Discussion:
Bus Goes up in flames
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w***@hotmail.com
2016-12-02 15:48:08 UTC
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Happened in Kingston this morning. I saw it shortly after they put the fire out, the back of the bus was pretty much melted and the whole area stank of burning plastic. It was a 371 from Richmond way, only the driver on board luckily. He was reated for smoke inhalation.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/kingston-bus-fire-see-london-12262350

Neill
s***@potato.field
2016-12-02 16:31:26 UTC
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On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:48:08 -0800 (PST)
Happened in Kingston this morning. I saw it shortly after they put the fire=
out, the back of the bus was pretty much melted and the whole area stank o=
f burning plastic. It was a 371 from Richmond way, only the driver on board=
luckily. He was reated for smoke inhalation.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/kingston-bus-fire-see-london-122=
62350
Thats worryingly flammable.
--
Spud
Robin
2016-12-02 17:52:09 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:48:08 -0800 (PST)
Happened in Kingston this morning. I saw it shortly after they put the fire=
out, the back of the bus was pretty much melted and the whole area stank o=
f burning plastic. It was a 371 from Richmond way, only the driver on board=
luckily. He was reated for smoke inhalation.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/kingston-bus-fire-see-london-122=
62350
Thats worryingly flammable.
ISTM pretty normal for a commercial vehicle which carries a load of diesel.

And it's not all that rare for buses to burn. Eg

26/11 in Motherwell
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38119498>

17/11 in Gloucester
<http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/bus-fire-piccadilly-station-manchester-12217673>


My impression is that they and the similar lorry fires don't get that
much coverage because in the vast majority of cases no one is seriously
injured.
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Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
w***@hotmail.com
2016-12-02 22:38:27 UTC
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Going back past earlier, it looks like it stopped over a drain and the Fire Brigade managed to wash large amount of diesel into the Thames, which is a few metres away. Thames Waters were there, along with large amounts of sand spread over the road.

Neill
Tony Dragon
2016-12-03 10:12:24 UTC
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Post by w***@hotmail.com
Going back past earlier, it looks like it stopped over a drain and the Fire Brigade managed to wash large amount of diesel into the Thames, which is a few metres away. Thames Waters were there, along with large amounts of sand spread over the road.
Neill
Not the Thames, but the Hogsmill.
Many swans got covered in diesel see
http://www.surreycomet.co.uk/news/14943899.Swans_covered_in_oil_and_diesel_after_bus_fire_fuel_leak_spills_into_the_Hogsmill_river/


http://tinyurl.com/hs6ehj2

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Roland Perry
2016-12-03 10:02:36 UTC
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Post by Robin
ISTM pretty normal for a commercial vehicle which carries a load of diesel.
And it's not all that rare for buses to burn. Eg
26/11 in Motherwell <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-
west-38119498>
17/11 in Gloucester <http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate
r-manchester-news/bus-fire-piccadilly-station-manchester-12217673>
My impression is that they and the similar lorry fires don't get that
much coverage because in the vast majority of cases no one is seriously
injured.
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
opposite carriageway at the moment the black smoke turned to flames:

<http://www.essexlive.news/m11-closed-lorry-near-stansted-airport/story-
29260090-detail/story.html>
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2016-12-04 17:22:22 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.

Neil
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h***@yahoo.co.uk
2016-12-04 17:31:13 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently).
Which incident was that?
Neil Williams
2016-12-04 19:15:00 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Which incident was that?
There was a fire in an overhead air conditioning unit in a Southern
Electrostar which caused a bit of disruption and did a nice job of
melting the ceiling panels and turning everything black.

Neil
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Neil Williams
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h***@yahoo.co.uk
2016-12-04 19:40:45 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Which incident was that?
There was a fire in an overhead air conditioning unit in a Southern
Electrostar which caused a bit of disruption and did a nice job of
melting the ceiling panels and turning everything black.
Neil
When was that?
Neil Williams
2016-12-05 07:08:36 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
When was that?
About a week ago.

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/business/southern-rail-train-catches-on-fire-while-stood-at-platform-1-7701719


Neil
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Graham Murray
2016-12-04 17:37:52 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
What about hydrogen buses, such as the RV1? Hopefully there are very
strong precautions against the fuel catching fire or exploding even in
the case of a serious collision etc.
Recliner
2016-12-05 13:35:41 UTC
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On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 17:37:52 +0000, Graham Murray
Post by Graham Murray
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
What about hydrogen buses, such as the RV1? Hopefully there are very
strong precautions against the fuel catching fire or exploding even in
the case of a serious collision etc.
I think hydrogen-fuelled vehicles are much safer, as the gas escapes
before it can burn. The tanks also have to be very strong simply to
contain the high pressures.
Basil Jet
2016-12-06 04:39:59 UTC
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Post by Recliner
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 17:37:52 +0000, Graham Murray
Post by Graham Murray
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
What about hydrogen buses, such as the RV1? Hopefully there are very
strong precautions against the fuel catching fire or exploding even in
the case of a serious collision etc.
I think hydrogen-fuelled vehicles are much safer, as the gas escapes
before it can burn.
Oh the humanity!
Dr J R Stockton
2016-12-05 12:26:39 UTC
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Post by Graham Murray
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
What about hydrogen buses, such as the RV1? Hopefully there are very
strong precautions against the fuel catching fire or exploding even in
the case of a serious collision etc.
Hydrogen can only explode chemically if it is mixed with oxidiser before
ignition. Gaseous hydrogen is very much less dense than air, so will
rapidly depart the scene upwards - in which respect it is better than
ordinary liquid fuels. But, unlike the case for hydrocarbons, a
hydrogen flame is not easily visible.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ¬@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Merlyn Web Site < > - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Recliner
2016-12-04 21:16:12 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
Instead, you have a half a tonne of lithium-ion batteries... so much
better than a tank full of petrol!

https://www.rt.com/news/327752-tesla-electric-car-fire/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/29/nasa_shows_a_real_battery_fire/

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/samsung-isnt-one-lithium-ion-problems-just-ask-nasa/

http://www.techradar.com/news/why-lithium-ion-batteries-catch-fire

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37255127

http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2016/09/12/boeing-dell-technologies-samsung-tesla-and-burning-lithium-ion-batteries/#588a89f21bb2

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-lithium-ion-batteries-grounded-the-dreamliner/
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2016-12-05 02:19:59 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
Instead, you have a half a tonne of lithium-ion batteries... so much
better than a tank full of petrol!
https://www.rt.com/news/327752-tesla-electric-car-fire/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/29/nasa_shows_a_real_battery_fire/
https://www.wired.com/2016/10/samsung-isnt-one-lithium-ion-problems-just-ask-nasa/
http://www.techradar.com/news/why-lithium-ion-batteries-catch-fire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37255127
http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2016/09/12/boeing-dell-technologies-samsung-tesla-and-burning-lithium-ion-batteries/#588a89f21bb2
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-lithium-ion-batteries-grounded-the-dreamliner/
Not to speak for ion lithium batteries, but I believe that one reason
for the problems on Dreamliners was due to faulty installation, and not
because of the batteries themselves.
Recliner
2016-12-05 13:33:48 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
Instead, you have a half a tonne of lithium-ion batteries... so much
better than a tank full of petrol!
https://www.rt.com/news/327752-tesla-electric-car-fire/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/10/29/nasa_shows_a_real_battery_fire/
https://www.wired.com/2016/10/samsung-isnt-one-lithium-ion-problems-just-ask-nasa/
http://www.techradar.com/news/why-lithium-ion-batteries-catch-fire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37255127
http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2016/09/12/boeing-dell-technologies-samsung-tesla-and-burning-lithium-ion-batteries/#588a89f21bb2
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-lithium-ion-batteries-grounded-the-dreamliner/
Not to speak for ion lithium batteries, but I believe that one reason
for the problems on Dreamliners was due to faulty installation, and not
because of the batteries themselves.
The two go together. The batteries have a habit of over-heating, so
they need to be installed in vented, cooled but fire-proof enclosures.
If the batteries didn't over-heat, the demands on the containers
wouldn't be so stringent.
Roland Perry
2016-12-05 08:15:03 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
Vehicle fires are pretty rare, I don't see more than about one a year.

Putting aside the times one is a pedestrian, how many other cars does
one observe while driving the traditional 10k miles a year?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2016-12-05 13:34:13 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
Vehicle fires are pretty rare, I don't see more than about one a year.
Just wait till there are more BEVs on the roads...
Dr J R Stockton
2016-12-05 12:10:26 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
This truck I really did see bursting into flames - I was driving on the
I wonder what effect electric vehicles will have on the numbers
killed/injured or road disruption caused by vehicle fires, given that
fires in EMUs are very rare (notwithstanding that one, the only one I
ever heard of, occurred very recently). If you don't have a tank of
highly volatile fuel there to burn, the chance of fire is much lower.
A charged propulsion battery contains a similar amount of energy to what
a full fuel tank does, and is likely to contain flammable substances.
It could easily ignite the contents of the goods/passenger compartments.

Such a battery should be better protected than traditional fuel tanks
are; but perhaps the same could be said of the tanks.
--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. ¬@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Merlyn Web Site < > - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
s***@potato.field
2016-12-06 09:31:19 UTC
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On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 17:52:09 +0000
Post by Robin
Post by s***@potato.field
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:48:08 -0800 (PST)
Happened in Kingston this morning. I saw it shortly after they put the fire=
out, the back of the bus was pretty much melted and the whole area stank o=
f burning plastic. It was a 371 from Richmond way, only the driver on board=
luckily. He was reated for smoke inhalation.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/kingston-bus-fire-see-london-122=
62350
Thats worryingly flammable.
ISTM pretty normal for a commercial vehicle which carries a load of diesel.
It doesn't look like its the diesel thats burning though, it looks like its
the plastic panels.
Post by Robin
26/11 in Motherwell
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38119498>
Smart driver there - your bus catches fire so pull off the road and park it
next to someones house. A real rocket scientist that bus company has working
for them.
--
Spud
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2016-12-06 11:31:32 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Robin
ISTM pretty normal for a commercial vehicle which carries a load of diesel.
It doesn't look like its the diesel thats burning though, it looks like its
the plastic panels.
Post by Robin
26/11 in Motherwell
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38119498>
Smart driver there - your bus catches fire so pull off the road and park it
next to someones house. A real rocket scientist that bus company has working
for them.
Unless it was deliberate, Looking up and down the road on streetview
it looks a fairly deprived area and the house looks like part of the
adjoining nail bar,hair dresser style business an overcrowded market
for many young women attemptong to make a living.
That part of Scotland has a long history of protection rackets.

G.Harman
s***@potato.field
2016-12-06 12:02:40 UTC
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On Tue, 06 Dec 2016 11:31:32 +0000
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Robin
ISTM pretty normal for a commercial vehicle which carries a load of diesel.
It doesn't look like its the diesel thats burning though, it looks like its
the plastic panels.
Post by Robin
26/11 in Motherwell
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38119498>
Smart driver there - your bus catches fire so pull off the road and park it
next to someones house. A real rocket scientist that bus company has working
for them.
Unless it was deliberate, Looking up and down the road on streetview
it looks a fairly deprived area and the house looks like part of the
adjoining nail bar,hair dresser style business an overcrowded market
for many young women attemptong to make a living.
That part of Scotland has a long history of protection rackets.
There are probably much easier ways to intimidate people than nicking or
hijacking a bus to burn it next to their property.
--
Spud
Neil Williams
2016-12-06 12:36:15 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
There are probably much easier ways to intimidate people than nicking or
hijacking a bus to burn it next to their property.
Quite. If someone wanted to involve an incendiary vehicle in
something, a car would be much easier to acquire, and being petrol
rather than diesel you'd get more of an impressive fire more quickly.

Neil
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Tony Dragon
2016-12-06 22:58:12 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 17:52:09 +0000
Post by Robin
Post by s***@potato.field
On Fri, 2 Dec 2016 07:48:08 -0800 (PST)
Happened in Kingston this morning. I saw it shortly after they put the fire=
out, the back of the bus was pretty much melted and the whole area stank o=
f burning plastic. It was a 371 from Richmond way, only the driver on board=
luckily. He was reated for smoke inhalation.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/kingston-bus-fire-see-london-122=
62350
Thats worryingly flammable.
ISTM pretty normal for a commercial vehicle which carries a load of diesel.
It doesn't look like its the diesel thats burning though, it looks like its
the plastic panels.
Post by Robin
26/11 in Motherwell
<http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38119498>
Smart driver there - your bus catches fire so pull off the road and park it
next to someones house. A real rocket scientist that bus company has working
for them.
With the Kingston fire, if he had pulled up 100 yds further on he could
have burned the copshop.

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Roland Perry
2016-12-03 09:57:53 UTC
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Post by w***@hotmail.com
Happened in Kingston this morning. I saw it shortly after they put the fire out, the back of the bus was pretty much melted and the whole area
stank of burning plastic. It was a 371 from Richmond way, only the driver on board luckily. He was reated for smoke inhalation.
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/kingston-bus-fire-see-london-12262350
Shoddy journalism, it doesn't show the bus bursting into flames, rather
than some time after it was well alight.
--
Roland Perry
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