Discussion:
OT: Routemasters down south
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Recliner
2017-03-19 12:00:23 UTC
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On my recent trip to Antarctica, I stumbled across a couple of London
Routemaster buses in service in very unfamiliar places, approximately
8000 miles from London. I strongly suspect they must be the two most
southerly Routemasters (and, indeed, double-deckers of any type) in
the world.

The people of Ushuaia and Stanley don't agree on very much, other than
the right kind of bus to use for local tours:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157681589065165
Adrian Caspersz
2017-03-19 20:38:04 UTC
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Post by Recliner
On my recent trip to Antarctica, I stumbled across a couple of London
Routemaster buses in service in very unfamiliar places, approximately
8000 miles from London. I strongly suspect they must be the two most
southerly Routemasters (and, indeed, double-deckers of any type) in
the world.
The people of Ushuaia and Stanley don't agree on very much, other than
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157681589065165
Certainly not as far, but somewhere in the 80s I was holidaying in
Canada, and found a red London bus parked somewhere. That in itself was
not strange enough. What was stranger was the route number shown. My
local outside central London service!

I've seen UK double decker buses used for US city tours. They have a
real messy way of botching on additional centre doors so that they can
take on passengers from their side of the street.

http://www.showbus.co.uk/gallery/lt/mcss4.htm
--
Adrian C
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-03-19 23:18:16 UTC
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On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 20:38:04 +0000, Adrian Caspersz
Post by Adrian Caspersz
Certainly not as far, but somewhere in the 80s I was holidaying in
Canada, and found a red London bus parked somewhere. That in itself was
not strange enough. What was stranger was the route number shown. My
local outside central London service!
I've seen UK double decker buses used for US city tours. They have a
real messy way of botching on additional centre doors so that they can
take on passengers from their side of the street.
ISTR that when the San Francisco cable car routes were closed for
rebuilding back in the early 1980's the "rail"replacement services
were provided by British double deckers bought new for the job rather
than being 2nd hand ones. Possibly they were Leyland.
The thinking behind it being at least tourists had some thing
different to ride on even if was not a cable car.
I expect they moved on to become city tour buses afterwards.

G.Harman
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-03-20 00:08:07 UTC
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Post by Adrian Caspersz
Post by Recliner
On my recent trip to Antarctica, I stumbled across a couple of London
Routemaster buses in service in very unfamiliar places, approximately
8000 miles from London. I strongly suspect they must be the two most
southerly Routemasters (and, indeed, double-deckers of any type) in
the world.
The people of Ushuaia and Stanley don't agree on very much, other than
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157681589065165
Have you visited Baku? They run London hackney cabs there.
Post by Adrian Caspersz
I've seen UK double decker buses used for US city tours. They have a
real messy way of botching on additional centre doors so that they can
take on passengers from their side of the street.
http://www.showbus.co.uk/gallery/lt/mcss4.htm
They tried running double decker busses in New York City sometime during
the 1970s, AIUI, though I don't think that it worked out.
Roy
2017-03-26 15:53:33 UTC
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Plenty of double-decker tour buses in NYC, al the ones I've seen are LHD built. Las Vegas has some LHD Alexander Dennis double-deckers in regular passenger transport service. I've seen an ex-LT Titan as a tour bus in Vegas too.
--
Roy
Recliner
2017-03-26 16:04:30 UTC
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Post by Roy
Plenty of double-decker tour buses in NYC, al the ones I've seen are LHD
built. Las Vegas has some LHD Alexander Dennis double-deckers in regular
passenger transport service. I've seen an ex-LT Titan as a tour bus in Vegas too.
I spotted one of those in Matjiesfontein in the Western Cape, South Africa:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21777649540/in/album-72157659473370622/>
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21343236234/in/album-72157659473370622/>

The 'tour' basically consists of a circuit of the station car park, but
that's probably all there is in Matjiesfontein, a preserved village on the
railway line from Cape Town to Jo'burg.
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-03-26 16:22:08 UTC
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On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:04:30 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roy
passenger transport service. I've seen an ex-LT Titan as a tour bus in Vegas too.
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21777649540/in/album-72157659473370622/>
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21343236234/in/album-72157659473370622/>
I wonder if that was exported from England and into tour service or
was exported when a new vehicle and has spent its working life over
there.
Some London Trolleybuses were destined for South Africa but WW2 got in
the way , our vehicle construction laws had to be amended to allow
for their greater width .

G.Harman
Recliner
2017-03-26 20:03:03 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:04:30 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roy
passenger transport service. I've seen an ex-LT Titan as a tour bus in Vegas too.
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21777649540/in/album-72157659473370622/>
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21343236234/in/album-72157659473370622/>
I wonder if that was exported from England and into tour service or
was exported when a new vehicle and has spent its working life over
there.
Some London Trolleybuses were destined for South Africa but WW2 got in
the way , our vehicle construction laws had to be amended to allow
for their greater width .
It's a good question that hadn't occurred to me. A swift Google finds this:

RTL STILL WORKING IN SOUTH AFRICA

We've come across this bus before, but not for a long time. Alan Kenny, who
has been contributing to this website for many years, was on safari in
South Africa in January 2016 and spotted this 1950 ex-London Transport
Leyland RTL 841 (originally registered KYY 811) at the Lord Milner Hotel,
Matjiesfontein in the Western Cape province.

It was imported by Cape Electric Tramways in 1966 and worked with them for
10 years, but ended up in Matjiesfontein running tours of the village. Alan
says that the last licence expired at the end of October 2000 so presumably
it's now only used on private roads. Many thanks to Alan for the picture.

http://www.classicbuses.co.uk/busnews.html

----

So it looks like the bus did serve as a London bus until replaced by a
Routemaster in 1966, then served another ten years as a public bus in Cape
Town, before becoming a tourist attraction in Matjiesfonteinin from 1980.
So it's been a tourist attraction for the hotel in the restored village for
37 years, after about 26 years as a public bus in London and Cape Town.

http://www.capetownmagazine.com/activities-matjiesfontein

http://www.matjiesfontein.com/pages/history/
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-26 23:12:16 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:04:30 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Roy
passenger transport service. I've seen an ex-LT Titan as a tour bus in Vegas too.
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21777649540/in/album-721576594733706
22/>
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/21343236234/in/album-721576594733706
22/>
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
I wonder if that was exported from England and into tour service or
was exported when a new vehicle and has spent its working life over there.
Some London Trolleybuses were destined for South Africa but WW2 got in
the way, our vehicle construction laws had to be amended to allow for
their greater width .
They were 8ft wide and confined to routes around Ilford where roads were
seen as wider. The post-war Q1 trolleybuses, built to replace the original
1931 trolleybuses in the Kingston area, were also 8ft wide, as were some
tram replacement diesel buses.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
s***@potato.field
2017-03-27 09:11:08 UTC
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On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 18:12:16 -0500
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
I wonder if that was exported from England and into tour service or
was exported when a new vehicle and has spent its working life over there.
Some London Trolleybuses were destined for South Africa but WW2 got in
the way, our vehicle construction laws had to be amended to allow for
their greater width .
They were 8ft wide and confined to routes around Ilford where roads were
seen as wider. The post-war Q1 trolleybuses, built to replace the original
1931 trolleybuses in the Kingston area, were also 8ft wide, as were some
tram replacement diesel buses.
I never understood this country's obsession with making vehicles too small
whether it be cars, trains or buses. Anyones who's been in a routemaster
knows that 2 standard adults do not sit comfortably side by side in them.
What were they thinking? The standard width for buses and trucks is 2.5m
now which is around 8 foot plus they're longer now, yet the roads are the same
with a lot more parked vehicles either side so clearly clearance could not
have been an issue back then.
--
Spud
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-27 09:59:46 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 18:12:16 -0500
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
I wonder if that was exported from England and into tour service or
was exported when a new vehicle and has spent its working life over
there. Some London Trolleybuses were destined for South Africa but WW2
got in the way, our vehicle construction laws had to be amended to
allow for their greater width .
They were 8ft wide and confined to routes around Ilford where roads
were >seen as wider. The post-war Q1 trolleybuses, built to replace
the original >1931 trolleybuses in the Kingston area, were also 8ft
wide, as were some >tram replacement diesel buses.
I never understood this country's obsession with making vehicles too small
whether it be cars, trains or buses. Anyones who's been in a routemaster
knows that 2 standard adults do not sit comfortably side by side in them.
What were they thinking? The standard width for buses and trucks is 2.5m
now which is around 8 foot plus they're longer now, yet the roads are
the same with a lot more parked vehicles either side so clearly clearance
could not have been an issue back then.
2.5m is 8' 2 1/2". RTs and RTLs and earlier buses were 7' 6" wide. You can't
have been in many of them, then.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
s***@potato.field
2017-03-27 12:16:10 UTC
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On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 04:59:46 -0500
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
I never understood this country's obsession with making vehicles too small
whether it be cars, trains or buses. Anyones who's been in a routemaster
knows that 2 standard adults do not sit comfortably side by side in them.
What were they thinking? The standard width for buses and trucks is 2.5m
now which is around 8 foot plus they're longer now, yet the roads are
the same with a lot more parked vehicles either side so clearly clearance
could not have been an issue back then.
2.5m is 8' 2 1/2". RTs and RTLs and earlier buses were 7' 6" wide. You can't
have been in many of them, then.
So you don't think 8 inches of extra width makes any difference to the
comfort of passengers? And FYI I frequently travelled on routemasters and
the last time it was some on some rail replacement service. It was not
a comfortable experience.
--
Spud
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-03-27 12:37:20 UTC
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On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 12:16:10 +0000 (UTC),
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2.5m is 8' 2 1/2". RTs and RTLs and earlier buses were 7' 6" wide. You can't
have been in many of them, then.
So you don't think 8 inches of extra width makes any difference to the
comfort of passengers? And FYI I frequently travelled on routemasters and
the last time it was some on some rail replacement service. It was not
a comfortable experience.
And did you travel frequently on the buses mentioned above?
If you found an 8ft wide Routemaster uncomfortable then you would have
found the ones mentioned above even worse.
Me thinks you read the above an misconstrued RTs and RTLs to be
Routemasters when the RT and RTL were the previous prewar design which
had to comply with the regulations as they were then.

G.Harman
David C
2017-03-27 20:29:53 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 12:16:10 +0000 (UTC),
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2.5m is 8' 2 1/2". RTs and RTLs and earlier buses were 7' 6" wide. You can't
have been in many of them, then.
So you don't think 8 inches of extra width makes any difference to the
comfort of passengers? And FYI I frequently travelled on routemasters and
the last time it was some on some rail replacement service. It was not
a comfortable experience.
And did you travel frequently on the buses mentioned above?
If you found an 8ft wide Routemaster uncomfortable then you would have
found the ones mentioned above even worse.
Me thinks you read the above an misconstrued RTs and RTLs to be
Routemasters when the RT and RTL were the previous prewar design which
had to comply with the regulations as they were then.
G.Harman
The 151 pre-war RTs did indeed morph into the 4500+ post war
variants, but they weren't the same design. The RTL was basically a
Leyland PD3 chassis built to exactly the same dimensions as the AEC
Regent 3, to allow LT to swap bodies around during overhauls.

As a sop to Leyland's pride, LT also purchased 500 RTW 8 ft wide buses
with Leyland built bodies after obtaining permission from the police
to operate them where-ever possible.

DC

I'm old enough to have ridden on RT, RTL, RTW & most of the RM
variations, as well as most of the trolley-bus types in East London,
including the odd-looking ones in Ilford.......

The RT & the RM used similar width seats, but with a 6" wider gangway
in the RM, so they are / were just as uncomfortable......
The 8 ft wide RTW was different, the seats were 1" wider but with only
a 4" wider gangway.

I'm now old enough to ride buses again (for free.....) & the seats in
modern buses are much too small, & don't seem to have any padding
either, but maybe I'm wider & grumpier now........


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

tim...
2017-03-20 10:22:36 UTC
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Post by Recliner
On my recent trip to Antarctica, I stumbled across a couple of London
Routemaster buses in service in very unfamiliar places, approximately
8000 miles from London. I strongly suspect they must be the two most
southerly Routemasters (and, indeed, double-deckers of any type) in
the world.
The people of Ushuaia and Stanley don't agree on very much, other than
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157681589065165
Certainly not as far, but somewhere in the 80s I was holidaying in Canada,
and found a red London bus parked somewhere. That in itself was not
strange enough. What was stranger was the route number shown. My local
outside central London service!
I've seen UK double decker buses used for US city tours. They have a real
messy way of botching on additional centre doors so that they can take on
passengers from their side of the street.
http://www.showbus.co.uk/gallery/lt/mcss4.htm
the weirdest place that I fond a London bus was sitting in a car park in
small-town East Europe (I forget the country)

They were using it as some sort of advertising vehicle
Graham Harrison
2017-03-22 21:46:01 UTC
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On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 12:00:23 +0000, Recliner
Post by Recliner
On my recent trip to Antarctica, I stumbled across a couple of London
Routemaster buses in service in very unfamiliar places, approximately
8000 miles from London. I strongly suspect they must be the two most
southerly Routemasters (and, indeed, double-deckers of any type) in
the world.
The people of Ushuaia and Stanley don't agree on very much, other than
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157681589065165
Nice to know the Ushaia one is still going. When I was there in 2013
the route number box next to the driver said something about the 50th
anniversary of the Routemaster and the exhaust had been extended up
the UK offside rear corner to vent at the top of the bus.

I didn't see the one in Stanley.

Back in 2001 I saw a couple from the Tren de la Costa in Buenos Aires
somewhere in the vicinity of Tigre.
Recliner
2017-03-22 22:00:05 UTC
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Post by Graham Harrison
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 12:00:23 +0000, Recliner
Post by Recliner
On my recent trip to Antarctica, I stumbled across a couple of London
Routemaster buses in service in very unfamiliar places, approximately
8000 miles from London. I strongly suspect they must be the two most
southerly Routemasters (and, indeed, double-deckers of any type) in
the world.
The people of Ushuaia and Stanley don't agree on very much, other than
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/albums/72157681589065165
Nice to know the Ushaia one is still going. When I was there in 2013
the route number box next to the driver said something about the 50th
anniversary of the Routemaster and the exhaust had been extended up
the UK offside rear corner to vent at the top of the bus.
I didn't see the one in Stanley.
Back in 2001 I saw a couple from the Tren de la Costa in Buenos Aires
somewhere in the vicinity of Tigre.
Yes, I didn't see the Stanley one on my previous visit. I suspect it only
appears on days when cruise liners are in town. There were four (small)
ships when I took that picture, two moored in the middle of the harbour,
and two at FIPASS.
s***@potato.field
2017-03-23 09:43:12 UTC
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On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 21:46:01 +0000
Post by Graham Harrison
anniversary of the Routemaster and the exhaust had been extended up
the UK offside rear corner to vent at the top of the bus.
Standard practice in a lot of the americas for an obvious reasons - it keep it
away from pedestrians and lower vehicles. Quite why it isn't mandated in the
uk or europe is anyones guess. Sitting next to a truck exhaust in traffic is
an unpleasent business, euro 6 or not.
--
Spud
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-26 23:33:36 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
RTL STILL WORKING IN SOUTH AFRICA
We've come across this bus before, but not for a long time. Alan Kenny,
who has been contributing to this website for many years, was on safari in
South Africa in January 2016 and spotted this 1950 ex-London Transport
Leyland RTL 841 (originally registered KYY 811) at the Lord Milner Hotel,
Matjiesfontein in the Western Cape province.
It was imported by Cape Electric Tramways in 1966 and worked with them for
10 years, but ended up in Matjiesfontein running tours of the village.
Alan says that the last licence expired at the end of October 2000 so
presumably it's now only used on private roads. Many thanks to Alan for
the picture.
http://www.classicbuses.co.uk/busnews.html
----
So it looks like the bus did serve as a London bus until replaced by a
Routemaster in 1966, then served another ten years as a public bus in Cape
Town, before becoming a tourist attraction in Matjiesfonteinin from 1980.
So it's been a tourist attraction for the hotel in the restored village
for 37 years, after about 26 years as a public bus in London and Cape
Town.
http://www.capetownmagazine.com/activities-matjiesfontein
http://www.matjiesfontein.com/pages/history/
I remember coming across an RT in a Cornish field not so long ago.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-03-27 01:12:45 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
RTL STILL WORKING IN SOUTH AFRICA
We've come across this bus before, but not for a long time. Alan Kenny,
who has been contributing to this website for many years, was on safari in
South Africa in January 2016 and spotted this 1950 ex-London Transport
Leyland RTL 841 (originally registered KYY 811) at the Lord Milner Hotel,
Matjiesfontein in the Western Cape province.
It was imported by Cape Electric Tramways in 1966 and worked with them for
10 years, but ended up in Matjiesfontein running tours of the village.
Alan says that the last licence expired at the end of October 2000 so
presumably it's now only used on private roads. Many thanks to Alan for
the picture.
http://www.classicbuses.co.uk/busnews.html
----
So it looks like the bus did serve as a London bus until replaced by a
Routemaster in 1966, then served another ten years as a public bus in Cape
Town, before becoming a tourist attraction in Matjiesfonteinin from 1980.
So it's been a tourist attraction for the hotel in the restored village
for 37 years, after about 26 years as a public bus in London and Cape
Town.
http://www.capetownmagazine.com/activities-matjiesfontein
http://www.matjiesfontein.com/pages/history/
I remember coming across an RT in a Cornish field not so long ago.
Much less surprising than in the middle of nowhere, in the rural Western
Cape!
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-27 08:08:18 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
RTL STILL WORKING IN SOUTH AFRICA
We've come across this bus before, but not for a long time. Alan Kenny,
who has been contributing to this website for many years, was on safari
in South Africa in January 2016 and spotted this 1950 ex-London
Transport Leyland RTL 841 (originally registered KYY 811) at the Lord
Milner Hotel, Matjiesfontein in the Western Cape province.
It was imported by Cape Electric Tramways in 1966 and worked with them
for 10 years, but ended up in Matjiesfontein running tours of the
village. Alan says that the last licence expired at the end of October
2000 so presumably it's now only used on private roads. Many thanks to
Alan for the picture.
http://www.classicbuses.co.uk/busnews.html
----
So it looks like the bus did serve as a London bus until replaced by a
Routemaster in 1966, then served another ten years as a public bus in
Cape Town, before becoming a tourist attraction in Matjiesfontein from
1980. So it's been a tourist attraction for the hotel in the restored
village for 37 years, after about 26 years as a public bus in London
and Cape Town.
http://www.capetownmagazine.com/activities-matjiesfontein
http://www.matjiesfontein.com/pages/history/
I remember coming across an RT in a Cornish field not so long ago.
Much less surprising than in the middle of nowhere, in the rural Western
Cape!
Depends on expectations, I suppose.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
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