Discussion:
Oyster product pickup improvements
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Matthew Dickinson
2017-02-23 19:47:36 UTC
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From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on buses.

TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.

Details are at:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%2095%20Redacted.pdf
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-24 07:40:53 UTC
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Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3
/Issue%2095%20Redacted.pdf
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent out-of-London
users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline too once, topping up
for a planned journey the next day. Living in Cambridge I can't even be sure
where I'll start an Oyster journey.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Richard J.
2017-02-24 11:37:45 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3
/Issue%2095%20Redacted.pdf
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent out-of-London
users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline too once, topping up
for a planned journey the next day. Living in Cambridge I can't even be sure
where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
Arthur Conan Doyle
2017-02-24 15:52:21 UTC
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Post by Richard J.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
Perhaps. I received a small post journey credit on a couple of Oyster cards that
apparently exceeded the daily cap one day. I nominated Edgware station thinking
I'd be back there soon, but haven't made it yet and haven't been concerned
enough to change the nomination.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-25 02:29:25 UTC
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Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%
2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent out-of-London
users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline too once,
topping up for a planned journey the next day. Living in Cambridge I
can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
tim...
2017-02-25 10:31:05 UTC
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Post by Matthew Dickinson
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%
2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent
out-of-London
users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline too once,
topping up for a planned journey the next day. Living in Cambridge I
can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
me neither

the auto-top-up that works for me is

5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds

tim
Post by Matthew Dickinson
--
Colin Rosenstiel
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-25 12:00:34 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this
improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%
2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by tim...
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent
out-of-London users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline
too once,topping up for a planned journey the next day. Living in
Cambridge I can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
me neither
the auto-top-up that works for me is
5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds
My balance is almost always below £5.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-02-25 12:14:53 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
me neither
the auto-top-up that works for me is
5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2017-02-25 12:47:25 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
For anyone with a contactless card it's kind of losing its role anyway.
I cashed all my Oysters in and now just use contactless.

Neil
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Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
s***@potato.field
2017-02-25 18:59:08 UTC
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 12:47:25 +0000
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
For anyone with a contactless card it's kind of losing its role anyway.
I cashed all my Oysters in and now just use contactless.
Gotta love contactless. Chip and pin arrives - there being a damn good reason
for the PIN - then the banks decide they'll get more transactions if they
remove the PIN and pretend its not really needed after all. So why do I
need one if I put the card in the slot but not if I use contactless? What
exactly is the qualitative difference? Answer: there isn't one. But the
banks have convinced suckers theres no security risk with contactless. Ah
well, you can't educate pork. Must be a field day for card thieves.
--
Spud
Neil Williams
2017-02-25 19:16:49 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
Gotta love contactless. Chip and pin arrives - there being a damn good reason
for the PIN - then the banks decide they'll get more transactions if they
remove the PIN and pretend its not really needed after all. So why do I
need one if I put the card in the slot but not if I use contactless? What
exactly is the qualitative difference? Answer: there isn't one.
There's a *quantitative* difference, namely the £30 cap, and the fact
that if you do more than N transactions in a row the PIN will be called
for.

Yes, thieves could nick a wallet and go around spending about 5 x £30
(£150) with it before they had issues. But that's not going to, er,
break the bank. And if it did happen, the end customer is not liable.

It's basically making cards more of an effective replacement for cash,
and I encourage that, as cash is a faff (and encourages the black
market etc).

Neil
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Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-25 19:52:22 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
Gotta love contactless. Chip and pin arrives - there being a damn good
reason for the PIN - then the banks decide they'll get more transactions
if they remove the PIN and pretend its not really needed after all. So
why do I need one if I put the card in the slot but not if I use
there isn't one.
There's a *quantitative* difference, namely the £30 cap, and the fact
that if you do more than N transactions in a row the PIN will be
called for.
Yes, thieves could nick a wallet and go around spending about 5 x £30
(£150) with it before they had issues. But that's not going to, er,
break the bank. And if it did happen, the end customer is not liable.
It's basically making cards more of an effective replacement for
cash, and I encourage that, as cash is a faff (and encourages the
black market etc).
While I agree with you, would a contactless card be declined at a TfL
gateline for lack of a PIN?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
s***@potato.field
2017-02-25 20:23:57 UTC
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:16:49 +0000
Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
Gotta love contactless. Chip and pin arrives - there being a damn good reason
for the PIN - then the banks decide they'll get more transactions if they
remove the PIN and pretend its not really needed after all. So why do I
need one if I put the card in the slot but not if I use contactless? What
exactly is the qualitative difference? Answer: there isn't one.
There's a *quantitative* difference, namely the £30 cap, and the fact
that if you do more than N transactions in a row the PIN will be called
for.
For various values of N.
Post by Neil Williams
Yes, thieves could nick a wallet and go around spending about 5 x £30
(£150) with it before they had issues. But that's not going to, er,
break the bank. And if it did happen, the end customer is not liable.
Oh sure. All you have to do is get a crime number from plod then sit on an
0845 number going through half a dozen menus to eventually get through to
some gimp from india who you need to convince that you're not trying to
commit fraud. And then you might get your money back next week. Great so
long as you don't need it in the meantime.
Post by Neil Williams
It's basically making cards more of an effective replacement for cash,
and I encourage that, as cash is a faff (and encourages the black
market etc).
In what universe is cash a faff??
--
Spud
tim...
2017-02-26 12:59:28 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:16:49 +0000
Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
Gotta love contactless. Chip and pin arrives - there being a damn good reason
for the PIN - then the banks decide they'll get more transactions if they
remove the PIN and pretend its not really needed after all. So why do I
need one if I put the card in the slot but not if I use contactless? What
exactly is the qualitative difference? Answer: there isn't one.
There's a *quantitative* difference, namely the £30 cap, and the fact
that if you do more than N transactions in a row the PIN will be called
for.
For various values of N.
Post by Neil Williams
Yes, thieves could nick a wallet and go around spending about 5 x £30
(£150) with it before they had issues. But that's not going to, er,
break the bank. And if it did happen, the end customer is not liable.
Oh sure. All you have to do is get a crime number from plod
Oh no you don't
Post by s***@potato.field
then sit on an
0845 number going through half a dozen menus to eventually get through to
some gimp from india who you need to convince that you're not trying to
commit fraud. And then you might get your money back next week.
that's probably true :-(

tim
Neil Williams
2017-02-26 14:25:27 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by s***@potato.field
Oh sure. All you have to do is get a crime number from plod
Oh no you don't
Post by s***@potato.field
then sit on an
0845 number going through half a dozen menus to eventually get through to
some gimp from india who you need to convince that you're not trying to
commit fraud. And then you might get your money back next week.
that's probably true :-(
I've been hit by (pre-C&P) card fraud twice. In both cases, it was the
bank that pointed it out to me, by phoning and asking if I really did
make certain transactions.

I get an automated call like that every now and then if my spending
pattern is in any way out of character.

While if I have £100 in my wallet, and my wallet is nicked, my £100 is
gone for good.

Neil
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Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
s***@potato.field
2017-02-27 09:40:34 UTC
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 12:59:28 -0000
Post by tim...
Post by s***@potato.field
Oh sure. All you have to do is get a crime number from plod
Oh no you don't
I imagine it depends on the bank. Using someone elses card without permission
is fraud and the police probably would want it reported anyway though perhaps
some banks wouldn't.
--
Spud
Guy Gorton
2017-02-26 09:59:24 UTC
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:16:49 +0000, Neil Williams
Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
Gotta love contactless. Chip and pin arrives - there being a damn good reason
for the PIN - then the banks decide they'll get more transactions if they
remove the PIN and pretend its not really needed after all. So why do I
need one if I put the card in the slot but not if I use contactless? What
exactly is the qualitative difference? Answer: there isn't one.
There's a *quantitative* difference, namely the £30 cap, and the fact
that if you do more than N transactions in a row the PIN will be called
for.
Yes, thieves could nick a wallet and go around spending about 5 x £30
(£150) with it before they had issues. But that's not going to, er,
break the bank. And if it did happen, the end customer is not liable.
It's basically making cards more of an effective replacement for cash,
and I encourage that, as cash is a faff (and encourages the black
market etc).
Neil
Cash is so simple and fast. Perhaps not as fast as contactless but I
will not use contactless for lots of reasons. I have two such cards
and hope, when they are replaced to get new cards without that
dangerous and vulnerable feature.
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.


Guy Gorton
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-02-26 11:05:46 UTC
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 09:59:24 +0000, Guy Gorton
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I wouldn't bank on it
Experian,Equifax or other credit reporting agencies exist to provide
just that sort of information.

G.Harman
Neil Williams
2017-02-26 14:23:40 UTC
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Post by Guy Gorton
Cash is so simple and fast. Perhaps not as fast as contactless but I
will not use contactless for lots of reasons. I have two such cards
and hope, when they are replaced to get new cards without that
dangerous and vulnerable feature.
It is not a dangerous and vulnerable feature. It is in fact a lot less
risky than having £150 cash in your wallet (the approximate most you
can spend on a card without hitting a PIN check). But unlike £150
cash, if that happens you'll get the money back - the vendor loses out,
not you.
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I'm not very interesting, really (or rather my spending pattern isn't).
FWIW, that expectation of privacy seems to reduce further still the
younger people you speak to.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-02-26 15:18:40 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I'm not very interesting, really (or rather my spending pattern isn't).
FWIW, that expectation of privacy seems to reduce further still the
younger people you speak to.
That's because they are young and dumb.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2017-02-26 16:01:10 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I'm not very interesting, really (or rather my spending pattern isn't).
FWIW, that expectation of privacy seems to reduce further still the
younger people you speak to.
That's because they are young and dumb.
No, it's because attitudes are shifting.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-02-26 16:17:35 UTC
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I'm not very interesting, really (or rather my spending pattern
isn't). FWIW, that expectation of privacy seems to reduce further
still the younger people you speak to.
That's because they are young and dumb.
No, it's because attitudes are shifting.
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.

Early adopters of exploitation are those doing sextortion (criminal
under old laws) and revenge porn (mainly ex-partners, and only recently
criminalised).
--
Roland Perry
r***@gmail.com
2017-03-01 08:45:50 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I'm not very interesting, really (or rather my spending pattern
isn't). FWIW, that expectation of privacy seems to reduce further
still the younger people you speak to.
That's because they are young and dumb.
No, it's because attitudes are shifting.
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Post by Roland Perry
Early adopters of exploitation are those doing sextortion (criminal
under old laws) and revenge porn (mainly ex-partners, and only recently
criminalised).
Early adopter? Facebook shifted from "students only" to "anyone with an email address" in the same year Windows Vista came out. Would you regard people using Windows Vista as "early adopters"?

Robin
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 09:21:10 UTC
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Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Guy Gorton
Do you and others that use traceable payments not value just a tiny
bit of privacy? I have 4 credit cards (and a debit card) each used
for very specific purposes so no one creditor knows all about me.
I'm not very interesting, really (or rather my spending pattern
isn't). FWIW, that expectation of privacy seems to reduce further
still the younger people you speak to.
That's because they are young and dumb.
No, it's because attitudes are shifting.
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Early adopters of exploitation are those doing sextortion (criminal
under old laws) and revenge porn (mainly ex-partners, and only recently
criminalised).
Early adopter?
Early adoption *OF EXPLOITATION*, not of social media itself.
Post by r***@gmail.com
Facebook shifted from "students only" to "anyone with an email address"
in the same year Windows Vista came out. Would you regard people using
Windows Vista as "early adopters"?
If you want to discuss "early adopters of social media" instead, then my
view is that Facebook moved out of the early adopter phase in 2009. I
joined Facebook in June 2007.

And the concept of "early adopter" doesn't have a sole timescale. eg For
mobile phone new models it's reckoned to be ~4 months.
--
Roland Perry
s***@potato.field
2017-03-01 09:43:29 UTC
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On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 09:21:10 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.
I'm not so sure about that. After all, *this* is social media, albeit text
only and anyone who knows anything about usenet could track down a load of
information about us on here. And even though I use an alias I know its not
foolproof and if someone wanted to find out who I was then with a bit of
effort they could and then they'll know all my views which may or may not be
a good fit with Acme Plc or whoever. Luckily usenet is off the radar to most
people these days but its not 100% guaranteed especially when applying for
jobs with IT companies.
--
Spud
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 10:29:15 UTC
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Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.
I'm not so sure about that. After all, *this* is social media, albeit text
only and anyone who knows anything about usenet could track down a load of
information about us on here.
Yes, it is, and they could.
Post by s***@potato.field
And even though I use an alias I know its not foolproof and if someone
wanted to find out who I was then with a bit of effort they could and
then they'll know all my views which may or may not be a good fit with
Acme Plc or whoever. Luckily usenet is off the radar to most people
these days but its not 100% guaranteed especially when applying for
jobs with IT companies.
Which proves my point - until senior managers take an attitude of "there
but for the grace of god go I" regarding over-exuberant Usenet postings,
there is a risk. And despite Usenet being more widespread since the
eternal september, I don't think many senior managers have reached that
yet.
--
Roland Perry
Clank
2017-03-01 19:19:12 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.
I'm not so sure about that. After all, *this* is social media, albeit text
only and anyone who knows anything about usenet could track down a load of
information about us on here.
Yes, it is, and they could.
Post by s***@potato.field
And even though I use an alias I know its not foolproof and if someone
wanted to find out who I was then with a bit of effort they could and
then they'll know all my views which may or may not be a good fit with
Acme Plc or whoever. Luckily usenet is off the radar to most people
these days but its not 100% guaranteed especially when applying for
jobs with IT companies.
Which proves my point - until senior managers take an attitude of "there
but for the grace of god go I" regarding over-exuberant Usenet postings,
there is a risk. And despite Usenet being more widespread since the
eternal september, I don't think many senior managers have reached that
yet.
Speaking as a senior manager, I'm pretty sure there are postings I made on
Usenet in the 1980s I'd probably regret now, and being well aware of the
perils of social media would absolutely not be holding someone's youthful
indiscretions against them provided they're not of a nature that brings
into doubt their trustworthiness.

I suspect I am not unique and senior managers - in tech firms in particular
- are rather more forward thinking than you imagine. (Many of my peers do
not, for example, think a mobile boarding pass is the work of the devil and
don't insist on using a phone made of bakelite because the batteries in
those new fangled smartphones just don't last enough...)
Arthur Conan Doyle
2017-03-02 00:23:59 UTC
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Post by Clank
Speaking as a senior manager, I'm pretty sure there are postings I made on
Usenet in the 1980s I'd probably regret now, and being well aware of the
perils of social media would absolutely not be holding someone's youthful
indiscretions against them provided they're not of a nature that brings
into doubt their trustworthiness.
That certainly is common, although I can recall advising people as a systems
administrator back in the early 80s (when the internet, such as it was then, was
only researchers and students with real name .edu addresses) that the internet
was forever and that they needed to be a little more circumspect.
Roland Perry
2017-03-02 08:13:25 UTC
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Post by Clank
until senior managers take an attitude of "there but for the grace of
god go I" regarding over-exuberant Usenet postings, there is a risk.
And despite Usenet being more widespread since the eternal september,
I don't think many senior managers have reached that yet.
Speaking as a senior manager, I'm pretty sure there are postings I made on
Usenet in the 1980s I'd probably regret now, and being well aware of the
perils of social media would absolutely not be holding someone's youthful
indiscretions against them provided they're not of a nature that brings
into doubt their trustworthiness.
I suspect I am not unique and senior managers - in tech firms in particular
- are rather more forward thinking than you imagine.
A lot of senior managers I know still get someone to print out their
emails so they can read them. Beware viewing the world from inside a
tech-bubble.
--
Roland Perry
r***@gmail.com
2017-03-01 10:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.
Facebook has been around longer than that. Those people who started using it when it was new and cool among undergraduates are now past 30.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Early adopters of exploitation are those doing sextortion (criminal
under old laws) and revenge porn (mainly ex-partners, and only recently
criminalised).
Early adopter?
Early adoption *OF EXPLOITATION*, not of social media itself.
Social media *is* exploitation, that is it's entire business model.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Facebook shifted from "students only" to "anyone with an email address"
in the same year Windows Vista came out. Would you regard people using
Windows Vista as "early adopters"?
If you want to discuss "early adopters of social media" instead, then my
view is that Facebook moved out of the early adopter phase in 2009. I
joined Facebook in June 2007.
Right, that's because you weren't in full time education in that period. Facebook went through "early adopter" and into "universal acceptance" for its core demographic, the 18-25 year olds, when it was still restricted to university students, around 2005 (I was a graduate student and definitely felt like a "late adopter" because I only joined in late 2005 or early 2006). It was only when those people started leaving university, so FB had to open access up to those not in full time education to prevent it's core user base being booted of, that older people became aware of it.

Robin
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 11:23:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".
Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.
Facebook has been around longer than that. Those people who started
using it when it was new and cool among undergraduates are now past 30.
And the senior managers whose opinion matters (ie actually set the HR
policies) are in their 50's and above.
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Early adopters of exploitation are those doing sextortion (criminal
under old laws) and revenge porn (mainly ex-partners, and only recently
criminalised).
Early adopter?
Early adoption *OF EXPLOITATION*, not of social media itself.
Social media *is* exploitation, that is it's entire business model.
OK third time lucky: "of exploitation *BY CRIMINALS*"
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
Post by r***@gmail.com
Facebook shifted from "students only" to "anyone with an email address"
in the same year Windows Vista came out. Would you regard people using
Windows Vista as "early adopters"?
If you want to discuss "early adopters of social media" instead, then my
view is that Facebook moved out of the early adopter phase in 2009. I
joined Facebook in June 2007.
Right, that's because you weren't in full time education in that
period. Facebook went through "early adopter" and into "universal
acceptance" for its core demographic, the 18-25 year olds, when it was
still restricted to university students, around 2005 (I was a graduate
student and definitely felt like a "late adopter" because I only joined
in late 2005 or early 2006). It was only when those people started
leaving university, so FB had to open access up to those not in full
time education to prevent it's core user base being booted of, that
older people became aware of it.
With the iPhone only being launched in 2007, and that itself being a
game-changer, I'm not convinced that Facebook as a medium for sharing
naked selfies and tales of drunken nights out was happening as early as
you suggest.
--
Roland Perry
r***@gmail.com
2017-03-01 12:49:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
With the iPhone only being launched in 2007, and that itself being a
game-changer, I'm not convinced that Facebook as a medium for sharing
naked selfies and tales of drunken nights out was happening as early as
you suggest.
I've just checked my own facebook profile. It looks like I was mis-remembering slightly. My circle of friends from the time (I was a graduate student in those days) started joining in early 2006 (February and March), although I didn't actually sign up until summer 2006. Pretty much the only thing on any of our timelines for 2006 were invitations to, tales about and photographs of drunken nights out. The first I appeared in was 19 September 2006. Nothing too outrageous in my case, certainly nothing I'd be too worried about, say, my mum seeing.

Robin
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 13:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
Post by Roland Perry
With the iPhone only being launched in 2007, and that itself being a
game-changer, I'm not convinced that Facebook as a medium for sharing
naked selfies and tales of drunken nights out was happening as early as
you suggest.
I've just checked my own facebook profile. It looks like I was
mis-remembering slightly. My circle of friends from the time (I was a
graduate student in those days) started joining in early 2006 (February
and March), although I didn't actually sign up until summer 2006.
Pretty much the only thing on any of our timelines for 2006 were
invitations to, tales about and photographs of drunken nights out. The
first I appeared in was 19 September 2006. Nothing too outrageous in
my case, certainly nothing I'd be too worried about, say, my mum seeing.
Must be a local thing. The University Students I talked to around then
complained about being forced to join Facebook against their will
because Lecturers and Supervisors had taken to it as [the sole] way to
distribute schedules and course material.

I suppose this was ahead of the Universities setting up their own
Intranet based versions of the same thing.
--
Roland Perry
Arthur Figgis
2017-03-01 18:38:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
If you want to discuss "early adopters of social media" instead,
then my view is that Facebook moved out of the early adopter phase
in 2009. I joined Facebook in June 2007.
When I was a student, c.1999 someone I vaguely knew set up a website
where people could upload newfangled digital photos relatively easily,
label their mates in them and generally cyberstalk people. If only I'd
given him a few quid to develop the idea further and introduce it to a
wider public...
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Roland Perry
2017-03-02 08:18:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Roland Perry
If you want to discuss "early adopters of social media" instead,
then my view is that Facebook moved out of the early adopter phase
in 2009. I joined Facebook in June 2007.
When I was a student, c.1999 someone I vaguely knew set up a website
where people could upload newfangled digital photos relatively easily,
label their mates in them and generally cyberstalk people. If only I'd
given him a few quid to develop the idea further and introduce it to a
wider public...
An acquaintance of mine, Joel, set up such a site for Internet industry
insiders in around 1999, later threw it open to all comers.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-01 22:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@gmail.com
Early adopter? Facebook shifted from "students only" to "anyone with
an email address" in the same year Windows Vista came out. Would you
regard people using Windows Vista as "early adopters"?
Early adopters of Vista, certainly. Nobody else ever adopted it
--
Colin Rosenstiel
s***@potato.field
2017-02-27 09:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 26 Feb 2017 09:59:24 +0000
Post by Guy Gorton
On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:16:49 +0000, Neil Williams
Post by Neil Williams
It's basically making cards more of an effective replacement for cash,
and I encourage that, as cash is a faff (and encourages the black
market etc).
Neil
Cash is so simple and fast. Perhaps not as fast as contactless but I
will not use contactless for lots of reasons. I have two such cards
and hope, when they are replaced to get new cards without that
dangerous and vulnerable feature.
Contactless is easy to disable. Just cut horizontally for about 1.5cm inwards
from the right hand side of the card. I've done it to all of mine so they'll
be of little use if nicked plus it has the added bonus of me not having to
drag my oyster card out of my wallet at every tube gate because of card clash.
--
Spud
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-25 19:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
For anyone with a contactless card it's kind of losing its role
anyway. I cashed all my Oysters in and now just use contactless.
That's fine until you get a railcard. Then the only way to get the railcard
discount is to use Oyster, until 2018 at least.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Clive Page
2017-02-25 21:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
That's fine until you get a railcard. Then the only way to get the railcard
discount is to use Oyster, until 2018 at least.
What's changing in 2018?
--
Clive Page
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-26 01:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive Page
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
That's fine until you get a railcard. Then the only way to get the
railcard discount is to use Oyster, until 2018 at least.
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find a way to
deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Clive Page
2017-02-26 22:46:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
That's fine until you get a railcard. Then the only way to get the
railcard discount is to use Oyster, until 2018 at least.
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find a way to
deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Isn't it more likely that they will get rid of the railcard discounts
from Oyster cards as well?
--
Clive Page
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-27 01:26:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive Page
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
That's fine until you get a railcard. Then the only way to get the
railcard discount is to use Oyster, until 2018 at least.
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find a
way to deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Isn't it more likely that they will get rid of the railcard discounts
from Oyster cards as well?
I don't think the TOCs will let them. I think giving railcard discounts was
a condition for extending Oyster to National Rail in London.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Jarle Hammen Knudsen
2017-02-27 20:23:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find a way to
deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Why are they spending money on a fast pickup feature when the need for
one will be gone in a year's time?
--
jhk
Michael R N Dolbear
2017-02-27 23:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find a way to
deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Why are they spending money on a fast pickup feature when the need for
one will be gone in a year's time?


My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
--
Mike D
s***@potato.field
2017-02-28 09:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 27 Feb 2017 23:21:38 -0000
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find a way to
deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Why are they spending money on a fast pickup feature when the need for
one will be gone in a year's time?
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
--
Spud
Roland Perry
2017-02-28 09:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find
a way to deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Why are they spending money on a fast pickup feature when the need for
one will be gone in a year's time?
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.
--
Roland Perry
s***@potato.field
2017-02-28 09:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:45:53 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops? If not there seems to be
scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.
--
Spud
Neil Williams
2017-02-28 11:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops?
No, because it would bring TfL under banking regulation - that's why
present Oyster isn't either.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-02-28 10:37:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops?
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Post by s***@potato.field
If not there seems to be
scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.
And also only extracts a day's travel each time, not £20/£40.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 13:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as
now, newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops?
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018. It's
just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held that
will change, from the card itself to the back office system.

As others have said, there are unrelated reasons why the credit can't be
used in shops.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
If not there seems to be
scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.
And also only extracts a day's travel each time, not £20/£40.
Maybe that won't change either.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Neil Williams
2017-02-28 14:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
And also only extracts a day's travel each time, not £20/£40.
Maybe that won't change either.
I doubt it will, duplicating functionality of contactless debit cards
is totally pointless. The Oyster offering is different and may as well
remain different.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
s***@potato.field
2017-02-28 14:55:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018. It's
just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held that
will change, from the card itself to the back office system.
With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy system.
Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve gate throughput
at all.
--
Spud
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 16:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held
that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.
With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.
Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Someone Somewhere
2017-02-28 17:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held
that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.
With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.
Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?
Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads it,
calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for Contactless it
reads it, and I believe checks with the back end before allowing it, or
if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking up the NFC chip and
carrying out the relevant authentication steps - again nothing to do
with Moore's law.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 18:37:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 07:38:36 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is
held that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.
With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.
Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?
Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads
it, calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for
Contactless it reads it, and I believe checks with the back end
before allowing it, or if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking
up the NFC chip and carrying out the relevant authentication steps -
again nothing to do with Moore's law.
Everything to do with it, I can assure you.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Someone Somewhere
2017-03-01 07:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?
Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads
it, calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for
Contactless it reads it, and I believe checks with the back end
before allowing it, or if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking
up the NFC chip and carrying out the relevant authentication steps -
again nothing to do with Moore's law.
Everything to do with it, I can assure you.
Really? That the time to deal with either an Oyster or Contactless card
is lower bounded due in signficant part to either CPU cycles or die size?
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-01 15:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard
of Moore's Law?
Moore's law has nothing to do with the speed of communications which
seems to be the limiting factor here - for Oyster the reader reads
it, calculated what needs to be applied and writes it, for
Contactless it reads it, and I believe checks with the back end
before allowing it, or if it doesn't the delay is to do with waking
up the NFC chip and carrying out the relevant authentication steps
-
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
again nothing to do with Moore's law.
Everything to do with it, I can assure you.
Really? That the time to deal with either an Oyster or Contactless
card is lower bounded due in signficant part to either CPU cycles or
die size?
All aspects of the system affect processing speed.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
s***@potato.field
2017-03-01 16:17:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 09:37:46 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Really? That the time to deal with either an Oyster or Contactless
card is lower bounded due in signficant part to either CPU cycles or
die size?
All aspects of the system affect processing speed.
Ultimately though, a networked systems is constrained by the speed of data
on a copper wire or fibre optic cable and thats capped by physics.
--
Spud
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-02 01:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 09:37:46 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Someone Somewhere
Really? That the time to deal with either an Oyster or Contactless
card is lower bounded due in signficant part to either CPU cycles or
die size?
All aspects of the system affect processing speed.
Ultimately though, a networked systems is constrained by the speed of
data on a copper wire or fibre optic cable and thats capped by physics.
How much of the networking isn't fibre these days? How much that isn't won't
be by 2018? Compare 4G wireless data speeds with earlier generations. Copper
is just so passé.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 08:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Roland Perry
No, because it has zero credit on it.
Oyster cards do have credit on them and will continue to have in 2018.
It's just, AIUI, where the information as to the amount of credit is held
that will change, from the card itself to the back office system.
With a consequent slowdown at the gates. Just what's needed in a busy
system. Contactless are already slower than Oyster, this won't improve
gate throughput at all.
Don't assume the gate processing won't get faster. Haven't you heard of
Moore's Law?
Currently chips have transistors about 50 atoms across. Get much
smaller, and quantum effects start to kick in. And heat dissipation
is a huge issue. Moore's Law is slowing down.
--
Roland Perry
David Walters
2017-02-28 11:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:45:53 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops? If not there seems to be
scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.
It allows TfL to do things like weekly capping that the current Oyster
cards can't do.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 13:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Walters
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:45:53 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as
now, newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of
any journeys made.
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops? If not there seems
to be scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.
It allows TfL to do things like weekly capping that the current Oyster
cards can't do.
While that is true it's also moving with the technology. If each card is in
effect just a token, with all the data held centrally, the scope for all
sorts of failure modes is reduced. When Oyster started continuous
communication to readers wasn't practical. It is now.

Communications is a very fast-developing field, as I've seen in a past
career in the field.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Arthur Figgis
2017-02-28 18:01:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 09:45:53 +0000
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of any
journeys made.
I wonder if one will be able to use it in shops?
Probably not, for all the TfL-not-being-a-bank reasons that Oyster can't
be used in shops.

If not there seems to be
Post by s***@potato.field
scarcely any difference between that and a current auto top up.
It will allow the processing to be done in the back-office, so cleverer
stuff can be done with account-based fare capping, railcards, discounts etc.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Neil Williams
2017-02-28 11:25:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect a
contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of
any journeys made.
Whatever would be the point in that? That would be duplicating the
function of a contactless debit card.

What it will do is store credit, but will do so on a back-end online
system rather than the card, the latter being simple RFID.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-02-28 11:46:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect
a contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of
any journeys made.
Whatever would be the point in that? That would be duplicating the
function of a contactless debit card.
Some people are averse to contactless credit cards, because they
perceive a security risk (or at the very least a lot of hassle sorting
out security breaches), others don't have them either because of their
personal status, or the type of bank account.
Post by Neil Williams
What it will do is store credit, but will do so on a back-end online
system rather than the card, the latter being simple RFID.
Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 13:38:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect
a contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of
any journeys made.
Whatever would be the point in that? That would be duplicating the
function of a contactless debit card.
Some people are averse to contactless credit cards, because they
perceive a security risk (or at the very least a lot of hassle
sorting out security breaches), others don't have them either because
of their personal status, or the type of bank account.
Post by Neil Williams
What it will do is store credit, but will do so on a back-end online
system rather than the card, the latter being simple RFID.
Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".
They will be handled at the readers in the same way unlike now. So the need
for readers to write to cards will cease.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Neil Williams
2017-02-28 14:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".
It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is that it
will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-02-28 15:56:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".
It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is that it
will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.
Colin very plausibly says not. The records of travel and balance being
held in the backoffice rather than on the card is a substantial
difference.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2017-02-28 16:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".
It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is that it
will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.
Colin very plausibly says not. The records of travel and balance being
held in the backoffice rather than on the card is a substantial
difference.
You misunderstand.

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.

It will however be back-office processed using the contactless system.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 16:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Then it's not really at all "like a contactless credit/debit card".
It will be *processed using the same system*. The intention is
that it will be used the same way as an Oyster presently is.
Colin very plausibly says not. The records of travel and balance
being held in the backoffice rather than on the card is a
substantial difference.
You misunderstand.
It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.
It will however be back-office processed using the contactless system.
But facilities that can't be handled by Oyster cards now, like weekly
capping and the different way that daily capping is implemented, will change
to work the same way as Contactless does now.

Hence my question about a facility that Oyster can handle but Contactless
can't now, giving railcard discounts. If eligibility for the discount is
going to move from the card to the back office, I can see no good reason why
the same should not happen for Contactless.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 08:37:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.
If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
2017-03-01 08:44:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the passenger
is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend it by
travelling.
If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).
It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 09:17:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the
passenger is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired, spend
it by travelling.
If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).
It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.
OK, so the change is one that's only perceived by TfL, whereas the
passenger will see no change? Is that what you think it means.
--
Roland Perry
Matthew Dickinson
2017-03-01 09:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
One change will be that PAYG balances will no longer be displayed at the gateline or bus reader
(although low balance warnings might be pushed to gatelines and bus readers) which is one reason
why TfL want their own app up and running.
s***@potato.field
2017-03-01 10:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 01:40:04 -0800 (PST)
Post by Matthew Dickinson
One change will be that PAYG balances will no longer be displayed at the
gateline or bus reader
(although low balance warnings might be pushed to gatelines and bus readers)
which is one reason
why TfL want their own app up and running.
So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality? Seriously?
Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL seems to be
increasingly running things for the convenience of itself rather than the
passenger.
--
Spud
Neil Williams
2017-03-01 10:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality? Seriously?
Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL seems to be
increasingly running things for the convenience of itself rather than the
passenger.
There will be advantages - weekly capping for one, not having to "pick
up" travel products another.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
s***@potato.field
2017-03-01 10:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 10:22:55 +0000
Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality? Seriously?
Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL seems to be
increasingly running things for the convenience of itself rather than the
passenger.
There will be advantages - weekly capping for one, not having to "pick
up" travel products another.
Weekly capping doesn't help me if I find out too late I don't have enough
credit to make a journey when I could have topped up in a quiet time and now
have to go and queue in the rush hour.

Not sure what you're referring to with travel products.
--
Spud
Neil Williams
2017-03-01 14:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by s***@potato.field
Not sure what you're referring to with travel products.
Prepurchased time-based tickets bought online, like period Travelcards.
Though I suppose if you added a monthly cap you could do away with
them.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 10:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality? Seriously?
Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL seems to be
increasingly running things for the convenience of itself rather than the
passenger.
There will be advantages - weekly capping for one, not having to "pick
up" travel products another.
OK, so now we *have* found some features where the new Oyster card's
operation is different from the passenger's perception. I'm getting a
headache.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-03-01 22:32:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by s***@potato.field
So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality?
Seriously? Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL
seems to be increasingly running things for the convenience of itself
rather than the passenger.
There will be advantages - weekly capping for one, not having to "pick
up" travel products another.
OK, so now we *have* found some features where the new Oyster card's
operation is different from the passenger's perception. I'm getting a
headache.
Contactless and Oyster already calculate some journey prices differently,
the Contactless technology being able to spot some peak/non-peak
combinations which are cheaper than the choices Oyster has to make based on
the history up to each touch in/out only.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-03-01 10:33:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <45684e5a-96f5-4ea6-8f6b-***@googlegroups.com>, at
01:40:04 on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, Matthew Dickinson
Post by Matthew Dickinson
One change will be that PAYG balances will no longer be displayed at the gateline or bus reader
(although low balance warnings might be pushed to gatelines and bus readers) which is one reason
why TfL want their own app up and running.
That's verging on the unacceptable. But conforms with my general theory
that new technology almost always introduces obstacles/drawbacks of its
very own, that were not in the previous revision.

My own classic Oyster occasionally flashes up a message about "your card
is about to expire", or something similar (if they want people to read
it they should display it longer). But it isn't, and the next gateline
won't repeat it. Mystery glitch perhaps.
--
Roland Perry
David Walters
2017-03-01 11:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
My own classic Oyster occasionally flashes up a message about "your card
is about to expire", or something similar (if they want people to read
it they should display it longer). But it isn't, and the next gateline
won't repeat it. Mystery glitch perhaps.
That appears to be a bug with some of the gate software. The FOI obtained
copy of Ticketing & Revenue Update that started this thread has a Q&A
about it on page 13.
Arthur Figgis
2017-03-01 18:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the
passenger is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired,
spend it by travelling.
If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).
It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.
OK, so the change is one that's only perceived by TfL, whereas the
passenger will see no change? Is that what you think it means.
The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types of
fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products are
brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
tim...
2017-03-01 18:53:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Arthur Figgis
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Neil Williams
It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the
passenger is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired,
spend it by travelling.
If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).
It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.
OK, so the change is one that's only perceived by TfL, whereas the
passenger will see no change? Is that what you think it means.
The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types of
fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products are
brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.
especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied

seems like a recipe for disaster in the making

tim
Arthur Figgis
2017-03-01 19:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Arthur Figgis
The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types
of fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products
are brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.
especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied
Wouldn't they just need the money there ready for when the single,
capped, payment is required overnight?
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Matthew Dickinson
2017-03-01 19:29:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
This would only work (revenue risk wise) for Oyster cards with auto top-up set.

I suspect that back office Oyster cards without auto top-up set will calculate the balance after each journey, and push a top-up reminder to the readers if needed. This would still take some processing load off the gates, without exposing TfL to excessive revenue risk.
tim...
2017-03-02 08:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Arthur Figgis
The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types
of fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products
are brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.
especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied
Wouldn't they just need the money there ready for when the single, capped,
payment is required overnight?
and then if it isn't thus available, how do they "beep" at the gate to stop
you entering, for a journey that you have already completed?

tim
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK
Neil Williams
2017-03-02 00:15:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of
individual journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back
office cap is applied
seems like a recipe for disaster in the making
That is not how capping works. Capping works by stopping taking money
when the cap has been reached.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
tim...
2017-03-02 08:30:34 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Neil Williams
Post by tim...
especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied
seems like a recipe for disaster in the making
That is not how capping works. Capping works by stopping taking money
when the cap has been reached.
not when it reconciled overnight [1] in the back office, it doesn't

[1] which is the proposed plan (apparently)

tim

r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-28 13:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by s***@potato.field
Post by Michael R N Dolbear
Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Clive Page
What's changing in 2018?
Oyster will become like Contactless so presumably they have to find
a way to deal with railcard discounts in the back office system.
Why are they spending money on a fast pickup feature when the need
for one will be gone in a year's time?
My understanding is that current Oyster cards will be dealt with as now,
newly issued Oyster cards will be contactless style.
Err, Oyster have been contactless since they were introduced.
I read the comment as meaning the "new" Oyster card will be in effect
a contactless pre-paid credit card with zero credit loaded, but an
arrangement to auto-topup from a bank account by the exact amount of
any journeys made.
It won't necessarily use a bank account because Oyster is not restricted to
people who have bank accounts.

I presume the balance information will be held in the back office system
rather than in the chip on the card. As I said earlier, I presume this means
that railcard information will be held in the back office system after 2018
instead of on the card now.

In other words, the difference between Oyster and what is currently called
"Contactless" is that the latter has no data written to and stored on the
cards while Oyster does.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
tim...
2017-02-25 13:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
me neither
the auto-top-up that works for me is
5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
yes

that's the point!

tim
Roland Perry
2017-02-25 15:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
the auto-top-up that works for me is
5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
yes
that's the point!
How can a £5 auto-topup work for you when it doesn't exist?
--
Roland Perry
tim...
2017-02-25 17:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
the auto-top-up that works for me is
5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
yes
that's the point!
How can a £5 auto-topup work for you when it doesn't exist?
there's nothing in my post that says it exists

tim
Roland Perry
2017-02-26 08:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
Post by Roland Perry
Post by tim...
the auto-top-up that works for me is
5 pounds added when it goes below 5 pounds
Only £20 or £40 is available currently, and the trigger is £10.
yes
that's the point!
How can a £5 auto-topup work for you when it doesn't exist?
there's nothing in my post that says it exists
your saying "works", rather than "would work".
--
Roland Perry
Richard J.
2017-02-25 21:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Matthew Dickinson
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%
2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent out-of-London
users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline too once,
topping up for a planned journey the next day. Living in Cambridge I
can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
But if "the current rules are an utter pain", there must be some value
in a scheme which avoids the pain. So how much interest would you lose
by lending TfL £20? Isn't it worth it to avoid the utter pain?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-26 01:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
Post by Matthew Dickinson
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Is
sue%2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
Post by Matthew Dickinson
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent
out-of-London users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline
too once, topping up for a planned journey the next day. Living in
Cambridge I can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
But if "the current rules are an utter pain", there must be some
value in a scheme which avoids the pain. So how much interest would
you lose by lending TfL £20? Isn't it worth it to avoid the utter pain?
They rules are not that difficult to work around, especially now I go to
King's Cross so much less. I used to have to ensure I kept a balance big
enough to get through the gates there to avoid the hideous queues at the
ticket machines. It's just easier to top up from the comfort of my home
though.

More often than not I have my bike with me and don't use the tube.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Roland Perry
2017-02-26 08:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard J.
But if "the current rules are an utter pain", there must be some value
in a scheme which avoids the pain. So how much interest would you lose
by lending TfL £20? Isn't it worth it to avoid the utter pain?
I top up my Oyster manually when it gets to about £2. The only use I
have for it is two Z1 singles. The issue with pre-paid one-function
cards is that you can easily end up with a lot of them. A provincial bus
card being one example.

It's like those coffee-shop cardboard loyalty cards - when I buy a
coffee there's rarely a choice of vendor, so I'd need to be carrying
around half a dozen cards all the time.
--
Roland Perry
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-27 01:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Richard J.
But if "the current rules are an utter pain", there must be some value
in a scheme which avoids the pain. So how much interest would you lose
by lending TfL £20? Isn't it worth it to avoid the utter pain?
I top up my Oyster manually when it gets to about £2. The only use I
have for it is two Z1 singles. The issue with pre-paid one-function
cards is that you can easily end up with a lot of them. A provincial
bus card being one example.
It's like those coffee-shop cardboard loyalty cards - when I buy a
coffee there's rarely a choice of vendor, so I'd need to be carrying
around half a dozen cards all the time.
My usage is so irregular I just add £5 usually, occasionally just a bit of
small change, to cover my immediate needs. My most recent usage days were a
long series between 29th October and 1st December (11 days in all which some
of you might guess the reason for), before that 15th September, 2nd August
and 23rd April. Before that the last use was in 2015. Looking at the history
I am reminded of another reason I'm glad that the crediting system has
improved. I had a refund in 2015 due to the Heathrow T5 gates not
communicating properly (my wife had a similar problem there in the other
direction on the same trip) and arranging to pick it up was a right hassle.
Nowadays they can just credit your bank account.

I see I also got some odd messages and history records at North Sheen where
the ticket machines are inside the ticket barriers and I topped up between
entry and exit, something Oyster isn't really designed to do.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
tim...
2017-02-26 13:01:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Matthew Dickinson
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%
2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent
out-of-London
users like me. I got caught out by the evening deadline too once,
topping up for a planned journey the next day. Living in Cambridge I
can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
But if "the current rules are an utter pain", there must be some value in
a scheme which avoids the pain. So how much interest would you lose by
lending TfL £20? Isn't it worth it to avoid the utter pain?
what pain is that

going up to a machine and adding 5 pounds at the time that is convenient

tim
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-02-27 01:19:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by tim...
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Matthew Dickinson
From this April it should be possible to pick up online Oyster
purchases within 30 minutes, and without having to nominate a
particular station. It will also be possible to pick up purchases on
buses.
TfL are also planning to introduce an Oyster app to complement this
improvement.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/384275/response/941160/attach/3/Issue%
2095%20Redacted.pdf
Post by tim...
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Richard J.
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Hooray! The current rules are an utter pain for infrequent
out-of-London users like me. I got caught out by the evening
deadline too once, topping up for a planned journey the next day.
Living in Cambridge I can't even be sure where I'll start an Oyster
journey.
If you used Auto Top-up, you wouldn't have that problem.
I don't use Oyster enough to justify lending TfL so much money.
But if "the current rules are an utter pain", there must be some
value in a scheme which avoids the pain. So how much interest
would you lose by lending TfL £20? Isn't it worth it to avoid the
utter pain?
what pain is that
going up to a machine and adding 5 pounds at the time that is
convenient
You're not familiar with the queues at machines at some stations? The only
times that are convenient are the times when one is passing through the
station.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
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