Discussion:
Heathrow Hyperloop hype
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2018-01-15 09:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
of a new runway:

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>

Extracts:

His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.

Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.

It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.

“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.

Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.



However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.

It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.

Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.

In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.

… continues
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 09:45:34 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises.
Ah, more anti-Branson hype from the Torygraph, what's the matter,
doesn't he make big enough donations to tory funds?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2018-01-15 09:59:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises.
Ah, more anti-Branson hype from the Torygraph, what's the matter,
doesn't he make big enough donations to tory funds?
I suspect his crime, in the Telegraph's view, is that he's strongly
anti-Brexit. And perhaps he fell out with the Barclay twins at some point?
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-15 11:44:24 UTC
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Raw Message
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 09:59:42 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperl
op-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises.
Ah, more anti-Branson hype from the Torygraph, what's the matter,
doesn't he make big enough donations to tory funds?
I suspect his crime, in the Telegraph's view, is that he's strongly
anti-Brexit. And perhaps he fell out with the Barclay twins at some point?
Branson lost his right to comment on Brexit when he fucked off to live on
his rock in the atlantic and not pay any tax. That, the desperate self
publicity and the blatant hypocrisy** are what get up peoples noses about this
bearded twerp.

** eg recent conversion to the enviromental cause. A bit rich coming from a
man who runs an airline and is probably single handedly responsible for more
CO2 having been generated than anyone else in the UK currently living.
Arthur Figgis
2018-01-15 18:51:06 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Branson lost his right to comment on Brexit when he fucked off to live on
his rock in the atlantic and not pay any tax.
Isn't that one of the aims of Brexit?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Robin
2018-01-15 10:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises.
Ah, more anti-Branson hype from the Torygraph, what's the matter,
doesn't he make big enough donations to tory funds?
There are plenty of others who have pointed out time and again the
difference between promise and delivery on Virgin Galactic. Eg
<https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/31/branson-virgin-galactic-space-travel-failures>

And who have been questioning the claims for hyperloop - a proposal
which reminds me of maglev in the 70s/80s.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 10:32:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robin
Post by Graeme Wall
Ah, more anti-Branson hype from the Torygraph, what's the matter,
doesn't he make big enough donations to tory funds?
There are plenty of others who have pointed out time and again the
difference between promise and delivery on Virgin Galactic. Eg
<https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/31/branson-virgin-galactic
-space-travel-failures>
And who have been questioning the claims for hyperloop - a proposal
which reminds me of maglev in the 70s/80s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracked_Hovercraft
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 10:08:15 UTC
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In message
<432940330.537700276.962786.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 09:19:31 on Mon, 15 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick
-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
Some rather older hype, which also reminded me of current hype-infested
discussions of autonomous cars and/or driverless/electric parcel
delivery in London:

Loading Image...
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 10:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 09:19:31 on Mon, 15 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick
-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
Some rather older hype, which also reminded me of current hype-infested
discussions of autonomous cars and/or driverless/electric parcel
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTkua8qU8AAno6_.jpg
Good find.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-15 18:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
In message
september.org>, at 09:19:31 on Mon, 15 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hype
rloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Some rather older hype, which also reminded me of current
hype-infested discussions of autonomous cars and/or
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTkua8qU8AAno6_.jpg
Good find.
Someone tweeted it this afternoon.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2018-01-16 08:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted,
instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Roland Perry
Some rather older hype, which also reminded me of current
hype-infested discussions of autonomous cars and/or
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTkua8qU8AAno6_.jpg
Good find.
Someone tweeted it this afternoon.
That would be me.
--
Roland Perry
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 11:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?

Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Recliner
2018-01-15 11:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Stansted has plenty of spare capacity, and both it and Gatwick are allowed
the night flights that are restricted at Heathrow.
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 11:26:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Stansted has plenty of spare capacity, and both it and Gatwick are allowed
the night flights that are restricted at Heathrow.
Define "plenty" - it's certainly capacity limited in terms of access and
terminal space for the plethora of early morning Ryanair etc flights.
Ok - I can imagine there's spare during less desirable (for the airlines
mainly) times of day.

Also, do we really want all of London's airports operating at absolute
capacity - surely it would be better to have spare at all times of day
for new flight offerings as appropriate (subject of course to noise
concerns, air corridors and so on), but also in case we lose some of the
capacity for whatever reason (crash, runway tarmac problems and so on)
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 11:44:45 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-01-15 12:19:06 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
No it's not:
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 12:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/
That's a different bit of the demerged company, dealing in building
materials, rather than construction.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-01-15 12:49:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/
That's a different bit of the demerged company, dealing in building
materials, rather than construction.
Indeed, but the Tarmac that exists today isn't part of Carillion.
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 15:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/
That's a different bit of the demerged company, dealing in building
materials, rather than construction.
Indeed, but the Tarmac that exists today isn't part of Carillion.
But it doesn't maintain the tarmac on runways. I agree the branding is a
bit confusing though.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-01-15 16:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/
That's a different bit of the demerged company, dealing in building
materials, rather than construction.
Indeed, but the Tarmac that exists today isn't part of Carillion.
But it doesn't maintain the tarmac on runways. I agree the branding is a
bit confusing though.
I doubt that even the original pre-split Tarmac company maintained the
tarmac on runways.
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 12:20:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
Can't run(a)way from that…

I'll get my coat.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2018-01-15 12:26:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
You say that with such certainty, but it's not true:
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/

<http://www.tarmac.com/news-and-media/news/2015/august/uk-construction-leader-tarmac-relaunches-under-crh-ownership/>
tim...
2018-01-15 14:34:20 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
really?

TV news has been telling us so all weekend

I have no further info that that

tim
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 15:15:14 UTC
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In message
<1139246585.537711856.450793.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 12:26:37 on Mon, 15 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
crash, runway tarmac problems and so on
Tarmac is part of Carillion, now.
https://www.tarmac.com/about-us/
<http://www.tarmac.com/news-and-media/news/2015/august/uk-construction-l
eader-tarmac-relaunches-under-crh-ownership/>
That's a different bit of the original Tarmac company. It doesn't build
airports.
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2018-01-15 11:47:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop
transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Stansted has plenty of spare capacity, and both it and Gatwick are allowed
the night flights that are restricted at Heathrow.
though the number of night flights is tiny, even where they are allowed

They obviously don't fit into a sensible schedule for most routes

I.e. there's zero demand for a 01:00 departure AND a 04:00 landing. People
might suffer one or the other (for a medium/long haul destination), but not
both.

tim
Arthur Figgis
2018-01-15 18:56:51 UTC
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Post by tim...
I.e. there's zero demand for a 01:00 departure AND a 04:00 landing.
People might suffer one or the other (for a medium/long haul
destination), but not both.
I've done midnight-ish to rancid o'clock in the morning flights from
Luton to eastern Europe, and they weren't empty.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 12:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?  Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
tim...
2018-01-15 14:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop
transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
in seats that they have zero chance of losing, no matter how much they piss
them off

tim
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 15:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir
Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?
Last time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports
and it's not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or
whatever, but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot
cheaper than a third at Heathrow.  But the former directly affects
more tory voters than the latter.
in seats that they have zero chance of losing, no matter how much they
piss them off
The day of the guaranteed safe seat is probably over.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
tim...
2018-01-15 17:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
in seats that they have zero chance of losing, no matter how much they
piss them off
The day of the guaranteed safe seat is probably over.
In the predominately rural SE [1]?

Nah

The only seat that Labour have a chance of winning is Crawley, which
paradoxically is too close to the airport to suffer from overflying
aircraft.

Historically the LibDems were the potential alternative, but currently they
are a spent force

Canterbury was an aberration caused by a student campaign. Not repeatable
elsewhere.

tim

[1] so that's everywhere except Southampton, Portsmouth, Reading, Brighton,
Medway and Thanet.
m***@hotmail.com
2018-01-15 19:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Graeme Wall
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
in seats that they have zero chance of losing, no matter how much they piss
them off
In 2015, 98% of Scottish Labour MPs discovered that doesn't always
work.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Recliner
2018-01-15 16:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?  Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-15 16:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 16:29:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
For whom exactly other than Heathrow Plc and its spanish owners?
Recliner
2018-01-15 16:47:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 16:29:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
For whom exactly other than Heathrow Plc and its spanish owners?
They weren't measuring benefits to airport owners.

There is no Heathrow plc. If you actually meant Heathrow Airport Holdings
Limited, it's only 25% Spanish-owned.

Gatwick is also foreign-owned.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-16 09:41:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 16:47:29 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 16:29:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
For whom exactly other than Heathrow Plc and its spanish owners?
They weren't measuring benefits to airport owners.
Oh I think they were. In fact the airports and subsidiary companies who work
for them are about the only businesses who will benefit. That guff about
businesses flying to meetings in Ping Pong province in china if only the routes
were there was plucked out of the airport owners backsides.
Post by Recliner
There is no Heathrow plc. If you actually meant Heathrow Airport Holdings
Limited, it's only 25% Spanish-owned.
It seems quebec and singapore companies own most of the rest. So thats ok then.
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 16:40:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
<snip hyperloop bollocks>
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?  Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis of
where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.

Personally I'm still a fan of building an aiport in the middle of the
Severn estuary on a tidal barrage and connecting that with Heathrow (and
Gatwick/Stansted/Luton) via Hyperloop along the Great Western alignment
(which is pretty flat and straight). Benefits would be that the airport
would generate a massive amount of green power for the rest of the
country, you'd gain a further west road link between South Wales and the
South West (you might as well put a big road on top of the tidal barrage
as well), the Hyperloop would improve transport to South Wales / South
West, and you'd have an aiport that was marginally closer to the USA but
most importantly could be far enough from population centres that it
could operate 24x7 with impunity....
Robin
2018-01-15 16:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<snip>
Post by Someone Somewhere
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis of
where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers? Many passengers
at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration. Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Recliner
2018-01-15 17:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by Someone Somewhere
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis of
where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers? Many passengers
at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration. Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
Yes, that's a good point. As far as possible, air-side transfers are in a
single terminal, with automatic baggage transfers, and that's tedious
enough. If you had to arrive landside and make your way to the separate
Hyperloop terminal, with your luggage, that would be truly painful. Then
you'd have to do it all in reverse at the other airport.
ColinR
2018-01-15 17:26:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by Someone Somewhere
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis of
where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers? Many passengers
at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration. Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
Yes, that's a good point. As far as possible, air-side transfers are in a
single terminal, with automatic baggage transfers, and that's tedious
enough. If you had to arrive landside and make your way to the separate
Hyperloop terminal, with your luggage, that would be truly painful. Then
you'd have to do it all in reverse at the other airport.
But that is done in some other countries, albeit same airport but
different terminals. But with a five minute transit time (!!)
effectively Thiefrow, Gatwick and Stanstead would become three terminals
of "London Airport".
--
Colin
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 17:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by Someone Somewhere
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis
of where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers?  Many passengers
at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration.  Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
Airside passengers board cars with doors only on one side, other
passengers board cars with doors only on the other side. Stations are
designed accordingly.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 17:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by Someone Somewhere
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis
of where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers?  Many
passengers at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration.  Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
Airside passengers board cars with doors only on one side, other
passengers board cars with doors only on the other side.  Stations are
designed accordingly.
Yes - surely it's not beyond the wit of man that certain cars (for want
of a different word) are designated air-side, land-side, luggage or
cargo (presumably the latter two may need to transfer terminals/airports
too) and routed to different end-points (which for want of a different
words we'll call stations).

Does Hyperloop allow branches as surely that's needed. I also assume it
can handle a significant capacity in a reasonable time (what's the peak
passenger rate at Heathrow? presumably 15K per hour or more)
David Walters
2018-01-16 14:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by Someone Somewhere
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping
great if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport
transfers in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an
airport then that might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis
of where to put additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers?  Many
passengers at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration.  Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
Airside passengers board cars with doors only on one side, other
passengers board cars with doors only on the other side.  Stations are
designed accordingly.
Yes - surely it's not beyond the wit of man that certain cars (for want
of a different word) are designated air-side, land-side, luggage or
cargo (presumably the latter two may need to transfer terminals/airports
too) and routed to different end-points (which for want of a different
words we'll call stations).
That's more or less what they do with Eurostar between Brussels and Lille.
Clive D.W. Feather
2018-01-29 15:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robin
But could hyperloop deliver this for airside transfers? Many passengers
at an international hub don't want a transfer that requires
immigration+baggage collection+customs followed by baggage
drop+security+emigration. Not impossible but segregating "airside"
passengers (and their through-booked baggage) securely on hyperloop
seems to me non-trivial.
Actually that shouldn't be hard.

A couple of years ago I was at Taipei airport with a bit of time to
kill. They've got one of those transit "rail" systems like the ones at
Stansted, Gatwick, and Heathrow T5. The train was two units, with one
used for groundside travel and the other for airside travel. There were
staggered platforms on opposite sides of the track for the two so that
the passenger flows remained completely separate.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
tim...
2018-01-15 17:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
<snip hyperloop bollocks>
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway? Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
But isn't the point of this discussion that if (and it's a whopping great
if) using the Hyperloop technology could give us inter-airport transfers
in the time it typically takes to change terminals in an airport then that
might change the dynamics and cost-benefit analysis of where to put
additional airport capacity in the overall London area.
Personally I'm still a fan of building an aiport in the middle of the
Severn estuary on a tidal barrage and connecting that with Heathrow (and
Gatwick/Stansted/Luton) via Hyperloop along the Great Western alignment
(which is pretty flat and straight). Benefits would be that the airport
would generate a massive amount of green power for the rest of the
country, you'd gain a further west road link between South Wales and the
South West (you might as well put a big road on top of the tidal barrage
as well), the Hyperloop would improve transport to South Wales / South
West, and you'd have an aiport that was marginally closer to the USA but
most importantly could be far enough from population centres that it could
operate 24x7 with impunity....
you are Michael Bell AICMFP

tim
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 21:19:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
you are Michael Bell AICMFP
Who's that?
Certes
2018-01-16 00:26:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by tim...
you are Michael Bell AICMFP
Who's that?
Mr. Bell was, until recently, a regular contributor to uk.railway.
He suggested a number of schemes which were financially or technically
unproven. The most notable was an alternative to HS2: a þ (thorn)
shaped route, with stations on a loop of cities which he styled
Ringby, continuing via Middlesbrough to Scotland.
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-16 09:39:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Certes
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by tim...
you are Michael Bell AICMFP
Who's that?
Mr. Bell was, until recently, a regular contributor to uk.railway.
He suggested a number of schemes which were financially or technically
unproven.  The most notable was an alternative to HS2: a þ (thorn)
shaped route, with stations on a loop of cities which he styled
Ringby, continuing via Middlesbrough to Scotland.
Ah - that's not me! I just thought that with the absurdly optimistic
claims for the Hyperloop system that we might as well take it to its
full extent and suggest something truly radical for it.
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 17:11:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?  Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Arguably a second runway at Gatwick is more practical and a lot cheaper
than a third at Heathrow. But the former directly affects more tory
voters than the latter.
The commission found that both the costs and the benefits were lower at
Gatwick, but Heathrow was better overall.
AIUI that analysis ignored the effects of the disruption to the M25 and
M4 over a number of years while the junction was rebuilt and the
motorways moved to tunnels. No such work is needed at Gatwick.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2018-01-15 14:52:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?  Last
time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and it's
not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Are there shuttle services via helicopter between any of the airports?
Graeme Wall
2018-01-15 15:23:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Here's the latest hyperloop hype from CES, now proposed as a means of
providing very fast links between Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, instead
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/14/build-heathrow-gatwick-hyperloop-instead-third-runway-says-branson/>
His aspirations to send tourists into space have been notorious for
setbacks, missed deadlines and broken promises. However, Sir Richard
Branson’s latest venture believes it has the answer to Britain’s runway
expansion dilemma, proposing a system of high-speed “hyperloops” to ferry
passengers between London’s airports.
Virgin Hyperloop One, a California start-up chaired by the
billionaire, has
been studying the possibility of a series of high-speed tubes between
Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted which it says would allow passengers to
travel between the airports in as little as five minutes.
It says the hyperloop, a proposed transport system that involves futuristic
pods travelling through low pressure tubes at speeds of up to 670 mph,
would effectively turn London’s three major airports into one “hub”. Virgin
Hyperloop One’s chief executive Rob Lloyd said the plan could remove the
need for a third runway at Heathrow.
“[We’re] thinking about how technology could make it a much different
proposition than the third runway. “You’d think of this as moving between
terminals instead of moving between airports,” he said.
Lloyd said the company’s technical advisory board, made up of researchers
and infrastructure experts, had assessed the possibility of hyperloops
connecting the airports. They estimated it would take five minutes between
Heathrow and Gatwick, and seven to Stansted.

However, the idea has been mocked as the epitome of Silicon Valley blue-sky
thinking, with cost estimates already soaring above Musk’s
predictions and
engineers warning of the potential safety risks. The only successful tests
of the technology to date have been unmanned trials on Virgin Hyperloop
One’s 500-metre track in the Nevada desert, which have reached a maximum
speed of 240 mph.
It has drawn inevitable comparisons to Virgin Galactic, Sir Richard’s space
tourism venture, which originally planned to start flights in 2011 but has
been repeatedly hit by delays.
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop
transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after, although the
company has not yet signed a deal to build a track and would have several
regulatory barriers to overcome.
In December, a paper published by the Department for Transport said a
hyperloop in the UK would be “at least two decades away”. The DfT’s science
advisory council said potential problems with emergency braking, power
failures and cyber attacks, as well as the need for largely straight
routes, presented a number of “technical challenges”.
… continues
Whilst the idea of linking all the London airports is sensible and
reasonable, how does it do away with the need for a third runway?
Last time I checked slots were at a premium at all London airports and
it's not like they're being used for inter-London flights is it?
Now, the third runway could be a second runway at Gatwick or whatever,
but you still need more overall capacity surely?
Are there shuttle services via helicopter between any of the airports?
The Heathrow-Gatwick helo shuttle hasn't operated since 1986.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2018-01-15 11:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<432940330.537700276.962786.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 09:19:31 on Mon, 15 Jan 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Virgin Hyperloop One wants to have a fully-working hyperloop transporting
cargo by 2021, with passengers set to follow soon after
In a reverse of the famous meme: "Breakfast in London; lunch in New
York; dinner in San Francisco and baggage in Buenos Aires."
--
Roland Perry
Robin9
2018-01-15 10:01:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I'll believe it when I see it working. I'm not sure many people wil
like
the idea of being transported in a long tube at 670 mph


--
Robin9
tim...
2018-01-15 17:41:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I'll believe it when I see it working. I'm not sure many people will
like
the idea of being transported in a long tube at 670 mph.
like wot that are now you mean

tim
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