Discussion:
Crossrail fares announced - and a massive extension!
(too old to reply)
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-16 10:13:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html

Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20, from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.

And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected!
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-16 10:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected!
I further note that the £12.10 fare is also exactly the same as the
cheapest advance purchase single from HEx so presumably LHR has some
restriction that it can't be cheaper than the cheapest HEx fare?
Roland Perry
2018-03-16 11:13:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-
match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-
a3791496.html
"London Elizabeth line fares to match TfL Tube prices... except where it
doesn't"

"Mayor Sadiq Khan said: I'm delighted to announce that the cost
of travelling on the Elizabeth Line in zones 1-6 will be the
same price as a similar journey on the Tube - fulfilling a key
manifesto pledge ..."

Someone tell him that Heathrow is in Z6!
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20, from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
Does this mean that splitting the trip at a Z2 station will save money?
(You'll need two different cards, presumably)
Post by Someone Somewhere
And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected!
"the new line, which will eventually link Reading with Sheffield
and Abbey Wood"

Tell me about it! Lots of the post I used to get in Brentwood had first
been undeliverable in Brentford. At the time the latter featured in a
wall to wall "Brentford Nylons" advertising.
--
Roland Perry
Clive Page
2018-03-16 11:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
--
Clive Page
Richard J.
2018-03-16 12:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6 travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-announces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-03-16 13:26:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

Or, to be precise, no.

It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2018-03-16 13:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
Or, to be precise, no.
It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow.
"As part of the integrated service, daily fare capping for Oyster and
contactless and weekly fare capping for contactless will apply, with
travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to Heathrow."
Post by Someone Somewhere
It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-03-16 16:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard J.
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tub
e-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Richard J.
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-
announces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
Post by Richard J.
Post by Someone Somewhere
Or, to be precise, no.
It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow.
"As part of the integrated service, daily fare capping for Oyster and
contactless and weekly fare capping for contactless will apply, with
travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on services to
Heathrow."
It also says: "Standard zonal fares will continue to apply for journeys
between Paddington and Hayes & Harlington, with special single fares
applying for journeys to and from Heathrow Airport." No wonder I missed the
other reference contradicting that.

No mention of Heathrow Express so presumably none of this integration will
apply there.
Post by Richard J.
Post by Someone Somewhere
It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-16 13:49:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
Or, to be precise, no.
It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on
services to Heathrow." mean then?
Richard
2018-03-16 20:55:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 16 Mar 2018 13:49:26 +0000, Someone Somewhere
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
Or, to be precise, no.
It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on
services to Heathrow." mean then?
Probably what you think it does, but the release seems to me to have
been written very badly or very carefully, I'm not sure which.

Richard.
Roland Perry
2018-03-17 08:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
Errr what does "with travelcards that cover Zone 6 able to be used on
services to Heathrow." mean then?
Probably what you think it does, but the release seems to me to have
been written very badly or very carefully, I'm not sure which.
It suffers from being a press release about the Mayor's infamous "fare
freeze" as much as an announcement about Elizabeth Line fares.

Much of the wriggling is because the Elizabeth Line (as discussed here
wrt roundels) is "neither fish nor flesh nor fowl" when it comes to
being a tube, an Overground or a National Rail line, having as it does a
station at Heathrow which both is and isn't in Z6 depending on the
ticket you buy.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2018-03-17 08:50:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Much of the wriggling is because the Elizabeth Line (as discussed here
wrt roundels) is "neither fish nor flesh nor fowl" when it comes to
being a tube, an Overground or a National Rail line, having as it does
a station at Heathrow which both is and isn't in Z6 depending on the
ticket you buy.
I think I'll change that last bit to "or fare you are charged", because
until your day's trips are amalgamated under the capping system, all you
actually "buy" with smart ticketing is a trip through a gate.
--
Roland Perry
Paul Corfield
2018-03-17 20:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-london-a
nnounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
Or, to be precise, no.
It does NOT say that a zone 1-6 travelcard will cover travel on the
Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow. It's well written as smoke and mirrors
but it offers no prices to Heathrow using travelcards, nor can I see any
reference to Freedom Passes. So what those of us outside London who would
expect to buy a day travelcard and not use Oyster are supposed to do is
entirely unstated.
To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.

https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-rail-fares-20-may-2018

It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly caps covering travel to Zone 6.

All existing concessions also apply to TfL Rail services including the 60+ Pass, Freedom Pass, Veterans Oyster Card and the various child / low income / job seeker reductions.

TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR.

HEX will remain outside capping and Travelcard schemes. Oyster and Contactless acceptance will begin in the Summer when the gating of HEX's platforms at Paddington is complete. The HEX stations at Heathrow are also being gated as part of this scheme.
--
Paul C
via Google
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-18 08:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Corfield
TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a "goodwill" measure from GWR.
Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I
don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from
GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what
this is) for access to their infrastructure...

And the clamouring about whether freedom passes are valid is starting to
be irksome - they are a concession, not a right.
Roland Perry
2018-03-18 09:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Paul Corfield
TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow
staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a
"goodwill" measure from GWR.
Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I
don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from
GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what
this is) for access to their infrastructure...
The answer to that is fairly simple. Heathrow Connect exists almost
entirely as a way for staff to get to and from the airport. The
occasional tourist using it as a HEx-lite is almost a loophole.

The arrangement between Heathrow and GWR for the use of HEx
infrastructure will no doubt reflect the fact that GWR is in effect
waiving the airport premium for airport workers.

Everyone wins, because GWR get the bums on seats because the fares are
competitive with other means of workers getting to the airport, and the
airport gets to bask in the modal shift (which includes meeting targets
for pollution/congestion, and the cost of providing parking) for those
workers whose alternative to Heathrow Connect would be driving.
--
Roland Perry
CJB
2018-03-20 21:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by Paul Corfield
TfL are also arranging with HAL as to how the existing Heathrow
staff travel concessions will be maintained. At present they are a
"goodwill" measure from GWR.
Whilst I appreciate many staff are low paid (although many aren't), I
don't quite understand why HAL gets or expects a goodwill measure from
GWR when they then insist on charging or minimum fares (which is what
this is) for access to their infrastructure...
The answer to that is fairly simple. Heathrow Connect exists almost
entirely as a way for staff to get to and from the airport. The
occasional tourist using it as a HEx-lite is almost a loophole.
The arrangement between Heathrow and GWR for the use of HEx
infrastructure will no doubt reflect the fact that GWR is in effect
waiving the airport premium for airport workers.
Everyone wins, because GWR get the bums on seats because the fares are
competitive with other means of workers getting to the airport, and the
airport gets to bask in the modal shift (which includes meeting targets
for pollution/congestion, and the cost of providing parking) for those
workers whose alternative to Heathrow Connect would be driving.
--
Roland Perry
And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of Heathrow. Not that many bother.
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-21 07:07:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CJB
And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of Heathrow. Not that many bother.
You mean outside of cars, taxis, and presumably riding the things in there?
Roland Perry
2018-03-21 08:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by CJB
And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of
Heathrow. Not that many bother.
You mean outside of cars, taxis, and presumably riding the things in there?
I think you'll find cycling is banned in the tunnels to the central
terminals.
--
Roland Perry
John Williamson
2018-03-21 10:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
 And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of
Heathrow. Not that many bother.
You mean outside of cars, taxis, and presumably riding the things in there?
I think you'll find cycling is banned in the tunnels to the central
terminals.
Only for the duration of the renovation works. Once finished, they will
reinstate the pedestrian and cycle access via the small side tunnels.

Pedestrian access is currently via a free shuttle bus which shuttles
between the East Ramp access road and the central bus station.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
Roland Perry
2018-03-21 10:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Williamson
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Someone Somewhere
 And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of
Heathrow. Not that many bother.
You mean outside of cars, taxis, and presumably riding the things in there?
I think you'll find cycling is banned in the tunnels to the central
terminals.
Only for the duration of the renovation works. Once finished, they will
reinstate the pedestrian and cycle access via the small side tunnels.
I thought the side tunnels were earmarked for pods, or has that
experiment been kicked into the long grass?
Post by John Williamson
Pedestrian access is currently via a free shuttle bus which shuttles
between the East Ramp access road and the central bus station.
--
Roland Perry
John Williamson
2018-03-21 10:48:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
I thought the side tunnels were earmarked for pods, or has that
experiment been kicked into the long grass?
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
--
Tciao for Now!

John.
Roland Perry
2018-03-21 11:15:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Williamson
Post by Roland Perry
I thought the side tunnels were earmarked for pods, or has that
experiment been kicked into the long grass?
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there,
Like T5, to connect the parking on the perimeter road to the terminals.

It does seem to have been put on hold though.
Post by John Williamson
and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the width of
the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a single tunnel.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2018-03-22 09:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 10:48:02 +0000, John Williamson
Post by John Williamson
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
If they're self driving pods like those being trialled in MK they run
on the pavement with pedestrians at low speed.

Neil
Roland Perry
2018-03-22 10:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by John Williamson
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
If they're self driving pods like those being trialled in MK they run
on the pavement with pedestrians at low speed.
They'd be like the T5 ones (in effect a small-scale guided busway).
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-22 11:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 10:38:32 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by John Williamson
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
If they're self driving pods like those being trialled in MK they run
on the pavement with pedestrians at low speed.
They'd be like the T5 ones (in effect a small-scale guided busway).
Except electronically guided rather than having a physical rail which means
they can only run at slow speed.
Roland Perry
2018-03-22 12:16:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by John Williamson
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
If they're self driving pods like those being trialled in MK they run
on the pavement with pedestrians at low speed.
They'd be like the T5 ones (in effect a small-scale guided busway).
Except electronically guided rather than having a physical rail which means
they can only run at slow speed.
I think you'll find the T5 ones are electronically guided too.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-22 14:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 12:16:45 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by John Williamson
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
If they're self driving pods like those being trialled in MK they run
on the pavement with pedestrians at low speed.
They'd be like the T5 ones (in effect a small-scale guided busway).
Except electronically guided rather than having a physical rail which means
they can only run at slow speed.
I think you'll find the T5 ones are electronically guided too.
Those were the ones I was talking about. A solution looking for a problem.
Roland Perry
2018-03-22 15:39:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by John Williamson
Possibly, I only see the signage that says "We're brightening up our
welcome" as I drive past in the coach. I've not bothered checking their
plans, as they won't affect me much, but I can't see a reason to run
pods there, and they would only need one tunnel for them, anyway, as the
width of the existing pods to T5 would permit two way working in a
single tunnel.
If they're self driving pods like those being trialled in MK they run
on the pavement with pedestrians at low speed.
They'd
(see below)
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
be like the T5 ones (in effect a small-scale guided busway).
Except electronically guided rather than having a physical rail which means
they can only run at slow speed.
I think you'll find the T5 ones are electronically guided too.
Those
"They" are the Central Terminal ones.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
were the ones I was talking about. A solution looking for a problem.
Which whatever the merits, were proposed to be the same as the T5 ones.
So no exception, contrary to your claim.
--
Roland Perry
Clive Page
2018-03-22 09:38:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
 And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of Heathrow. Not that many bother.
You mean outside of cars, taxis, and presumably riding the things in there?
I think you'll find cycling is banned in the tunnels to the central terminals.
I thought that you were allowed to cycle through the small side tunnels otherwise reserved for taxis? Or maybe that has changed?
--
Clive Page
Roland Perry
2018-03-22 10:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
 And the Connect is the only way to get cycles into / out of
Heathrow. Not that many bother.
You mean outside of cars, taxis, and presumably riding the things in there?
I think you'll find cycling is banned in the tunnels to the central terminals.
I thought that you were allowed to cycle through the small side tunnels otherwise
reserved for taxis? Or maybe that has changed?
My recollection is they closed some time ago. Originally perhaps to
facilitate the pods; but now the pods are on hold, maybe they will
re-open in some form eventually.

From Heathrow's website today:

"There is currently no direct cycle route to Terminals 2 and 3
due to construction work to the main road tunnel. Bicycles can
be parked in racks at the Heathrow Cycle Hub, where free local
buses operate to the terminals."
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2018-03-18 08:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Corfield
To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.
https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-rail-fares-20-may-2018
It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly
caps covering travel to Zone 6.
What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares
such as:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CBG&dest=H584&ldn=1&tkt=SVR

and

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CBG&dest=ZHJ&tkt=SVR

will be affected (if at all).

Although one obvious conclusion be "not at all".

In other words the Elizabeth Line trip won't count as 'underground' for
such fares, even if they presumably would for outboundary Travelcards.

The results in an anomaly for day tickets where for £50.50 one will be
able to get a [valid on Lizzy Line] outboundary travelcard:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CBG&dest=ZHJ&grpd=0035&tkt=ADT

But it would cost £84.90 to do the same trip on a SDR:

http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=CBG&dest=ZHJ&grpd=0035&tkt=ADT
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-19 09:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:53:11 +0000
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Paul Corfield
To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.
https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-rail-fares-20-may-
018
Post by Paul Corfield
It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in
Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly
Post by Paul Corfield
caps covering travel to Zone 6.
What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Roland Perry
2018-03-19 11:09:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Paul Corfield
To get the full facts then read the Mayoral Decision.
https://www.london.gov.uk/decisions/md2245-heathrow-airport-rail-fares-20-may-
018
Post by Paul Corfield
It is absolutely clear that Daily / 7 Day and longer Travelcards valid in
Zone 6 will be valid to Heathrow using TfL. Ditto for daily / weekly
Post by Paul Corfield
caps covering travel to Zone 6.
What that doesn't explicitly reveal is how outboundary through fares
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.

I don't think Sadiq can afford to have £1.50 flat fares across the whole
of the TfL empire; he can't even afford to keep his price-pledge when
part of the journey is on NR trains.

The obvious and simple solution is to make Heathow unequivocally in zone
6, except that would also be costly because:

(a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and
somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx

(b) you'd lose the single-trip[1] "tourist[2] tax" which is most of what
this Byzantine fares structure at Heathrow is designed to collect

[1] It's notable that TfL is trying to spin "being able to take more
than that one single trip, for just 40p extra" as a benefit to
tourists, when all it's actually doing is bringing them under the
wing of temporary regular commuter fare structure.

[2] Which includes, specific to my last posting, Brits living
outboundary who depart Heathrow one day, and return on another.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-19 11:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus
if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by
the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping for the tube would be
reasonable. With the amount of tourists who go 1 or 2 stops because they're
too lazy to walk (no excuse not to have some kind of map these days) they'd
probably clean up.
Post by Roland Perry
(a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and
somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx
An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway.
"You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners,
cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost
taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex"
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-19 11:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the buses
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus
if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by
the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping
Does that include travel cards?
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-19 11:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the
buses
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus
if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by
the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping
Does that include travel cards?
What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip.
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-19 12:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in flat
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the
buses
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a bus
if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by
the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping
Does that include travel cards?
What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip.
Potentially more than doubling the cost of some annual fares? Yes, I
can see that being a popular policy....
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-19 12:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:26:01 +0000
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in
flat
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the
buses
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a
bus
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by
the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping
Does that include travel cards?
What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip.
Potentially more than doubling the cost of some annual fares? Yes, I
can see that being a popular policy....
Why would it? For people who simply commute in and out it would be cheaper
unless they're only commuting within zone 1.

If you mean travel cards for national rail, too bad, they can pay the tube
fare or walk. The difference would have to be made up somewhere.
Someone Somewhere
2018-03-19 12:54:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:26:01 +0000
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:31:20 +0000
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 11:09:36 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
It really is time to ditch this overcomplicated nonsense and bring in
flat
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
fares as is done in many other parts of the world. If it can work on the
buses
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
it can work on TfLs tube and train lines.
Except the flat fare on a bus differs from the flat fare on the tube,
which differs from the flat fare on a train.
I wouldn't expect it to be the same tbh. You'd sit in a traffic jam in a
bus
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
if you wanted cheap, you'd pay more if you wanted to get their faster by
the tube. I reckon 2-3 quid flat fare with no capping
Does that include travel cards?
What travel cards? You'd pay a flat fare per trip.
Potentially more than doubling the cost of some annual fares? Yes, I
can see that being a popular policy....
Why would it? For people who simply commute in and out it would be cheaper
unless they're only commuting within zone 1.
If you mean travel cards for national rail, too bad, they can pay the tube
fare or walk. The difference would have to be made up somewhere.
2 journeys a day in zone 3, £6. Include weekends, but no extra trips.

6 * 365 = £2190

Zone 3-4 travelcard = £1020

Yes, there are holidays and so on but then again some people make lots
of trips on top of commuting so it may even out.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-19 15:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 12:54:58 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
If you mean travel cards for national rail, too bad, they can pay the tube
fare or walk. The difference would have to be made up somewhere.
2 journeys a day in zone 3, £6. Include weekends, but no extra trips.
6 * 365 = £2190
Zone 3-4 travelcard = £1020
Zone 1-4 = 1960, 1-5 = 2328, 1-6 = 2492

Plus 3 quid was at my upper limit, 2.50 IMO would be more reasonable so
the cost comes down to 5 * 365 = 1825. Subtract weekends and its 5 * 260 = 1300
Yes, there are holidays and so on but then again some people make lots
of trips on top of commuting so it may even out.
Some people, yes, but with a flat fare someone will always end up paying more
or it wouldn't be viable, but everyone benefits from a simpler fare system plus
its less costly to administer, the savings of which can be passed back to the
passenger. Plus there's a chance fare dodging could drop depending on how
they rejigged the entry gates - you can't force your way through or over a
head high turnstile (at least not without people noticing) like in the paris
metro and numerous football grounds. Exit gates could be a simple waist high
one.
Offramp
2018-03-19 20:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I understood what you said about flat fares. You weren't saying THIS MUST BE THE FARE!! In this computer age there is scope for a Parisian carnet style product to be put on a card.
Roland Perry
2018-03-20 09:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Offramp
I understood what you said about flat fares. You weren't saying THIS
MUST BE THE FARE!! In this computer age there is scope for a Parisian
carnet style product to be put on a card.
Part-time seasons (in effect a carnet) were part of the DfT plan for
National Rail a couple of years ago. It's gone awfully quiet though.

Pre-Oyster I used London Underground paper carnet tickets.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2018-03-19 13:17:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
(a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and
somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx
An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway.
"You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners,
cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost
taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex"
Part of the problem with that, is the main reason for HEx is to abstract
traffic from black cabs, aiming at the market for whom it's "A cab or
the Airport Express", and whatever you do to try to persuade them to use
what feels to a visitor like the local metro, doesn't deliver.

If anything a new 3rd runway will need HEx even more, to deliver the
pollution reduction targets.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-19 15:12:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:17:14 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
(a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and
somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx
An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway.
"You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners,
cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost
taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex"
Part of the problem with that, is the main reason for HEx is to abstract
traffic from black cabs, aiming at the market for whom it's "A cab or
the Airport Express", and whatever you do to try to persuade them to use
what feels to a visitor like the local metro, doesn't deliver.
Possibly, but I would guess that the majority of people who would prefer to
take a train to central london don't want to pay extortionate fares only to be
dumped at paddington.
Post by Roland Perry
If anything a new 3rd runway will need HEx even more, to deliver the
pollution reduction targets.
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow , the contribution of ground traffic
to the overall pollution increase that the 3rd runway will cause is probably
negligable.
Roland Perry
2018-03-19 15:29:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 13:17:14 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
(a) it would involve buying-out Heathrow's private infrastructure and
somehow compensating them for the lost premium fare revenue on HEx
An easier way would be to make it part of the condition for a 3rd runway.
"You want a runway that will blight the lives of millions of londoners,
cause untold extra pollution both on the ground and in the air and will cost
taxpayers a fortune? Then hand over Hex"
Part of the problem with that, is the main reason for HEx is to abstract
traffic from black cabs, aiming at the market for whom it's "A cab or
the Airport Express", and whatever you do to try to persuade them to use
what feels to a visitor like the local metro, doesn't deliver.
Possibly, but I would guess that the majority of people who would prefer to
take a train to central london don't want to pay extortionate fares only to be
dumped at paddington.
The same is true of the destination of any "Airport Express" train (or
indeed coach). But the point is those travellers now feel comfortable
because they are safely "in the big city".
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
If anything a new 3rd runway will need HEx even more, to deliver the
pollution reduction targets.
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the contribution of ground traffic
to the overall pollution increase that the 3rd runway will cause is probably
negligable.
Apparently not, and hence the need for the airport to go to
extraordinary measures, like building HEx in the first place,
to meet the targets.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-20 09:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 19 Mar 2018 15:29:47 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.
Roland Perry
2018-03-20 11:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.
The figures are available online.

As usual, you are completely wrong:

"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-20 11:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 11:23:05 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.
The figures are available online.
"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."
Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.
Roland Perry
2018-03-20 13:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the former
by an order of magnitude.
The figures are available online.
"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."
Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.
They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-20 13:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:20:23 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the
former
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
by an order of magnitude.
The figures are available online.
"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."
Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.
They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously.
No shit sherlock. It certainly won't be car drivers, there arn't enough parking
spaces.
Roland Perry
2018-03-20 13:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Given an airliner can use anything up to a ton of fuel (747) just to taxi
around a large airport such as Heathrow ,
Divided by the number of passengers then leaving by road.
It would be interesting to see how many people arrive by car or taxi vs
train/tube or bus/coach. I would guess the latter probably exceeds the
former
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
by an order of magnitude.
The figures are available online.
"59% of passengers at Heathrow travel to the airport by car or taxi, 28%
use rail and 13% bus/coach."
Strange. I suppose minicabs will account for a lot too.
They are included in the car/taxi total, obviously.
No shit sherlock. It certainly won't be car drivers, there arn't enough parking
spaces.
You appear to be under the misapprehension that a significant number of
Heathrow passengers drive themselves to the airport and park for the
duration. The size of the available parking, let alone the cost, means
this simply "doesn't compute".

Apart from a handful of business passengers paying to park for a few
days using someone else's money (and probably costing more than the
flight itself).

While I don't claim to be a typical flyer, I do end up being "taxi-dad"
[fsvo 'dad'] for a significant number of flyers over the years.

In any one year I probably shuttle half a dozen family/friend flyers to
one or more airports (Heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester dominate) but
it's many years since I drove myself (with or without family) to an
airport and parked there while *we* did a flight.

As this is UTL, I have to confess the last time was probably around
2010, and parking at Luton Airport *station* (as a backdoor) but only
because my return flights to Luton were after MML could be bothered to
provide any trains back to my home town.

And that's the tragedy, for the UK rail system.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2018-03-20 14:20:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 13:54:23 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
As this is UTL, I have to confess the last time was probably around
2010, and parking at Luton Airport *station* (as a backdoor) but only
Don't most stations have a parking duration limit which could easily be
exceeded by a holiday?
Roland Perry
2018-03-20 14:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Roland Perry
As this is UTL, I have to confess the last time was probably around
2010, and parking at Luton Airport *station* (as a backdoor) but only
Don't most stations have a parking duration limit which could easily be
exceeded by a holiday?
I don't think that's necessarily the case, but times I parked at Luton
Airport Parkway station were on average for three day business trips.

And not *always* as a complete back door. At least once it was because
my outbound trip was from the Midlands via Gatwick (park at Luton then
use Thameslink), return to Luton, drive back to the Midlands.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
2018-03-16 13:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard J.
Post by Clive Page
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50, otherwise normal fares.
An important question I can't see an answer to is: does a zone 1-6
travelcard cover travel on the Elizabeth Line as far as Heathrow?
Yes it does. Also Freedom Passes.
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2018/march/mayor-of-lon
don-announces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line
What appears to be happening here is that while PAYG fares have a
premium, you will reach the existing (and continuing) daily cap very
quickly. Verily a tourist tax on people doing one one-way trip to/from
Heathrow on a particular day.

The fudge continues, even under TfL management, that the ex Heathrow
Connect (now Elizabeth Line) stations may be geographically in Z6, but
they are not for fares purposes. Apart from this concession about
capping/all-day tickets.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2018-03-16 12:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected!
More northerly than North Pole?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2018-03-16 13:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/elizabeth-line-fares-to-match-tube-
prices-but-heathrow-passengers-set-to-pay-premium-a3791496.html
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Someone Somewhere
Excessive premiumm to LHR from Z1 - £7.20,  from Z2 only £4.50,
otherwise normal fares.
And Crossrail now appears to go more northerly than was expected!
More northerly than North Pole?
Depends on your choice of North Pole.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Loading...