Discussion:
Mail Rail (Post Office Railway) visit
(too old to reply)
Recliner
2018-03-11 14:54:20 UTC
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I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.

For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
observations and pictures:

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>

- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.

- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).

- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).

- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.

- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.

- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.

- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.

- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.

- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.

- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.

- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.

- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).

- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.

- The Mail Rail and Postal Museum are in different buildings on
opposite sides of Phoenix Place, about 90m apart. You have separate
tickets for both.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-11 16:44:49 UTC
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Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.

Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Recliner
2018-03-11 17:05:04 UTC
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Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
Peter Able
2018-03-11 17:21:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?

PA
Recliner
2018-03-11 21:17:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter Able
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?
I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life,
it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train
control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'.

Apart from having drivers, the new trains have one other difference:
they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones
reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-11 23:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Peter Able
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?
I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life,
it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train
control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'.
On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were
there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train?
Post by Recliner
they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones
reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end.
The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've
seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings...


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Recliner
2018-03-11 23:49:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
Post by Peter Able
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?
I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life,
it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train
control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'.
On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were
there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train?
They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a
train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous
section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on.
There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually
switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones
reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end.
The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've
seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings...
I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units
out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the
voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be
changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in
and out of the depot).

Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which
were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to
the east of Mount Pleasant station.

Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage
was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically
slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were
split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the
parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be
loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station.

I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power,
but I think they must have been.
Charles Ellson
2018-03-12 05:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:49:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
Post by Peter Able
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?
I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life,
it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train
control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'.
On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were
there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train?
They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a
train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous
section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on.
There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually
switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones
reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end.
The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've
seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings...
I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units
out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the
voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be
changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in
and out of the depot).
Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which
were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to
the east of Mount Pleasant station.
Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage
was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically
slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were
split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the
parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be
loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station.
I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power,
but I think they must have been.
Spring brakes held off while traction current was present.
Recliner
2018-03-12 09:01:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 11 Mar 2018 23:49:28 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
Post by Peter Able
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?
I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life,
it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train
control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'.
On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were
there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train?
They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a
train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous
section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on.
There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually
switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones
reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end.
The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've
seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings...
I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units
out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the
voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be
changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in
and out of the depot).
Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which
were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to
the east of Mount Pleasant station.
Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage
was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically
slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were
split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the
parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be
loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station.
I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power,
but I think they must have been.
Spring brakes held off while traction current was present.
Yes, that sounds right.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 13:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
Post by Peter Able
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
I'm sure many people here have already visited and ridden on Mail Rail
museum, which opened last autumn. I finally got around to it last
week. This was my second visit to the railway, having been on an
organised visit about 40 years ago, when it was in full operation. Of
course, I didn't get a ride that time.
For anyone who's interested, but hasn't yet been, here are a few
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157664534713587>
- You still need to book in advance, but only a few days. You must
book tickets for a particular, timed train, and turn up 10 mins
before.
- They normally run one of the two new trains Mon-Fri (services every
20 mins), and both at weekends (services every 10 mins).
- The staff told me it's better to come on a weekday, as it's much
quieter (fewer rampaging kids).
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
- There are lockers in the entrance, which are worth using, as bags
can't be taken on the cramped train. There is also an unlocked cage on
the platform.
- The exhibition and tourist train platform are in the old depot,
which is very close to the surface. It's only one flight of stairs
down, so most people won't need the lift.
- The exhibition in the old depot is interesting, and includes a
virtual reality viewer of how it used to be. The can swing the screen
round, zooming in and out and even seeing through a wall. There are
several items of rolling stock to look at, and various other displays,
confusingly including the main line TPO Bag Exchange catcher nets and
mast, as seen on the Night Mail film. It could fool people into
thinking that there were used on Mail Rail.
- The train ride lasts 15 minutes, including two stops in the Mount
Pleasant station for audio-visual shows.
- The distance covered is small. Basically, you never leave Mount
Pleasant, starting out in the deport to the north west of the main
station, passing through the station, looping round immediately after
passing through the platform, and then returning through the other
platform.
- The trains are battery-powered, and are charged overnight. They do
up to 19 circuits in a day, which one charge can manage.
- The driver and controller alternate roles. They told me that it's
boring being the controller on a one-train day, and they much prefer
driving (who wouldn't?). There's also someone to open and close the
train doors and canopies, and to flip the tram-style seat backs.
- The clearance between the trains and the tunnels is very small in
places. Obviously the doors and canopies can't be opened during the
ride (the driver warns you that the train will stop if you put too
much pressure on them).
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
In the sense that there was no driver on its trains, I guess that the POLR
was "automatic"?
I think 'remote controlled' would be more accurate. For most of its life,
it was fully manual, but it had computer controlled signalling and train
control towards the end. But the trains were still 'dumb'.
On plain line (ie between the stations), was there one section, or were
there relays maintaining a dead section behind each powered train?
They were multi-section. Sections were only switched on when there was a
train to be powered in or approaching them. I assume that the previous
section was automatically switched off when the next section was turned on.
There's a simple simulator of the process in the museum: you manually
switch sections in and out, to move the miniature train forward.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
they're reversible. The old trains only ever ran forwards, but the new ones
reverse on every journey, so they have cabs at each end.
The 'dumb' units are double-ended AFAIK, from photographs and the one I've
seen for real (NRM, York). Also the system had reversing sidings...
I think the battery locos were needed to move stabled double-ended units
out of sidings. When under power, the units only moved forwards, with the
voltage determining how fast. Perhaps the definition of 'forwards' could be
changed during a depot visit (so trains could move under their own power in
and out of the depot).
Four of the stations had sidings-suitable-for-reversing, as well as loops.
I don't know the details, and I haven't yet visited the PO museum, so I may
well be wrong, but it seems unlikely that all of them were provided solely
for stabling of engineering trains; I'm pretty sure that the battery locos
weren't allowed out during normal traffic hours because they weren't part
of the 'signalling' system (presence or lack of line voltage).

Perhaps a negative voltage could be applied to the siding to get the train
back into the platform in order for its direction to be switched?

Edit: from another post in this thread,
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-rail/>
has a close up of one of the power units. It has a handle, behind which is
a plate which reads 'point handle in direction for running'.
Post by Recliner
Stations had reversing loops (like the Northern line at Kennington), which
were used to turn in-service trains. The museum trains use the loop just to
the east of Mount Pleasant station.
Correct.
Post by Recliner
Stations were on humps (like the nearby Central line), and the line voltage
was lower on the sections just before stations, so trains automatically
slowed down as they approached the platform. Station platform lines were
split into multiple sections, with crossovers between sections, to the
parallel through line. So three separate short trains could be
loaded/unloaded at once, while through trains non-stopped the station.
Only Mount Pleasant had that many crossovers. Some of the others didn't
have any crossovers at all, others had just two platform sections.
Post by Recliner
I'm not sure if the brakes were automatically applied when not under power,
but I think they must have been.
AFAIK they were.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-11 19:39:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<Snipped the stuff I forgot to finish last time, sorry>
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
True
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
I mean, I'd like to see a demonstration of the previous, automatic
operation. Perhaps 'unmanned operation' would have been a better phrase.
I'm not aware of the line having been used for any testing, trials or
otherwise.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Roland Perry
2018-03-11 18:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-11 21:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 17:05:04 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
Roland Perry
2018-03-11 21:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<630919317.542495089.551719.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-11 21:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 07:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<1719823670.542497660.825585.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 21:49:11 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
So they can use that for other trains too.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-12 09:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 21:49:11 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
So they can use that for other trains too.
Not without dismantling the museum.
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 09:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<325043422.542537048.171009.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 09:01:35 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
So they can use that for other trains too.
Not without dismantling the museum.
The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've
entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface
access to the depot?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-12 09:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 09:01:35 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
So they can use that for other trains too.
Not without dismantling the museum.
The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've
entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface
access to the depot?
I'm talking about the Mail Rail exhibition/museum in the former depot under
the Mount Pleasant GPO site, not the entirely separate Postal Museum.
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 09:35:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<1513027752.542539144.003727.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
So they can use that for other trains too.
Not without dismantling the museum.
The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've
entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface
access to the depot?
I'm talking about the Mail Rail exhibition/museum in the former depot under
the Mount Pleasant GPO site, not the entirely separate Postal Museum.
That's alongside the running tracks down to the tunnels, not in the way
of them. I suppose you noticed that some running tracks remained in the
waiting area?
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-12 10:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Through the depot surface access, of course.
So they can use that for other trains too.
Not without dismantling the museum.
The museum's the other side of the road - or are you saying they've
entombed the tour-trains having built on the site of a former surface
access to the depot?
I'm talking about the Mail Rail exhibition/museum in the former depot under
the Mount Pleasant GPO site, not the entirely separate Postal Museum.
That's alongside the running tracks down to the tunnels, not in the way
of them. I suppose you noticed that some running tracks remained in the
waiting area?
The waiting and film show area is on a false floor on top of the former
depot floor, complete with tracks.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-11 23:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Same way they got the original trains in and out, presumably; the depot
must have some kind of suitable access.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Recliner
2018-03-11 23:51:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 21:17:05 on Sun, 11 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
If there's no surface access, how did they get the tour-trains in there?
The surface access is in the former depot area, now turned into the tourist
train base and station. That's probably partly why it's so shallow, just
below the surface. The running line is deeper, a proper tube railway.
That doesn't answer the question: "how did they get the tour-trains in
there?"
Same way they got the original trains in and out, presumably; the depot
must have some kind of suitable access.
Yes
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 11:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
Here's how they took out some of the remaining trains in 2011:

<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>

And here's the crane: https://goo.gl/maps/EaqHVazHU3B2

The new trains went in that same way, much later.

This is an artist's impression of the refurbished depot, and it didn't
turn out quite like that. But I'm pretty sure I remember tracks in the
floor. The access shaft is at the far end of the lefthand section, which
like you said is set out as a museum, but had several bits of old
rolling stock which are probably not permanently blocking access.
Another site visit called for.

<http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72542000/jpg/_72542678_72542677.j
pg>

More pictures of the original depot (etc) here:

<http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3301552/Behind-anonymous-door-
unremarkable-office-secret-network-railway-tunnels-century-billions-
letters-transported-London.html>
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-12 11:20:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 13:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?

I'm sure it was all risk-assessed.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Graeme Wall
2018-03-12 14:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?
I'm sure it was all risk-assessed.
The fabric strap has a steel core I assume.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-12 16:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I'm sure it was all risk-assessed.
I'm sure these were too :)



Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 16:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting
the power units.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-12 16:59:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:51:56 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I
don't
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer
be
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting
the power units.
I saw 4 metal chains lifting those. Rather thin looking chains IMO given
those loco sections must be at least a ton each.
John Williamson
2018-03-12 17:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:51:56 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting
the power units.
I saw 4 metal chains lifting those. Rather thin looking chains IMO given
those loco sections must be at least a ton each.
Those chains look to me as if they are rated at a couple of tonnes each,
with the strap being wrapped a few times round the support and hook, for
a load rating of about 4 to 6 tonnes.

The straps used on the carriages are a size I've seen used to lift a 7
tonne narrowboat in a similar configuration.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 17:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Williamson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:51:56 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting
the power units.
I saw 4 metal chains lifting those. Rather thin looking chains IMO given
those loco sections must be at least a ton each.
Those chains look to me as if they are rated at a couple of tonnes each,
with the strap being wrapped a few times round the support and hook, for
a load rating of about 4 to 6 tonnes.
The straps used on the carriages are a size I've seen used to lift a 7
tonne narrowboat in a similar configuration.
I have no doubt at all that the lift was well within the capabilities of
the equipment used!


Anna Noyd-Dryver
John Williamson
2018-03-12 17:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
I have no doubt at all that the lift was well within the capabilities of
the equipment used!
Having looked at the pictures, nor have I.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 17:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:51:56 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I
don't
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer
be
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting
the power units.
I saw 4 metal chains lifting those. Rather thin looking chains IMO given
those loco sections must be at least a ton each.
Look at the second picture in the link above. From the loco, working
upwards: four chains, stretcher bar, single yellow strap,
hook/block-and-tackle, cables.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Robin
2018-03-12 18:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Look at the second picture in the link above. From the loco, working
upwards: four chains, stretcher bar, single yellow strap,
hook/block-and-tackle, cables.
I think there may possibly be 2 straps. In any event, a single 75mm
webbing strap can often be rated at more than 10 tonnes
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Recliner
2018-03-12 21:02:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:51:56 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 13:28:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 12 Mar 2018 11:04:07 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I
don't
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer
be
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
Some quite thin chains given how heavy those locomotives must be.
Surely the single yellow fabric strap is the more concerning part of the
set up?
Depending on what they're made of fabric straps can be exceptionally strong.
Plus I doubt that carraige is as heavy as the locos.
There are four yellow straps lifting the carriage. There's just one lifting
the power units.
I saw 4 metal chains lifting those. Rather thin looking chains IMO given
those loco sections must be at least a ton each.
They're not loco sections: they're just power bogies from the later mail
units.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 13:28:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message <2132316179.542480534.571005.recliner.ng-
Post by Recliner
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Additionally the conductor rail has to be removed to allow the passenger
train to run; this is not a problem in itself but it does prevent future
demonstrations of automatic trains (something I'd love to see, but I don't
know if it's on anyone's agenda) if you remove too much of it.
I didn't know the line had been used for trials of automatic trains? How
would they get them up and down, given that the old depot can no longer be
used for surface access?
<https://www.londonreconnections.com/2011/in-pictures-moving-the-mail-
rail/>
One of the pictures in that post answers a question from another post,
thanks! There's a handle on the power units with a plate behind which reads
'point handle in direction for running'.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 09:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
From the site's FAQ:

"Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is
restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a
confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface."
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-12 09:29:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
"Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is
restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a
confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface."
If the ride was extended to loop round the next station, there would need
to be an evacuation route through that station. The potential walk through
the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station.

They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two
extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run
at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at
enthusiasts, not families.
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 09:33:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
<1103563737.542539283.495032.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
"Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is
restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a
confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface."
If the ride was extended to loop round the next station,
Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension.
Post by Recliner
there would need to be an evacuation route through that station.
Every station will have some kind of access to ground level.
Post by Recliner
The potential walk through
the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station.
They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two
extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run
at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at
enthusiasts, not families.
The AV shows aren't aimed at enthusiasts, so probably just a longer ride
would be sufficient.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-03-12 09:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
ember.org>, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
"Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is
restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a
confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface."
If the ride was extended to loop round the next station,
Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension.
Post by Recliner
there would need to be an evacuation route through that station.
Every station will have some kind of access to ground level.
They did when they were active stations on Mail Rail. And even then, they
were used by the workers on the railway, and probably emerged inside the
mail sorting area above. That may be owned by someone else now, and the
route to the tunnel sealed off.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The potential walk through
the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station.
They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two
extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run
at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at
enthusiasts, not families.
The AV shows aren't aimed at enthusiasts, so probably just a longer ride
would be sufficient.
The museum people who run Mail Rail probably wouldn't see it that way.
Roland Perry
2018-03-12 10:16:56 UTC
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<85871062.542540655.055850.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septem
ber.org>, at 09:58:59 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension.
Post by Recliner
there would need to be an evacuation route through that station.
Every station will have some kind of access to ground level.
They did when they were active stations on Mail Rail. And even then, they
were used by the workers on the railway, and probably emerged inside the
mail sorting area above. That may be owned by someone else now, and the
route to the tunnel sealed off.
Or it may not. (Plus, it's commonplace for closed tunnels to maintain an
inspection access, even when the building on the surface has been
re-purposed).
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
The potential walk through
the tunnel would also be much longer, and uphill, to one or other station.
They'd probably also feel obliged to set up additional AV shows on the two
extra platforms traversed. The much longer ride would probably only be run
at less busy times, at a significantly higher price, and aimed at
enthusiasts, not families.
The AV shows aren't aimed at enthusiasts, so probably just a longer ride
would be sufficient.
The museum people who run Mail Rail probably wouldn't see it that way.
Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension.
--
Roland Perry
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 13:28:34 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
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ber.org>, at 09:58:59 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension.
Post by Recliner
there would need to be an evacuation route through that station.
Every station will have some kind of access to ground level.
They did when they were active stations on Mail Rail. And even then, they
were used by the workers on the railway, and probably emerged inside the
mail sorting area above. That may be owned by someone else now, and the
route to the tunnel sealed off.
Or it may not. (Plus, it's commonplace for closed tunnels to maintain an
inspection access, even when the building on the surface has been
re-purposed).
I believe most of them are sealed off. The inspection access is via Mount
Pleasant...


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 13:28:34 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
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ember.org>, at 09:29:30 on Mon, 12 Mar 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
"Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is
restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a
confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface."
If the ride was extended to loop round the next station,
Just so you know, I'm not advocating an extension.
But that's what was being discussed in the post you replied to.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
there would need to be an evacuation route through that station.
Every station will have some kind of access to ground level.
They used to have, obviously, but I believe that most are now blocked off.


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2018-03-12 13:28:33 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by Recliner
- They told me that the rest of the railway is still owned and
maintained by the Royal Mail. There is at least the theoretical
possibility of the museum trains doing a longer circuit, perhaps to
the next station, but there appear to be no current plans for such an
expansion. It would obviously need Royal Mail's agreement, and there
would be a significant costs. The current trains may not have the
battery capacity for the extra distances involved.
Problems include lack of emergency exits.
"Evacuation requirements mean that access to the Mail Rail train ride is
restricted to those who are able to walk unaided on uneven terrain, in a
confined space for up to 100m before climbing 70 steps to the surface."
Going further into the tunnels would mean a walk back to Mount Pleasant for
emergency access. The next station in either direction is 1.4km...


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Basil Jet
2018-03-15 05:04:33 UTC
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- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
The words "M A I L R A I L" high up are lit beautifully at 2am though.
Recliner
2018-03-15 10:07:29 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
- The museum entrance is very discreet, and it's easy to walk right
past it. They've had to put a little sign on the pavement to identify
it.
The words "M A I L R A I L" high up are lit beautifully at 2am though.
Indeed, but not visible from the pavement outside the door. It's probably
much more easily spotted from the ITN building.

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