Discussion:
Departing Stock
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Recliner
2017-04-18 20:22:01 UTC
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Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.

After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-18 21:26:19 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
Indeed so. A working timetable diagram has been announced but not confirmed.
It starts at Upminster at 0624 with runs to Richmond and back arriving at
Upminster at 1623, departing 1635 to Ealing Broadway at 1812. I fear we
won't know if it's actually running then on Friday morning.

The May 7 tour tickets went on sale only this morning and are almost sold
out, despite costing £50, with space in only one car of six still available.
Post by Recliner
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
Maybe. With the current cost of new rolling stock, I wouldn't count on it. I
mean, if brand new SWT class 707s can be discarded...
--
Colin Rosenstiel
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-24 01:23:11 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
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Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
Indeed so. A working timetable diagram has been announced but not
confirmed. It starts at Upminster at 0624 with runs to Richmond and
back arriving at Upminster at 1623, departing 1635 to Ealing Broadway
at 1812. I fear we won't know if it's actually running then on Friday
morning.
Well, as no doubt many here know by now, it did run as train 4 as planned. I
joined it a bit after 12:23 at Aldgate East eastbound, as did 3 others (not
hard to spot people waiting on the platform :-)). I then rode it to
Upminster, back to Richmond, back to Upminster and from there to Ealing
Broadway. It got pretty crowded at the front at times! Before I joined it,
it had accumulated 20 minutes of delays and been turned short at Gunnersbury
on the westbound trip before the eastbound I joined.

We got a bonus rare track move when the final run was put through the West
Ham siding westbound to allow trains (3 in the end) to pass us to presumably
avoid it to get too crowded. That siding has a diagrammed H&C working but
only eastbound. So few will have used the westbound crossovers to access it.

My photos and videos can be found at
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ala9fuC_-7GhrvVNsBl24rZh7CLVOw.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
The May 7 tour tickets went on sale only this morning and are almost
sold out, despite costing £50, with space in only one car of six
still available.
All gone now.

I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it was
running as a real circle again this weekend.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Basil Jet
2017-04-24 04:23:06 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
Indeed so. A working timetable diagram has been announced but not
confirmed. It starts at Upminster at 0624 with runs to Richmond and
back arriving at Upminster at 1623, departing 1635 to Ealing Broadway
at 1812. I fear we won't know if it's actually running then on Friday
morning.
Well, as no doubt many here know by now, it did run as train 4 as planned. I
joined it a bit after 12:23 at Aldgate East eastbound, as did 3 others (not
hard to spot people waiting on the platform :-)). I then rode it to
Upminster, back to Richmond, back to Upminster and from there to Ealing
Broadway. It got pretty crowded at the front at times! Before I joined it,
it had accumulated 20 minutes of delays and been turned short at Gunnersbury
on the westbound trip before the eastbound I joined.
We got a bonus rare track move when the final run was put through the West
Ham siding westbound to allow trains (3 in the end) to pass us to presumably
avoid it to get too crowded. That siding has a diagrammed H&C working but
only eastbound. So few will have used the westbound crossovers to access it.
My photos and videos can be found at
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ala9fuC_-7GhrvVNsBl24rZh7CLVOw.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
The May 7 tour tickets went on sale only this morning and are almost
sold out, despite costing £50, with space in only one car of six
still available.
All gone now.
I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it was
running as a real circle again this weekend.
Do you know how long it is taking to go around? Is there a four minute
wait at Edgware Road?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-24 10:37:19 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it was
running as a real circle again this weekend.
Do you know how long it is taking to go around? Is there a four
minute wait at Edgware Road?
I don't know, I'm afraid. Mine didn't wait as long as 4 minutes I think but
the stop was slightly extended to allow a westbound Hammersmith & City train
to depart from platform 3 first. The centre platforms were reallocated for
the duration, with Wimbleware trains reversing in platform 2, the usual
Circle terminating platform while H&C trains were reversing from west to
eastbound in platform 3, usually the Wimbleware platform since the tea cup.
They didn't seem to have changed or annotated the platform signs though.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jarle Hammen Knudsen
2017-04-24 12:52:41 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it was
running as a real circle again this weekend.
Do you know how long it is taking to go around? Is there a four
minute wait at Edgware Road?
I don't know, I'm afraid. Mine didn't wait as long as 4 minutes I think but
the stop was slightly extended to allow a westbound Hammersmith & City train
to depart from platform 3 first.
Westbound H&C train?
The "Weekend travel information" email said:
"Hammersmith & City line
Trains will not run between Edgware Road and Hammersmith. This is to
allow us to test new signalling and replace track at Latimer Road."
--
jhk
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-24 15:20:10 UTC
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Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it
was running as a real circle again this weekend.
Do you know how long it is taking to go around? Is there a four
minute wait at Edgware Road?
I don't know, I'm afraid. Mine didn't wait as long as 4 minutes I think
but the stop was slightly extended to allow a westbound Hammersmith &
City train to depart from platform 3 first.
Westbound H&C train?
"Hammersmith & City line
Trains will not run between Edgware Road and Hammersmith. This is to
allow us to test new signalling and replace track at Latimer Road."
I meant to write eastbound. I thought that would be clear from the context.
Sorry.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jarle Hammen Knudsen
2017-05-01 15:06:27 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it
was running as a real circle again this weekend.
Do you know how long it is taking to go around? Is there a four
minute wait at Edgware Road?
I don't know, I'm afraid. Mine didn't wait as long as 4 minutes I think
but the stop was slightly extended to allow a westbound Hammersmith &
City train to depart from platform 3 first.
Westbound H&C train?
"Hammersmith & City line
Trains will not run between Edgware Road and Hammersmith. This is to
allow us to test new signalling and replace track at Latimer Road."
I meant to write eastbound. I thought that would be clear from the context.
Sorry.
The previous weekend's email had alternative facts regarding the
Hammersmith branch, that's why I commented on this.
--
jhk
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-05-01 21:18:07 UTC
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Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Basil Jet
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I also got the chance to travel on the Circle on Saturday while it
was running as a real circle again this weekend.
Do you know how long it is taking to go around? Is there a four
minute wait at Edgware Road?
I don't know, I'm afraid. Mine didn't wait as long as 4 minutes I
think but the stop was slightly extended to allow a westbound
Hammersmith & City train to depart from platform 3 first.
"Hammersmith & City line Trains will not run between Edgware Road and
Hammersmith. This is to allow us to test new signalling and replace
track at Latimer Road."
I meant to write eastbound. I thought that would be clear from the
context. Sorry.
The previous weekend's email had alternative facts regarding the
Hammersmith branch, that's why I commented on this.
I understand alternative facts are very fashionable these days.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Basil Jet
2017-04-25 13:36:09 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Well, as no doubt many here know by now, it did run as train 4 as planned.
Vicky Pipe's video, including a guy wearing D-Stock moquette trainers!

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-26 01:36:19 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Well, as no doubt many here know by now, it did run as train 4 as planned.
Vicky Pipe's video, including a guy wearing D-Stock moquette trainers!
http://youtu.be/-LzbPuyd9Og
Ah! Nostalgia! I was around the bit with the scarves and reproduced 1980
launch photo bit but not on camera it seems.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-04-18 22:10:35 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Recliner
2017-04-18 22:45:50 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light till much
later.

Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
s***@potato.field
2017-04-19 08:34:27 UTC
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On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:45:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light till much
later.
IMO the main weakness is using van engines at all. Safety issues aside long
term reliabilty is going to be a serious issue as these engines were never
designed to be worked at max power for hours on end then spend another few
hours idling almost 365 days a year. Their capacity is small meaning the
max power rpm will be much higher than normal railway diesels and hence
increased wear and tear. I'm sure the company would point to the ability
to swap out the engines but really, who is going to want to spend the time
and money replacing knackered engines every few years?
--
Spud
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-19 21:14:24 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:45:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in
normal service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on
7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on
new routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light till
much later.
IMO the main weakness is using van engines at all. Safety issues aside
long term reliabilty is going to be a serious issue as these engines were
never designed to be worked at max power for hours on end then spend
another few hours idling almost 365 days a year. Their capacity is small
meaning the max power rpm will be much higher than normal railway diesels
and hence increased wear and tear. I'm sure the company would point to the
ability to swap out the engines but really, who is going to want to spend
the time and money replacing knackered engines every few years?
I thought they'd managed to get diesels that don't need to be left idling
all the time these days?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-04-19 22:25:38 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:45:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in
normal service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on
7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on
new routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light till
much later.
IMO the main weakness is using van engines at all. Safety issues aside
long term reliabilty is going to be a serious issue as these engines were
never designed to be worked at max power for hours on end then spend
another few hours idling almost 365 days a year. Their capacity is small
meaning the max power rpm will be much higher than normal railway diesels
and hence increased wear and tear. I'm sure the company would point to the
ability to swap out the engines but really, who is going to want to spend
the time and money replacing knackered engines every few years?
I thought they'd managed to get diesels that don't need to be left idling
all the time these days?
Yes. Though I suppose one of the four power packs may need to be left
running at a terminus. And the D-train's duties certainly won't involve
running at "max power for hours on end".
Roland Perry
2017-04-19 10:32:13 UTC
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<581420639.514247473.928022.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-septe
mber.org>, at 22:45:50 on Tue, 18 Apr 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light
That's an unfortunate turn of phrase :)
Post by Recliner
till much later.
Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
Greater Anglia's battery-EMU project has disappeared without trace.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2017-04-19 11:42:55 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
In message
mber.org>, at 22:45:50 on Tue, 18 Apr 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on new
routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light
That's an unfortunate turn of phrase :)
Post by Recliner
till much later.
Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
Greater Anglia's battery-EMU project has disappeared without trace.
It was a trial that tested what it was supposed to. It found that the
technology works, but battery costs need to come down more to get a
reasonable range on the batteries. It's really no different to
electric road vehicles: if you want a decent range and performance,
they cost a lot (see Tesla vs Leaf).

Perhaps the battery D-train (or is that E-train?) will keep costs down
by having smaller battery packs, which may be adequate for its lower
speed and shorter range?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-19 21:14:24 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
In message
september.org>, at 22:45:50 on Tue, 18 Apr 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
Greater Anglia's battery-EMU project has disappeared without trace.
It was a trial that tested what it was supposed to. It found that the
technology works, but battery costs need to come down more to get a
reasonable range on the batteries. It's really no different to
electric road vehicles: if you want a decent range and performance,
they cost a lot (see Tesla vs Leaf).
Perhaps the battery D-train (or is that E-train?) will keep costs down
by having smaller battery packs, which may be adequate for its lower
speed and shorter range?
It will be interesting to see. All current battery trials are based on
partial mains operation.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-04-20 10:03:20 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Roland Perry
In message
september.org>, at 22:45:50 on Tue, 18 Apr 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
Greater Anglia's battery-EMU project has disappeared without trace.
It was a trial that tested what it was supposed to. It found that the
technology works, but battery costs need to come down more to get a
reasonable range on the batteries. It's really no different to
electric road vehicles: if you want a decent range and performance,
they cost a lot (see Tesla vs Leaf).
Perhaps the battery D-train (or is that E-train?) will keep costs down
by having smaller battery packs, which may be adequate for its lower
speed and shorter range?
It will be interesting to see. All current battery trials are based on
partial mains operation.
Yes, I don't know how, and how often, they plan to recharge these
batteries.
Basil Jet
2017-04-19 10:58:12 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline.
But is the pipeline fireproof?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-19 00:22:13 UTC
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Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on
new routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and
eventual entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light till much
later.
That was to have been a trial with LM in the West Midlands, surely?
Post by Recliner
Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
Looking forward to it.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-04-19 01:04:33 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in normal
service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them on
new routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and
eventual entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline. The
EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order, even
without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it uncovered a
number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to light till much
later.
That was to have been a trial with LM in the West Midlands, surely?
Yes, sorry, I got the wrong TOC. It was indeed London Midland.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Vivarail also has a battery version entering test.
Looking forward to it.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-20 00:27:15 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:45:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in
normal service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour
on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them
on new routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline.
The EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order,
even without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it
uncovered a number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to
light till much later.
IMO the main weakness is using van engines at all. Safety issues aside
long term reliabilty is going to be a serious issue as these engines
were never designed to be worked at max power for hours on end then
spend another few hours idling almost 365 days a year. Their capacity
is small meaning the max power rpm will be much higher than normal
railway diesels and hence increased wear and tear. I'm sure the company
would point to the ability to swap out the engines but really, who is
going to want to spend the time and money replacing knackered engines
every few years?
I thought they'd managed to get diesels that don't need to be left
idling all the time these days?
Yes. Though I suppose one of the four power packs may need to be left
running at a terminus. And the D-train's duties certainly won't involve
running at "max power for hours on end".
It must be noted from the reports on the fire that there are genuine issues
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-04-20 00:44:06 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 22:45:50 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Apparently this Frday (21st) will be the last for the D-stock in
normal service in London. I believe there will be a farewell tour
on 7 May.
After that, of course, there may be opportnities to travel on them
on new routes, with an unfamiliar diesel rumble under the floor.
What are their further prospects for conversion to DMUs and eventual
entrance into revenue service, especially after the fire?
Adrian Shooter seems optimistic that more orders are in the pipeline.
The EMT trial would not, in any case, have led to a significant order,
even without the fire. In a way, the fire was a good thing, as it
uncovered a number of weaknesses that might not otherwise have come to
light till much later.
IMO the main weakness is using van engines at all. Safety issues aside
long term reliabilty is going to be a serious issue as these engines
were never designed to be worked at max power for hours on end then
spend another few hours idling almost 365 days a year. Their capacity
is small meaning the max power rpm will be much higher than normal
railway diesels and hence increased wear and tear. I'm sure the company
would point to the ability to swap out the engines but really, who is
going to want to spend the time and money replacing knackered engines
every few years?
I thought they'd managed to get diesels that don't need to be left
idling all the time these days?
Yes. Though I suppose one of the four power packs may need to be left
running at a terminus. And the D-train's duties certainly won't involve
running at "max power for hours on end".
It must be noted from the reports on the fire that there are genuine issues
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job, but
how it's mounted in the power pack (plumbing, wiring, fire-proofing, etc)
is at least as important.
s***@potato.field
2017-04-20 08:15:11 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:44:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job, but
Proven on the road maybe. Pulling a 2 ton flatbed on the road is completely
different to working as a generator.
--
Spud
Recliner
2017-04-20 08:35:54 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:44:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job, but
Proven on the road maybe. Pulling a 2 ton flatbed on the road is completely
different to working as a generator.
In what way, exactly?
s***@potato.field
2017-04-20 12:50:08 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:35:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:44:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job, but
Proven on the road maybe. Pulling a 2 ton flatbed on the road is completely
different to working as a generator.
In what way, exactly?
Stop trolling.
--
Spud
Recliner
2017-04-20 13:02:09 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:35:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:44:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job, but
Proven on the road maybe. Pulling a 2 ton flatbed on the road is completely
different to working as a generator.
In what way, exactly?
Stop trolling.
Trolling? You're very good at asking questions, but you're rather
short on answers. Here's your chance to explain exactly why a Class
230 duty cycle will be more onerous than white van man thrashing it
all day.
s***@potato.field
2017-04-20 13:43:59 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:02:09 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:35:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:44:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job,
but
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
Proven on the road maybe. Pulling a 2 ton flatbed on the road is completely
different to working as a generator.
In what way, exactly?
Stop trolling.
Trolling? You're very good at asking questions, but you're rather
short on answers. Here's your chance to explain exactly why a Class
What question did I ask exactly?
Post by Recliner
230 duty cycle will be more onerous than white van man thrashing it
all day.
Van man will only be thrashing it for an hour or 2 each day. The rest of the
time it'll be parked up outside the building site or wherever. It won't be
trying to accelerate and maintain the speed of 10 tons of carriage most of
the day then spend the rest of its time idling since apparently train drivers
don't know where the off switch is it would seem. This isn't a static generator
generating a constant 240V at a constant RPM, its got a duty cycle and it'll
be a hard one for a small road vehicle engine.
--
Spud
Recliner
2017-04-20 14:04:35 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:02:09 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:35:54 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 00:44:06 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
with making the power packs compatible with a rail traction environment.
Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job,
but
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
Proven on the road maybe. Pulling a 2 ton flatbed on the road is completely
different to working as a generator.
In what way, exactly?
Stop trolling.
Trolling? You're very good at asking questions, but you're rather
short on answers. Here's your chance to explain exactly why a Class
What question did I ask exactly?
Post by Recliner
230 duty cycle will be more onerous than white van man thrashing it
all day.
Van man will only be thrashing it for an hour or 2 each day. The rest of the
time it'll be parked up outside the building site or wherever. It won't be
trying to accelerate and maintain the speed of 10 tons of carriage most of
the day then spend the rest of its time idling since apparently train drivers
don't know where the off switch is it would seem. This isn't a static generator
generating a constant 240V at a constant RPM, its got a duty cycle and it'll
be a hard one for a small road vehicle engine.
Train engines work hard to get the train up to crusing speed (60 mph for
these trains). That takes a few minutes. The rest of the time they're
producing very little power. The engines will cut out automatically when
power isn't needed, just as road vehicles do.
s***@potato.field
2017-04-20 14:41:20 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Train engines work hard to get the train up to crusing speed (60 mph for
these trains). That takes a few minutes. The rest of the time they're
producing very little power. The engines will cut out automatically when
power isn't needed, just as road vehicles do.
Road vehicles can get away with that because the transmission keeps the
engine spinning so no restart is needed - the ECU simply starts injecting
fuel again. That won't work with a generator engine.
--
Spud
Recliner
2017-04-20 14:48:42 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Train engines work hard to get the train up to crusing speed (60 mph for
these trains). That takes a few minutes. The rest of the time they're
producing very little power. The engines will cut out automatically when
power isn't needed, just as road vehicles do.
Road vehicles can get away with that because the transmission keeps the
engine spinning so no restart is needed - the ECU simply starts injecting
fuel again. That won't work with a generator engine.
Mostly the engines stop in road vehicles when the vehicle is
stationary, so the starter motor is needed. With the generator
modules, I wonder if they can use the generator as the starter motor?
If not, then they just have a conventional starter.
s***@potato.field
2017-04-20 15:39:05 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:48:42 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Train engines work hard to get the train up to crusing speed (60 mph for
these trains). That takes a few minutes. The rest of the time they're
producing very little power. The engines will cut out automatically when
power isn't needed, just as road vehicles do.
Road vehicles can get away with that because the transmission keeps the
engine spinning so no restart is needed - the ECU simply starts injecting
fuel again. That won't work with a generator engine.
Mostly the engines stop in road vehicles when the vehicle is
stationary, so the starter motor is needed. With the generator
I don't think many vans have start/stop though I could be wrong.
Post by Recliner
modules, I wonder if they can use the generator as the starter motor?
More than likely.
--
Spud
Recliner
2017-04-20 18:34:47 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:48:42 +0100
Post by Recliner
Post by s***@potato.field
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 14:04:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Train engines work hard to get the train up to crusing speed (60 mph for
these trains). That takes a few minutes. The rest of the time they're
producing very little power. The engines will cut out automatically when
power isn't needed, just as road vehicles do.
Road vehicles can get away with that because the transmission keeps the
engine spinning so no restart is needed - the ECU simply starts injecting
fuel again. That won't work with a generator engine.
Mostly the engines stop in road vehicles when the vehicle is
stationary, so the starter motor is needed. With the generator
I don't think many vans have start/stop though I could be wrong.
http://www.ford.co.uk/experience-ford/AboutFord/News/VehicleNews/2011/2012TransitPowertrain?fullsite=true
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Recliner
modules, I wonder if they can use the generator as the starter motor?
More than likely.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-04-20 00:52:48 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
It must be noted from the reports on the fire that there are
genuine issues with making the power packs compatible with a rail
traction environment. Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job,
but how it's mounted in the power pack (plumbing, wiring, fire-proofing,
etc) is at least as important.
The other point being that systems regarded as adequate for the roads most
definitely aren't acceptable as safe for rail use. We put up with incredibly
low safety standards in road vehicles.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
s***@potato.field
2017-04-20 08:16:26 UTC
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On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 19:52:48 -0500
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
It must be noted from the reports on the fire that there are
genuine issues with making the power packs compatible with a rail
traction environment. Fascinating.
Yes, and they'd clearly not put enough effort into the task. Vivarail seem
to have tried to simply outsource the whole power pack to a local firm,
which obviously bodged it. The proven Ford engine may be up to the job,
but how it's mounted in the power pack (plumbing, wiring, fire-proofing,
etc) is at least as important.
The other point being that systems regarded as adequate for the roads most
definitely aren't acceptable as safe for rail use. We put up with incredibly
low safety standards in road vehicles.
Given 50% of cars still run on petrol which has a highly explosive vapour I
think any other engine safety issues pale into insignificance.
--
Spud
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