Discussion:
Contactless tube payment accepted by Natwest despite zero funds
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matthew3774
2018-06-16 23:58:36 UTC
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Hi guys I had £2.87 in my Natwest business account. This account has n
overdraft so typically doesn't let me spend if the transaction woul
take me below £0.

Anyway yesterday I made a journey from Victoria to Highgate, fro
Highgate to Victoria, Victoria to Westminster and Charing Cross t
Highgate. I was able to touch my contactless card to open the barrier
for all these journeys.

Today I was unable to use the card when getting on at Highgate to star
my first journey of the day.

Is there a chance that Natwest will heavily charge me for usin
contactless when there was only £2.87 available? Or is it possible tha
all the trips only cost £2.87?

Since coming home I have topped up the account for when the money i
taken out by TFL so it shouldn't go overdraw


--
matthew3774
Roland Perry
2018-06-17 10:42:52 UTC
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Hi guys I had £2.87 in my Natwest business account. This account has no
overdraft so typically doesn't let me spend if the transaction would
take me below £0.
Anyway yesterday I made a journey from Victoria to Highgate, from
Highgate to Victoria, Victoria to Westminster and Charing Cross to
Highgate. I was able to touch my contactless card to open the barriers
for all these journeys.
Today I was unable to use the card when getting on at Highgate to start
my first journey of the day.
That suggests Natwest refused the full charge for the previous day.
Is there a chance that Natwest will heavily charge me for using
contactless when there was only £2.87 available? Or is it possible that
all the trips only cost £2.87?
Since coming home I have topped up the account for when the money is
taken out by TFL so it shouldn't go overdrawn
I don't know if TfL will periodically "retry" the charge, or what
happens next, and what timescale the card's blacklisting by TfL will
wear off.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-17 11:23:38 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Hi guys I had £2.87 in my Natwest business account. This account has no
overdraft so typically doesn't let me spend if the transaction would
take me below £0.
Anyway yesterday I made a journey from Victoria to Highgate, from
Highgate to Victoria, Victoria to Westminster and Charing Cross to
Highgate. I was able to touch my contactless card to open the barriers
for all these journeys.
Today I was unable to use the card when getting on at Highgate to start
my first journey of the day.
That suggests Natwest refused the full charge for the previous day.
Yes:
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/my-card-doesn-t-work#on-this-page-3>
Post by Roland Perry
Is there a chance that Natwest will heavily charge me for using
contactless when there was only £2.87 available? Or is it possible that
all the trips only cost £2.87?
Since coming home I have topped up the account for when the money is
taken out by TFL so it shouldn't go overdrawn
I don't know if TfL will periodically "retry" the charge, or what
happens next, and what timescale the card's blacklisting by TfL will
wear off.
From:
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/my-card-doesn-t-work#on-this-page-4>

Occasionally your card may be accepted by our card readers, but the payment
is subsequently declined by your card issuer. If this happens:

- It means that you have made a journey which you have not paid for

- You will not be able to use your card again to travel until the unpaid
fare has been paid

You will get a notification for unpaid fares when you sign in to your
contactless and Oyster account where you can make a payment to clear the
unpaid fare. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 (TfL call
charges) or contact your card issuer.

Once an unpaid fare has been cleared, you will be able to use your
contactless card, mobile or other contactless device to travel again after
30 minutes.

If you do not clear the unpaid fare through your account or by phone, we
will try to do so by sending requests to your card issuer. If the payment
is successful, this could appear on your card issuer statement up to 30
days after you travelled.
Roland Perry
2018-06-17 11:49:04 UTC
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<974472084.550927218.719527.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 11:23:38 on Sun, 17 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
I don't know if TfL will periodically "retry" the charge, or what
happens next, and what timescale the card's blacklisting by TfL will
wear off.
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/my-card-doesn-t-work#on-this-page-4>
Occasionally your card may be accepted by our card readers, but the payment
- It means that you have made a journey which you have not paid for
- You will not be able to use your card again to travel until the unpaid
fare has been paid
You will get a notification for unpaid fares when you sign in to your
contactless and Oyster account where you can make a payment to clear the
unpaid fare. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 (TfL call
charges) or contact your card issuer.
Once an unpaid fare has been cleared, you will be able to use your
contactless card, mobile or other contactless device to travel again after
30 minutes.
If you do not clear the unpaid fare through your account or by phone, we
will try to do so by sending requests to your card issuer.
Some banks will charge the account holder a fee every time they "bounce"
an incoming payment :(

I know someone who had that happen (for the same payment) there times a
day, until they'd added some funds. They did get the fees refunded when
they complained, though.
Post by Recliner
If the payment is successful, this could appear on your card issuer
statement up to 30 days after you travelled.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-17 12:14:55 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 11:23:38 on Sun, 17 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
I don't know if TfL will periodically "retry" the charge, or what
happens next, and what timescale the card's blacklisting by TfL will
wear off.
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/my-card-doesn-t-work#on-this-page-4>
Occasionally your card may be accepted by our card readers, but the payment
- It means that you have made a journey which you have not paid for
- You will not be able to use your card again to travel until the unpaid
fare has been paid
You will get a notification for unpaid fares when you sign in to your
contactless and Oyster account where you can make a payment to clear the
unpaid fare. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 (TfL call
charges) or contact your card issuer.
Once an unpaid fare has been cleared, you will be able to use your
contactless card, mobile or other contactless device to travel again after
30 minutes.
If you do not clear the unpaid fare through your account or by phone, we
will try to do so by sending requests to your card issuer.
Some banks will charge the account holder a fee every time they "bounce"
an incoming payment :(
Yes, and business accounts are more likely to impose such charges than
private accounts. I was quite surprised that, in the days when I had a
business account, that it had a monthly fee, while my much busier personal
account was free.
Post by Roland Perry
I know someone who had that happen (for the same payment) there times a
day, until they'd added some funds. They did get the fees refunded when
they complained, though.
Post by Recliner
If the payment is successful, this could appear on your card issuer
statement up to 30 days after you travelled.
matthew3774
2018-06-17 13:29:55 UTC
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Apparently a payment for £13 came out today to TFL, I topped up m
account last night and NatWest said there were no charges on the accoun
at the moment, something about how the weekend counts as a Monday so i
would be unlikely there would be any.

I don’t think TFL contactless payments are normally taken from th
account straight away anyway, there’s a couple of days delay, durin
which time I topped up the account, so hopefully I’ll be goo


--
matthew3774
Roland Perry
2018-06-17 18:01:01 UTC
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Apparently a payment for £13 came out today to TFL, I topped up my
account last night and NatWest said there were no charges on the account
at the moment, something about how the weekend counts as a Monday so it
would be unlikely there would be any.
I don’t think TFL contactless payments are normally taken from the
account straight away anyway, there’s a couple of days delay, during
which time I topped up the account, so hopefully I’ll be good
My Prepay (see other threads) contactless card was debited on Friday for
trips made last Thursday.

Given the TfL day probably doesn't finish until after midnight, that's
entirely what I'd expect from an overnight calculation of the amount
due.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-17 20:28:31 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Apparently a payment for £13 came out today to TFL, I topped up my
account last night and NatWest said there were no charges on the account
at the moment, something about how the weekend counts as a Monday so it
would be unlikely there would be any.
I don’t think TFL contactless payments are normally taken from the
account straight away anyway, there’s a couple of days delay, during
which time I topped up the account, so hopefully I’ll be good
My Prepay (see other threads) contactless card was debited on Friday for
trips made last Thursday.
Given the TfL day probably doesn't finish until after midnight, that's
entirely what I'd expect from an overnight calculation of the amount
due.
Well after midnight: the capping day runs from 04:30 to 04:29.

<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/price-capping#on-this-page-1>
Roland Perry
2018-06-18 05:36:34 UTC
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<1894764669.550959948.849674.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 20:28:31 on Sun, 17 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
Apparently a payment for £13 came out today to TFL, I topped up my
account last night and NatWest said there were no charges on the account
at the moment, something about how the weekend counts as a Monday so it
would be unlikely there would be any.
I don’t think TFL contactless payments are normally taken from the
account straight away anyway, there’s a couple of days delay, during
which time I topped up the account, so hopefully I’ll be good
My Prepay (see other threads) contactless card was debited on Friday for
trips made last Thursday.
Given the TfL day probably doesn't finish until after midnight, that's
entirely what I'd expect from an overnight calculation of the amount
due.
Well after midnight: the capping day runs from 04:30 to 04:29.
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-oyster/price-capping#on-this-page-1>
Indeed, and so the charge is made to the card the same day (in banking
terms) as the total is calculated.

Next time I run the field trip, I'll look and see roughly when during
the day the charge pops up.
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Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-06-18 08:32:57 UTC
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On Sun, 17 Jun 2018 14:29:55 +0100
Apparently a payment for £13 came out today to TFL, I topped up my
account last night and NatWest said there were no charges on the account
at the moment, something about how the weekend counts as a Monday so it
would be unlikely there would be any.
I don’t think TFL contactless payments are normally taken from the
account straight away anyway, there’s a couple of days delay, during
which time I topped up the account, so hopefully I’ll be good
Or you could just use an oyster card instead and not have to worry about it.
matthew3774
2018-06-19 14:14:56 UTC
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The payment has come up as ‘London Transport’ rather than TFL. Anyon
have any insight on this


--
matthew3774
Roland Perry
2018-06-19 15:16:03 UTC
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The payment has come up as ‘London Transport’ rather than TFL. Anyone
have any insight on this?
Mine says (sorry about the caps):

TFL.GOV.UK/CP - VICTORIA STREET, TFL TRAVEL CH,SW1H 0TL,GBR
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2018-06-20 06:34:01 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
The payment has come up as ‘London Transport’ rather than TFL. Anyone
have any insight on this?
TFL.GOV.UK/CP - VICTORIA STREET, TFL TRAVEL CH,SW1H 0TL,GBR
when I made an online top-up to my PAYG I got:

OYSTER RENEW WEB 0343 2221234 GB

Like the phone number is significant to the transaction :-)

tim
Someone Somewhere
2018-06-20 06:40:27 UTC
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Post by tim...
Tue, 19 Jun 2018, matthew3774
The payment has come up as ‘London Transport’ rather than TFL. Anyone
have any insight on this?
TFL.GOV.UK/CP - VICTORIA STREET, TFL TRAVEL CH,SW1H 0TL,GBR
OYSTER RENEW WEB 0343 2221234 GB
Like the phone number is significant to the transaction :-)
To be fair, if you were questioning the transaction it's very handy to
have a phone number there...
David Cantrell
2018-06-25 10:39:42 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by tim...
OYSTER RENEW WEB 0343 2221234 GB
Like the phone number is significant to the transaction :-)
To be fair, if you were questioning the transaction it's very handy to
have a phone number there...
If I were questioning a transaction I wouldn't pay much attention to a
phone number that is presumably supplied by the person I think is
trying to scam me. Just like how if someone phones me claiming to be
from my bank I won't take their word for it, nor will I call any number
that they helpfully tell me over the phone.
--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

European immigration: making Britain great since AD43
Roland Perry
2018-06-20 07:04:36 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
The payment has come up as ‘London Transport’ rather than TFL. Anyone
have any insight on this?
TFL.GOV.UK/CP - VICTORIA STREET, TFL TRAVEL CH,SW1H 0TL,GBR
OYSTER RENEW WEB 0343 2221234 GB
What we can probably conclude from this it that the wording in question
isn't pushed by TfL to the card company, but comes from a lookup table
held by the card company, into which they have put something they think
might be helpful to their customers (or more precisely, helpful to the
bank because it seeks to reduce the number of calls they get querying
the charges).
--
Roland Perry
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