Discussion:
Sir Frank Pick Memorial Lavatory
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Basil Jet
2017-08-01 21:57:56 UTC
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Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Recliner
2017-08-01 22:29:58 UTC
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Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Would they be allowed to use Johnston (not Johnson)? TfL owns the
copyright, and I think it controls the font's use very tightly.
Peter Able
2017-08-02 08:46:56 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Would they be allowed to use Johnston (not Johnson)? TfL owns the
copyright, and I think it controls the font's use very tightly.
Neither font, nor fount - but typeface.

PA



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Water musician
2017-08-03 12:41:21 UTC
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On 2 Aug 2017, Recliner wrote
(in
Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Would they be allowed to use Johnston (not Johnson)? TfL owns the
copyright, and I think it controls the font's use very tightly.
The TfL font is New Johnston, which was a “modernised” and then digitised
version of the original, with minor stylistic changes, although I can’t
remember the details.

Licensing is controlled – you can’t just buy it. You have to apply to TfL
giving the reasons you need it. If they agree, you pay for the licence and
then it used to arrive on CD.

But there are a couple of commercial versions available which are
distinguishable from the “real thing” only by a few of the folk here and
people who could be described as professional typographers (or designers with
a special interest in type).

ITC Johnston is part of the Monotype Library - I think individual weights are
about ¢30-35 each as Open Type

There is also P22 Underground and Underground Pro which IIRC are licensed by
the Museum – digitised from the original Johnson.

I think P22 Underground is now part of the Adobe Typekit library, so if you
are signed up with Adobe Creative Suite (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop and
lots more) it’s yours ready to use.

Creative Suite is a pay monthly SaS deal - sign up for a year at $40-50 a
month or thereabouts to download the apps, then it provides updates, bug
fixes and special offers.

One advantage of this is that you can log in from both laptop and desktop
(but not simultaneously) and have the apps on both – even if, like me, the
desktop is a Mac and the portable is a Windows PC.

The other is that you don’t mind the monthly subs, whereas the upfront cost
of the “Big 3” apps – more or less essentials for editors, designers
etc – when it was a shrinkwrap – was heading for £1,000, and IIRC the
upgrades were over the £100 mark.

HTH
Ken
Recliner
2017-08-03 13:09:29 UTC
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(in
Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Would they be allowed to use Johnston (not Johnson)? TfL owns the
copyright, and I think it controls the font's use very tightly.
The TfL font is New Johnston, which was a “modernised” and then digitised
version of the original, with minor stylistic changes, although I can’t
remember the details.
Actually, TfL has moved on from New Johnston to Johnston100:
<http://www.monotype.com/resources/case-studies/introducing-johnston100-the-language-of-london/>
Licensing is controlled – you can’t just buy it. You have to apply to TfL
giving the reasons you need it. If they agree, you pay for the licence and
then it used to arrive on CD.
Perhaps TfL would be unenthusiastic about its use on a public
lavatory?
But there are a couple of commercial versions available which are
distinguishable from the “real thing” only by a few of the folk here and
people who could be described as professional typographers (or designers with
a special interest in type).
Yes, a professional designer ought to have used one of those.
ITC Johnston is part of the Monotype Library - I think individual weights are
about ¢30-35 each as Open Type
There is also P22 Underground and Underground Pro which IIRC are licensed by
the Museum – digitised from the original Johnson.
I think P22 Underground is now part of the Adobe Typekit library, so if you
are signed up with Adobe Creative Suite (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop and
lots more) it’s yours ready to use.
Creative Suite is a pay monthly SaS deal - sign up for a year at $40-50 a
month or thereabouts to download the apps, then it provides updates, bug
fixes and special offers.
One advantage of this is that you can log in from both laptop and desktop
(but not simultaneously) and have the apps on both – even if, like me, the
desktop is a Mac and the portable is a Windows PC.
The other is that you don’t mind the monthly subs, whereas the upfront cost
of the “Big 3” apps – more or less essentials for editors, designers
etc – when it was a shrinkwrap – was heading for £1,000, and IIRC the
upgrades were over the £100 mark.
Water musician
2017-08-03 13:21:51 UTC
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Post by Recliner
Post by Water musician
(in
Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Would they be allowed to use Johnston (not Johnson)? TfL owns the
copyright, and I think it controls the font's use very tightly.
The TfL font is New Johnston, which was a “modernised” and then digitised
version of the original, with minor stylistic changes, although I can’t
remember the details.
<http://www.monotype.com/resources/case-studies/introducing-johnston100-the-la
nguage-of-london/>
Post by Water musician
Licensing is controlled – you can’t just buy it. You have to apply to TfL
giving the reasons you need it. If they agree, you pay for the licence and
then it used to arrive on CD.
Perhaps TfL would be unenthusiastic about its use on a public
lavatory?
Post by Water musician
But there are a couple of commercial versions available which are
distinguishable from the “real thing” only by a few of the folk here and
people who could be described as professional typographers (or designers with
a special interest in type).
Yes, a professional designer ought to have used one of those.
No excuse, really.

I can’t imagine many professionals who haven’t got Creative Suite which
includes one-click access to the Typekit fonts – and the whole story of
Pick and the Johnston typeface would be part of every English designer’s
education.

If you knew – or found out – that the “real thing” was not available,
I think there are plenty of websites which would identify its kissing cousins
– or even, in the case of P22 Underground, you could probably call it a
closer relative.

Ken
Post by Recliner
Post by Water musician
ITC Johnston is part of the Monotype Library - I think individual weights are
about ¢30-35 each as Open Type
There is also P22 Underground and Underground Pro which IIRC are licensed by
the Museum – digitised from the original Johnson.
I think P22 Underground is now part of the Adobe Typekit library, so if you
are signed up with Adobe Creative Suite (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop and
lots more) it’s yours ready to use.
Creative Suite is a pay monthly SaS deal - sign up for a year at $40-50 a
month or thereabouts to download the apps, then it provides updates, bug
fixes and special offers.
One advantage of this is that you can log in from both laptop and desktop
(but not simultaneously) and have the apps on both – even if, like me, the
desktop is a Mac and the portable is a Windows PC.
The other is that you don’t mind the monthly subs, whereas the upfront cost
of the “Big 3” apps – more or less essentials for editors, designers
etc – when it was a shrinkwrap – was heading for £1,000, and IIRC the
upgrades were over the £100 mark.
Nobody
2017-08-05 23:10:16 UTC
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On Thu, 03 Aug 2017 14:09:29 +0100, Recliner
Post by Recliner
(in
Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
Would they be allowed to use Johnston (not Johnson)? TfL owns the
copyright, and I think it controls the font's use very tightly.
The TfL font is New Johnston, which was a “modernised” and then digitised
version of the original, with minor stylistic changes, although I can’t
remember the details.
<http://www.monotype.com/resources/case-studies/introducing-johnston100-the-language-of-london/>
Licensing is controlled – you can’t just buy it. You have to apply to TfL
giving the reasons you need it. If they agree, you pay for the licence and
then it used to arrive on CD.
Perhaps TfL would be unenthusiastic about its use on a public
lavatory?
But there are a couple of commercial versions available which are
distinguishable from the “real thing” only by a few of the folk here and
people who could be described as professional typographers (or designers with
a special interest in type).
Yes, a professional designer ought to have used one of those.
ITC Johnston is part of the Monotype Library - I think individual weights are
about ¢30-35 each as Open Type
There is also P22 Underground and Underground Pro which IIRC are licensed by
the Museum – digitised from the original Johnson.
In the American (slang) sense, one would use their Johnson in a
lavatory...

Offramp
2017-08-02 03:19:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Basil Jet
Unfortunately they've used Gill Sans rather than Johnson,
making the memorial a bit crapper than it should have been. This is in
Chester-Le-Street in Co Durham.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXNZOkxjuev/
"Sir" Frank Pick. "Sir" like a Geoffrey Boycott "sir".
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