Discussion:
Oxford to London commute
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GeorgeK
2017-10-10 11:32:45 UTC
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Hi all,

I am new in here and I would like your opinion and help. I found a jo
in London while my wife got a position in Oxford and we were thinking o
living in Oxford as it is slightly cheaper and I would commute daily t
London. By reading other threads it seems that the most convenient wa
is to take the train but the annual ticket is ridiculously expensiv
(~5000£ !!!!!). The buses is another option but it would also mean tha
I will be spending at least 3h commuting. I do have a car and I wa
wondering if it is worth driving to 3rd or 4th zone in London to avoi
congestion charges, park at a station and then use the underground t
get to zone 1. Would this be a good idea? Any other reccomendations


--
GeorgeK
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-10 12:51:39 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:32:45 +0100
Post by GeorgeK
Hi all,
I am new in here and I would like your opinion and help. I found a job
in London while my wife got a position in Oxford and we were thinking of
living in Oxford as it is slightly cheaper and I would commute daily to
London. By reading other threads it seems that the most convenient way
is to take the train but the annual ticket is ridiculously expensive
(~5000£ !!!!!). The buses is another option but it would also mean that
I will be spending at least 3h commuting. I do have a car and I was
wondering if it is worth driving to 3rd or 4th zone in London to avoid
congestion charges, park at a station and then use the underground to
get to zone 1. Would this be a good idea? Any other reccomendations?
The underground station car parks arn't free and you'll get stuck in jams on
the M40 anyway. Whatever you do either you or your wife are in for a very
expensive and/or long commute. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to check
all this before you came here.
Chris
2017-10-10 13:28:38 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The underground station car parks arn't free and you'll get stuck in jams on
the M40 anyway. Whatever you do either you or your wife are in for a very
expensive and/or long commute. Perhaps it would have been a good idea to check
all this before you came here.
Agreed. A number also drive out to the M40 junction & park there, where the London coaches call. But your coach or drive to outer zones will take the same time as you suggest, and possibly more than 3 hours in total. That's why the vast majority take the train and stomach the price.
Roland Perry
2017-10-10 13:25:36 UTC
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Post by GeorgeK
I am new in here and I would like your opinion and help. I found a job
in London while my wife got a position in Oxford and we were thinking of
living in Oxford as it is slightly cheaper and I would commute daily to
London. By reading other threads it seems that the most convenient way
is to take the train but the annual ticket is ridiculously expensive
(~5000£ !!!!!). The buses is another option but it would also mean that
I will be spending at least 3h commuting. I do have a car and I was
wondering if it is worth driving to 3rd or 4th zone in London to avoid
congestion charges, park at a station and then use the underground to
get to zone 1. Would this be a good idea? Any other reccomendations?
I've been in exactly the same situation (give or take) and you need to
think about several things:

Is the "Oxford night life" something you aspire to (as a potential local
resident), or is that irrelevant.

Commuting the last two miles into Oxford (depending on the exact
location of your wife's employment) is by far the most challenging
exercise here.

When I had to travel regularly from east Oxfordshire to London, the most
sustainable routing was M40/A40 to Ickenham, park, and get the tube.
Next best perhaps transfer at Rickmansworth.

Does your wife drive?

Living in (or using the P&R at) Headington [which I don't regard as "in
Oxford"], might be a useful compromise.

There are many other villages in east Oxfordshire which will have
cheaper housing and viable railheads to London and busheads[1] to
Oxford.

It might even be cheaper to leapfrog Oxford and consider living
somewhere like Didcot and both commute the different distances
eastwards. When I was looking at this (admittedly some time ago) I
favoured Swindon, and colleagues were looking at Hungerford.

[1] Is that even a word.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2017-10-10 14:53:11 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
When I had to travel regularly from east Oxfordshire to London, the most
sustainable routing was M40/A40 to Ickenham, park, and get the tube.
Next best perhaps transfer at Rickmansworth.
Not Hillingdon?
GeorgeK
2017-10-10 16:30:57 UTC
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Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willin
to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least th
bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested i
living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shoppin
street, etc).

The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to b
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, i
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is th
closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.

When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn'
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would b
more convenient though


--
GeorgeK
Roland Perry
2017-10-11 09:45:59 UTC
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When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be
more convenient though?
Cheaper housing.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-13 01:32:29 UTC
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Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willing
to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least the
bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested in
living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shopping
street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the
closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be
more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only second to
Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy cycle commute.
My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job 2.5-3 miles away as I
did when working even though I drive.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Someone Somewhere
2017-10-13 06:33:29 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are willing
to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at least the
bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly interested in
living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants, bars, shopping
street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the
closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be
more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only second to
Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy cycle commute.
My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job 2.5-3 miles away as I
did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the weather
is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.

I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is less
than clement.

Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g. "February")
you're actually making things worse, not better.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-13 13:37:43 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by GeorgeK
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are
willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at
least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly
interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants,
bars, shopping street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the
closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be
more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only
second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy
cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job
2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of
the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work.
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.

Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet
days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-13 13:46:54 UTC
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 08:37:43 -0500
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of
the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work.
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
When it rains cyclicts get wet regardless of gear. When its hot they stink and
if there are no showers at work then its unpleasent for everyone else who has
to work with them. Also cycling is no use if you're unwell, the area is hilly,
you have something larger than a rucksack to carry or your commute is more
than about 10 miles (unless you're really fit).
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet
days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
Cambridge is relatively small town with no hills, narrow streets many of which
are bus only and lots of students who cycle because they probably only live
a mile or 2 from the uni and would have nowhere to park a car anyway. Hardly
representative of the rest of the UK.
Roland Perry
2017-10-13 13:54:59 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of
the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work.
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me.
One of the driest parts of the country.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Traffic is
catastrophically
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
worse on wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in
travel times.
As long as you don't mind turning up at work drenched.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-13 17:55:57 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10%
of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to
work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the
time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me.
One of the driest parts of the country.
It's the times of day that are important. The tendency not to rain at
commuting times is national. But we are talking about Oxford, not
Manchester. It isn't much wetter than Cambridge.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Traffic is
catastrophically
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
worse on wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in
travel times.
As long as you don't mind turning up at work drenched.
Do you cycle to work? How many times has that happened to you? In over 25
years working for Pye/Philips/Simoco it happened to me less often than the
number of fingers on one hand. And that's in either direction. On the way
home, recovery is simple anyway.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Robin
2017-10-13 14:02:55 UTC
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On 13/10/2017 14:37, ***@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:
<snip>
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of
the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work.
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet
days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
I am unclear.

Are you arguing that Someone Somewhere was:

a) wrong in his observation that the number of commuting cyclists falls
when the weather is bad or

b) wrong about the consequences for other modes of transport - eg
because the missing cyclists work from home when the weather is bad?

Or is it something else entirely?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-13 17:55:58 UTC
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Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though
10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late
to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the
time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on
wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
I am unclear.
a) wrong in his observation that the number of commuting cyclists
falls when the weather is bad or
b) wrong about the consequences for other modes of transport - eg
because the missing cyclists work from home when the weather is bad?
Or is it something else entirely?
That the effect on cycling is surprisingly is marginal. Traffic is mainly
worse because it is driving slower due the the adverse driving conditions.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Robin
2017-10-13 19:58:54 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Robin
<snip>
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though
10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late
to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the
time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on
wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
I am unclear.
a) wrong in his observation that the number of commuting cyclists
falls when the weather is bad or
b) wrong about the consequences for other modes of transport - eg
because the missing cyclists work from home when the weather is bad?
Or is it something else entirely?
That the effect on cycling is surprisingly is marginal. Traffic is mainly
worse because it is driving slower due the the adverse driving conditions.
So it's (a) - ie you are disagreeing with Someone's observation about
the variation in the number of cycling commuters with weather.

I have no idea which of you are right. But may I ask if your "marginal"
comes from your personal observations of CS1 or CS2 etc, or from TfL
figures, or what?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Someone Somewhere
2017-10-13 14:04:54 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
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Post by GeorgeK
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are
willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at
least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly
interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants,
bars, shopping street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the
closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be
more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only
second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy
cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job
2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of
the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work.
No it's not - it's observational that during poor weather (or winter)
the number of cyclists reduces dramatically. Do you dispute this?
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
That's not the point, the point is cyclists seem fickle about the
weather but presumably will still make their journey which presumably
will be via tube / trian / taxi / uber / car.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on wet
days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
That may well be, but a) this is still uk.transport.london however many
times you wish to bring Cambridge into it and b) I suggest that when
introducing segregated cycle lanes that reduce overall throughput of
people (excepting cyclists) then this needs to be taken into account.

I'm not arguing that cyclists shouldn't have safe routes to follow, or
similar, just that cyclists have differences that aren't shared by other
modes of transport which means they don't use the road capacity with the
uniformity of other users.

Similarly it could be fairly argued that on days of bus strikes,
penalties for other vehicles using bus lanes should be removed, but such
events happen far less frequently than inclement weather (probably less
than 0.1%).

Again, I'm not arguing that such measures are practical - they probably
aren't (reasonably) - just that such a modal shift is not as simplistic
is as often presented (creating safe, segregated cycle lanes will mean
people shift to bikes and overall journey times will decrease and not
increase)
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-13 17:55:58 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by GeorgeK
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are
willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take
at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly
interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants,
bars, shopping street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is
the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would
be more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only
second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an
easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her
job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though
10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late
to work.
No it's not - it's observational that during poor weather (or winter)
the number of cyclists reduces dramatically. Do you dispute this?
Have you got the traffic counts? There appears to be much more traffic.
While a bit of that is cyclists using their cars but the main effect is
because cars are driving slower due to the conditions.
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
That's not the point, the point is cyclists seem fickle about the
weather but presumably will still make their journey which presumably
will be via tube / trian / taxi / uber / car.
Ones like contributors to this thread maybe. How many of you ever cycle?
Even since I retired I cycle regularly in central London. Sometimes it rains
too. Fortunately reality is becoming more apparent in places where cycling
is properly supported.
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Look at Cambridge commuting if you don't believe me. Traffic is worse on
wet days but that makes cycling even more advantageous in travel times.
That may well be, but a) this is still uk.transport.london however
many times you wish to bring Cambridge into it and b) I suggest that
when introducing segregated cycle lanes that reduce overall
throughput of people (excepting cyclists) then this needs to be taken
into account.
I'm not arguing that cyclists shouldn't have safe routes to follow,
or similar, just that cyclists have differences that aren't shared by
other modes of transport which means they don't use the road capacity
with the uniformity of other users.
Similarly it could be fairly argued that on days of bus strikes,
penalties for other vehicles using bus lanes should be removed, but
such events happen far less frequently than inclement weather
(probably less than 0.1%).
Again, I'm not arguing that such measures are practical - they
probably aren't (reasonably) - just that such a modal shift is not as
simplistic is as often presented (creating safe, segregated cycle
lanes will mean people shift to bikes and overall journey times will
decrease and not increase)
I worked in London for nearly a decade and cycled a lot between westminster
and main line railway stations as well as between my Cambridge home and the
station. I know perfectly well what the advantages of cycling are, as well
the the largely imagined issued raised here. Cycling meant shorter commutes
and a predictability of journey times just not available by car or tube. So
when I left the office I knew with far greater confidence which train I
would catch than when I took the tube. In the mornings after I stayed at my
parents' in Putney, I could cycle in in much the same time as taking the
tube, using low traffic and car-free routes (rather than a cycle
super-highway composed mainly of paint), and, unlike on the tube, I got a
seat.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Someone Somewhere
2017-10-14 07:37:30 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by GeorgeK
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are
willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take
at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly
interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants,
bars, shopping street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is
the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would
be more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only
second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an
easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her
job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though
10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late
to work.
No it's not - it's observational that during poor weather (or winter)
the number of cyclists reduces dramatically. Do you dispute this?
Have you got the traffic counts? There appears to be much more traffic.
While a bit of that is cyclists using their cars but the main effect is
because cars are driving slower due to the conditions.
I mentioned a reduction in cyclists - not necessarily an increase in
cars - we have other modes of transport in London where people have
observed an increase in passengers during inclement weather.

Believe me, you don't want to go down the route of insisting I cite
evidence, otherwise you may find yourself asked for similar on each and
every contentious point you ever make.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
That's not the point, the point is cyclists seem fickle about the
weather but presumably will still make their journey which presumably
will be via tube / trian / taxi / uber / car.
Ones like contributors to this thread maybe. How many of you ever cycle?
Even since I retired I cycle regularly in central London. Sometimes it rains
too. Fortunately reality is becoming more apparent in places where cycling
is properly supported.
Does it matter who cycles or not? I work from home overlooking CS3
between Tower Hill and Canary Wharf. It is absolutely obvious that the
number of cyclists drops during bad weather.

You appear to be so blinkered about cycling to the point of implying I
am lying about what I see - is that really your intention?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-15 06:41:27 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Does it matter who cycles or not? I work from home overlooking CS3
between Tower Hill and Canary Wharf. It is absolutely obvious that
the number of cyclists drops during bad weather.
You appear to be so blinkered about cycling to the point of implying
I am lying about what I see - is that really your intention?
You are so blinkered about cycling that you say it isn't a viable means of
transport when it's raining, despite telling us there are still lots of
cyclists when it rains, even if not as many as when it's dry. THAT'S what I
call irrational anti-cyclist prejudice.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-10-15 07:52:48 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Does it matter who cycles or not? I work from home overlooking CS3
between Tower Hill and Canary Wharf. It is absolutely obvious that
the number of cyclists drops during bad weather.
You appear to be so blinkered about cycling to the point of implying
I am lying about what I see - is that really your intention?
You are so blinkered about cycling that you say it isn't a viable means of
transport when it's raining, despite telling us there are still lots of
cyclists when it rains, even if not as many as when it's dry. THAT'S what I
call irrational anti-cyclist prejudice.
It's not a hard cut-off when the rain reaches a specific intensity.
People make a range of decisions based on their own individual
circumstances. What matters is that rain *does* cause contingency plans
to kick in for many people, in a way it doesn't so much, if they are
using other forms of transport.

Thus cycling is *not* a one-size-fits-all solution.
--
Roland Perry
Robin
2017-10-15 09:13:57 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Does it matter who cycles or not? I work from home overlooking CS3
between Tower Hill and Canary Wharf. It is absolutely obvious that
the number of cyclists drops during bad weather.
You appear to be so blinkered about cycling to the point of implying
I am lying about what I see - is that really your intention?
You are so blinkered about cycling that you say it isn't a viable means of
transport when it's raining, despite telling us there are still lots of
cyclists when it rains, even if not as many as when it's dry. THAT'S what I
call irrational anti-cyclist prejudice.
I did not see anything which amounted to a statement that cycling "isn't
a viable means of transport when it's raining".

Would you argue that my observation that the number of people in London
who walk to work falls when it rains shows my irrational,
anti-pedestrian prejudice?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Mark
2017-10-13 23:50:49 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by GeorgeK
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are
willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take at
least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly
interested in living near a city with certain amenities (restaurants,
bars, shopping street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to be
less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies, it
seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth) is the
closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot would be
more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only
second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an easy
cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to her job
2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even though 10% of
the time traffic will be so bad that you will be seriously late to work.
Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time well under 10% of the time. It
isn't that hard to get good cycling raingear either.
Look at Cambridge
Oh, do we really have to? Is there an unwritten law that every thread
on this newsgroup will get to Cambridge or business class air travel eventually?

The poor (well, not poor if considering commuting to London from there) original
poster was asking about travel to and from Oxford, not Cambridge.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-14 00:26:31 UTC
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On Friday, 13 October 2017 14:37:45 UTC+1,
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by GeorgeK
Thank you all for your replies. My wife doesn't drive but we are
willing to live on the suburbs of Oxford provided that she can take
at least the bus to work which is at the city center. We are mainly
interested in living near a city with certain amenities
(restaurants, bars, shopping street, etc).
The idea of staying at Headington doesn't sound bad as it seems to
be less than 30min from the city center by bus. From your replies,
it seems that the 6th zone (Ickenham, Hillington or Rickmansworth)
is the closest I can get by car to London before being stuck in the
jam.
When I checked the commute from Didcot to London by train it wasn't
faster (or cheaper) compared to Oxford. You reckon that Didcot
would be more convenient though?
Has you wife actually looked at the cycling option? Oxford is only
second to Cambridge for UK cycle commuting and up to 5 miles is an
easy cycle commute. My wife doesn't drive and regularly cycles to
her job 2.5-3 miles away as I did when working even though I drive.
The problem with relying on cyclng is that it's lovely when the
weather is, and when it isn't it's bloody horrible.
I live on what is allegedly one of the busiest cycle routes in the UK
and it's incredibly noticeable how usage drops when the weather is
less than clement.
Because of this I'd seriously argue that a modal shift to cycling is
impossible - you still have to dimension the transport infrastructure
for those bad days, and if you've just taken a chunk out of it to
accomodate the cycle lane then for periods of the year (e.g.
"February") you're actually making things worse, not better.
Sorry, but that is as ridiculous as saying you will drive even
though 10% of the time traffic will be so bad that you will be
seriously late to work. Non-trivial rain occurs as commuter time
well under 10% of the time. It isn't that hard to get good cycling
raingear either.
Look at Cambridge
Oh, do we really have to? Is there an unwritten law that every thread
on this newsgroup will get to Cambridge or business class air travel eventually?
The poor (well, not poor if considering commuting to London from there)
original poster was asking about travel to and from Oxford, not Cambridge.
That's because Cambridge is the one UK place with cycling to work levels
similar to those in the Netherlands and Oxford is one of the next closest,
along with parts of central London where this Cambridge cyclist also cycles.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-10-11 09:45:04 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
When I had to travel regularly from east Oxfordshire to London, the
most sustainable routing was M40/A40 to Ickenham, park, and get the
tube. Next best perhaps transfer at Rickmansworth.
Not Hillingdon?
I hardly ever found a free parking space there, and never failed to at
Ickenham.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-10-13 01:32:29 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Commuting the last two miles into Oxford (depending on the exact
location of your wife's employment) is by far the most challenging
exercise here.
That's the easy bit. You cycle what is an ideal distance for cycle
commuting. While you're doing it you laugh at all the people in cars and
buses stuck in traffic.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Cambridge
Roland Perry
2017-10-13 06:56:10 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Commuting the last two miles into Oxford (depending on the exact
location of your wife's employment) is by far the most challenging
exercise here.
That's the easy bit.
Modulo the modal shift from car to bike at the two-mile perimeter.

I note that Cambridgshire is thinking about scrapping the daily parking
charge at P&R, which was aimed at people taking a modal shift to other
than the bus. Or more cynically, aimed at people who weren't using the
P&R in order to go shopping.
--
Roland Perry
Robin9
2017-10-10 12:58:25 UTC
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Another possibility is for you and your wife to buy a house halfway
between Oxford and London. My guess is that Oxford house prices
are quite high. Somewhere a bit off the beaten track might be
cheaper, and your commute will require less time and less money.
Is your wife able to commute or does she need to live in Oxford


--
Robin9
GeorgeK
2017-10-10 13:35:35 UTC
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Thanks for your reply Robin. We were considering this possibility bu
the cumulative expenses for the season tickets from e.g. Reading (or an
other town in between) to Oxford and Reading to London were way mor
than the 5000£ season ticket from Oxford to London while at the sam
time we would live in a town with less going on compared to eithe
London or Oxford (I think)


--
GeorgeK
Someone Somewhere
2017-10-10 17:27:22 UTC
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Thanks for your reply Robin. We were considering this possibility but
the cumulative expenses for the season tickets from e.g. Reading (or any
other town in between) to Oxford and Reading to London were way more
than the 5000£ season ticket from Oxford to London while at the same
time we would live in a town with less going on compared to either
London or Oxford (I think).
Surely it all comes down to what you will accept - the three hour
commute by bus/coach is likely to be more than that unless you live and
work at either end of the bus route. If you have to commute further in
London, don't forget the cost of a travelcard can easily be another
£1000 per year or more.

Whilst it's convenient to live somewhere where things are going on, how
often are you really going to take advantage of that, and if those
places were 30 mins away to save even 5 mins each way on your commute if
you only did them once a week.

At the end of the day, trains work but cost money - I've also no idea
whether you'd be likely to get a seat or not, with standing for an hour
not being the most pleasant of things. Buses are subject to the
vagaries of traffic - the advertised 90 minutes can be an awful lot
longer on bad days.

Given you just don't know, I'd suggest trying some options at typical
commute times - if you don't like it one day, you're going to seriously
detest it after weeks and months.

One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly great
traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived in London
(or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the majority of the
flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.
Theo
2017-10-10 22:54:58 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly great
traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived in London
(or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the majority of the
flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.
A friend of mine did that - living in Victoria (so just round the corner
from Victoria Coach Station) and taking the buses to Oxford a few days a
week. It wasn't too bad apparently - but I dread to think what the rent for
living in Victoria was!

Another option of living halfway is to consider the Chiltern route -
Kidlington, Bicester, High Wycombe, etc, possibly even Banbury. I don't
know how that works out in terms of times and costs.

Also worth working out what you're pay in rent/mortgage for each place: pay
1Kpa extra on the season ticket but save 2K on rent?

OP: Where in London is your job? That could make a big difference. For
instance, if you work in Canary Wharf you might want to be near Crossrail.
That either implies Reading or getting the X90 or Oxford Tube to Marble Arch
and walking to Bond St for Crossrail.

Theo
GeorgeK
2017-10-11 13:42:35 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly great
traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived in Londo
(or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the majority of th
flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.-
A friend of mine did that - living in Victoria (so just round th
corner
from Victoria Coach Station) and taking the buses to Oxford a few day
a
week. It wasn't too bad apparently - but I dread to think what the ren
for
living in Victoria was!
Another option of living halfway is to consider the Chiltern route -
Kidlington, Bicester, High Wycombe, etc, possibly even Banbury.
don't
know how that works out in terms of times and costs.
Also worth working out what you're pay in rent/mortgage for each place
pay
1Kpa extra on the season ticket but save 2K on rent?
OP: Where in London is your job? That could make a big difference.
For
instance, if you work in Canary Wharf you might want to be nea
Crossrail.
That either implies Reading or getting the X90 or Oxford Tube to Marbl
Arch
and walking to Bond St for Crossrail.
Theo
My job is at St Thomas hospital so I have to get to zone 1 (Waterloo o
Westminster). I'll check the places along the Chiltern route as well
Would you recommend any of those places over the other for living


--
GeorgeK
Bryan Morris
2017-10-11 17:36:36 UTC
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My job is at St Thomas hospital so I have to get to zone 1 (Waterloo or
Westminster). I'll check the places along the Chiltern route as well.
Would you recommend any of those places over the other for living?
How does staying at a Travelodge 4 nights a week on the outskirts of
London, travelling by car Monday morning and returning to Oxford Friday
night compare with the cost/time of commuting 5 days a week
--
Bryan Morris
Clank
2017-10-11 17:42:37 UTC
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Post by Bryan Morris
My job is at St Thomas hospital so I have to get to zone 1 (Waterloo or
Westminster). I'll check the places along the Chiltern route as well.
Would you recommend any of those places over the other for living?
How does staying at a Travelodge 4 nights a week on the outskirts of
London, travelling by car Monday morning and returning to Oxford Friday
night compare with the cost/time of commuting 5 days a week
It sounds like a pretty wretched life.

It's been decades since I did it but there was a time in my life when I
found myself (not through choice, thanks to my employer being taken over)
working in Cowley despite living in south London. For what it's worth, I
found the "Oxford Tube" and the X90 buses were viable for commuting
(reliable enough etc.) - but I could only manage it for 6 months before I
found another job and quit.
Bryan Morris
2017-10-11 18:00:02 UTC
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In message <orll6d$c45$***@dont-email.me>, Clank <***@googlemail.com>
writes
Post by Clank
Post by Bryan Morris
My job is at St Thomas hospital so I have to get to zone 1 (Waterloo or
Westminster). I'll check the places along the Chiltern route as well.
Would you recommend any of those places over the other for living?
How does staying at a Travelodge 4 nights a week on the outskirts of
London, travelling by car Monday morning and returning to Oxford
Friday night compare with the cost/time of commuting 5 days a week
It sounds like a pretty wretched life.
I did it for a while though staying in a hotel owned (as a part of the
business) by my employers . My wife and 2 kids in London I worked
(though based in the London office) in Kent mainly.
--
Bryan Morris
Public Key http://www.pgp.uk.demon.net - 0xCC6237E9
tim...
2017-10-12 11:53:17 UTC
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Post by Clank
Post by Bryan Morris
My job is at St Thomas hospital so I have to get to zone 1 (Waterloo or
Westminster). I'll check the places along the Chiltern route as well.
Would you recommend any of those places over the other for living?
How does staying at a Travelodge 4 nights a week on the outskirts of
London, travelling by car Monday morning and returning to Oxford Friday
night compare with the cost/time of commuting 5 days a week
It sounds like a pretty wretched life.
yep

It's bad enough doing that if you don't have a family back home

awful if you do

tim
Roland Perry
2017-10-11 09:36:59 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly great
traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived in London
(or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the majority of the
flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.
The killer, however, is the last four or five miles where she won't be.
And where to park??
--
Roland Perry
Someone Somewhere
2017-10-11 10:21:56 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly great
traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived in
London (or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the
majority of the flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.
The killer, however, is the last four or five miles where she won't be.
And where to park??
I was sort of thinking she would catch the bus - live in Hillingdon or
similar, so he could catch the tube into London and she could get the
bus to Oxford.
Roland Perry
2017-10-11 10:32:50 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly
great traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived
in London (or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the
majority of the flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.
The killer, however, is the last four or five miles where she won't
be. And where to park??
I was sort of thinking she would catch the bus - live in Hillingdon or
similar, so he could catch the tube into London and she could get the
bus to Oxford.
That would avoid the need for driving, but at the expense(sic) of higher
housing prices.
--
Roland Perry
Someone Somewhere
2017-10-11 13:56:43 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Someone Somewhere
One thing to consider, is that whilst Oxford isn't particularly
great  traffic wise, if your wife was to commute there and you lived
in  London (or its outskirts), at least she'd be going against the
majority of the flow of traffic for a lot of the journey.
 The killer, however, is the last four or five miles where she won't
be.  And where to park??
I was sort of thinking she would catch the bus - live in Hillingdon or
similar, so he could catch the tube into London and she could get the
bus to Oxford.
That would avoid the need for driving, but at the expense(sic) of higher
housing prices.
True - but also a relatively guaranteed commute.

What we don't really know from the OP is quite what his budget is for
things - I realise he commented on the train price, but was that on the
basis of not being able to afford it or he judged it as poor value?
David Cantrell
2017-10-12 12:05:18 UTC
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Post by GeorgeK
By reading other threads it seems that the most convenient way
is to take the train but the annual ticket is ridiculously expensive
(~5000? !!!!!).
Assuming you travel both ways 220 times a year, so 440 journeys of about
60 miles, that's about 20 pence per mile, which really isn't that
expensive. And of course that ignores any benefit you might get from
being able to use your season ticket for journeys into London during
weekends and holidays - you'd have a Gold Card, so that would include
cheaper tickets for your wife as well.
Post by GeorgeK
The buses is another option but it would also mean that
I will be spending at least 3h commuting. I do have a car and I was
wondering if it is worth driving to 3rd or 4th zone in London to avoid
congestion charges, park at a station and then use the underground to
get to zone 1. Would this be a good idea? Any other reccomendations?
Depends on fuel consumption, but almost certainly not. You'll need to
pay for parking, for fuel, for extra parts and maintenance due to the
increased wear and tear, and possibly for more insurance because you'll
be doing an extra 20,000 miles per year. You'll not be able to sleep or
read a book or whatever on the journey, or have a drink at the pub after
work, and the journey will be slower.

A train from Oxford to London is about an hour. Arbitrarily picking
Wembley as your zone four destination, that's anywhere between 1h05 and
1h40 depending on traffic, plus the time to get from car to station, and
the time on the tube.
--
David Cantrell | Minister for Arbitrary Justice

I don't do .INI, .BAT, or .SYS files. I don't assign apps to files.
I don't configure peripherals or networks before using them. I have
a computer to do all that. I have a Macintosh, not a hobby.
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