Discussion:
Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
(too old to reply)
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-07 10:39:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?
Offramp
2017-12-07 13:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I do not know. But this is one of those things where I immediately think, I've got to go and see it. I'VE GOT TO GO AND SEE IT!
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-12-07 21:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?
Whole platform length or just a short section?
--
Colin Rosenstiel
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-08 09:58:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 07 Dec 2017 15:31:05 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?
Whole platform length or just a short section?
Seems to be the whole length.
Robin
2017-12-08 10:48:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?
Whole platform length or just a short section?
Loading Image...
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Adrian Caspersz
2017-12-10 15:57:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robin
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?
Whole platform length or just a short section?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Highbury_%26_Islington_stn_Great_Northern_southbound_look_north.JPG
CBTC radio?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/metros/london-underground-steps-up-victoria-line-frequency.html
--
Adrian C
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-11 10:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 10 Dec 2017 15:57:32 +0000
Post by Robin
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of
highbury station (and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate
line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from the ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is
left up at Drayton?
Whole platform length or just a short section?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Highbury_%26_Islington_stn_Great_Northe
n_southbound_look_north.JPG
CBTC radio?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications-based_train_control
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/metros/london-underground-steps-up-victori
-line-frequency.html
Only if they're using long wave! :)
Clive D.W. Feather
2017-12-16 23:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury station
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not some
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from the
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-18 10:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-18 14:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at Drayton?
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
however, until the engineer sets the power mode switch to the proper
setting.

The engineer will normally set the mode switch to DC, which also drops
the pans, though I have at times seen them coast into 3rd rail with the
pans up, and then only switch the power made when the train is out of
the wire.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-18 16:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Recliner
2017-12-18 16:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-18 16:12:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:06:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously
not
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.
That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.
Martin Coffee
2017-12-18 17:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 16:06:12 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously
not
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung
from
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.
That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.
You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-19 10:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:08:38 +0000
Post by Martin Coffee
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did when
it was first introduced.
That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.
You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."
Driving a train is a blue collar job. It probably requires less skill than
driving an HGV (which I have a license for invidentaly) or a bus. There's sod
all reason for them to be paid 50K+ for driving a vehicle that does everything
itself anyway except accelerate and brake even if not ATO.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-12-19 15:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:08:38 +0000
Post by Martin Coffee
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did
when it was first introduced.
That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.
You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."
Driving a train is a blue collar job. It probably requires less skill than
driving an HGV (which I have a license for invidentaly) or a bus.
There's sod all reason for them to be paid 50K+ for driving a vehicle
that does everything
itself anyway except accelerate and brake even if not ATO.
Showing your usual deep ignorance I see.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-20 09:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 09:47:38 -0600
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:08:38 +0000
Post by Martin Coffee
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Recliner
Guess what? Drivers of ATO trains get paid more, or at least they did
when it was first introduced.
That doesn't surprise me. Another please-don't-strike bribe no doubt.
You're not an MP are you? "Everyone gets a 0 or 1% pay rise except us."
Driving a train is a blue collar job. It probably requires less skill than
driving an HGV (which I have a license for invidentaly) or a bus.
There's sod all reason for them to be paid 50K+ for driving a vehicle
that does everything
itself anyway except accelerate and brake even if not ATO.
Showing your usual deep ignorance I see.
Feel free to fill us in on all the arduous tasks a train driver has to
perform.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-18 16:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Also don't have door overrides in case of an overshoot.
Scott
2017-12-22 17:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Recliner
2017-12-22 20:12:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 14:27:35 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 23:44:02 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound of highbury
station
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
(and maybe others, I didn't check) on the moorgate line? Its obviously not
some
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
old catenary since the line was always 3rd/4th rail and its only hung from
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
ceiling by some thin wires anyway. Is it in case a pan is left up at
Drayton?
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I believe that's the case, yes; it's not powered, it's just to stop the
pan disassembing itself on the tunnel roof. I've a vague memory that it
was put in when the line was handed over to BR.
That seemed the most likely scenario to me. Wonder how often the pan gets
left up on that line? Must happen occasionally.
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down. The train will not take power,
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its members,
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-24 16:45:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.
Recliner
2017-12-24 17:08:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.
Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.
Charles Ellson
2017-12-24 19:44:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Post by Recliner
Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-25 11:17:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
Charles Ellson
2017-12-25 17:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
The country is running today with an almost total lack of trains. In
any case, making strikes unlawful doesn't stop them occurring one way
or another.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-26 10:18:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 17:57:19 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently
use
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
The country is running today with an almost total lack of trains. In
any case, making strikes unlawful doesn't stop them occurring one way
or another.
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself unemployed
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
Charles Ellson
2017-12-27 00:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 17:57:19 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently
use
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
The country is running today with an almost total lack of trains. In
any case, making strikes unlawful doesn't stop them occurring one way
or another.
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself unemployed
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
Also a surefire way to lose the next election and/or make even more
people strike when they remember which other regimes have tried it.
Recliner
2017-12-27 00:18:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 17:57:19 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently
use
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
The country is running today with an almost total lack of trains. In
any case, making strikes unlawful doesn't stop them occurring one way
or another.
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself unemployed
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
Also a surefire way to lose the next election and/or make even more
people strike when they remember which other regimes have tried it.
Yes, that's certainly true. But a no-strike agreement with mandatory
pendulum arbitration can work for all sides.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-27 09:24:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 00:04:03 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
Also a surefire way to lose the next election and/or make even more
people strike when they remember which other regimes have tried it.
Yeah, right. Because banning prison officers from striking in 94 is what
made the tories lose the election in 97, right?
Charles Ellson
2017-12-27 20:27:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 00:04:03 +0000
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
Also a surefire way to lose the next election and/or make even more
people strike when they remember which other regimes have tried it.
Yeah, right. Because banning prison officers from striking in 94 is what
made the tories lose the election in 97, right?
Did they lock anyone up ?
Jeremy Double
2017-12-27 03:27:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 17:57:19 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently
use
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
The country is running today with an almost total lack of trains. In
any case, making strikes unlawful doesn't stop them occurring one way
or another.
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself unemployed
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are you
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
--
Jeremy Double
Roland Perry
2017-12-27 06:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
, at 03:27:04 on Wed, 27 Dec 2017, Jeremy Double
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself unemployed
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are you
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
You don't need to sack/imprison more than a handful, of course; just
enough to 'encourage the others'. Hence for example the original
definition of decimate.
--
Roland Perry
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-27 09:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are you
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired the
lot of them.
Charles Ellson
2017-12-27 20:36:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are you
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired the
lot of them.
Then took around ten years to clear up the consequences.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-27 21:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:36:58 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are you
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired the
lot of them.
Then took around ten years to clear up the consequences.
Better 2 years of pain than another few decades of the shit the RMT are
currently pulling.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2017-12-28 14:30:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:36:58 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are you
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired the
lot of them.
Then took around ten years to clear up the consequences.
Better 2 years of pain than another few decades of the shit the RMT are
currently pulling.
Who's gonna train your new train drivers after you've sacked all the
instructors? ;)


Anna Noyd-Dryver
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-28 16:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:30:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:36:58 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are
you
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
lot of them.
Then took around ten years to clear up the consequences.
Better 2 years of pain than another few decades of the shit the RMT are
currently pulling.
Who's gonna train your new train drivers after you've sacked all the
instructors? ;)
Some trained chimps?
Jeremy Double
2017-12-28 19:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:30:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:36:58 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen, how are
you
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve trained
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
lot of them.
Then took around ten years to clear up the consequences.
Better 2 years of pain than another few decades of the shit the RMT are
currently pulling.
Who's gonna train your new train drivers after you've sacked all the
instructors? ;)
Some trained chimps?
Now I know you’re trolling rather than trying to make a serious point.
--
Jeremy Double
Roland Perry
2017-12-28 20:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message
, at 19:23:18 on Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Jeremy Double
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Some trained chimps?
Now I know you’re trolling rather than trying to make a serious point.
Oh please. He's been "only trolling" for years.
--
Roland Perry
Basil Jet
2017-12-29 06:18:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Roland Perry
In message
, at 19:23:18 on Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Jeremy Double
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Some trained chimps?
Now I know you’re trolling rather than trying to make a serious point.
Oh please. He's been "only trolling" for years.
Are "boltar" and "Roland Perry" not the same person?
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-29 12:44:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 06:18:30 +0000
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Roland Perry
In message
, at 19:23:18 on Thu, 28 Dec 2017, Jeremy Double
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Some trained chimps?
Now I know you’re trolling rather than trying to make a serious point.
Oh please. He's been "only trolling" for years.
Are "boltar" and "Roland Perry" not the same person?
Wash your mouth out!
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-29 12:48:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 28 Dec 2017 19:23:18 GMT
Post by Jeremy Double
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 14:30:35 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 20:36:58 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On 27 Dec 2017 03:27:04 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself
unemployed
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
If you’ve sacked or put in prison all the qualified railwaymen,
how are
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
you
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
going run the trains in the months (or even years) until you’ve
trained
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
some more?
A bit of pain is worth it in the end. Anyway, thats exactly what the
air traffic controllers thought in the 80s in the USA until Reagan fired
the
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
lot of them.
Then took around ten years to clear up the consequences.
Better 2 years of pain than another few decades of the shit the RMT are
currently pulling.
Who's gonna train your new train drivers after you've sacked all the
instructors? ;)
Some trained chimps?
Now I know you’re trolling rather than trying to make a serious point.
Trolling and being sarcastic are not quite the same.

Apparently train drivers are paid the big bucks for when things go wrong not
when everything is going right. Unfortunately as has been proven time and time
again when things do go wrong they are generally about as much use as the
proverbial chocolate teapot and either the passengers end up walking along the
track or have to sit in the train until it can be towed.

Its time to admit that unlike back in the days of steam when driving a train
was a bloody hard physical job, these days its nothing more than sitting in
a moving office operating a computer and doesn't warrant 50K+ a year.
Anna Noyd-Dryver
2017-12-27 09:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 17:57:19 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 19:44:04 +0000
Post by Charles Ellson
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done
automatically
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO
anywhere
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently
use
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were
considered
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from
striking.
One of the first steps on the way to totalitarianism.
Keeping the country running is more important than your orwellian fantasies.
Perhaps you think the police should be free to strike?
The country is running today with an almost total lack of trains. In
any case, making strikes unlawful doesn't stop them occurring one way
or another.
Striking when in a no strike job is a surefire way to find yourself unemployed
or even in prison shortly afterwards.
You might, however, like to arrange that you employ sufficient drivers to
cover all services without needing overtime or rest day work (therefore
achieving one of ASLEF's hitherto un-met aims) before enforcing your strike
ban, otherwise you'll likely end up with a number of trains not running on
a daily basis...


Anna Noyd-Dryver
Mark Goodge
2017-12-24 19:51:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 17:08:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 20:12:32 GMT
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Thats a bit sophisticated for UK railways. Plus if it was done automatically
the RMT would probably call a strike about taking work away from its
members,
Post by Scott
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
thin end of the wedge, blah blah. I'm amazed we managed to get ATO anywhere
in this country.
Is this not more likely to affect ASLEF members?
Yes, very much so.
Aslef tend to be somewhat less militant. The RMT meanwhile consistently use
strike threats to blackmail management. IMO its time railways were considered
critical national infrastructure and so employees on them banned from striking.
Militancy goes in and out of fashion. There was a time when ASLEF was
extremely militant, and the NUR much more moderate.
It depends a lot whose jobs are most under threat. In BR days, with a
shrinking network and declining service, drivers were losing jobs
proportionally faster than other roles on the railway.
Post-privatisation, with expanding use of the railways but a shift
towards driver-only operation, ASLEF is growing again but RMT
membership is in significant decline. Expect ASLEF to suddenly start
being militant again when automated trains reach the mainline.

Mark
Clive D.W. Feather
2017-12-19 19:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.

I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
The train will not take power,
however, until the engineer sets the power mode switch to the proper
setting.
On 313s there's an alarm that goes off in the cab while the train is
drawing power from the supply that the AC/DC switch doesn't select. But
that's all.
--
Clive D.W. Feather
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-12-20 00:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.
I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
The train will not take power,
however, until the engineer sets the power mode switch to the proper
setting.
On 313s there's an alarm that goes off in the cab while the train is
drawing power from the supply that the AC/DC switch doesn't select. But
that's all.
I certainly hope that such control and alarm technology has moved on
somewhat since the 313s were built over 40 years ago!
--
Colin Rosenstiel
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-20 17:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?
If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.
I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.
As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
Clive D.W. Feather
2017-12-20 22:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
--
Clive D.W. Feather
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-21 00:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-12-21 10:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all? Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-21 13:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?
Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail
They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.
M2s and M8s are married pairs, coupled into a consist. Each of those
pairs has a pantograph, and they all go up. Thus, if one of them does
not work, the other ones will take over.
Charles Ellson
2017-12-21 23:45:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?
Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail
They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.
Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.
M2s and M8s are married pairs, coupled into a consist. Each of those
pairs has a pantograph, and they all go up. Thus, if one of them does
not work, the other ones will take over.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-22 00:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?
Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail
They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.
Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank).
Yes, I have seen that plenty of times, such as at City Thameslink,
Farringdon and Drayton Park.
Post by Charles Ellson
Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).
Class 373s also changed over on the fly when they ran out of Waterloo, IIRC.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-22 00:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?
Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail
They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.
Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).
Changing over at V-Zero on an M-2 will mean a rough start, and is thus
ill-advised.

Are the M-2s still running, by the way? I know that the New Haven Line
EMUs are now mainly M-8, though I was under the impression that
Metro-North were keeping a few around for peak services.
h***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-12-22 00:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
Post by h***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Clive D.W. Feather
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.
Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.
So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?
I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.
So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?
Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail
They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.
Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).
Changing over at V-Zero on an M-2 will mean a rough start, and is thus
ill-advised.
Are the M-2s still running, by the way? I know that the New Haven Line
EMUs are now mainly M-8, though I was under the impression that
Metro-North were keeping a few around for peak services.
A few M-2s, that is.
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-12-22 00:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Ellson
Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).
Do 378s change on the move now? They used to stop north of Shepherd's Bush
to do so IIRC, an obvious case for changing on the move.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Offramp
2017-12-20 18:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Why do these threads carry on for so long?
Basil Jet
2017-12-21 03:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Offramp
Why do these threads carry on for so long?
To stop the pan coming off the end?
Offramp
2017-12-24 17:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I am nominating this as my THREAD OF THE YEAR!!
Offramp
2017-12-27 10:24:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks for all these comments about Air Traffic controllers.

BTW, does anyone know why there's an overhead wire on the southbound platform of Highbury Station?
Loading...