Discussion:
When Oyster touch-ins aren't touch-ins
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David Cantrell
2017-10-06 11:43:34 UTC
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As is normal, I made my monthly refund claim a few days ago for Oyster
cock-ups. On Tuesday I entered Thornton Heath station and picked up the
refund at the gate-line. I can see it on my journey history:

18:08 Oyster helpline refund, Thornton Heath [National Rail]

then I got on a train, and touched out at the other end:

???? - 18:39 [No touch-in] to Victoria (platforms 9-19) [National Rail]

so I managed to both touch in (and pick up the refund) and not touch in
at the same time. That's pretty impressively messed up.
--
David Cantrell
Tim Woodall
2017-10-06 16:58:32 UTC
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Post by David Cantrell
As is normal, I made my monthly refund claim a few days ago for Oyster
cock-ups. On Tuesday I entered Thornton Heath station and picked up the
18:08 Oyster helpline refund, Thornton Heath [National Rail]
???? - 18:39 [No touch-in] to Victoria (platforms 9-19) [National Rail]
so I managed to both touch in (and pick up the refund) and not touch in
at the same time. That's pretty impressively messed up.
I've seen something similar "touching in and opening the gate" but not
touching in on oyster happen before - which showed up when a maximum
fare was charged on exit. For that one it was the very first time the
card had been used - and I was watching the person who was touching in
and touching out to make sure they did it all correctly so I know they
didn't enter on someone else's card by accident.

I've had problems where journeys have been "joined together" leading to
two unresolved journeys - Shorditch High Street -> Whitechapel then
W->SHS got turned into SHS->W W(continue)->SHS which got turned into
SHS->[no touch out] [no touch in]->SHS (and, IIRC cost something like
£15). I have absolutely no idea how a touch out followed by a touch in
could be joined together at Whitechapel - they were only about 20
minutes apart but even so it shouldn't happen.

I've been bitten by this at other places too - Liverpool Street ->
Oxford Circus and back when I was only at OC for a few minutes. I don't
know why Oyster can't be intelligent about that - why it invents two
unresolved journeys instead of having two resolved journeys is beyond
me (or even one journey A->A).

I've had a couple of other times over the years where I suspect a touch
in or touch out has opened the barrier without registering but by the
time I find out about the problem I cannot be 100% certain that
something else didn't go wrong without me noticing - in particular, when
you're entering/leaving during the rush hour it's so easy to exit on
someone elses card or let someone exit on your own card when the person
in front's touch doesn't work and the person behind is already reaching
to touch the pad although in other cases when the touch doesn't work
the person for whom it failed has to move right back from the gate
before they will work again. No idea why there's this inconsistency.

Tim.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-09 08:52:09 UTC
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:32 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Tim Woodall
Oxford Circus and back when I was only at OC for a few minutes. I don't
know why Oyster can't be intelligent about that - why it invents two
If the Oyster software was developed in the same way as a lot of it is in the
UK these days - ie by some bargain basement bunch of halfwits in Bombangalore
who'd have trouble hacking their way out of a wet paper bag - then we should be
grateful it works at all frankly.
tim...
2017-10-09 10:55:42 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 6 Oct 2017 16:58:32 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Tim Woodall
Oxford Circus and back when I was only at OC for a few minutes. I don't
know why Oyster can't be intelligent about that - why it invents two
If the Oyster software was developed in the same way as a lot of it is in the
UK these days - ie by some bargain basement bunch of halfwits in Bombangalore
who'd have trouble hacking their way out of a wet paper bag - then we should be
grateful it works at all frankly.
It's not though

It's developed in the UK (at least it was the last time I had any dealing
with the company concerned)

tim

Tony Dragon
2017-10-06 19:21:03 UTC
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Post by David Cantrell
As is normal, I made my monthly refund claim a few days ago for Oyster
cock-ups. On Tuesday I entered Thornton Heath station and picked up the
18:08 Oyster helpline refund, Thornton Heath [National Rail]
???? - 18:39 [No touch-in] to Victoria (platforms 9-19) [National Rail]
so I managed to both touch in (and pick up the refund) and not touch in
at the same time. That's pretty impressively messed up.
I had it happen a year or two ago at Surbiton.
I touched in my auto top up happened, the gates opened but as I found
out later no journey start.
The way I found out was during a ticket inspection on the train, they
wanted me to pay a penalty fare, I explained the situation & refused.
I was then told that if I did not pay the penalty then the police would
be called, I told them to bring it on.
During the argument the senior inspector came over and asked what
happened, he agreed that I was right and pulled the other inspector over
for 'a quite word'.

I was given a reference number and told to quote it when I contacted TFL.

Got the correction with no problem.

---
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r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-07 00:08:21 UTC
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Post by Tony Dragon
Post by David Cantrell
As is normal, I made my monthly refund claim a few days ago for Oyster
cock-ups. On Tuesday I entered Thornton Heath station and picked up the
18:08 Oyster helpline refund, Thornton Heath [National Rail]
???? - 18:39 [No touch-in] to Victoria (platforms 9-19)
[National Rail]
so I managed to both touch in (and pick up the refund) and not touch in
at the same time. That's pretty impressively messed up.
I had it happen a year or two ago at Surbiton.
I touched in my auto top up happened, the gates opened but as I found
out later no journey start.
The way I found out was during a ticket inspection on the train, they
wanted me to pay a penalty fare, I explained the situation & refused.
I was then told that if I did not pay the penalty then the police
would be called, I told them to bring it on.
During the argument the senior inspector came over and asked what
happened, he agreed that I was right and pulled the other inspector
over for 'a quite word'.
I was given a reference number and told to quote it when I contacted TFL.
Got the correction with no problem.
My wife and I both had this problem at Heathrow T5 on a trip to Germany, one
on exit on the way out, the other on entry on the way back. In each case the
gate opened but the touch wasn't registered, leading to maximum fares. We
got the money back.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
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