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New report highlghts the important role of smaller stations for passengers
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Tim B
2017-07-20 10:38:33 UTC
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This new report from London TravelWatch will be of interest to this group.

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news/view?id=657&x[0]=news/list
Graham Murray
2017-07-20 11:58:43 UTC
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Post by Tim B
This new report from London TravelWatch will be of interest to this group.
http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news/view?id=657&x[0]=news/list
Should the list of key improvements not also include 'provide adequate
and clean toilet facilities'? Especially as most of the trains serving
smaller London stations have no on-board toilets.
Robin
2017-07-20 12:58:28 UTC
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Post by Graham Murray
Post by Tim B
This new report from London TravelWatch will be of interest to this group.
http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/news/view?id=657&x[0]=news/list
Should the list of key improvements not also include 'provide adequate
and clean toilet facilities'? Especially as most of the trains serving
smaller London stations have no on-board toilets.
2 points:

a. toilets are covered in the report (pages 13-14); and

b. the way they are covered reinforces the impression that the whole
report is a "wish list" with little regard to cost-effectiveness.

This struck me first with the key comment: "Small stations often receive
less investment than larger stations". That seemed to me a statement of
the bleeding obvious. I would have been much more impressed by eg
"Small stations often receive less investment per passenger than larger
stations". Or eg by an argument that investment would give a greater
return per pound spent in terms of extra revenue.

That's illustrated further by the way the report states "However, the
toilets need to be available during stations’ opening hours." I'd like
to know what they reckon would be the annual cost, and percentage of
time workable, of toilets available at unmanned stations in London?
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Offramp
2017-07-20 16:01:13 UTC
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A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.

Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your responsibility.
Paul Corfield
2017-07-24 11:41:01 UTC
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Post by Offramp
A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.
Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your responsibility.
You said it. Having managed a contract that covered both public and staff toilet facilities on LU they were a never ending source of grief. The scale of damage and abuse to such facilities is incredible. And just before anyone responds I am not saying they are not an essential facility for the public. They clearly are valued and important but the way a minority of the public treat them it is a wonder there are any public toilets anywhere.
--
Paul C
via Google
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-07-24 15:24:39 UTC
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Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Offramp
A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in
the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the
Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.
Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever
there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station
cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your responsibility.
You said it. Having managed a contract that covered both public and
staff toilet facilities on LU they were a never ending source of
grief. The scale of damage and abuse to such facilities is
incredible. And just before anyone responds I am not saying they are
not an essential facility for the public. They clearly are valued
and important but the way a minority of the public treat them it is a
wonder there are any public toilets anywhere.
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Offramp
2017-07-24 16:58:34 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Offramp
A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in
the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the
Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.
Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever
there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station
cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your responsibility.
You said it. Having managed a contract that covered both public and
staff toilet facilities on LU they were a never ending source of
grief. The scale of damage and abuse to such facilities is
incredible. And just before anyone responds I am not saying they are
not an essential facility for the public. They clearly are valued
and important but the way a minority of the public treat them it is a
wonder there are any public toilets anywhere.
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
There is a solution right there... An Oyster/CPC reader that charges 10/20p. If people knew that their details were on record they wouldn't smash the bogs up.
Clank
2017-07-24 18:13:10 UTC
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Post by Offramp
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Offramp
A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in
the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the
Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.
Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever
there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station
cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your responsibility.
You said it. Having managed a contract that covered both public and
staff toilet facilities on LU they were a never ending source of
grief. The scale of damage and abuse to such facilities is
incredible. And just before anyone responds I am not saying they are
not an essential facility for the public. They clearly are valued
and important but the way a minority of the public treat them it is a
wonder there are any public toilets anywhere.
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
There is a solution right there... An Oyster/CPC reader that charges 10/20p. If people knew that their details were on record they wouldn't smash the bogs up.
Oh I can see the Daily Mail loving that...

"TOILET PAPERS PLEASE! Now fascist EURO-BOFFINS even want to know where you
SPEND A PENNY. Eurocrats without any CENTS demand spies in our toilets
thanks to scourge of FOREIGNERS' public Armitage Shanks abuse." (Leader,
p.3, "the Empire was built by men who urinated without Government
interference, we must resist this slippery slope.")

Unless you can blame it on the gays. That might work.
tim...
2017-07-24 20:16:18 UTC
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Post by Offramp
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Offramp
A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in
the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the
Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.
Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever
there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station
cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your responsibility.
You said it. Having managed a contract that covered both public and
staff toilet facilities on LU they were a never ending source of
grief. The scale of damage and abuse to such facilities is
incredible. And just before anyone responds I am not saying they are
not an essential facility for the public. They clearly are valued
and important but the way a minority of the public treat them it is a
wonder there are any public toilets anywhere.
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
There is a solution right there... An Oyster/CPC reader that charges
10/20p. If people knew that their details were on record they wouldn't
smash the bogs up.
my oyster is unregistered

getting such is trivial

tim
r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
2017-07-25 12:01:00 UTC
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Post by tim...
On Monday, 24 July 2017 16:24:41 UTC+1,
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by Offramp
A good layout for toilets is at Golders Green. The toilets are in
the street, where the bus station is. They are very close to the
Tube station, but they are the council's responsibility.
Station Supervisors will shut toilets inside stations whenever
there is any problem. They are also a lot of work for the station
cleaner. They are nice to have until they become your
responsibility.
You said it. Having managed a contract that covered both public and
staff toilet facilities on LU they were a never ending source of
grief. The scale of damage and abuse to such facilities is
incredible. And just before anyone responds I am not saying they are
not an essential facility for the public. They clearly are valued
and important but the way a minority of the public treat them it is a
wonder there are any public toilets anywhere.
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
There is a solution right there... An Oyster/CPC reader that
charges 10/20p. If people knew that their details were on record
they wouldn't smash the bogs up.
my oyster is unregistered
getting such is trivial
s'alright. You'll be on CCTV.
--
Colin Rosenstiel
Arthur Conan Doyle
2017-07-24 22:27:12 UTC
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Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
I thought the JCDeCaux modular toilets were good - and if I remember correctly,
somewhat self cleaning? Are they still around?
DRH
2017-07-25 07:40:15 UTC
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Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
Post by r***@cix.compulink.co.uk
That's why the city council introduced 20p charges for Cambridge public
toilets. It was found to reduce such abuse dramatically.
I thought the JCDeCaux modular toilets were good - and if I remember correctly,
somewhat self cleaning? Are they still around?
Slightly tangential, but I thought the TfL take on the traditional Paris pissoir at Vauxhall bus station was rather good. Gents only but you can relieve yourself whilst waving to passing bus passengers / enjoying the general view. Bit chilly in the winter, though. Perhaps, one of Paul Corfield's innovations?
s***@googlemail.com
2017-07-26 21:36:05 UTC
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I am getting old, and this week was diagnosed as having type 2 diabetes. I'm pretty sure that I've had it for several years, but couldn't bring myself to go to a doctor. I quite frequently need to pass water, often with little warning, and the lack of public toilets is a real problem for me. The outdoor urinal at Vauxhall is very useful; I can get off a bus, quickly pop in and get back to the stop in time to catch the next one just a few minutes later. For a long time one side always seemed to be locked, but both sides have been open recently. Pity there are no hand washing facilities. Why are there not more of these things? The recently rebuilt West Croydon bus station has a single toilet, often engaged, many others do not have even that.

I have occasionally seen the Vauxhall urinal being used by women, late at night when the indoor toilets are closed, and if wearing a dress or skirt they can do so without exposing themselves.
Offramp
2017-07-26 21:56:28 UTC
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The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-07-27 08:35:51 UTC
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On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:56:28 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?

G.Harman
tim...
2017-07-27 11:44:14 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:56:28 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan
leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?
you're using it to tan leather

why do you need to

(all very hypothetically, of course)
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-07-27 12:16:17 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:56:28 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan
leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?
you're using it to tan leather
why do you need to
(all very hypothetically, of course)
To stop the diced carrots getting stuck in any pipe work?

OTOH isn't the process based on Urine being an alkali that eventually
becomes part of the caustic solution that does whatever it does to the
hides,, Puke will be the contents of the stomach so acidic in nature.
Too much of it and it will affect the alkalinity of the Urine.

G.Harman
tim...
2017-07-27 12:34:34 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 14:56:28 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan
leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?
you're using it to tan leather
why do you need to
(all very hypothetically, of course)
To stop the diced carrots getting stuck in any pipe work?
what pipe work

it's poured into "baths"
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
OTOH isn't the process based on Urine being an alkali that eventually
becomes part of the caustic solution that does whatever it does to the
hides,, Puke will be the contents of the stomach so acidic in nature.
Too much of it and it will affect the alkalinity of the Urine.
but that would be the question

how do you stop the puke getting there in the first place?

not

how do you get rid of it once it's there?
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-07-27 14:27:18 UTC
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Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan
leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?
you're using it to tan leather
why do you need to
(all very hypothetically, of course)
To stop the diced carrots getting stuck in any pipe work?
what pipe work
it's poured into "baths"
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
OTOH isn't the process based on Urine being an alkali that eventually
becomes part of the caustic solution that does whatever it does to the
hides,, Puke will be the contents of the stomach so acidic in nature.
Too much of it and it will affect the alkalinity of the Urine.
but that would be the question
how do you stop the puke getting there in the first place?
not
how do you get rid of it once it's there?
For gawds sake it was a throwaway remark,
do you suffer from one of those isms ,ADi, aspergers or something
that makes you a boring, argumentative fart who takes things too
seriously,has to analyze every thing to the nth degree sort of person
that society has to tolerate nowadays where people have to walk on
eggs in their dealings with you whereas it would be better all round
if such conditions could be discovered before birth and dealt with
then .

G.Harman
tim...
2017-07-27 17:40:17 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan
leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?
you're using it to tan leather
why do you need to
(all very hypothetically, of course)
To stop the diced carrots getting stuck in any pipe work?
what pipe work
it's poured into "baths"
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
OTOH isn't the process based on Urine being an alkali that eventually
becomes part of the caustic solution that does whatever it does to the
hides,, Puke will be the contents of the stomach so acidic in nature.
Too much of it and it will affect the alkalinity of the Urine.
but that would be the question
how do you stop the puke getting there in the first place?
not
how do you get rid of it once it's there?
For gawds sake it was a throwaway remark,
I know

but you carried on

tim
Clank
2017-07-30 19:34:35 UTC
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Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by tim...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
Post by Offramp
The urine is sold to a man called a lanter who uses the urine to tan
leather which he sells to Vauxhall's hipsters.
How does he filter out Puke?
you're using it to tan leather
why do you need to
(all very hypothetically, of course)
To stop the diced carrots getting stuck in any pipe work?
what pipe work
it's poured into "baths"
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
OTOH isn't the process based on Urine being an alkali that eventually
becomes part of the caustic solution that does whatever it does to the
hides,, Puke will be the contents of the stomach so acidic in nature.
Too much of it and it will affect the alkalinity of the Urine.
but that would be the question
how do you stop the puke getting there in the first place?
not
how do you get rid of it once it's there?
For gawds sake it was a throwaway remark,
do you suffer from one of those isms ,ADi, aspergers or something
that makes you a boring, argumentative fart who takes things too
seriously,has to analyze every thing to the nth degree sort of person
that society has to tolerate nowadays where people have to walk on
eggs in their dealings with you whereas it would be better all round
if such conditions could be discovered before birth and dealt with
then .
Well that escalated quickly...
Post by d***@yahoo.co.uk
G.Harman
One is not without sympathy, however.

Offramp
2017-07-27 17:04:08 UTC
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You are all making ME puke.
DRH
2017-07-27 07:41:23 UTC
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Post by s***@googlemail.com
I am getting old, and this week was diagnosed as having type 2 diabetes. I'm pretty sure that I've had it for several years, but couldn't bring myself to go to a doctor. I quite frequently need to pass water, often with little warning, and the lack of public toilets is a real problem for me. The outdoor urinal at Vauxhall is very useful; I can get off a bus, quickly pop in and get back to the stop in time to catch the next one just a few minutes later. For a long time one side always seemed to be locked, but both sides have been open recently. Pity there are no hand washing facilities. Why are there not more of these things? The recently rebuilt West Croydon bus station has a single toilet, often engaged, many others do not have even that.
I have occasionally seen the Vauxhall urinal being used by women, late at night when the indoor toilets are closed, and if wearing a dress or skirt they can do so without exposing themselves.
Good points.

For those who have not been caught short at Vauxhall recently, pix are here:
https://changehere.wordpress.com/tag/urinals/

Another plus point seems to be that the structure is rugged enough to be able to be pressure-hosed down very easily thus keeping maintenance to a minimum.

If Offramp is correct it may be even be self-funding.
Robin
2017-07-25 10:38:55 UTC
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Post by Arthur Conan Doyle
I thought the JCDeCaux modular toilets were good - and if I remember correctly,
somewhat self cleaning? Are they still around?
If you mean the fully automated public toilets that self-clean after
every use then yes, they are still around, from JCDecaux and I think
other suppliers. But they are not cheap - IIRC over £25,000 a year per
toilet - and so not self-funding. Some London boroughs have got rid of
them because of the cost, looking instead to the Open London and
community toilet schemes.

Some councils do still provide loos. Hackney built new ones in its
centre a few years ago. And has just rebuilt them. They were very
popular with the rough sleepers and 24-hour drinkers who found them very
convenient.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roland Perry
2017-07-26 14:46:29 UTC
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They were very popular with the rough sleepers and 24-hour drinkers who
found them very convenient.
Isn't that why they are called "conveniences"?
--
Roland Perry
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