Discussion:
Completion of London's Thameslink rail project delayed until December 2019
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David Walters
2017-11-23 09:41:29 UTC
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Promise of 24 Thameslink trains running through central London each
hour will not be fulfilled until another £900m of work is carried out
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/thameslink-rail-completion-delayed-london-december-2019
Roland Perry
2017-11-23 09:59:26 UTC
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Post by David Walters
Promise of 24 Thameslink trains running through central London each
hour will not be fulfilled until another £900m of work is carried out
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/thameslink-rail-
completion-delayed-london-december-2019
"Network Rail, whose engineering budget for the project overran
by 10% to £5.5bn, now says another £900m of work must be carried
out on the wider network around the core Thameslink route to
ensure a reliable service."

Is there no limit to the number of "surprises" lurking out there for
Network Rail to trip over?

They've only been planning this project for, what, the whole of their
corporate life.
--
Roland Perry
Offramp
2017-11-24 06:16:58 UTC
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Post by David Walters
Promise of 24 Thameslink trains running through central London each
hour will not be fulfilled until another £900m of work is carried out
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/thameslink-rail-completion-delayed-london-december-2019
I live near Mitcham Eastfields, which is on Thameslink. There is a level crossing associated with the station. Sometimes three trains are scheduled to go through the station, let's say, NB, SB and a fast. This can mean that the barriers stay down for 7-10 minutes. By that time pedestrians and drivers are starting to get cranky.

If the barriers stayed down for much longer I think people would start edging forward.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-24 08:44:55 UTC
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Post by Offramp
Post by David Walters
Promise of 24 Thameslink trains running through central London each
hour will not be fulfilled until another £900m of work is carried out
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/thameslink-rail-completion-de
layed-london-december-2019
Post by Offramp
I live near Mitcham Eastfields, which is on Thameslink. There is a
level crossing associated with the station. Sometimes three trains
are scheduled to go through the station, let's say, NB, SB and a
fast. This can mean that the barriers stay down for 7-10 minutes. By
that time pedestrians and drivers are starting to get cranky.
If the barriers stayed down for much longer I think people would start edging forward.
I'm amazed people don't realise how long level crossings can stay down. When
I was a kid in the 1960s we knew that. My parents always turned the car
engine off to wait at one as most motorists did. People can be so impatient
these days.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Robin9
2017-11-24 10:59:06 UTC
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In London, 7 minutes is a long time.

I know the road lay-out at Mitcham Eastfields, and it's one of
those locations where there is not room to take the road either
over or under the railway. As with Highams Park Station, it's a
classic, don't-raise-the-bridge, lower-the-water situation.

As politicians and Network Rail have such a casual attitude to
spending tax-payers' money, and regard 100 million pounds as
loose change, they might usefully consider the very expensive
option of lowering the railway into a cutting in this type o
situation.

Yes, I do know that would involve closing a very busy commuter
route for a long time


--
Robin9
David C
2017-11-24 17:21:50 UTC
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2017 10:59:06 +0000, Robin9
Post by Robin9
In London, 7 minutes is a long time.
I know the road lay-out at Mitcham Eastfields, and it's one of
those locations where there is not room to take the road either
over or under the railway. As with Highams Park Station, it's a
classic, don't-raise-the-bridge, lower-the-water situation.
As politicians and Network Rail have such a casual attitude to
spending tax-payers' money, and regard 100 million pounds as
loose change, they might usefully consider the very expensive
option of lowering the railway into a cutting in this type of
situation.
Yes, I do know that would involve closing a very busy commuter
route for a long time.
I grew up in Walthamstow & had family in Highams Park, imagine the
traffic problems there when the peak service on the Chingford Branch
was 9 TPH......

Off peak was 6 TPH, at least until the Victoria Line was completed.

DC
Robin
2017-11-24 15:10:52 UTC
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Post by David Walters
Post by Offramp
Post by David Walters
Promise of 24 Thameslink trains running through central London each
hour will not be fulfilled until another £900m of work is carried out
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/thameslink-rail-completion-de
layed-london-december-2019
Post by Offramp
I live near Mitcham Eastfields, which is on Thameslink. There is a
level crossing associated with the station. Sometimes three trains
are scheduled to go through the station, let's say, NB, SB and a
fast. This can mean that the barriers stay down for 7-10 minutes. By
that time pedestrians and drivers are starting to get cranky.
If the barriers stayed down for much longer I think people would start edging forward.
I'm amazed people don't realise how long level crossings can stay down. When
I was a kid in the 1960s we knew that. My parents always turned the car
engine off to wait at one as most motorists did. People can be so impatient
these days.
with 5 times as many cars, travelling 5 times as many miles, I find it
neither surprising nor wholly reprehensible that people are no longer
content to wait for the signalman to change the signals, then come down
from the box to open the gates. And those figures are national. In
London and the SE the changes have been greater.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-24 15:47:06 UTC
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Post by Robin
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Offramp
Post by David Walters
Promise of 24 Thameslink trains running through central London each
hour will not be fulfilled until another £900m of work is carried out
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/23/thameslink-rail-completion-de
layed-london-december-2019
Post by Robin
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Offramp
I live near Mitcham Eastfields, which is on Thameslink. There is a
level crossing associated with the station. Sometimes three trains
are scheduled to go through the station, let's say, NB, SB and a
fast. This can mean that the barriers stay down for 7-10 minutes. By
that time pedestrians and drivers are starting to get cranky.
If the barriers stayed down for much longer I think people would
start edging forward.
I'm amazed people don't realise how long level crossings can stay down.
When I was a kid in the 1960s we knew that. My parents always turned the
car engine off to wait at one as most motorists did. People can be so
impatient these days.
with 5 times as many cars, travelling 5 times as many miles, I find
it neither surprising nor wholly reprehensible that people are no
longer content to wait for the signalman to change the signals, then
come down from the box to open the gates. And those figures are
national. In London and the SE the changes have been greater.
That level crossing model, while normal in the 1960s, largely went out long
ago. So signalling is as likely as not automatic or controlled by route
setting. 5 crossings are supervised from Cambridge PSB by CCTV. Almost no
crossing gates require a signalman to come down from his box to open the
gates now. Indeed gates opened by wheel from within the box existed before
the war!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-11-24 17:32:00 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Robin
with 5 times as many cars, travelling 5 times as many miles, I find
it neither surprising nor wholly reprehensible that people are no
longer content to wait for the signalman to change the signals, then
come down from the box to open the gates. And those figures are
national. In London and the SE the changes have been greater.
That level crossing model, while normal in the 1960s, largely went out long
ago. So signalling is as likely as not automatic or controlled by route
setting. 5 crossings are supervised from Cambridge PSB by CCTV. Almost no
crossing gates require a signalman to come down from his box to open the
gates now.
Littleport station crossing!

And until only a couple of years ago, Shippea Hill station crossing.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-25 10:17:18 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Robin
with 5 times as many cars, travelling 5 times as many miles, I find
it neither surprising nor wholly reprehensible that people are no
longer content to wait for the signalman to change the signals, then
come down from the box to open the gates. And those figures are
national. In London and the SE the changes have been greater.
That level crossing model, while normal in the 1960s, largely went out
long ago. So signalling is as likely as not automatic or controlled by
route setting. 5 crossings are supervised from Cambridge PSB by CCTV.
Almost no crossing gates require a signalman to come down from his box to
open the gates now.
Littleport station crossing!
With an underpass like at Ely! How much traffic does that crossing get?
Again, the signalling to King's Lynn is long overdue for modernising. It
should have been done with the electrification. Why that crossing missed out
on replacement of gates by lifting barriers GOK. Part of the decades of
under-investment because of cutting taxes on motorists.

OK, I was a bit too strong with "almost no" but I'm not aware of any others
in East Anglia.
Post by Roland Perry
And until only a couple of years ago, Shippea Hill station crossing.
Yes, Ely-Norwich signalling was modernised.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-11-25 13:34:44 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Robin
with 5 times as many cars, travelling 5 times as many miles, I find
it neither surprising nor wholly reprehensible that people are no
longer content to wait for the signalman to change the signals, then
come down from the box to open the gates. And those figures are
national. In London and the SE the changes have been greater.
That level crossing model, while normal in the 1960s, largely went out
long ago. So signalling is as likely as not automatic or controlled by
route setting. 5 crossings are supervised from Cambridge PSB by CCTV.
Almost no crossing gates require a signalman to come down from his box to
open the gates now.
Littleport station crossing!
With an underpass like at Ely!
Don't mention Ely! (You'll annoy Basil).

But the underpass is even lower. So a van like this probably too high:
https://goo.gl/maps/3LiuoCLXQZm
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
How much traffic does that crossing get?
Very little. Since the bypass (a while ago now) it's on a road
essentially from nowhere to nowhere.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-25 15:30:44 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Robin
with 5 times as many cars, travelling 5 times as many miles, I find
it neither surprising nor wholly reprehensible that people are no
longer content to wait for the signalman to change the signals, then
come down from the box to open the gates. And those figures are
national. In London and the SE the changes have been greater.
That level crossing model, while normal in the 1960s, largely went out
long ago. So signalling is as likely as not automatic or controlled by
route setting. 5 crossings are supervised from Cambridge PSB by CCTV.
Almost no crossing gates require a signalman to come down from his box
to open the gates now.
Littleport station crossing!
With an underpass like at Ely!
Don't mention Ely! (You'll annoy Basil).
But the underpass is even lower. So a van like this probably too
high: https://goo.gl/maps/3LiuoCLXQZm
2.51m at Littleport compared to 2.7m at Ely. That van would just about get
under judging by the amount of clearance visible there. Although judging by
what's on Google Streetview, their car probably couldn't get under it.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
How much traffic does that crossing get?
Very little. Since the bypass (a while ago now) it's on a road
essentially from nowhere to nowhere.
So it comes low down the priority list for replacing the gates,
unsurprisingly.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-11-25 16:01:28 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Littleport station crossing!
With an underpass like at Ely!
Don't mention Ely! (You'll annoy Basil).
But the underpass is even lower. So a van like this probably too
high: https://goo.gl/maps/3LiuoCLXQZm
2.51m at Littleport compared to 2.7m at Ely. That van would just about get
under
You reckon there's 20cm extra clearance here - really??

https://goo.gl/maps/hso9PDgdviT2
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
judging by the amount of clearance visible there. Although judging by
what's on Google Streetview, their car probably couldn't get under it.
The best I can find is that the streetview cameras are "at 8.2ft". It's
not clear if that's the height of the lens, or perhaps the lenses are at
8ft and the top of the camera housing at 8.2ft.

That's so close to 2.5m it's not obvious which measuring system they
were designed for.

But when this last came up I mentioned that same view above, which is
pretty much along the line of the roof of the white van, so I'm inclined
to think the 8.2ft/2.5m is the lens (despite being designed in
imperial-measuring USA), and hence the top of the housing is more like
8.4ft = 2.6m
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-25 17:00:31 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
Littleport station crossing!
With an underpass like at Ely!
Don't mention Ely! (You'll annoy Basil).
But the underpass is even lower. So a van like this probably too
high: https://goo.gl/maps/3LiuoCLXQZm
2.51m at Littleport compared to 2.7m at Ely. That van would just about
get under
You reckon there's 20cm extra clearance here - really??
https://goo.gl/maps/hso9PDgdviT2
I see now. I was going by the van body and reckoning that the view showed
the minimum bridge height. I didn't notice the things on the roof, so no,
there isn't another 19cm there.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
judging by the amount of clearance visible there. Although judging by
what's on Google Streetview, their car probably couldn't get under it.
The best I can find is that the streetview cameras are "at 8.2ft".
It's not clear if that's the height of the lens, or perhaps the
lenses are at 8ft and the top of the camera housing at 8.2ft.
That's so close to 2.5m it's not obvious which measuring system they
were designed for.
But when this last came up I mentioned that same view above, which is
pretty much along the line of the roof of the white van, so I'm
inclined to think the 8.2ft/2.5m is the lens (despite being designed
in imperial-measuring USA), and hence the top of the housing is more
like 8.4ft = 2.6m
2.5m = 8'2œ". It's the maximum width of buses (or was). I suppose the 2.51m
on the sign would be 8'3", what the other sign on the bridge shows.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Robin9
2017-11-25 11:09:46 UTC
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I suspect one reason there has never been a revival of the
service between Chingford and Stratford despite the new
station in Leyton is that the Highams Park level crossing would
become even busier and traffic chaos would inevitably result


--
Robin9
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