Discussion:
First LO Aventra on display
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Recliner
2018-06-27 07:51:23 UTC
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The first class 710 has been shown to the press at Willesden depot. The
delayed entry into service on the GOBLIN will be in November:

<http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html>
Basil Jet
2018-06-27 09:58:24 UTC
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Post by Recliner
<http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html>
"In the longer term three additional trains would be required on the
Gospel Oak – Barking Line once the one-station extension to Barking
Riverside opens."

Three! Presumably the frequency on the whole line will be increased at
the same time, it can't be three extra trains for a two mile extension.
--
Basil Jet - listening to (Ma-Mg) ... Mackenzies - Madness - Madonna -
Magazine - Manchester Orchestra - Manic Street Preachers - Manitoba -
Mansun - Manuel Göttsching - Marcushpdavis 1 - Marion - Mark Stewart &
The Maffia - Mars - Martin Newell - Martin Rev - Massacre - Massive
Attack - Massive Attack - Mast - Material - Maximum Joy - Mazzy Star -
McCarthy - Mclusky - Meat Beat Manifesto - Meat Puppets - Meatbodies -
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Meursault - MGMT
Recliner
2018-06-27 10:37:44 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by Recliner
<http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html>
"In the longer term three additional trains would be required on the
Gospel Oak – Barking Line once the one-station extension to Barking
Riverside opens."
Three! Presumably the frequency on the whole line will be increased at
the same time, it can't be three extra trains for a two mile extension.
Yes, I think so.
Robin9
2018-06-28 08:32:32 UTC
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At present, there is no real need for an increase in frequency. The nee
is for more seats and more room to stand when all seats are taken. Th
EMUs will certainly provide far more standing room.

A questionable decision was taken to extend platforms to allow 4-ca
EMUs but not more. As several of the stations still have "un-adopted
platform surfaces, it might have been a sensible long-term strategy t
have refurbished the entire platforms at those stations in readiness fo
5 or even 6-car trains. If and when patronage rises to absorb all th
new capacity, longer trains would be better than more trains on thi
busy stretch of railway


--
Robin9
Paul Corfield
2018-07-03 11:18:58 UTC
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Post by Recliner
The first class 710 has been shown to the press at Willesden depot. The
<http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html>
Yep shown to the press and immediately dragged back to Derby!

A class 172 has been snatched back by the leasing company which peaks all the peak extras on the GOBLIN ceased on Monday. This is despite promises from TfL that the peak extra trains would run until electric trains were in service. I can only assume that rush hour travel has now become beyond intolerable on the GOBLIN.

If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBLIN will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Midlands Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2018. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault free mileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers trained and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very difficult indeed.
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Paul C
via Google
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-07-03 11:54:24 UTC
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On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBLIN =
will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Midla=
nds Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2018=
.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault free m=
ileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers trai=
ned and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very difficult=
indeed.
Given this electrification had been on the cards for a long time, why didn't
TfL just order a few more 378s back in the day?
Paul Corfield
2018-07-03 13:35:17 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBLIN =
will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Midla=
nds Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2018=
.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault free m=
ileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers trai=
ned and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very difficult=
indeed.
Given this electrification had been on the cards for a long time, why didn't
TfL just order a few more 378s back in the day?
I think Bombardier had withdrawn the Electrostar range of EMUs so didn't offer them. The 379 / 387s for Gtr Anglia / C2C / GWR were the last examples of that family. The Aventra is the new modular design. The 345s for Crossrail use an adapted Train Management System and software from the Electrostar which is how they've got into service. The 710's TMS is brand new and it is believed the software development has been very problematic indeed. I've seen no more info than that - no idea if Bombardier have fixed the issues or whether it is far from resolution.

The other problem is that the TfL priority is getting the 345s to work properly because Crossrail is the priority. Multiple sets are undergoing signalling and software testing at Asfordby test track. This has caused a shortage of testing capacity in the UK which is why one class 710 was sent by road to France for testing. It will also be placing a further strain on Bombardier's software resources if class 345s need revised software to work with the multiple signal systems that apply on Crossrail.

Something has to give very soon because you can't keep prioritising Crossrail if it means a newly electrified line can't use electric trains *and* it may also lose its existing diesel trains. That is the sort of farce that is almost up there with the utter, utter shambles that is Thameslink / Great Northern.
--
Paul C
via Google
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-07-03 14:29:28 UTC
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On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 06:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBL=
IN =3D
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Mi=
dla=3D
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
nds Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2=
018=3D
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault fr=
ee m=3D
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers t=
rai=3D
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ned and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very diffic=
ult=3D
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
indeed.
=20
Given this electrification had been on the cards for a long time, why did=
n't
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
TfL just order a few more 378s back in the day?
I think Bombardier had withdrawn the Electrostar range of EMUs so didn't of=
fer them. The 379 / 387s for Gtr Anglia / C2C / GWR were the last examples =
Sure, but I was thinking when they ordered the 378s for the overground why
didn't they just add 4 or 5 on top for the goblin?
of that family. The Aventra is the new modular design. The 345s for Crossra=
il use an adapted Train Management System and software from the Electrostar=
which is how they've got into service. The 710's TMS is brand new and it i=
s believed the software development has been very problematic indeed. I've =
seen no more info than that - no idea if Bombardier have fixed the issues o=
r whether it is far from resolution.
You have to wonder why they didn't just make a joint order with thameslink for
some 700s.

As an aside, anyone know why some of these new stocks are numbered in the 7xx
range instead of 3xx?
Something has to give very soon because you can't keep prioritising Crossra=
il if it means a newly electrified line can't use electric trains *and* it =
may also lose its existing diesel trains. That is the sort of farce that is=
almost up there with the utter, utter shambles that is Thameslink / Great =
Northern.
Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?
Basil Jet
2018-07-04 09:08:52 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?
Aren't they all 5-car now?
--
Basil Jet - listening to (Ma-Mg) ... Mackenzies - Madness - Madonna -
Magazine - Manchester Orchestra - Manic Street Preachers - Manitoba -
Mansun - Manuel Göttsching - Marcushpdavis 1 - Marion - Mark Stewart &
The Maffia - Mars - Martin Newell - Martin Rev - Massacre - Massive
Attack - Massive Attack - Mast - Material - Maximum Joy - Mazzy Star -
McCarthy - Mclusky - Meat Beat Manifesto - Meat Puppets - Meatbodies -
Megafaun - Mekon - Memotone - Merchandise - Messer Chups - Metz -
Meursault - MGMT
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-07-04 09:22:52 UTC
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On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 10:08:52 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?
Aren't they all 5-car now?
No idea. Is the goblin 3 or 4 car only then?
Mike Bristow
2018-07-04 11:40:27 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 10:08:52 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?
Aren't they all 5-car now?
No idea. Is the goblin 3 or 4 car only then?
4 car.

A few stations on the route would be expensive to extend.
--
Mike Bristow ***@urgle.com
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-07-05 07:53:42 UTC
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On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 12:40:27 +0100
Post by Mike Bristow
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 10:08:52 +0100
Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?
Aren't they all 5-car now?
No idea. Is the goblin 3 or 4 car only then?
4 car.
A few stations on the route would be expensive to extend.
Can the 378s lock out the doors on an entire end car or is it only a single
pair? If its the former then no reason they can't run on the goblin unless
there are signalling compatability issues.

Recliner
2018-07-04 11:37:10 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?
Aren't they all 5-car now?
Yes. The new GOBLIN trains will be four-car.
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