 28 minutes."[3]

So that's Oxford-Bedford in (a stunningly unrealistic) 32 min[4],
actually.

But I'm sure the 43 minutes is from a different (probably maybe later)
such pipedream^H^H^H plan. I would not have picked something as precise
as 43 minutes out of a hat.
Post by Robin9
I'm not sure what the distance is
That's easy - it's about 58 miles. Thus suspiciously close to 80mph now,
which they presumably thought on the back of an envelope a 100-125mph[1]
electric train could manage.
Post by Robin9
or how many stops were intended,
Traditionally, these "fastest times" are always cheekily quoted for the
only service each day that's non-stop. But that's marketing people for
you!
Post by Robin9
but Winslow will be the only station between Bicester Village and
Bletchley and the route is well laid out so fairly high speeds will be
possible.
Another problem has always been that the incessant reports over the
years all ignore many of the practical aspects, such as the route into
Cambridge, or even into Bedford and back out.

But as that now appears to be "settled" as missing Bedford, then via
Sandy and Foxton[2], all they need to do now is explain how it's
financially viable given Bedford, Luton, Stevenage, Hitchin and other
such places en-route have fallen by the wayside, that earlier plans said
it would serve.

[1] <https://www.railfuture.org.uk/ox-cam/docs/Railfuture-OxCam-
Cambridge-Bedford-Route-Options-2nd-Ed.pdf>
[2] Junction just north of Shepreth, actually.
[3] <http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/more-backing-for-
re-opening-of-oxford-cambridge-varsity-route>
[4] Suspiciously close to 110mph average.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-01-10 21:46:51 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Robin9
Post by Robin9
--
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.-
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.-
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?-
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).-
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money.-
If it's costing a billion to re-open a line that's pretty much already
there, that's a disgrace. However, isn't most of that project almost
done now?
-
The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.-
The finance is "certain", in the sense that (this week anyway) it will
have to be raised privately, and is therefore zero. And the various
promoters of the scheme keep making absurdly over-optimistic noises
about both the benefit and the likelihood of it going ahead.
Not only are they attempting to create a Golden Age That Never Was[3],
but they're papering-over the fact the original promise was Oxford to
Bedford in 43 minutes, now slipped to 71 minutes
Roland Perry
Work on the section between the new Bicester junction and
Bletchley hasn't even started yet. The track bed has suffered
serious erosion since being mothballed and in places will require
a complete rebuild. I've walked along part of the route and have
seen small ponds and robust vegetation in what was once the
track bed.
I do agree that a billion is - or should be - way over the top.
I assume one part of that huge sum is to pay for whatever
irrational scheme they come up with for Bedford and that
another part is to pay for accommodating HS2 in the Claydon
Junction area.
The cost also covers upgrading the existing little-used freight line from
Claydon to Aylesbury Vale Parkway, and improving that station. But I think
it'll remain mainly single track.
Robin9
2018-01-11 17:56:52 UTC
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Raw Message
Roland Perry;164657 Wrote: -
--
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.-
Sort of. What he's said is that for it proceed, a separate privately
funded company needs to own the project. Apparently this counts as
giving his full support.-
Isn't there a billion of state money going in, too?-
Not for the bits which still need doing now (I'm unsighted as to the
amount they've spent on the bits which are by now open).-
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money.-
If it's costing a billion to re-open a line that's pretty much already
there, that's a disgrace. However, isn't most of that project almost
done now?
-
The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.-
The finance is "certain", in the sense that (this week anyway) it will
have to be raised privately, and is therefore zero. And the various
promoters of the scheme keep making absurdly over-optimistic noises
about both the benefit and the likelihood of it going ahead.
Not only are they attempting to create a Golden Age That Never Was[3],
but they're papering-over the fact the original promise was Oxford to
Bedford in 43 minutes, now slipped to 71 minutes
Roland Perry-
Work on the section between the new Bicester junction and
Bletchley hasn't even started yet. The track bed has suffered
serious erosion since being mothballed and in places will require
a complete rebuild. I've walked along part of the route and have
seen small ponds and robust vegetation in what was once the
track bed.
I do agree that a billion is - or should be - way over the top.
I assume one part of that huge sum is to pay for whatever
irrational scheme they come up with for Bedford and that
another part is to pay for accommodating HS2 in the Claydon
Junction area. -
The cost also covers upgrading the existing little-used freight lin
from
Claydon to Aylesbury Vale Parkway, and improving that station. But
think
it'll remain mainly single track.
I overlooked the section between Aylesbury and Claydon
Junction. Because it's still in use, it hasn't been allowed to
deteriorate to the same degree so the cost of restoration
should be manageable .

It's a brilliant piece of road building with no tunnels, no level
crossings, a few bridges, long straight stretches and easy
curves. One immediately north of Quainton Road Station will
to my uneducated eye need a speed limit of about 60 mph,
but after that there are only two slight curves before Claydon.
This YouTube video

- sadly with mediocre picture quality - let's us see the potential


--
Robin9

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-10 01:36:07 UTC
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Post by Robin9
I know some railway fanatics loathe Mr. Grayling because he
does not take a negligent attitude to Network Rail's grossly
bloated costs. These demented fanatics refuse to accept that
electrifying railway routes needs to be done for a sensible price.
I'm willing to give Mr. Grayling some slack because he recognises
Network Rail's shortcomings for what they are. I particularly
like the way he is giving the East West Rail project to a separate
company.
I wouldn't mind if the abundant evidence from his previous posts (including
opposition transport when I first came across him) is that he hasn't got a
clue and everything he touches rots up.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Paul Corfield
2018-01-09 12:46:14 UTC
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Post by Recliner
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a move
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so good
for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and perhaps see
each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It also means that
Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will probably be seen
through to completion.
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think I've witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my lifetime. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this lot are just beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election - "useless, hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming this.

I am no fan of Grayling (he's incompetent although he probably thinks himself a genius) but the risk with any move is that you get some other idiot in their place. The Khan / Grayling thing is a disastrous mess but at least both sides understand the relationship is fractious.
--
Paul C
via Google
Recliner
2018-01-09 14:02:16 UTC
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On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST), Paul Corfield
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Recliner
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a move
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so good
for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and perhaps see
each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It also means that
Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will probably be seen
through to completion.
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think I've witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my lifetime. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this lot are just beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election - "useless, hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming this.
I am no fan of Grayling (he's incompetent although he probably thinks himself a genius) but the risk with any move is that you get some other idiot in their place. The Khan / Grayling thing is a disastrous mess but at least both sides understand the relationship is fractious.
It looks like the current London mayor will have to develop a working
relationship with the younger brother of the previous London mayor: Jo
Johnson is now Transport Minister and Minister for London. He might be
responsible for pushing through the Heathrow expansion, against the
bitter opposition of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip...
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-10 01:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST), Paul Corfield
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Recliner
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a
move to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary.
Given May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set
to stay in that role for some time.
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so
good for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and
perhaps see each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It
also means that Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will
probably be seen through to completion.
We shall see. East Coast could hardly be less suited to the idea.
Post by Recliner
Post by Paul Corfield
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think
I've witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my
lifetime. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this
lot are just beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election
- "useless, hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming
this.
I am no fan of Grayling (he's incompetent although he probably thinks
himself a genius) but the risk with any move is that you get some other
idiot in their place. The Khan / Grayling thing is a disastrous mess but
at least both sides understand the relationship is fractious.
It looks like the current London mayor will have to develop a working
relationship with the younger brother of the previous London mayor: Jo
Johnson is now Transport Minister and Minister for London. He might be
responsible for pushing through the Heathrow expansion, against the
bitter opposition of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip...
Have we been told what the new ministerial responsibilities with the DfT are
yet? I wouldn't assume Johnson has London. Minister for London is usually a
non-transport role, I think.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2018-01-10 01:43:00 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST), Paul Corfield
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Recliner
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a
move to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary.
Given May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set
to stay in that role for some time.
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so
good for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and
perhaps see each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It
also means that Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will
probably be seen through to completion.
We shall see. East Coast could hardly be less suited to the idea.
True, but the partnership model will be used for all the new franchises.
They won't say so, but they seem to be emulating the ScotRail model, which
is seen to be working well now.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Paul Corfield
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think
I've witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my
lifetime. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this
lot are just beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election
- "useless, hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming
this.
I am no fan of Grayling (he's incompetent although he probably thinks
himself a genius) but the risk with any move is that you get some other
idiot in their place. The Khan / Grayling thing is a disastrous mess but
at least both sides understand the relationship is fractious.
It looks like the current London mayor will have to develop a working
relationship with the younger brother of the previous London mayor: Jo
Johnson is now Transport Minister and Minister for London. He might be
responsible for pushing through the Heathrow expansion, against the
bitter opposition of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip...
Have we been told what the new ministerial responsibilities with the DfT are
yet? I wouldn't assume Johnson has London. Minister for London is usually a
non-transport role, I think.
He does have minister for London, outside his DfT responsibilities.
Recliner
2018-01-10 06:55:42 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST), Paul Corfield
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Recliner
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a
move to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary.
Given May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set
to stay in that role for some time.
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so
good for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and
perhaps see each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It
also means that Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will
probably be seen through to completion.
We shall see. East Coast could hardly be less suited to the idea.
Post by Recliner
Post by Paul Corfield
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think
I've witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my
lifetime. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this
lot are just beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election
- "useless, hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming
this.
I am no fan of Grayling (he's incompetent although he probably thinks
himself a genius) but the risk with any move is that you get some other
idiot in their place. The Khan / Grayling thing is a disastrous mess but
at least both sides understand the relationship is fractious.
It looks like the current London mayor will have to develop a working
relationship with the younger brother of the previous London mayor: Jo
Johnson is now Transport Minister and Minister for London. He might be
responsible for pushing through the Heathrow expansion, against the
bitter opposition of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip...
Have we been told what the new ministerial responsibilities with the DfT are
yet? I wouldn't assume Johnson has London. Minister for London is usually a
non-transport role, I think.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jo-johnson-removed-after-clashes-with-pm-vd3tr8mz5?shareToken=a031a0715b0d99c7de53ada25c7365a9>
Roland Perry
2018-01-10 08:31:02 UTC
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In message
<611832380.537260091.967683.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 06:55:42 on Wed, 10 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Have we been told what the new ministerial responsibilities with the DfT are
yet? I wouldn't assume Johnson has London. Minister for London is usually a
non-transport role, I think.
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jo-johnson-removed-after-clashes-wit
h-pm-vd3tr8mz5?shareToken=a031a0715b0d99c7de53ada25c7365a9>
That makes it sound more like "Conservative junior Party Chairman for
London" rather than "minister".
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-09 14:51:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST)
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a mo=
ve
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.
=20
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so good
for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and perhaps se=
e
each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It also means that
Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will probably be seen
through to completion.
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think I'v=
e witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my lifeti=
me. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this lot are ju=
st beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election - "useless, =
hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming this.
Problem is , the labour side is even worse. Corbyn is an unreconstructed
Marxist, ditto McDonnell who arguably is even worse and would stick the knife
into Corbyn the minute labour got elected, Abbott is just a moron who only
got where she is through diversity box ticking, Thornberry is a cookie cutter
human rights parasite completely out of touch with the people Labour are
supposed to represent and the rest of them are just non-entities.
Recliner
2018-01-09 16:17:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST)
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a mo=
ve
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.
=20
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so good
for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and perhaps se=
e
each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It also means that
Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will probably be seen
through to completion.
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think I'v=
e witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my lifeti=
me. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this lot are ju=
st beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election - "useless, =
hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming this.
Problem is , the labour side is even worse. Corbyn is an unreconstructed
Marxist, ditto McDonnell who arguably is even worse and would stick the knife
into Corbyn the minute labour got elected, Abbott is just a moron who only
got where she is through diversity box ticking, Thornberry is a cookie cutter
human rights parasite completely out of touch with the people Labour are
supposed to represent and the rest of them are just non-entities.
Osborne sums it up neatly in the Standard:
"You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.

If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve ever had, the
Tories would be finished."

<https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-reshuffle-farce-shows-pm-s-essential-weakness-a3735411.html>
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-09 16:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 16:17:51 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST)
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think I'v=
e witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my lifeti=
me. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this lot are ju=
st beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election - "useless, =
hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming this.
Problem is , the labour side is even worse. Corbyn is an unreconstructed
Marxist, ditto McDonnell who arguably is even worse and would stick the knife
into Corbyn the minute labour got elected, Abbott is just a moron who only
got where she is through diversity box ticking, Thornberry is a cookie cutter
human rights parasite completely out of touch with the people Labour are
supposed to represent and the rest of them are just non-entities.
"You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve ever had, the
Tories would be finished."
True, but Osborne is still bitter about being sacked and he was fairly useless
as chancellor so you usually have to talk what he says with a pinch of salt.
ColinR
2018-01-09 17:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 04:46:14 -0800 (PST)
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a mo=
ve
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.
=20
That's probably good news for the third Heathrow runway, but not so good
for TfL; Sadiq Khan and Grayling don't work well together, and perhaps se=
e
each other as potential future rivals for the top job. It also means that
Grayling's pet plan for formal TOC/NR partnerships will probably be seen
through to completion.
Ah yes Theresa's disastrous, useless and weak reshuffle. I don't think I'v=
e witnessed such an unedifying shambles from a governing party in my lifeti=
me. All parties have their wobbles regardless of leader but this lot are ju=
st beyond useless. As I said about Mrs May during the election - "useless, =
hopeless and visionless". Every day just keeps confirming this.
Problem is , the labour side is even worse. Corbyn is an unreconstructed
Marxist, ditto McDonnell who arguably is even worse and would stick the knife
into Corbyn the minute labour got elected, Abbott is just a moron who only
got where she is through diversity box ticking, Thornberry is a cookie cutter
human rights parasite completely out of touch with the people Labour are
supposed to represent and the rest of them are just non-entities.
"You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve ever had, the
Tories would be finished."
<https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-reshuffle-farce-shows-pm-s-essential-weakness-a3735411.html>
Everything he writes is excessively flavoured by sour grapes. Even if he
was 100% correct I would not believe it...
--
Colin
Arthur Figgis
2018-01-09 18:39:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
"You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRDA_(slang) ?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Tim Watts
2018-01-09 19:34:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
"You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
Worst election call?
Post by Recliner
If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve ever had, the
Tories would be finished."
Well, that's true...
Basil Jet
2018-01-10 12:54:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Watts
  "You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the
hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
Worst election call?
If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve ever had, the
Tories would be finished."
Well, that's true...
No it's not. If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve
ever had, May would be replaced.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-10 14:40:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:54:52 +0000
Post by Tim Watts
  "You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the
hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
Worst election call?
If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve ever had, the
Tories would be finished."
Well, that's true...
No it's not. If they were not facing one of the worst oppositions we’ve
ever had, May would be replaced.
She was never replaced as Home Secretary despite being utterly useless in
just about every important sphere - she refused to limit immigration, refused
to introduce proper in/out border checks, cut funding to the border force and
pissed off the police who ended up despising her. Thats some achievment for a
Tory - normally that would be the province of a loony lefty.
tim...
2018-01-10 16:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Watts
Post by Recliner
"You have to hand it to this Prime Minister: she’s given us the hat-trick
of the worst reshuffle, the worst party conference speech and the worst
manifesto in modern history.
Worst election call?
I'm inclined to go with the awful manifest killing the opportunity

tim
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-10 01:46:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin9
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money. The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.
Yes, I think that's correct.
Don't agree. There's a lot of route planning work going on on the central
section (Bedford-Cambridge) and enough head of steam visible at this end to
deliver it in the 2020s.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2018-01-10 06:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin9
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money. The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.
Yes, I think that's correct.
Don't agree. There's a lot of route planning work going on on the central
section (Bedford-Cambridge) and enough head of steam visible at this end to
deliver it in the 2020s.
But who will fund it? Property developers along the route,
Metroland-style? Banks?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-10 01:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
It looks like the current London mayor will have to develop a working
relationship with the younger brother of the previous London mayor: Jo
Johnson is now Transport Minister and Minister for London. He might be
responsible for pushing through the Heathrow expansion, against the
bitter opposition of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip...
Have we been told what the new ministerial responsibilities with
the DfT are yet? I wouldn't assume Johnson has London. Minister for
London is usually a non-transport role, I think.
He does have minister for London, outside his DfT responsibilities.
After previous reshuffles it has taken a day or two for the new junior
ministerial responsibilities in the DfT to emerge.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2018-01-10 02:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
It looks like the current London mayor will have to develop a working
relationship with the younger brother of the previous London mayor: Jo
Johnson is now Transport Minister and Minister for London. He might be
responsible for pushing through the Heathrow expansion, against the
bitter opposition of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip...
Have we been told what the new ministerial responsibilities with
the DfT are yet? I wouldn't assume Johnson has London. Minister for
London is usually a non-transport role, I think.
He does have minister for London, outside his DfT responsibilities.
After previous reshuffles it has taken a day or two for the new junior
ministerial responsibilities in the DfT to emerge.
Yes, but that's unconnected with his London minister role. Also, as the DfT
SoS hasn't changed, Johnson most probably just inherits John Hayes'
responsibilities.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-10 16:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin9
I have the impression that the project is unofficially split in
two. The realistic part - between Bicester Village Station and
Bletchley - is now going ahead with a large dollop of taxpayers'
money. The unrealistic part - the new build between Bedford
and Cambridge - seems to be making no real progress, with
neither the route nor finance at all certain.
Yes, I think that's correct.
Don't agree. There's a lot of route planning work going on on the
central section (Bedford-Cambridge) and enough head of steam
visible at this end to deliver it in the 2020s.
But who will fund it? Property developers along the route,
Metroland-style? Banks?
I believe the funding is being lined up.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
tim...
2018-01-10 16:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
So, despite the quickly-withdrawn mistakenly tweeted announcement of a move
to party chairman, Chris Grayling survives as Transport Secretary. Given
May's inability to make further large reshuffles, he could be set to stay
in that role for some time.
not sure staying with the poisoned chalice counts as surviving


tim
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