Discussion:
a new bus announcement
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martin
2018-01-12 11:21:53 UTC
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travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
us everything on buses, just as the door closed:
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
--
Martin
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-12 12:10:52 UTC
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 11:21:53 +0000
Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
A bit like on the tube where the platform guy announces that the doors are
closing - after they've started closing.
Paul Corfield
2018-01-12 12:23:40 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
--
Martin
It is an attempt to reduce injuries and accidents. The Mayor has imposed a requirement on TfL to reduce death and injuries on the bus network. A significant element of accidents are trips, slips and falls on moving buses. I haven't heard it yet but it was only introduced this morning. Seems to be going down like a lead balloon on social media!

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/sshrp-20171122-item10-reducing-injuries-across-tfl.pdf
sets out some of the initiatives including this new announcement.
--
Paul C
via Google
Paul Corfield
2018-01-12 12:28:00 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
--
Martin
Also see

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/sshrp-20170928-item09-bus-safety-programme.pdf

and

https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/documents/s66894/Responses%20to%20bus%20reports%20Appendix%201%20-%20Mayors%20response%20on%20bus%20safety.pdf

A hell of a lot of effort and money is being put into this. If you think announcements are bad wait until the driver is not really in charge of the bus because a computer is talking to a speed limit map and controlling the speed.
--
Paul C
via Google
Tim Woodall
2018-01-12 12:37:24 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
I've heard it - and I think it's a good idea - but the bus drivers start
too soon. Perhaps there should be a pause and beep - and the driver only
starts on the beep.

When lots of people are getting on you can have no idea when exactly the
bus will start to move, especially if you are on the stairs or walking
along the top deck to a seat.

Getting off you can wait for the bus to stop before using the stairs.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-12 13:48:20 UTC
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:37:24 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
I've heard it - and I think it's a good idea - but the bus drivers start
too soon. Perhaps there should be a pause and beep - and the driver only
starts on the beep.
When lots of people are getting on you can have no idea when exactly the
bus will start to move, especially if you are on the stairs or walking
along the top deck to a seat.
I was under the impression that seeing how many people they can make fall
back down the stairs on moving off was an unofficial sport amongst london
bus drivers.
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2018-01-12 14:06:58 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Tim Woodall
When lots of people are getting on you can have no idea when exactly the
bus will start to move, especially if you are on the stairs or walking
along the top deck to a seat.
I was under the impression that seeing how many people they can make fall
back down the stairs on moving off was an unofficial sport amongst london
bus drivers.
Reminds me of this track i have on a CD.




G.Harman
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-01-12 14:28:33 UTC
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 14:06:58 +0000
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Tim Woodall
When lots of people are getting on you can have no idea when exactly the
bus will start to move, especially if you are on the stairs or walking
along the top deck to a seat.
I was under the impression that seeing how many people they can make fall
back down the stairs on moving off was an unofficial sport amongst london
bus drivers.
Reminds me of this track i have on a CD.
http://youtu.be/AobZe6iT9kY
Quite funny :)
Robin
2018-01-12 13:27:33 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
Wait until they start pushing hard the message to stay in your seat
until the bus comes to a complete stop. (I don't know if TfL plans that
but I met in somewhere.) It makes sense to reduce injuries but I shudder
to think what it'd do to dwell times in London if people obeyed.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-01-12 23:16:46 UTC
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Post by Robin
Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
Wait until they start pushing hard the message to stay in your seat
until the bus comes to a complete stop. (I don't know if TfL plans
that but I met in somewhere.) It makes sense to reduce injuries but I
shudder to think what it'd do to dwell times in London if people
The nanny state rules!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
MikeS
2018-01-12 21:10:16 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
In theory it is a useful addition to safety but I was on three such
buses today and the passenger reaction was mostly amusement (so far) or
annoyance.

In practice it seems to be tripped at all the wrong places and seldom at
the right moment. From the way it comes on frequently while the bus is
moving normally it must be an automatic system rather than a driver
switch. Seems strange that TfL did not test it properly before going public.
tim...
2018-01-13 12:21:10 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
In theory it is a useful addition to safety but I was on three such buses
today and the passenger reaction was mostly amusement (so far) or
annoyance.
In practice it seems to be tripped at all the wrong places and seldom at
the right moment. From the way it comes on frequently while the bus is
moving normally it must be an automatic system rather than a driver
switch. Seems strange that TfL did not test it properly before going public.
par for the course

(I refer the honorable gentleman to the London Ambulance Service Upgrade
cock-up)

tim
Graham Murray
2018-01-12 21:38:45 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
It is not really that new. "Hold on tight"
<ding><ding> was1[1] a standard announcement by conductors.

[1] Along with "Any more fares, please"
DRH
2018-01-14 16:58:02 UTC
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Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
--
Martin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42681106

One can appreciate TfL's desire to reduce 'surface transport' passenger accidents after publication of the safety report in July last year.

I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination announcement, not after.

DRH
Mike Roberts
2018-01-14 17:30:19 UTC
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Post by DRH
Post by martin
travelling on a 37 this morning, one of their new stock
I was rather surprised to be told by the lady who tells
"please hold on the bus is about to move" I thought most
bus passengers understood that or is it not obvious enough
since we havent quite perfected teleportation yet.
--
Martin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42681106
One can appreciate TfL's desire to reduce 'surface transport' passenger accidents after publication of the safety report in July last year.
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination announcement, not after.
DRH
The 142 I used yesterday made the announcement and then sat for about 10
seconds before moving off
MikeR
Robin
2018-01-14 17:40:55 UTC
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Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
DRH
2018-01-14 18:06:36 UTC
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Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Maybe the messages could be combined.
Richard J.
2018-01-14 19:20:33 UTC
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Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case someone's got the wrong route.

According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend at a bus stop." That's crazy, because it means that half the messages will be given too late. The only sensible way to time the message is to link it to the closing of the front door. But there isn't really time to get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the bus. Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of "Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
DRH
2018-01-14 20:25:02 UTC
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Post by Richard J.
Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case someone's got the wrong route.
According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend at a bus stop." That's crazy, because it means that half the messages will be given too late. The only sensible way to time the message is to link it to the closing of the front door. But there isn't really time to get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the bus. Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of "Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
Maybe transfer the "This is a number X bus going to Y" to the display screens inside the bus and just have the audible safety announcement.

In my limited experience London bus driving standards seem reasonably high.
Recliner
2018-01-14 20:35:31 UTC
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Post by Richard J.
Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started
moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the
route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case
someone's got the wrong route.
According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that
sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend
at a bus stop." That's crazy, because it means that half the messages
will be given too late. The only sensible way to time the message is to
link it to the closing of the front door. But there isn't really time to
get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the
bus. Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of
"Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
The front doors don't open at every stop. Nor do the rear doors. But if
the front doors didn't open, presumably nobody boarded, and the annoying
announcement won't need to be played.
Michael R N Dolbear
2018-01-14 20:42:36 UTC
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Post by Recliner
The front doors don't open at every stop. Nor do the rear doors. But if
the front doors didn't open, presumably nobody boarded, and the annoying
announcement won't need to be played.

I have observed that the route/destination announcement is indeed omitted if
the entrance doors are not opened.

But TfL do operate some single doored (1-D) buses.
--
Mike D
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 11:01:33 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Richard J.
Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started
moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the
route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case
someone's got the wrong route.
According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that
sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend
at a bus stop." That's crazy, because it means that half the messages
will be given too late. The only sensible way to time the message is to
link it to the closing of the front door. But there isn't really time to
get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the
bus. Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of
"Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
The front doors don't open at every stop. Nor do the rear doors. But if
the front doors didn't open, presumably nobody boarded, and the annoying
announcement won't need to be played.
What about playing it when the bus was at a bus stop (GPS? or any of
the doors operatiing) and then the indicator was put on by the driver?
Robin
2018-01-15 11:14:47 UTC
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Post by Richard J.
Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started
moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the
route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case
someone's got the wrong route.
According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that
sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend
at a bus stop."  That's crazy, because it means that half the messages
will be given too late.  The only sensible way to time the message is to
link it to the closing of the front door.  But there isn't really
time to
get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the
bus.  Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of
"Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
The front doors don't open at every stop.  Nor do the rear doors. But if
the front doors didn't open, presumably nobody boarded, and the annoying
announcement won't need to be played.
What about playing it when the bus was at a bus stop (GPS?  or any of
the doors operatiing) and then the indicator was put on by the driver?
Possible disbenefit is that if the message plays while people are still
getting off the bus then you make them nervous/hurried, increasing the
number of injuries from their falls etc.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Someone Somewhere
2018-01-15 11:24:22 UTC
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Post by Robin
Post by Richard J.
Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started
moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the
route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case
someone's got the wrong route.
According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that
sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend
at a bus stop."  That's crazy, because it means that half the messages
will be given too late.  The only sensible way to time the message is to
link it to the closing of the front door.  But there isn't really
time to
get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the
bus.  Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of
"Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
The front doors don't open at every stop.  Nor do the rear doors. But if
the front doors didn't open, presumably nobody boarded, and the annoying
announcement won't need to be played.
What about playing it when the bus was at a bus stop (GPS?  or any of
the doors operating) and then the indicator was put on by the driver?
Possible disbenefit is that if the message plays while people are still
getting off the bus then you make them nervous/hurried, increasing the
number of injuries from their falls etc.
The driver shouldn't have put on his indicator until he is ready to move
off surely?

But yes, I agree with that. Also, once you start taking responsibility
for warning passengers, does that not mean you are assuming liability so
if the message is not played or played inappropriately passengers could
sue because they weren't warned as they reasonably could have been
expected to be?
Robin
2018-01-15 11:46:01 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Robin
What about playing it when the bus was at a bus stop (GPS?  or any of
the doors operating) and then the indicator was put on by the driver?
Possible disbenefit is that if the message plays while people are
still getting off the bus then you make them nervous/hurried,
increasing the number of injuries from their falls etc.
The driver shouldn't have put on his indicator until he is ready to move
off surely?
Sorry, yes, I misunderstood your proposition.
Post by Someone Somewhere
But yes, I agree with that.  Also, once you start taking responsibility
for warning passengers, does that not mean you are assuming liability so
if the message is not played or played inappropriately passengers could
sue because they weren't warned as they reasonably could have been
expected to be?
:)
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Recliner
2018-01-25 10:07:07 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Recliner
Post by Richard J.
Post by Robin
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started
moving before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the
route/destination announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus are much less
likely to be able to get off before the next stop?
Serve them right. We don't want the bus held up at every stop in case
someone's got the wrong route.
According to the BBC "The alert is currently triggered by a computer that
sends out the message after the average amount of time a bus would spend
at a bus stop." That's crazy, because it means that half the messages
will be given too late. The only sensible way to time the message is to
link it to the closing of the front door. But there isn't really time to
get this 9-word message completed before the driver starts to move the
bus. Perhaps the message should be shortened to the conductors' cry of
"Hold tight" in the old days, as in "Hold tight" ding-ding!
The front doors don't open at every stop. Nor do the rear doors. But if
the front doors didn't open, presumably nobody boarded, and the annoying
announcement won't need to be played.
What about playing it when the bus was at a bus stop (GPS? or any of
the doors operatiing) and then the indicator was put on by the driver?
Well, they are responding to the criticism:
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DUUZdbcXUAA_NxA?format=jpg&name=large>

So, more sensible new message, only played when the front doors have been
opened, and with the five sec delay already removed.

michael adams
2018-01-14 19:26:12 UTC
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Post by DRH
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving
before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination
announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus
What wrong bus ? On the very infrequent ocasions I use buses
the bus I use is the only bus on that particular route for around
80% of the distance. And only ever terminate at one destination
at either end.

In any case the announcements are only made in English
which is hardly a help to the tourists for whom presumably
such announcemennts would be of most use. Same as
on the underground.

But then again because TfL "can" do something at little or no
extra cost which "may" "enhance the travelling experience
of say 0.5% of their "customers" - in this case amnesiacs
subject to panic attacks then its odds-on they "will" do it.

Judging by my limited experience at least, standards of driving on buses
vary greatly but I'm not sure whether or not these have deteriorated
down the years. There still seem to be a minority of drivers capable of
anticipating hazards and not being solely reliant on their brakes
even in busy enironments but whether such skills are rewarded
in any way i don't know.


michael adams

...
Robin
2018-01-14 20:40:30 UTC
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Post by michael adams
Post by DRH
Post by DRH
I travelled on about seven buses yesterday and every one had started moving
before the announcement chimed in. Maybe it needs to come before the route/destination
announcement, not after.
Which would mean people who have got on the wrong bus
What wrong bus ? On the very infrequent ocasions I use buses
the bus I use is the only bus on that particular route for around
80% of the distance. And only ever terminate at one destination
at either end.
Try inner London. In the past week alone I have been on 3 buses where
people were either on the wrong bus or in the wrong direction. From
stops with an average of 3 routes with very different destinations.

But I would support the gathering of statistically significant data on
such things to allow a rational decision.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
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