Discussion:
Snow on the line
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Recliner
2017-12-10 10:48:02 UTC
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The forecasted snow has arrived in London, and knocked out big chunks of
the Underground. For example, in northwest London, both the Met and Picc
are suspended because of power supply problems. But, oddly enough, the
Jubilee and District are reported to have a good service.

https://tfl.gov.uk/tube-dlr-overground/status/
David Walters
2017-12-10 17:53:41 UTC
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Post by Recliner
The forecasted snow has arrived in London
The forecasts I was looking at yesterday were predicting wind in London
but not snow.

I'm in Barnet where the council allegedly began gritting at 4am but
there wasn't much evidence of them until mid afternoon and most of the
buses were suspended for a while.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-11 10:34:25 UTC
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On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 17:53:41 +0000
Post by David Walters
Post by Recliner
The forecasted snow has arrived in London
The forecasts I was looking at yesterday were predicting wind in London
but not snow.
I'm in Barnet where the council allegedly began gritting at 4am but
there wasn't much evidence of them until mid afternoon and most of the
buses were suspended for a while.
Naturally as the snow arrived the underground fell apart. I mean snow! In
winter! Fancy that! Power supply problems? Who the fuck are they kidding.
Perhaps if they were more honest with their excuses people might not hold them
and the various rail companies in contempt.
Mike Bristow
2017-12-11 14:16:24 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Naturally as the snow arrived the underground fell apart. I mean snow! In
winter! Fancy that! Power supply problems? Who the fuck are they kidding.
Perhaps if they were more honest with their excuses people might not hold them
and the various rail companies in contempt.
What do you think the problem was? How would you describe it?
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-11 14:30:51 UTC
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:16:24 +0000
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Naturally as the snow arrived the underground fell apart. I mean snow! In
winter! Fancy that! Power supply problems? Who the fuck are they kidding.
Perhaps if they were more honest with their excuses people might not hold
them
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
and the various rail companies in contempt.
What do you think the problem was? How would you describe it?
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails, train
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
Mike Bristow
2017-12-11 15:45:39 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails, train
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-11 16:22:55 UTC
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:45:39 +0000
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
Its wasn't a power supply problem, the power supply was fine. Its a power
collection problem arising not from equipment defect but from a wetware
defect inbetween the ears of LU managers and staff. The correct announcement
should have been "We ignored the weather forecast because we're fuckwits and
now our trains are snowed in"
Mike Bristow
2017-12-11 19:37:08 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The correct announcement
should have been "We ignored the weather forecast because we're fuckwits and
now our trains are snowed in"
That would contravine the railway bylaws (section 6). I therefore
doubt that any reasonable person could consider it the correct
announcement. Want to try again?
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-12 10:14:12 UTC
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 19:37:08 +0000
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The correct announcement
should have been "We ignored the weather forecast because we're fuckwits and
now our trains are snowed in"
That would contravine the railway bylaws (section 6). I therefore
Yeah, I'm sure they pay attention to every fine detail of railway law when
it comes to snow clearing.
Post by Mike Bristow
doubt that any reasonable person could consider it the correct
announcement. Want to try again?
No. Because its EXACTLY what happened last time in 2013.
Mike Bristow
2017-12-12 12:21:20 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 19:37:08 +0000
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
The correct announcement
should have been "We ignored the weather forecast because we're fuckwits and
now our trains are snowed in"
That would contravine the railway bylaws (section 6). I therefore
Yeah, I'm sure they pay attention to every fine detail of railway law when
it comes to snow clearing.
You misunderstand. Your proposed announcment breaches the bylaws;
therefore no reasonable person can consider it the correct annoucment
- even if your understanding of the root cause is correct.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Recliner
2017-12-11 16:24:05 UTC
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Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails, train
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-11 16:48:47 UTC
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
At one time some of the Met out towards Metroland was equipped with
the facility to warm the conductor rails by passing a large current
in them , not quite a short circuit but a controlled flow.
Naturally it took a great deal of current and was/is probably very
expensive to run.
Don't know is this is still possible but if it is could bringing this
into use have overstressed the power supply?
When something is used rarely it is not unusual to find the staff who
were familiar with things have moved on and mistakes get made.

G.Harman
Mike Bristow
2017-12-11 19:40:52 UTC
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Post by Recliner
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
Also the Central line east of Leytonstone. Ice on the conductor
rails was the only thing I thought was likely; but the snow started
after the service and I'd've thought the current would have warmed
the rail enough to melt it - it wasn't _that_ cold, after all. What
do you speculate was the root cause? I'm struggling to come up with much
that seems plausible to me.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-12 10:16:29 UTC
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On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the network
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Recliner
2017-12-12 10:45:10 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the network
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Which "different lines on parts of the network seperated (sic) by 20
miles"?
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-12 12:26:33 UTC
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On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:45:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather
forecast
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the
network
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Which "different lines on parts of the network seperated (sic) by 20
miles"?
Umm, amersham and cockfosters? Actually make that 25 miles.
Recliner
2017-12-12 13:05:47 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:45:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather
forecast
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the
network
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Which "different lines on parts of the network seperated (sic) by 20
miles"?
Umm, amersham and cockfosters? Actually make that 25 miles.
I didn't say anything about Cockfosters. I mentioned the Piccadilly
line Uxbridge branch. I realise you're very parochial, but perhaps
even you know that Picc and Met share that branch.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-12 14:30:41 UTC
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On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:05:47 +0000
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 10:45:10 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather
forecast
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with
any
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like
its
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power
supply
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Recliner
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the
network
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Which "different lines on parts of the network seperated (sic) by 20
miles"?
Umm, amersham and cockfosters? Actually make that 25 miles.
I didn't say anything about Cockfosters. I mentioned the Piccadilly
line Uxbridge branch. I realise you're very parochial, but perhaps
even you know that Picc and Met share that branch.
So what? There were a number of "power supply problems" over the network.
Now either you're naive enough to believe all these substations failed due to
some snow, or alterntively its a load of BS to cover up not enough de-icing
trains being sent around the network. Take your pick.
Mike Bristow
2017-12-12 12:26:02 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the network
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Which "different lines on parts of the network seperated (sic) by 20
miles"?
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Recliner
2017-12-12 13:06:17 UTC
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Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 16:24:05 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I'd lay a lot of money on the fuckwits not listening to the weather forecast
and not spraying deicer on the power rails or sending up a train with any
kind of brush on it. Then next morning, "Oooo, theres snow on the rails,
train
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
won't move! Quick, lets blame the power supply and make it sound like its
someone elses fault!"
So how would you describe a problem where the snow/ice prevents the power
from getting from the rail to train?
I don't think that was the problem. I think it was genuinely a power supply
problem, as it also affected the Piccadilly line Uxbridge branch. Later,
when the Met line was running again, the Amersham branch continued to be
affected, and that might have been more to do with snow/ice on the running
and conductor rails.
A power supply problem which affected different lines on parts of the network
seperated by 20 miles. Hmm, lets think about the likelyhood of that for a
second vs the didn't-bother-to-clear-snow-from-the-rails scenario...
Which "different lines on parts of the network seperated (sic) by 20
miles"?
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
Mike Bristow
2017-12-12 16:54:50 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
... in the context of "power supply problems" - which may or may not have
been caused by iced-up conductor rails. Which were reported all over the
network:

https://twitter.com/centralline/status/939841391773061120
https://twitter.com/metline/status/939783801387061248
https://twitter.com/northernline/status/939867343521550336
https://twitter.com/jubileeline/status/939791679812505601

I can't think of an explaination for the widespread disruption that
/isn't/ ice-on-the-conductor rails - something like the national
grid being unable to supply sufficent current to LUL due to their
issues would have affected the victoria, circle and bakerloo too:
and they didn't report power supply problems.

What's a plausible alternative?
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Recliner
2017-12-12 20:59:30 UTC
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Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
... in the context of "power supply problems" - which may or may not have
been caused by iced-up conductor rails. Which were reported all over the
https://twitter.com/centralline/status/939841391773061120
https://twitter.com/metline/status/939783801387061248
https://twitter.com/northernline/status/939867343521550336
https://twitter.com/jubileeline/status/939791679812505601
I can't think of an explaination for the widespread disruption that
/isn't/ ice-on-the-conductor rails - something like the national
grid being unable to supply sufficent current to LUL due to their
and they didn't report power supply problems.
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
Basil Jet
2017-12-12 21:16:33 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
... in the context of "power supply problems" - which may or may not have
been caused by iced-up conductor rails. Which were reported all over the
https://twitter.com/centralline/status/939841391773061120
https://twitter.com/metline/status/939783801387061248
https://twitter.com/northernline/status/939867343521550336
https://twitter.com/jubileeline/status/939791679812505601
I can't think of an explaination for the widespread disruption that
/isn't/ ice-on-the-conductor rails - something like the national
grid being unable to supply sufficent current to LUL due to their
and they didn't report power supply problems.
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the weather
as the substations on the surface lines?
Recliner
2017-12-12 22:52:34 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
... in the context of "power supply problems" - which may or may not have
been caused by iced-up conductor rails. Which were reported all over the
https://twitter.com/centralline/status/939841391773061120
https://twitter.com/metline/status/939783801387061248
https://twitter.com/northernline/status/939867343521550336
https://twitter.com/jubileeline/status/939791679812505601
I can't think of an explaination for the widespread disruption that
/isn't/ ice-on-the-conductor rails - something like the national
grid being unable to supply sufficent current to LUL due to their
and they didn't report power supply problems.
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the weather
as the substations on the surface lines?
Some may be, I think others are in shafts. But not all open lines were
affected, either. For example, the District line was fine. The closure of
the whole Met and Uxbridge branch of the Picc probably was a power supply
problem; the later problem on just the Amersham branch was more likely to
have been icing on the rails.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-13 10:38:33 UTC
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On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:52:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the weather
as the substations on the surface lines?
Some may be, I think others are in shafts. But not all open lines were
affected, either. For example, the District line was fine. The closure of
the whole Met and Uxbridge branch of the Picc probably was a power supply
problem; the later problem on just the Amersham branch was more likely to
have been icing on the rails.
Sure, a major power supply problem that hasn't happened since god knows when
and purely coincidentaly happens on the first major snowfall in london in 4
years. Riiiight.
Recliner
2017-12-13 10:43:21 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:52:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the weather
as the substations on the surface lines?
Some may be, I think others are in shafts. But not all open lines were
affected, either. For example, the District line was fine. The closure of
the whole Met and Uxbridge branch of the Picc probably was a power supply
problem; the later problem on just the Amersham branch was more likely to
have been icing on the rails.
Sure, a major power supply problem that hasn't happened since god knows when
and purely coincidentaly happens on the first major snowfall in london in 4
years. Riiiight.
Nobody said it was coincidentally. I assumed the weather caused it.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-13 11:02:34 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:43:21 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:52:34 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the weather
as the substations on the surface lines?
Some may be, I think others are in shafts. But not all open lines were
affected, either. For example, the District line was fine. The closure of
the whole Met and Uxbridge branch of the Picc probably was a power supply
problem; the later problem on just the Amersham branch was more likely to
have been icing on the rails.
Sure, a major power supply problem that hasn't happened since god knows when
and purely coincidentaly happens on the first major snowfall in london in 4
years. Riiiight.
Nobody said it was coincidentally. I assumed the weather caused it.
Well all the other substations around london seemed to cope. Just LUs. Guess
they're just really really unlucky.
Mike Bristow
2017-12-13 14:06:16 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
What's the mechanisim that caused it? I'm by no means an expert, but
I can't think of obvious problems with substations that would cause
widespread issues when they're snowed on. Localised issues, yes;
but nothing systemic.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
Roland Perry
2017-12-13 16:10:31 UTC
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Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
What's the mechanisim that caused it? I'm by no means an expert, but
I can't think of obvious problems with substations that would cause
widespread issues when they're snowed on. Localised issues, yes;
but nothing systemic.
Today there's been a power failure in the Finsbury Park area, causing
a few delays and cancellations.
--
Roland Perry
Recliner
2017-12-13 16:20:58 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
What's the mechanisim that caused it? I'm by no means an expert, but
I can't think of obvious problems with substations that would cause
widespread issues when they're snowed on. Localised issues, yes;
but nothing systemic.
Obviously this is all just speculation, but there might have been multiple
different problems which all got summarised under one heading. Fo example,
could the signalling been affected by a weather-related power cut? Or, if
Neasden depot was hit, that could have affected the Met trains leaving the
depo (though I think the Jubilee was unaffected).
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-13 16:33:50 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 16:20:58 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
What's the mechanisim that caused it? I'm by no means an expert, but
I can't think of obvious problems with substations that would cause
widespread issues when they're snowed on. Localised issues, yes;
but nothing systemic.
Obviously this is all just speculation, but there might have been multiple
different problems which all got summarised under one heading. Fo example,
could the signalling been affected by a weather-related power cut? Or, if
Neasden depot was hit, that could have affected the Met trains leaving the
depo (though I think the Jubilee was unaffected).
Occams razor - they didn't clear the snow and ice off the conductor rails
but decided to mince their words.
Tim Woodall
2017-12-11 15:05:47 UTC
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Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Naturally as the snow arrived the underground fell apart. I mean snow! In
winter! Fancy that! Power supply problems? Who the fuck are they kidding.
Perhaps if they were more honest with their excuses people might not hold them
and the various rail companies in contempt.
What do you think the problem was? How would you describe it?
I don't know what the problem was but it was very annoying and poorly
communicated.

I was doing KX to Southgate at around 10am.

15 minute wait for any train (no problem yet) but first train was to
Arnos Grove so we waited for the next one to Cockfosters.

Got on train - as we set off the automatic announcement '... to Arnos
Grove'

Every single station to Bounds Green had the platform indicators saying
the train was to Cockfosters. At bounds green platform indicator said
Arnos Grove with a Cockfosters train 6 minutes behind.

Got to Arnos Green, train did terminate, to be immediately presented
with an announcement 'no trains going further than Arnos Grove, buses
stopped running 30 minutes ago, cab conpany says there are no drivers.
You cannot continue your journey from here'

Not a single announcement until the only option was to turn around and
go back. Not even an announcement from the driver that the platform
indicators were wrong.

Disappointing.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-11 15:45:32 UTC
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Raw Message
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 15:05:47 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Tim Woodall
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Naturally as the snow arrived the underground fell apart. I mean snow! In
winter! Fancy that! Power supply problems? Who the fuck are they kidding.
Perhaps if they were more honest with their excuses people might not hold
them
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
and the various rail companies in contempt.
What do you think the problem was? How would you describe it?
I don't know what the problem was but it was very annoying and poorly
communicated.
Thats par for the course.
Post by Tim Woodall
Got to Arnos Green, train did terminate, to be immediately presented
with an announcement 'no trains going further than Arnos Grove, buses
stopped running 30 minutes ago, cab conpany says there are no drivers.
You cannot continue your journey from here'
Even when the buses do run from Arnos Grove its usually a 20 min wait anyway.
Post by Tim Woodall
Not a single announcement until the only option was to turn around and
You should have walked tbh. Depending on what part of southgate you were going
to its between 15-30 mins from arnos grove at a normal walking pace.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-12-13 19:07:57 UTC
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In article
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
... in the context of "power supply problems" - which may or may not
have been caused by iced-up conductor rails. Which were reported all
https://twitter.com/centralline/status/939841391773061120
https://twitter.com/metline/status/939783801387061248
https://twitter.com/northernline/status/939867343521550336
https://twitter.com/jubileeline/status/939791679812505601
I can't think of an explaination for the widespread disruption that
/isn't/ ice-on-the-conductor rails - something like the national
grid being unable to supply sufficent current to LUL due to their
and they didn't report power supply problems.
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the
weather as the substations on the surface lines?
Some may be, I think others are in shafts. But not all open lines were
affected, either. For example, the District line was fine. The closure of
the whole Met and Uxbridge branch of the Picc probably was a power supply
problem; the later problem on just the Amersham branch was more likely to
have been icing on the rails.
I doubt it was as simple as that. If it was just icing on conductor rails
why was Chiltern unable to run from Amersham to Marylebone?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-14 09:55:25 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:07:57 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
In article
Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by Recliner
Post by Mike Bristow
Epping and Amersham were both affected, and are about 30 miles apart
as the crow flies, and 44 miles apart by track kilometerage.
I mentioned Uxbridge, not Epping.
... in the context of "power supply problems" - which may or may not
have been caused by iced-up conductor rails. Which were reported all
https://twitter.com/centralline/status/939841391773061120
https://twitter.com/metline/status/939783801387061248
https://twitter.com/northernline/status/939867343521550336
https://twitter.com/jubileeline/status/939791679812505601
I can't think of an explaination for the widespread disruption that
/isn't/ ice-on-the-conductor rails - something like the national
grid being unable to supply sufficent current to LUL due to their
and they didn't report power supply problems.
What's a plausible alternative?
Problems with substations?
Aren't the substations on the deep lines just as exposed to the
weather as the substations on the surface lines?
Some may be, I think others are in shafts. But not all open lines were
affected, either. For example, the District line was fine. The closure of
the whole Met and Uxbridge branch of the Picc probably was a power supply
problem; the later problem on just the Amersham branch was more likely to
have been icing on the rails.
I doubt it was as simple as that. If it was just icing on conductor rails
why was Chiltern unable to run from Amersham to Marylebone?
Met train(s) stuck and blocking the track probably.

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