Discussion:
Widened lines moorgate spur
(too old to reply)
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-21 15:55:28 UTC
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The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that the met line
has finally been linked up with the remains of the widened lines at moorgate
via a spur at farringdon. Anyway know if this has happened yet? I haven't been
there in over a year but last time I went there was a deep hole in the PW
for crossrail just west of barbican station.
David Cantrell
2017-11-22 12:20:35 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that the met line
has finally been linked up with the remains of the widened lines at moorgate
via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
--
David Cantrell | Cake Smuggler Extraordinaire

Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel so special now!
-- Dan Sugalski
Someone Somewhere
2017-11-22 12:30:06 UTC
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Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that the met line
has finally been linked up with the remains of the widened lines at moorgate
via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-22 13:02:48 UTC
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Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that the
met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the widened
lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-11-22 13:23:23 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that the
met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the widened
lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
I believe that's correct. The sidings will be long enough for S8
trains, though normally only S7s will be stabled there.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-22 13:49:40 UTC
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:23:23 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that the
met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the widened
lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
I believe that's correct. The sidings will be long enough for S8
trains, though normally only S7s will be stabled there.
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry passengers
or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-22 15:02:59 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:23:23 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that
the met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the
widened lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
I believe that's correct. The sidings will be long enough for S8
trains, though normally only S7s will be stabled there.
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry
passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-11-22 16:26:34 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:23:23 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that
the met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the
widened lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
I believe that's correct. The sidings will be long enough for S8
trains, though normally only S7s will be stabled there.
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry
passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
I think that's correct.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-22 16:34:01 UTC
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:23:23 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that
the met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the
widened lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
I believe that's correct. The sidings will be long enough for S8
trains, though normally only S7s will be stabled there.
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry
passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
Recliner
2017-11-22 17:28:18 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:23:23 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by David Cantrell
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The latest london special issue of modern railways suggests that
the met line has finally been linked up with the remains of the
widened lines at moorgate via a spur at farringdon.
Seems odd. Why on earth would they bother?
Presumably to reduce the pressure on Aldgate and the flat junction
between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. If you ever catch an H&C
train through there there's probably an 80% chance it will end up
stalled waiting for a Met line.
I though it was just for extra siding space at Farringdon?
I believe that's correct. The sidings will be long enough for S8
trains, though normally only S7s will be stabled there.
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry
passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-23 10:13:58 UTC
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:28:18 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
*sigh*, I know. We're talking about the old widened line link to moorgate that
apparently will be used by LU according to Modern Railways. Do try and keep up.
Recliner
2017-11-23 10:19:10 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:28:18 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
*sigh*, I know. We're talking about the old widened line link to moorgate that
apparently will be used by LU according to Modern Railways. Do try and keep up.
I think you've misunderstood the plan, so I was simply trying to explain it
to you. The sidings *are* on the CWL, but they don't go beyond the
Farringdon area. The CWL are blocked beyond there.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-23 13:28:44 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:19:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:28:18 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican,
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
*sigh*, I know. We're talking about the old widened line link to moorgate
that
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
apparently will be used by LU according to Modern Railways. Do try and keep
up.
I think you've misunderstood the plan, so I was simply trying to explain it
to you. The sidings *are* on the CWL, but they don't go beyond the
Farringdon area. The CWL are blocked beyond there.
Well thats not what the article said. Go and argue it out with them.
Recliner
2017-11-23 13:36:33 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:19:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:28:18 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican,
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
*sigh*, I know. We're talking about the old widened line link to moorgate
that
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
apparently will be used by LU according to Modern Railways. Do try and keep
up.
I think you've misunderstood the plan, so I was simply trying to explain it
to you. The sidings *are* on the CWL, but they don't go beyond the
Farringdon area. The CWL are blocked beyond there.
Well thats not what the article said. Go and argue it out with them.
Well, you seem to have read it differently to the rest of us. Why
don't you go and look for yourself?
Piatkow
2017-11-23 14:40:45 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:19:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:28:18 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican,
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
*sigh*, I know. We're talking about the old widened line link to moorgate
that
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
apparently will be used by LU according to Modern Railways. Do try and keep
up.
I think you've misunderstood the plan, so I was simply trying to explain it
to you. The sidings *are* on the CWL, but they don't go beyond the
Farringdon area. The CWL are blocked beyond there.
Well thats not what the article said. Go and argue it out with them.
Well, you seem to have read it differently to the rest of us. Why
don't you go and look for yourself?
My reading of the article was that the track right through to Moorgate would eventually be used with trains stabled in the Moorgate platforms and at intermediate points. I don't keep old magazines so I can't go back and check and of course. If the full length of the line isn't reopened yet then clearly they cannot do that today even if it is still the longer term plan.
Recliner
2017-11-23 15:12:00 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 06:40:45 -0800 (PST), Piatkow
Post by Piatkow
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 10:19:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 17:28:18 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:02:59 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican,
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
The track's already there, it would cost relatively little to put down some
power rails and I can't imagine them wanting to store the trains in some
leaky tunnel with the driver having to walk out of it.
The sidings are in the open, just past Farringdon station.
*sigh*, I know. We're talking about the old widened line link to moorgate
that
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
apparently will be used by LU according to Modern Railways. Do try and keep
up.
I think you've misunderstood the plan, so I was simply trying to explain it
to you. The sidings *are* on the CWL, but they don't go beyond the
Farringdon area. The CWL are blocked beyond there.
Well thats not what the article said. Go and argue it out with them.
Well, you seem to have read it differently to the rest of us. Why
don't you go and look for yourself?
My reading of the article was that the track right through to Moorgate would eventually be used with trains stabled in the Moorgate platforms and at intermediate points. I don't keep old magazines so I can't go back and check and of course. If the full length of the line isn't reopened yet then clearly they cannot do that today even if it is still the longer term plan.
Do you remember which issue it was in? I still have last month's
copy, and the new issue arrived today. I've not kept any older ones.

I thought there was room for at least three or four S stock trains to
be stabled in the restored Farringdon sidings, which extend on to the
old CWL track base. I'm not clear why they'd need more.

I was under the impression that the rest of the CWL lines track bed to
Moorgate would be used to support new buildings above.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-23 16:27:20 UTC
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On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:12:00 +0000
Post by Recliner
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 06:40:45 -0800 (PST), Piatkow
Post by Piatkow
My reading of the article was that the track right through to Moorgate would
eventually be used with trains stabled in the Moorgate platforms and at
intermediate points. I don't keep old magazines so I can't go back and check
and of course. If the full length of the line isn't reopened yet then clearly
they cannot do that today even if it is still the longer term plan.
Do you remember which issue it was in? I still have last month's
copy, and the new issue arrived today. I've not kept any older ones.
I thought there was room for at least three or four S stock trains to
be stabled in the restored Farringdon sidings, which extend on to the
old CWL track base. I'm not clear why they'd need more.
Perhaps they want it as a backup section to moorgate given platforms are
already in situ and functional except for the northbound at barbican.
Just an idea.
Post by Recliner
I was under the impression that the rest of the CWL lines track bed to
Moorgate would be used to support new buildings above.
You get a lot of impressions, rarely are they accurate.
Recliner
2017-11-23 16:45:25 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 15:12:00 +0000
Post by Recliner
On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 06:40:45 -0800 (PST), Piatkow
Post by Piatkow
My reading of the article was that the track right through to Moorgate would
eventually be used with trains stabled in the Moorgate platforms and at
intermediate points. I don't keep old magazines so I can't go back and check
and of course. If the full length of the line isn't reopened yet then clearly
they cannot do that today even if it is still the longer term plan.
Do you remember which issue it was in? I still have last month's
copy, and the new issue arrived today. I've not kept any older ones.
I thought there was room for at least three or four S stock trains to
be stabled in the restored Farringdon sidings, which extend on to the
old CWL track base. I'm not clear why they'd need more.
Perhaps they want it as a backup section to moorgate given platforms are
already in situ and functional except for the northbound at barbican.
Just an idea.
Post by Recliner
I was under the impression that the rest of the CWL lines track bed to
Moorgate would be used to support new buildings above.
You get a lot of impressions, rarely are they accurate.
Sez Mr Ignoramus.
Clive D.W. Feather
2017-11-26 10:19:24 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry
passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
To quote my own web site:

The section of the Widened Lines east of Farringdon closed in 2009:
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
Recliner
2017-11-26 12:52:28 UTC
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On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as an
emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and moorgate
stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to carry
passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at Barbican,
let alone all the way to Moorgate.
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.
I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-26 15:46:55 UTC
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Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as
an emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and
moorgate stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to
carry passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican, let alone all the way to Moorgate.
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.
I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?
Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Recliner
2017-11-26 16:17:09 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Yup, the article said stabling. Though I imagine they could use it as
an emergency termination point if the part between farringdon and
moorgate stuffs up. I wonder if it would need to be re-certified to
carry passengers or whether it'll inherit those as grandfather rights?
I don't think the sidings will stretch as far as the platforms at
Barbican, let alone all the way to Moorgate.
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.
I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?
Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?
Depots, other sidings, maybe spare station platforms (particularly at
night). They've managed without any sidings on that stretch for quite a few
years (certainly before the S stock came in), and never had room for more
than a couple of trains before that. I can't think of any other examples of
such large sidings in the middle of a line. Could this be to compensate for
the loss of sidings capacity at the Triangle Sidings and Hammersmith depot,
due to the longer S7 trains?
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-27 10:14:27 UTC
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Raw Message
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 12:52:28 +0000
Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000, "Clive D.W. Feather"
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
arrangements for longer trains on the Thameslink route to Blackfriars
meant that the platforms at Farringdon had to be extended at the east
end (because of the slope at the west end), thus blocking off the
junction. This section is currently being used for Crossrail work, but
once this finishes it will be reconnected to the Underground tracks via
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
stabling trains and emergency reversing. Originally the plan was for it
to be singled through platform 3 at Barbican and in platform 5 at
Moorgate (with no track at platforms 4 and 6 respectively). Each track
would have held five trains: two between Farringdon and Barbican and
three between Barbican and Moorgate. This has been replaced by a plan
with scissors crossovers at the centre of Barbican station and a short
distance outside Moorgate. Each track will now only hold four trains,
all accessible from the platforms: one each side of the Barbican
scissors and two at Moorgate. In an emergency a fifth can be stabled at
the tunnel mouth at Farringdon.
I wonder why LU needs sidings capable of holding as many as eight
trains? I can see why some sidings are worthwhile, but why so many?
I wonder why you're wrong about almost everything. I guess we'll never know.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-27 10:18:08 UTC
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Raw Message
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up. Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?
Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.
Recliner
2017-11-27 13:02:41 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up. Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?
Aren't you the self-proclaimed expert on such matters?
Post by Recliner
Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.
It's a siding, not a branch.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-11-27 13:48:05 UTC
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Raw Message
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:02:41 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up. Does the circle line have ATO installed yet?
Aren't you the self-proclaimed expert on such matters?
If I was I wouldn't ask.
Post by Recliner
Post by Recliner
Perhaps they don't want the cost of installing it on this branch and trains
will simply be driven manually with conventional signalling.
It's a siding, not a branch.
Semantics.
Clive D.W. Feather
2017-12-02 16:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up.
But then you have trains terminating at Moorgate and not Barking or
Edgware Road like they're supposed to.

If you're going to turn trains back early, there are facilities at KXSP.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-04 09:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 16:03:39 +0000
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by Recliner
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 10:19:24 +0000
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
a double junction at the east end of Farringdon. The line will run as
double track to Moorgate and will not be for passenger service, only for
I wonder why not. You'd think it would be a useful divert if the farringdon to
moorgate section stuffs up.
But then you have trains terminating at Moorgate and not Barking or
Edgware Road like they're supposed to.
If you're going to turn trains back early, there are facilities at KXSP.
You should work for LU, you're thinking about how to make their life easier,
not the passengers. Mr Pax doesn't give a monkeys where the trains normal
reversing points are, he just wants to get to work and he won't be pleased
if he's dumped 2 miles away at KX if the train could in theory go all the
way to moorgate.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-11-26 16:31:16 UTC
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Raw Message
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?
Depots, other sidings, maybe spare station platforms (particularly at
night). They've managed without any sidings on that stretch for quite a few
years (certainly before the S stock came in), and never had room for more
than a couple of trains before that. I can't think of any other examples of
such large sidings in the middle of a line. Could this be to compensate for
the loss of sidings capacity at the Triangle Sidings and Hammersmith depot,
due to the longer S7 trains?
I guess so. I also suspect that because of the enhanced services planned for
after the SSL resignalling they have more trains to stable than before.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Steve F.
2017-12-10 14:06:48 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?
Depots, other sidings, maybe spare station platforms (particularly at
night). They've managed without any sidings on that stretch for quite a few
years (certainly before the S stock came in), and never had room for more
than a couple of trains before that. I can't think of any other examples of
such large sidings in the middle of a line. Could this be to compensate for
the loss of sidings capacity at the Triangle Sidings and Hammersmith depot,
due to the longer S7 trains?
I guess so. I also suspect that because of the enhanced services planned for
after the SSL resignalling they have more trains to stable than before.
What's been forgotten about is that there are more S stock than the
combined A/C/D stock they replaced for the enhanced services after
ATO. There's also the extra train that was bought for the Watford Jct
extension. They all have to go somewhere when the railway closes.

With the upgrades for S stock the various depots and stabling points
have lost capacity - particularly on the S7 lines as Triangle Sidings
(2 roads), Parsons Green (1 road) and Ealing Common depot have lost
stabling positions. I think the downgrade at Hammersmith Met. from a
depot to a stabling point lost space too. A number (not sure how many
but more than 1 anyway) of H&C trains have to be worked to Neasden at
the end of the day for stabling and some work through to Upminster DT.

LU are currently lucky as a number of the trains are away at Derby for
fitment of the on-board ATO kit, a few at a time but once they all
return there will need to be space for them.
--
Steve F.
London Docklands, E16, UK
Recliner
2017-12-10 15:10:49 UTC
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Post by Steve F.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Where else do the trains go at night or between the peaks?
Depots, other sidings, maybe spare station platforms (particularly at
night). They've managed without any sidings on that stretch for quite a few
years (certainly before the S stock came in), and never had room for more
than a couple of trains before that. I can't think of any other examples of
such large sidings in the middle of a line. Could this be to compensate for
the loss of sidings capacity at the Triangle Sidings and Hammersmith depot,
due to the longer S7 trains?
I guess so. I also suspect that because of the enhanced services planned for
after the SSL resignalling they have more trains to stable than before.
What's been forgotten about is that there are more S stock than the
combined A/C/D stock they replaced for the enhanced services after
ATO. There's also the extra train that was bought for the Watford Jct
extension. They all have to go somewhere when the railway closes.
With the upgrades for S stock the various depots and stabling points
have lost capacity - particularly on the S7 lines as Triangle Sidings
(2 roads), Parsons Green (1 road) and Ealing Common depot have lost
stabling positions. I think the downgrade at Hammersmith Met. from a
depot to a stabling point lost space too. A number (not sure how many
but more than 1 anyway) of H&C trains have to be worked to Neasden at
the end of the day for stabling and some work through to Upminster DT.
LU are currently lucky as a number of the trains are away at Derby for
fitment of the on-board ATO kit, a few at a time but once they all
return there will need to be space for them.
Yes, very good points.

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