Discussion:
BA IT collapse -- what effect on ttains?
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Recliner
2017-05-27 15:26:58 UTC
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<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>

I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-05-27 18:15:25 UTC
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Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.

I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
e27002 aurora
2017-05-28 17:32:08 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Recliner
2017-05-28 19:44:38 UTC
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Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-05-28 20:23:39 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.

I also read a note, stating that BA could face a £100 million bill over
this. I wonder what IAG's balance sheet indicates.
Recliner
2017-05-28 20:39:30 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
For what it's worth, that's been denied. And this isn't how viruses usually
manifest themselves.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also read a note, stating that BA could face a £100 million bill over
this. I wonder what IAG's balance sheet indicates.
I've seen an estimate of £150m. That would have bought BA another 787-9.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-05-28 20:50:26 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
For what it's worth, that's been denied. And this isn't how viruses usually
manifest themselves.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also read a note, stating that BA could face a £100 million bill over
this. I wonder what IAG's balance sheet indicates.
I've seen an estimate of £150m. That would have bought BA another 787-9.
£150 million in what, cash, net profit ... ?
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-05-28 20:53:08 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
For what it's worth, that's been denied.
They would do.
Post by Recliner
And this isn't how viruses usually
manifest themselves.
I think that you are a computer engineer, whereas I am not. I did
mention targeted attack, however.
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also read a note, stating that BA could face a £100 million bill over
this. I wonder what IAG's balance sheet indicates.
I've seen an estimate of £150m. That would have bought BA another 787-9.
New, I'm assuming?
Recliner
2017-05-28 21:27:16 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
For what it's worth, that's been denied.
They would do.
Post by Recliner
And this isn't how viruses usually
manifest themselves.
I think that you are a computer engineer, whereas I am not. I did
mention targeted attack, however.
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I also read a note, stating that BA could face a £100 million bill over
this. I wonder what IAG's balance sheet indicates.
I've seen an estimate of £150m. That would have bought BA another 787-9.
New, I'm assuming?
Yes, with plenty of cash left over.
John Levine
2017-05-28 21:32:08 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
I doubt it. History suggests this is what happens when cost cutters
keep asking why we need all those useless redundant systems and links
that just sit there doing nothing.

R's,
John
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-05-29 00:14:58 UTC
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Post by John Levine
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
I doubt it. History suggests this is what happens when cost cutters
keep asking why we need all those useless redundant systems and links
that just sit there doing nothing.
R's,
John
How very short-sighted. Even if nothing never happens, it would give
some piece of mind.

It's similar to AWS or TPWS; Most drivers will respond to and obey
signal aspects, though in the even that they do not ...

I wonder if either BA's or IAG's insurance will help out, considering
the circumstances under which this happened.
Recliner
2017-05-29 05:23:30 UTC
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Post by John Levine
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
I can't help but wonder if this was a targetted virus attack of some sort.
I doubt it. History suggests this is what happens when cost cutters
keep asking why we need all those useless redundant systems and links
that just sit there doing nothing.
Extracts from
<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba-faces-150m-loss-after-chaos-at-heathrow-skn5df2p9?shareToken=eda797f212af8616c748134ddb1b03b0>:

British Airways is facing losses of more than £150 million after the most
serious IT failure in UK aviation history.



The airline said that a power failure took down servers hosting the “Fly”
system, which controls everything from bookings to baggage-tracking and
passport checks. BA systems collapsed last year on June 19, July 7 and
again on July 13.

Critics blamed cost-cutting by the chief executive, Alex Cruz, and
outsourcing of IT roles to India. They also said statements yesterday that
most services had returned to normal were “dishonest”. Passengers described
conditions in Heathrow as “third-world” and many could not access
information by phone or online.



Howard Wheeldon, an aviation analyst, said that predictions of a £100
million bill for compensation and recovery costs could be an under-estimate
because of the “incalculable” loss of future business owing to damage to
BA’s reputation. “It isn’t only two days,” he said. “It’s the impact on
people’s confidence.” Other experts mooted near-term losses above £150
million once the airline had paid the statutory compensation of £225 to
£540 per passenger.

BA said that the problems had started with a power failure, not a
cyberattack. The Fly system, which was introduced last year is unpopular
with staff, who find it slows down under pressure. A union survey of 700
staff last summer found that more than 90 per cent believed it was unfit
for purpose. It was unclear yesterday why a power failure could knock out
the system, but sources indicated that BA did have back-up power supplies
that failed too.

Alex Macheras, an aviation analyst, said: “I was disappointed when British
Airways claimed things were back to normal early Saturday morning. This was
simply an attempt to distract the media. In fact, Sunday was described as
‘far worse’ by airport staff I spoke to.”

A BA spokesman said: “We would never compromise the integrity and security
of our IT systems. IT services are now provided globally by a range of
suppliers and this is very common practice across all industries We are
extremely sorry for the disruption.”
tim...
2017-05-29 06:40:01 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
We obviously don't know the full story yet, but this certainly sounds like
the result of a cost cut too far (and Álex Cruz does seem to have been on a
quest to turn BA into Vueling UK).
but it's far from clear that the problem here is the offshoring

it seems to be entirely down to insufficient redundancy in their systems,
and any decision to dispense with (whatever is) industry standard redundancy
is going to have come from someone much higher up than an offshore bod.

tim
Neil Williams
2017-05-29 14:43:05 UTC
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Post by tim...
it seems to be entirely down to insufficient redundancy in their
systems, and any decision to dispense with (whatever is) industry
standard redundancy is going to have come from someone much higher up
than an offshore bod.
There isn't any as such. BA will have signed an uptime contract, the
cost of which will depend on the level of uptime desired. If that is
breached, BA will be entitled to compensation.

You can sign a no-downtime contract, but it is hugely expensive.
Aircraft on-board systems are designed in that manner.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Scott
2017-05-28 19:49:51 UTC
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On Sun, 28 May 2017 18:32:08 +0100, e27002 aurora
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
Recliner
2017-05-28 20:10:12 UTC
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Post by Scott
On Sun, 28 May 2017 18:32:08 +0100, e27002 aurora
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS and ample backup
power, plus, perhaps duplicated grid connections.

But whatever the fault, it probably is a consequence of excessive
cost-cutting. And I bet the money saved is dwarfed by the estimated £150m
cost of this fiasco. I think señor Cruz has done more than enough damage to
BA, and it's time the cost of his job was saved.
Roland Perry
2017-05-29 08:43:37 UTC
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mber.org>, at 20:10:12 on Sun, 28 May 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
Post by Recliner
and ample backup power, plus, perhaps duplicated grid connections.
Yes, they should have duplicated grid connections, although that ca be
challenging if the reason the datacentre has been located where it is
results from a local power source (a hydro dam is a common example).

But even with all the precautions, it's well nigh impossible to exclude
every single-point-of-failure, which can easily be in the equipment
which manages the redistribution of power during an outage.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2017-05-29 14:46:34 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
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mber.org>, at 20:10:12 on Sun, 28 May 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
If it's business-critical, generators to power for an indefinite period
(provided fuel is added) should be present.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
s***@potato.field
2017-05-29 16:32:48 UTC
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On Mon, 29 May 2017 15:46:34 +0100
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 20:10:12 on Sun, 28 May 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
If it's business-critical, generators to power for an indefinite period
(provided fuel is added) should be present.
Indeed. Whether it was a UPS failure, a generator failure, a DC bus failure
or a cat pissed on the routers, there should have been a backup site to
take over in a situation like this. There wasn't, presumably to cut costs
and that decision comes from the top. Well you reep what you sow. I'd be very
surprised if Mr Cruz is still in his job this time next month.

On a related note, why the hell do people travel on a bank holiday anyway?
Is that extra free day off work really worth all the stress and hassle of
the train/air/ship delays or the 10 mile traffic jams?
--
Spud
tim...
2017-05-30 11:46:27 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Mon, 29 May 2017 15:46:34 +0100
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 20:10:12 on Sun, 28 May 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
If it's business-critical, generators to power for an indefinite period
(provided fuel is added) should be present.
Indeed. Whether it was a UPS failure, a generator failure, a DC bus failure
or a cat pissed on the routers, there should have been a backup site to
take over in a situation like this. There wasn't, presumably to cut costs
and that decision comes from the top. Well you reep what you sow. I'd be very
surprised if Mr Cruz is still in his job this time next month.
On a related note, why the hell do people travel on a bank holiday anyway?
Is that extra free day off work really worth all the stress and hassle of
the train/air/ship delays or the 10 mile traffic jams?
It's been like that for at least 40 years

so obviously some people think that it is

tim
s***@potato.field
2017-05-30 15:16:03 UTC
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On Tue, 30 May 2017 12:46:27 +0100
Post by tim...
Post by s***@potato.field
On Mon, 29 May 2017 15:46:34 +0100
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 20:10:12 on Sun, 28 May 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
If it's business-critical, generators to power for an indefinite period
(provided fuel is added) should be present.
Indeed. Whether it was a UPS failure, a generator failure, a DC bus failure
or a cat pissed on the routers, there should have been a backup site to
take over in a situation like this. There wasn't, presumably to cut costs
and that decision comes from the top. Well you reep what you sow. I'd be very
surprised if Mr Cruz is still in his job this time next month.
On a related note, why the hell do people travel on a bank holiday anyway?
Is that extra free day off work really worth all the stress and hassle of
the train/air/ship delays or the 10 mile traffic jams?
It's been like that for at least 40 years
so obviously some people think that it is
I suppose when you consider how low the average IQ is then realise that half
the population are even dumber than that I guess it should come as no surprise.
--
Spud
Roland Perry
2017-05-29 18:07:23 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
If it's business-critical, generators to power for an indefinite period
(provided fuel is added) should be present.
Yes, but that's not a UPS.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2017-05-29 20:23:22 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Recliner
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS
But unlikely to have hours worth of UPS.
If it's business-critical, generators to power for an indefinite period
(provided fuel is added) should be present.
Yes, but that's not a UPS.
You obviously need both, as I said in my post upthread, and as everyone
posting in this thread well understands. There's no need for you to
nit-pick. The UPS takes over the instant mains power is lost, but the
backup diesel and/or gas turbine gennies should be on-line within minutes.
They should be capable of running the whole data centre indefinitely.
tim...
2017-05-29 06:50:51 UTC
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Post by Scott
On Sun, 28 May 2017 18:32:08 +0100, e27002 aurora
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
according to El Reg

"BA has a very large IT infrastructure; it has over 500 data cabinets spread
across six halls in two different sites near its Heathrow Waterside HQ"
Scott
2017-05-29 09:20:08 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by Scott
On Sun, 28 May 2017 18:32:08 +0100, e27002 aurora
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
according to El Reg
"BA has a very large IT infrastructure; it has over 500 data cabinets spread
across six halls in two different sites near its Heathrow Waterside HQ"
The obvious question then is whether any other part of the Heathrow
area suffered power supply problems.
Graeme Wall
2017-05-29 09:28:11 UTC
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Post by Scott
Post by tim...
Post by Scott
On Sun, 28 May 2017 18:32:08 +0100, e27002 aurora
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back home
when they either give up or realise that they are not going to fly out
today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and out of
London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly Line
trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The same
goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
according to El Reg
"BA has a very large IT infrastructure; it has over 500 data cabinets spread
across six halls in two different sites near its Heathrow Waterside HQ"
The obvious question then is whether any other part of the Heathrow
area suffered power supply problems.
Heathrow Waterside is a separate industrial estate just off the A4 to
the north west of the airport (roughly where they want to put the third
runway! Apart from BA the only other occupants appear to be a branch of
Waitrose and a hair dressers.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2017-05-29 09:44:43 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
Heathrow Waterside is a separate industrial estate just off the A4 to
the north west of the airport (roughly where they want to put the third
runway! Apart from BA the only other occupants appear to be a branch
of Waitrose
Can you buy lemon-soaked napkins at Waitrose?
Post by Graeme Wall
and a hair dressers.
But no telephone sanitisers?
--
Roland Perry
Graeme Wall
2017-05-29 12:15:22 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
Heathrow Waterside is a separate industrial estate just off the A4 to
the north west of the airport (roughly where they want to put the
third runway! Apart from BA the only other occupants appear to be a
branch of Waitrose
Can you buy lemon-soaked napkins at Waitrose?
Eventually, if you wait long enough.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Graeme Wall
and a hair dressers.
But no telephone sanitisers?
Not listed, they may have died out.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Roland Perry
2017-05-29 09:42:16 UTC
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Post by Scott
Post by tim...
Post by Scott
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
according to El Reg
"BA has a very large IT infrastructure; it has over 500 data cabinets spread
across six halls in two different sites near its Heathrow Waterside HQ"
The obvious question then is whether any other part of the Heathrow
area suffered power supply problems.
The power feed into the building is only the beginning of the sequence
of potential points-of-failure.
--
Roland Perry
Scott
2017-05-29 09:54:25 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Scott
Post by tim...
Post by Scott
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
according to El Reg
"BA has a very large IT infrastructure; it has over 500 data cabinets spread
across six halls in two different sites near its Heathrow Waterside HQ"
The obvious question then is whether any other part of the Heathrow
area suffered power supply problems.
The power feed into the building is only the beginning of the sequence
of potential points-of-failure.
True. I thought of this after I posted. The 'power supply' in my
computer here is not the same as the power supply to my house.
Roland Perry
2017-05-29 10:22:02 UTC
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Post by Scott
Post by Roland Perry
The power feed into the building is only the beginning of the sequence
of potential points-of-failure.
True. I thought of this after I posted. The 'power supply' in my
computer here is not the same as the power supply to my house.
Yes, I've got a 6hr laptop plugged into a UPS, which if the laptop power
supply was the only[1] sink would last another day. Mifi-style mobile
connectivity through a mast on a different substation, and that's most
of my continuity issues solved.

Doesn't scale to whole datacentres, though.

[1] About one minute's unplugging of other stuff.
--
Roland Perry
Mike Tomlinson
2017-06-03 11:02:56 UTC
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Post by Scott
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
No, the main DC is in Boadicea House, just to the east of the ends of
the Heathrow runways.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West
Graeme Wall
2017-06-03 11:21:59 UTC
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Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Scott
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
No, the main DC is in Boadicea House, just to the east of the ends of
the Heathrow runways.
So what's over at Waterside?
--
Graeme Wall
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Mike Tomlinson
2017-06-03 14:03:58 UTC
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Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.

<https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/British+Airways+Waterside+HQ/@51.48
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>

The primary datacentre at Boadicea House is a hangover from the days
when BA used to be BOAC.

<https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Heathrow+Airport+%28LHR%29/@51.4712
344,-0.4243124,210m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48767234cdc56de9:0x8fe7535
543f64167!8m2!3d51.4700223!4d-0.4542955>

<https://www.architecture.com/image-library/ribapix/image-
information/poster/boadicea-house-boac-computer-building-heathrow-
airport-london/posterid/RIBA62458.html>

<Loading Image...>

Sorry for the long URLs, I couldn't be arsed tinyurl'ing them.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West
Recliner
2017-06-03 14:10:50 UTC
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Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>
And destined to be disappear under the third runway.
Post by Mike Tomlinson
The primary datacentre at Boadicea House is a hangover from the days
when BA used to be BOAC.
344,-0.4243124,210m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48767234cdc56de9:0x8fe7535
543f64167!8m2!3d51.4700223!4d-0.4542955>
<https://www.architecture.com/image-library/ribapix/image-
information/poster/boadicea-house-boac-computer-building-heathrow-
airport-london/posterid/RIBA62458.html>
<https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2570823057_cc49e1f290_b.jpg>
Sorry for the long URLs, I couldn't be arsed tinyurl'ing them.
The reports say two data centres were affected -- I wonder if the other was
BEA's?
Chris J Dixon
2017-06-03 14:54:21 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>
And destined to be disappear under the third runway.
I don't think they were expecting that. ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk

Plant amazing Acers.
Graeme Wall
2017-06-03 15:23:25 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>
And destined to be disappear under the third runway.
Post by Mike Tomlinson
The primary datacentre at Boadicea House is a hangover from the days
when BA used to be BOAC.
344,-0.4243124,210m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48767234cdc56de9:0x8fe7535
543f64167!8m2!3d51.4700223!4d-0.4542955>
<https://www.architecture.com/image-library/ribapix/image-
information/poster/boadicea-house-boac-computer-building-heathrow-
airport-london/posterid/RIBA62458.html>
<https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2570823057_cc49e1f290_b.jpg>
Sorry for the long URLs, I couldn't be arsed tinyurl'ing them.
The reports say two data centres were affected -- I wonder if the other was
BEA's?
Not sure that BEA had one in the modern sense.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Theo
2017-06-03 15:29:58 UTC
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Post by Recliner
The reports say two data centres were affected -- I wonder if the other was
BEA's?
Probably not, that was on top of the Circle & District:
https://rbkclocalstudies.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/forgotten-buildings-the-west-london-air-terminal/

Theo
Recliner
2017-06-03 19:43:13 UTC
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Post by Theo
Post by Recliner
The reports say two data centres were affected -- I wonder if the other was
BEA's?
https://rbkclocalstudies.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/forgotten-buildings-the-west-london-air-terminal/
Ah, I knew about the old air terminal, but didn't know it also housed what
was probably then called the computer centre. I also hadn't realised the
old building still existed, converted into flats.
Richard J.
2017-06-03 21:49:59 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>
And destined to be disappear under the third runway.
Post by Mike Tomlinson
The primary datacentre at Boadicea House is a hangover from the days
when BA used to be BOAC.
344,-0.4243124,210m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48767234cdc56de9:0x8fe7535
543f64167!8m2!3d51.4700223!4d-0.4542955>
<https://www.architecture.com/image-library/ribapix/image-
information/poster/boadicea-house-boac-computer-building-heathrow-
airport-london/posterid/RIBA62458.html>
<https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2570823057_cc49e1f290_b.jpg>
Sorry for the long URLs, I couldn't be arsed tinyurl'ing them.
The reports say two data centres were affected -- I wonder if the other was
BEA's?
I've seen reference to somewhere called Cranebank, which is also BA's flight training centre just east of the northern runway at Heathrow. As I understand it, the second data centre was "affected" to the extent that it didn't take over operations after the Boadicea House systems stopped working. All the signs are that their business-critical IT system is grossly lacking in resilience. I do hope that the company's board insists on an independent review of the catastrophe.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
Recliner
2017-06-03 22:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard J.
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>
And destined to be disappear under the third runway.
Post by Mike Tomlinson
The primary datacentre at Boadicea House is a hangover from the days
when BA used to be BOAC.
344,-0.4243124,210m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48767234cdc56de9:0x8fe7535
543f64167!8m2!3d51.4700223!4d-0.4542955>
<https://www.architecture.com/image-library/ribapix/image-
information/poster/boadicea-house-boac-computer-building-heathrow-
airport-london/posterid/RIBA62458.html>
<https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2570823057_cc49e1f290_b.jpg>
Sorry for the long URLs, I couldn't be arsed tinyurl'ing them.
The reports say two data centres were affected -- I wonder if the other was
BEA's?
I've seen reference to somewhere called Cranebank, which is also BA's
flight training centre just east of the northern runway at Heathrow. As
I understand it, the second data centre was "affected" to the extent that
it didn't take over operations after the Boadicea House systems stopped
working. All the signs are that their business-critical IT system is
grossly lacking in resilience. I do hope that the company's board
insists on an independent review of the catastrophe.
Yes, definitely. The obvious question that must be answered is whether the
CEO's aggressive cost-cutting led to this disaster. Previous cost cutting
didn't lead to a worse or less reliable service for BA's customers, but
that's changed with Señor Cruz, who's been busily turning BA into Vueling
UK.

Graeme Wall
2017-06-03 15:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Tomlinson
Post by Graeme Wall
So what's over at Waterside?
Their main HQ, apparently. Suits, finance, customer disservice, etc.
5436,-0.487028,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x5e40cb0e56d6af7b!8m2!3d51.48543
6!4d-0.487028>
The primary datacentre at Boadicea House is a hangover from the days
when BA used to be BOAC.
Wasn't Boadicea the name of BOAC's first computer IIRC?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
D A Stocks
2017-05-27 22:20:51 UTC
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Post by Recliner
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-systems-crash-across-world-causing/>
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew out
from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal on Friday.
But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving Heathrow and Gatwick?
Looking at Realtime Trains just about everything at Gatwick looks to have
been on time throughout the day, but I'm not sure how 'normal' that is!

--
DAS
r***@cix.co.uk
2017-05-28 23:50:05 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
Post by Scott
On Sun, 28 May 2017 18:32:08 +0100, e27002 aurora
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/27/british-airways-chaos-computer-sy
stems-crash-across-world-causing/>
Post by Recliner
Post by Scott
Post by e27002 aurora
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
I'm certainly glad I wasn't flying today! All was smooth when I flew
out from Heathrow on Wednesday, and I hope it will be back to normal
on Friday. But I wonder what effect it's had on trains serving
Heathrow and Gatwick?
Possibly longer dwell times at Gatwick Airport as people turn back
home when they either give up or realise that they are not going to
fly out today? This might have a knock-on effect on schedules into and
out of London.
I think that the effects would be as bad at Heathrow as Piccadilly
Line trains have extended dwell times at all the stations, IIRC. The
same goes for HEX trains, yes?
So cheap offshore IT work has gone well for BA? :-)
Are they not claiming it's a power supply issue? Is the hardware
offshore as well?
That's why it's not wise to make precise accusations at this stage. Of
course, any professional data centre shouldn't collapse for most of a day
if there's a power supply problem. It should have UPS and ample backup
power, plus, perhaps duplicated grid connections.
But whatever the fault, it probably is a consequence of excessive
cost-cutting. And I bet the money saved is dwarfed by the estimated £150m
cost of this fiasco. I think señor Cruz has done more than enough damage
to BA, and it's time the cost of his job was saved.
What it can't be is offshoring people. This is a DR issue which necessarily
relies on UK-based people. They may have been cut too far too, or the
resilience hardware more likely.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
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