Discussion:
How many employees per gate do London's airports have?
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Ding Bat
2018-06-28 11:07:24 UTC
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Heathrow Airport is one of the largest employment sites in London with over 76,600 people working within the Airport boundary creating gross value added (GVA) of almost £3.3 billion
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2014/02/heathrow-cutting-200-jobs-20-of-total-core-staff-due-to-caa-restriction-on-landing-charge-rises/

With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150 employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.

Where are all these employees? I haven't noticed anywhere near 150 employees per gate.
Graham Harrison
2018-06-28 11:47:30 UTC
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On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 04:07:24 -0700 (PDT), Ding Bat
Post by Ding Bat
Heathrow Airport is one of the largest employment sites in London with over 76,600 people working within the Airport boundary creating gross value added (GVA) of almost £3.3 billion
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2014/02/heathrow-cutting-200-jobs-20-of-total-core-staff-due-to-caa-restriction-on-landing-charge-rises/
With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150 employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
Where are all these employees? I haven't noticed anywhere near 150 employees per gate.
My guess would be at least 3 shifts but that doesn't really answer
your question.

The total probably includes cargo handling staff (the BA site is on
the south side adjacent to T4), maintenance staff (who will work in
the hangars by Hatton Cross and also on the ramps). Then there's
customs and immigration (some customs people will be in cargo), Post
Office, terminal cleaners, air traffic controllers in the tower,
police, shops staff in the terminals, security (also includes people
who search aircraft before boarding to ensure nothing untoward is
leaft on board), fire and rescue (the airport equipment), aircraft
cleaners, fuellers, aircraft toilet tanker drivers, water tanker
drivers, catering staff both preparing and loading food. At least
one of the BA hangars has offices on top, checkin, people to maintain
the various electricals, computers, comms kit (you'd be amazed how
much of that there is). The car park attendants and bus drivers.

The point is that a lot of the staff are hidden!
Graeme Wall
2018-06-28 13:40:07 UTC
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Post by Ding Bat
Heathrow Airport is one of the largest employment sites in London with over 76,600 people working within the Airport boundary creating gross value added (GVA) of almost £3.3 billion
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2014/02/heathrow-cutting-200-jobs-20-of-total-core-staff-due-to-caa-restriction-on-landing-charge-rises/
With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150 employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
More likely three shifts.
Post by Ding Bat
Where are all these employees? I haven't noticed anywhere near 150 employees per gate.
Check in, Security, shopping, catering, ATC, luggage handling, aircraft
handling aircraft maintenance, building maintenance, plumbers,
electricians, passport control - sorry border control, ATC, cleaners,
parking control, customs, fuelling operators, information, car hire, and
so it goes on.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2018-06-28 14:18:04 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Ding Bat
With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150
employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
More likely three shifts.
Working time directive (yes, I know, people voted to rid ourselves of
such Brussels imposed Curly Banana Republic red tape) converges on
approximately a 37hr week for 52 minus 6 weeks of the year.

That's 37*46=1700hrs a year, from which one has to subtract an allowance
for sick days and training. Let's say 1500/yr

If Heathrow operates 20hrs a day (allowing for after-midnight finish and
4am start), 365 days a year that's 7300.

Which if every job function was on duty the whole time gives 4.8 sets of
employees. Let's call it 4x for the purposes of the debate.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-28 14:58:34 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Ding Bat
With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150
employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
More likely three shifts.
Working time directive (yes, I know, people voted to rid ourselves of
such Brussels imposed Curly Banana Republic red tape) converges on
approximately a 37hr week for 52 minus 6 weeks of the year.
That's 37*46=1700hrs a year, from which one has to subtract an allowance
for sick days and training. Let's say 1500/yr
If Heathrow operates 20hrs a day (allowing for after-midnight finish and
4am start), 365 days a year that's 7300.
Which if every job function was on duty the whole time gives 4.8 sets of
employees. Let's call it 4x for the purposes of the debate.
Yes, that's probably a good estimate.

Of course many jobs really are around the clock, even if no planes are
flying: maintenance, ATC, security, catering kitchens. I think the
terminals also remain open 24x7.
Graeme Wall
2018-06-28 15:20:07 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
 With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150
employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
More likely three shifts.
Working time directive (yes, I know, people voted to rid ourselves of
such Brussels imposed Curly Banana Republic red tape) converges on
approximately a 37hr week for 52 minus 6 weeks of the year.
That's 37*46=1700hrs a year, from which one has to subtract an allowance
for sick days and training. Let's say 1500/yr
If Heathrow operates 20hrs a day (allowing for after-midnight finish and
4am start), 365 days a year that's 7300.
Which if every job function was on duty the whole time gives 4.8 sets of
employees. Let's call it 4x for the purposes of the debate.
A lot of jobs will function 24 hours a day even though aircraft won't be
flying all the time so your 4.8, rounded to 5 is probably closer to reality.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
2018-06-28 20:31:43 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Post by Ding Bat
With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150
employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
More likely three shifts.
Working time directive (yes, I know, people voted to rid ourselves of
such Brussels imposed Curly Banana Republic red tape) converges on
approximately a 37hr week for 52 minus 6 weeks of the year.
That's 37*46=1700hrs a year, from which one has to subtract an allowance
for sick days and training. Let's say 1500/yr
If Heathrow operates 20hrs a day (allowing for after-midnight finish and
4am start), 365 days a year that's 7300.
Which if every job function was on duty the whole time gives 4.8 sets of
employees. Let's call it 4x for the purposes of the debate.
One other thought: Heathrow handles a lot of freight, as well as
passengers. Freight doesn't use passenger gates, so calculations of
staff/gate are essentially meaningless.
Jarle Hammen Knudsen
2018-06-28 19:56:24 UTC
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On Thu, 28 Jun 2018 04:07:24 -0700 (PDT), Ding Bat
Post by Ding Bat
Heathrow Airport is one of the largest employment sites in London with over 76,600 people working within the Airport boundary creating gross value added (GVA) of almost £3.3 billion
http://www.airportwatch.org.uk/2014/02/heathrow-cutting-200-jobs-20-of-total-core-staff-due-to-caa-restriction-on-landing-charge-rises/
With 231 gates, that's over 300 employees per gate or over 150 employees per gate per shift assuming an average of 2 shifts.
Each employee works an avreage of five shifts per week, but with two
shifts per day, there are 14 shifts in a week. And then there are
annual leave, sick leave, and so on. So a lot less than 150 per gate
per shift.
--
jhk
Roland Perry
2018-06-28 20:43:01 UTC
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Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Each employee works an avreage of five shifts per week, but with two
shifts per day, there are 14 shifts in a week.
If shifts are 12hrs, and people work five, that's 60hrs which seems
excessive.
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
And then there are annual leave, sick leave, and so on. So a lot less
than 150 per gate
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per
departure".
--
Roland Perry
John Williamson
2018-06-28 21:00:32 UTC
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It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
Ding Bat
2018-06-28 21:50:57 UTC
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Post by John Williamson
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
1000/ employee/ year if you count passengers twice - when they arrive
and when they depart. For a passenger who both arrives and departs to
have to support 2/3rds of an employee's daily wage seems expensive.
That was the reason for the OP.

I wondered how many passengers per employee were handled by other
airports. Take Stansted airport. I paid 27 pounds to fly from Stansted
to Szczecin on Ryanair. How is the ticket so cheap if it has to cover
a substantial fraction of a worker's daily wage?
Ding Bat
2018-06-29 00:36:50 UTC
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Post by Ding Bat
Post by John Williamson
Post by Roland Perry
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with
"per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
1000/ employee/ year if you count passengers twice - when they arrive
and when they depart. For a passenger who both arrives and departs to
have to support 2/3rds of an employee's daily wage seems expensive.
That was the reason for the OP.
I wondered how many passengers per employee were handled by other
airports. Take Stansted airport. I paid 27 pounds to fly from Stansted
to Szczecin on Ryanair. How is the ticket so cheap if it has to cover
a substantial fraction of a worker's daily wage?
FWIW, there's this USA Today article:

How many people does it take to run an airport?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2016/03/30/airport-workers-employees/82385558/

63,000 people work at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. In that count, ATL includes airline, ground transportation, concessionaire, security, federal government, City of Atlanta and airport tenant employees.

That count doesn’t include workers for the courtesy vehicles for airport-area hotels, rental car companies and private parking lots; nor the drivers of public transportation such as taxis, door-to-door shuttle vans, long-distance buses, etc.
Recliner
2018-06-29 04:08:33 UTC
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Post by Ding Bat
Post by John Williamson
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
1000/ employee/ year if you count passengers twice - when they arrive
and when they depart. For a passenger who both arrives and departs to
have to support 2/3rds of an employee's daily wage seems expensive.
That was the reason for the OP.
I wondered how many passengers per employee were handled by other
airports. Take Stansted airport. I paid 27 pounds to fly from Stansted
to Szczecin on Ryanair. How is the ticket so cheap if it has to cover
a substantial fraction of a worker's daily wage?
Stansted, like Heathrow, has a lot of freight, and none of its costs are
covered by passenger fares.

Heathrow airlines tend to provide more luxuries than Ryanair (some included
in the fare, some not, but still needing staff). For example, Heathrow has
numerous staffed first and business class lounges, at least 25 in all. It
has more manned check-ins per thousand pax. Stansted has few such
facilities. Nor does it have branches of Harrods, Gordon Ramsay
restaurants, etc.

Heathrow has many long haul flights, that need more catering and other
amenities.

These are Heathrow's charges:

<https://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Company/Static/PDF/Partnersandsuppliers/HAL-Conditions-of-Use-Amendment-SCHEDULE5-Up_date-25April2014.pdf>

As you can see, it explains why you don't find Ryanair, or Ryanair-style
fares, at Heathrow.
Roland Perry
2018-06-29 06:49:29 UTC
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In message
<1209372313.551936921.409797.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 04:08:33 on Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by Ding Bat
Post by John Williamson
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
1000/ employee/ year if you count passengers twice - when they arrive
and when they depart. For a passenger who both arrives and departs to
have to support 2/3rds of an employee's daily wage seems expensive.
That was the reason for the OP.
I wondered how many passengers per employee were handled by other
airports. Take Stansted airport. I paid 27 pounds to fly from Stansted
to Szczecin on Ryanair. How is the ticket so cheap if it has to cover
a substantial fraction of a worker's daily wage?
Stansted, like Heathrow, has a lot of freight, and none of its costs are
covered by passenger fares.
Heathrow airlines tend to provide more luxuries than Ryanair (some included
in the fare, some not, but still needing staff). For example, Heathrow has
numerous staffed first and business class lounges, at least 25 in all. It
has more manned check-ins per thousand pax. Stansted has few such
facilities. Nor does it have branches of Harrods,
http://www.harrodsaviation.com/stansted.html
Post by Recliner
Gordon Ramsay restaurants, etc.
Joking apart, Stansted has several "overpriced franchise" retail and
catering outlets though.

https://www.stansted-airport-guide.co.uk/shops.html
http://www.stanstedairport.com/at-the-airport/restaurants/

James Martin is the new Gordon Ramsay, perhaps?
Post by Recliner
Heathrow has many long haul flights, that need more catering and other
amenities.
<https://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Company/Static/PDF/Partnersandsupp
liers/HAL-Conditions-of-Use-Amendment-SCHEDULE5-Up_date-25April2014.pdf>
As you can see, it explains why you don't find Ryanair, or Ryanair-style
fares, at Heathrow.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2018-06-29 06:41:01 UTC
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Post by Ding Bat
Post by John Williamson
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
1000/ employee/ year if you count passengers twice - when they arrive
and when they depart. For a passenger who both arrives and departs to
have to support 2/3rds of an employee's daily wage seems expensive.
That was the reason for the OP.
What you are forgetting is that the workers are only on-shift a fifth of
the time, so the actual number of passengers handled by each person is
fifteen per shift. (It's a bit of an artificial number because let's say
the x-ray machine operatives are handing many more than that).
Post by Ding Bat
I wondered how many passengers per employee were handled by other
airports. Take Stansted airport. I paid 27 pounds to fly from Stansted
to Szczecin on Ryanair. How is the ticket so cheap if it has to cover
a substantial fraction of a worker's daily wage?
The wages are paid from more than just the basic fares box, some of the
baggage handlers will be paid from the drip-down of the extra fees
airlines charge for checked bags, for example. Also the *average* fare
for your Ryanair trip is going to be much higher than the bargain ticket
you bought, and it's the long term average fares box which matters.

Then there's the rents of the shops, paid for by passengers buying
things/hiring cars/changing cash, which feeds through to the airport as
more revenue for all of their wages bill; in the same area advertising
revenue from bill boards within the airport; add to that car parking and
drop-off fees, and tolls for shuttle buses and maybe even taxis.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2018-06-29 04:08:33 UTC
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Post by John Williamson
It's not about gates, as people have said. More to do with "per departure".
And the number there is roughly a thousand passengers per staff member
per year, or, to put it another way, each person working at the airport
handles the equivalent of just under three passengers per day, ignoring
freight, which accounts for, at a guess, a quarter of the staff.
Each passenger, on average, probably uses the services of dozens of those
staff, even if they don't see them. For example, you don't see the baggage
handlers, ATC, cooks, CCTV operators, etc.
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