Discussion:
Cleaner Air For London?
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r***@ntlworld.com
2017-04-27 14:21:48 UTC
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https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-forward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
Roland Perry
2017-04-27 19:14:58 UTC
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Post by r***@ntlworld.com
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-f
orward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
I wonder what the National Grid thinks about these plans.
--
Roland Perry
r***@ntlworld.com
2017-04-27 23:49:36 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-f
orward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
I wonder what the National Grid thinks about these plans.
--
Roland Perry
The National Grid probably prefers not to think about them. The
pseudo-environmentalists who pretend to care about the environment
but who support anti-motorist measures that make air pollution much
worse will continue to assert that we should use less electricity!
Recliner
2017-04-28 04:17:46 UTC
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Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-f
orward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
I wonder what the National Grid thinks about these plans.
--
Roland Perry
The National Grid probably prefers not to think about them. The
pseudo-environmentalists who pretend to care about the environment
but who support anti-motorist measures that make air pollution much
worse will continue to assert that we should use less electricity!
Well, we are doing (slightly):

"Electricity generated in 2016 fell by 0.2 per cent from 339.1 TWh in 2015
to 338.6 TWh.



The UK’s primary energy demand is projected to fall by a total of 6% over
the next 10 years, before rising to 2% above current levels by the end of
2035."

<https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/599539/Updated_energy_and_emissions_projections_2016.pdf>
Roland Perry
2017-04-28 08:24:48 UTC
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In message
<202709359.515045286.112230.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 04:17:46 on Fri, 28 Apr 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-f
orward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
I wonder what the National Grid thinks about these plans.
--
Roland Perry
The National Grid probably prefers not to think about them. The
pseudo-environmentalists who pretend to care about the environment
but who support anti-motorist measures that make air pollution much
worse will continue to assert that we should use less electricity!
"Electricity generated in 2016 fell by 0.2 per cent from 339.1 TWh in 2015
to 338.6 TWh.
The UK’s primary energy demand is projected to fall by a total of 6% over
the next 10 years, before rising to 2% above current levels by the end of
2035."
<https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/599539/Updated_energy_and_emissions_projections_2016.pdf>
Figure 4.2(b) shows very little migration towards electric cars, while
5.1 says we'll quadruple our imported electricity over the next decade.
--
Roland Perry
Offramp
2017-04-28 08:34:15 UTC
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Post by Recliner
The UK’s primary energy demand is projected to fall by a total of 6% over
the next 10 years, before rising to 2% above current levels by the end of
2035."
These people are experts and I am not. That is why I am puzzled by this prognostication.

Between now and 2027 electricity usage is going to drop. Then between 2027 and 2035 it is going to start rising again, to slightly more than it is now.

Is that what they are saying?
Neil Williams
2017-04-28 08:53:30 UTC
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Post by Recliner
"Electricity generated in 2016 fell by 0.2 per cent from 339.1 TWh in 2015
to 338.6 TWh.
A lot of that will come from efficiency improvements in homes[1], and
in the case of electricity because gas central heating is now the norm,
not a 3-bar electric fire.

[1] Most of my ceiling lights are 3-bulb GU10 spot fittings, I like the
warm light and shadows from these. As-was, that was 150W per fitting
(and a fire risk from all the heat). Now I'm all-LED it's 18W per
fitting. That's almost a tenth. The telly now is electronic rather
than CRT, too, and the new fridge is more efficient than the old one.

Neil
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Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Nobody
2017-04-30 00:54:06 UTC
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On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:53:30 +0100, Neil Williams
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Recliner
"Electricity generated in 2016 fell by 0.2 per cent from 339.1 TWh in 2015
to 338.6 TWh.
A lot of that will come from efficiency improvements in homes[1], and
in the case of electricity because gas central heating is now the norm,
not a 3-bar electric fire.
[1] Most of my ceiling lights are 3-bulb GU10 spot fittings, I like the
warm light and shadows from these. As-was, that was 150W per fitting
(and a fire risk from all the heat). Now I'm all-LED it's 18W per
fitting. That's almost a tenth. The telly now is electronic rather
than CRT, too, and the new fridge is more efficient than the old one.
Neil
Which confirms how my "local" electricity generator/supplier (BC Hydro
for 4.5 million people... gawd knows household/businesses/consumers)
is in the poo for wanting to flood an expanse of NE BC for a dam
apparently/supposedly not needed.

There's no way as an 'average' or even semi-informed citizen or
consumer that I can appreciate the need or demand.

But the advance time to plan for thaty demand/build for need is just
as troublesome.
Ding Bat
2017-05-17 07:24:59 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-f
orward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
I wonder what the National Grid thinks about these plans.
--
Roland Perry
The National Grid probably prefers not to think about them. The
pseudo-environmentalists who pretend to care about the environment
but who support anti-motorist measures that make air pollution much
worse will continue to assert that we should use less electricity!
"Electricity generated in 2016 fell by 0.2 per cent from 339.1 TWh in 2015
to 338.6 TWh.
If they figures are for the UK as a whole, they show that the UK consumes 18 times less electricity per capita than the US, which seems strangely low.

If we assume that all of the UK - 65.14 million people - consumed only 339.1 TWh in 2015, that works out to 594* w per person; I've read that the figure for the US is 11,000 w per person, which is about 18 times higher.

* 339.1e12/65.14e6/365/24 = 594
Post by Recliner
The UK’s primary energy demand is projected to fall by a total of 6% over
the next 10 years, before rising to 2% above current levels by the end of
2035."
<https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/599539/Updated_energy_and_emissions_projections_2016.pdf>
Recliner
2017-05-17 08:29:59 UTC
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Post by Ding Bat
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@ntlworld.com
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2017/april/tfl-drives-f
orward-18-million-electric-vehicle-scheme
I wonder what the National Grid thinks about these plans.
--
Roland Perry
The National Grid probably prefers not to think about them. The
pseudo-environmentalists who pretend to care about the environment
but who support anti-motorist measures that make air pollution much
worse will continue to assert that we should use less electricity!
"Electricity generated in 2016 fell by 0.2 per cent from 339.1 TWh in 2015
to 338.6 TWh.
If they figures are for the UK as a whole, they show that the UK consumes
18 times less electricity per capita than the US, which seems strangely low.
If we assume that all of the UK - 65.14 million people - consumed only
339.1 TWh in 2015, that works out to 594* w per person; I've read that
the figure for the US is 11,000 w per person, which is about 18 times higher.
* 339.1e12/65.14e6/365/24 = 594
Quote:

In 2014 the total US consumption of electric energy was 4,146.2 Terawatt
hours (TWh) (or million MWh or billion kWh).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States#Electricity_consumption

Assuming a population of 320 million, that's about 13 compared to about 5.2
MWh/person in the UK, or about 2.5 times as much.

That's quite believable. After all, the US climate more extreme, requiring
more heating and much more air-conditioning, houses tend to be larger,
there's more manufacturing, etc.

Neil Williams
2017-04-28 08:51:02 UTC
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Post by r***@ntlworld.com
The National Grid probably prefers not to think about them. The
pseudo-environmentalists who pretend to care about the environment
but who support anti-motorist measures that make air pollution much
worse will continue to assert that we should use less electricity!
It's worth noting that all electric cars do is move pollution away from
the point of use - a laudable aim in cities, fairly pointless on a
rural motorway. Only if we generated all electricity from
renewables/nuclear would pollution itself be substantially affected.
Car use should still be reduced.

Indeed, this being the case, I would see plug-in series hybrids
(electric transmission) that can run on electricity in cities but
petrol outside them as the next growth area.

Neil
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Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
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