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Additional Jubilee and Northen trains deferred
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Recliner
2017-10-11 03:34:37 UTC
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41572173

Transport for London (TfL) confirmed it was "temporarily pausing" plans to
buy more Jubilee and Northern line trains.

Improvements aimed to allow trains to run more frequently, TfL had said.
London Assembly Conservatives said a budget shortfall had led to the pause.

Leaders of the Aslef union said overcrowding would worsen and the delay may
force the project's "cancellation".

An additional 17 trains were to be bought so the Northern Line could run a
30 trains per hour service at peak times.

The Jubilee Line would have had 10 new trains to operate a 36 trains per
hour service.

Finn Brennan, Aslef's organiser on LU, said: "The Northern line is one of
the most overcrowded parts of the Underground and passenger demand is
projected to grow by a further 25% by 2023.
"Without new trains, overcrowding will get worse and worse."

The project had been paused due to a budget shortfall caused by Mayor of
London Sadiq Khan's flagship "fares freeze" policy., the assembly's Tories
claim.
Member Keith Prince said the freeze "blew a £640m hole in TfL's budget."
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-11 08:44:23 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 03:34:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Recliner
The Jubilee Line would have had 10 new trains to operate a 36 trains per
hour service.
Not sure how the jubilee service could be any more frequent in the rush hour
tbh. It already seems to be operating 1 train per minute in the central
section.
Post by Recliner
Finn Brennan, Aslef's organiser on LU, said: "The Northern line is one of
the most overcrowded parts of the Underground and passenger demand is
projected to grow by a further 25% by 2023.
"Without new trains, overcrowding will get worse and worse."
Well, it can only get to a certain maximum that can be transported. When that
happens people will simply find alternative routes.
Post by Recliner
The project had been paused due to a budget shortfall caused by Mayor of
London Sadiq Khan's flagship "fares freeze" policy., the assembly's Tories
claim.
Member Keith Prince said the freeze "blew a £640m hole in TfL's budget."
Its worse than that, Khan is in favour of mass immigration to London and
can't - or more likely won't - mentally join the dots from that to
increased infrastructure requirements. He's your typical morally bankrupt
liberal lefty - fly the flag for mass immigration then blame someone else when
it starts to cause problems.
Roland Perry
2017-10-11 09:47:16 UTC
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<1764327351.529385419.245600.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 03:34:37 on Wed, 11 Oct 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
London Assembly Conservatives said a budget shortfall had led to the pause.
Cash running out, all over the transport system it seems.
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Roland Perry
Paul Corfield
2017-10-11 10:27:50 UTC
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Post by Recliner
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41572173
Transport for London (TfL) confirmed it was "temporarily pausing" plans to
buy more Jubilee and Northern line trains.
Where "temporarily pausing" means "cancelled, never to be contemplated again". We've been here before and we all know what's going on. "This Parrot has ceased to be. This is an ex LU project." ;-)
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Paul C
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Roland Perry
2017-10-11 10:31:22 UTC
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In message
<1764327351.529385419.245600.recliner.ng-***@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 03:34:37 on Wed, 11 Oct 2017, Recliner
Post by Recliner
The project had been paused due to a budget shortfall caused by Mayor of
London Sadiq Khan's flagship "fares freeze" policy., the assembly's Tories
claim.
Or perhaps it's been caused by the electorate voting in someone with
that promise in their manifesto. (And in fact only a very watered-down
version actually being implemented).
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Roland Perry
Jarle Hammen Knudsen
2017-10-11 12:32:29 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 03:34:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41572173
Transport for London (TfL) confirmed it was "temporarily pausing" plans to
buy more Jubilee and Northern line trains.
Are they still buying trains for the Northern Line extension?
--
jhk
Paul Corfield
2017-10-12 00:17:20 UTC
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Post by Jarle Hammen Knudsen
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 03:34:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
Post by Recliner
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41572173
Transport for London (TfL) confirmed it was "temporarily pausing" plans to
buy more Jubilee and Northern line trains.
Are they still buying trains for the Northern Line extension?
No, nothing is being bought. The existing fleet will have to be worked a little hard. Currently 96 out of 106 trains used in the peak. Probably needs another 2 trains to run to Battersea. Alternatively LU may amend their service levels very slightly to shift a train or two to the via Charing Cross service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but still affects the timetable.

Clearly there are separate issues at Battersea where the developer of the Power Stn redesigned the over station development which means LU has had to redesign to station while the works were on site and this has caused weeks of delay and £240m extra costs. Needless to say a "commercial issue" exists between the parties over who pays. TfL were very reluctant to commit to any firm date as to whether the extension will open by the previously agreed date. They just said it was "very challenging". This was when they appeared recently in front the London Assembly Budget Cttee.
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Paul C
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b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-12 08:33:52 UTC
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On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is=
the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to=
the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but st=
ill affects the timetable.
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for? I thought all the crosstail tunnelling
was complete long ago.
Roland Perry
2017-10-12 08:49:06 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is=
the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to=
the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but st=
ill affects the timetable.
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for?
Shhh! The Mayor's so short of money he's asked TfL to tunnel into the
vaults and see what they find.
--
Roland Perry
David Walters
2017-10-12 09:21:13 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is=
the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to=
the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but st=
ill affects the timetable.
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for? I thought all the crosstail tunnelling
was complete long ago.
Nothing to do with Crossrail.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bank-station-capacity-upgrade
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-12 09:55:58 UTC
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On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:21:13 +0100
Post by David Walters
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is=
the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to=
the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but st=
ill affects the timetable.
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for? I thought all the crosstail tunnelling
was complete long ago.
Nothing to do with Crossrail.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bank-station-capacity-upg
ade
Interesting, didn't know about that. I haven't used Bank for a while but it
was always overcrowded in the rush hour on the northern line platforms. Can't
see how they can improve that short of tunnelling a new diversion tube tunnel
like they did at Angel.
Recliner
2017-10-12 10:47:50 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:21:13 +0100
Post by David Walters
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is=
the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to=
the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but st=
ill affects the timetable.
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for? I thought all the crosstail tunnelling
was complete long ago.
Nothing to do with Crossrail.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bank-station-capacity-upg
ade
Interesting, didn't know about that. I haven't used Bank for a while but it
was always overcrowded in the rush hour on the northern line platforms. Can't
see how they can improve that short of tunnelling a new diversion tube tunnel
like they did at Angel.
Nor could they, which is why that's exactly what they're doing.
David Walters
2017-10-12 10:51:35 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 10:21:13 +0100
Post by David Walters
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 17:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
service to reach Battersea. One other factor they will have to cope with is=
the impact of the works at Bank which may slow trains down slightly due to=
the extensive tunnelling work being done. That's a short term thing but st=
ill affects the timetable.
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for? I thought all the crosstail tunnelling
was complete long ago.
Nothing to do with Crossrail.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bank-station-capacity-upg
ade
Interesting, didn't know about that. I haven't used Bank for a while but it
was always overcrowded in the rush hour on the northern line platforms. Can't
see how they can improve that short of tunnelling a new diversion tube tunnel
like they did at Angel.
That's what they are doing, a new Northern line southbound tunnel.
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/bank-and-monument
is probably a better page.

There are also new escalators, moving walkways, lifts and an additional
surface entrance.
b***@cylonHQ.com
2017-10-12 11:18:05 UTC
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On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 11:51:35 +0100
Post by Paul Corfield
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Interesting, didn't know about that. I haven't used Bank for a while but it
was always overcrowded in the rush hour on the northern line platforms.
Can't
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
see how they can improve that short of tunnelling a new diversion tube
tunnel
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
like they did at Angel.
That's what they are doing, a new Northern line southbound tunnel.
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/bank-and-monume
t
is probably a better page.
Thanks. Looks like a massive project, thats a long diversion tunnel.

"April - May 2020 (40 days): line closed in both directions Moorgate to
Kennington"

Thats REALLY not going to go down well. Hope I won't be having to use the line
then.
Roland Perry
2017-10-13 06:58:34 UTC
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Post by David Walters
Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
I haven't used Bank for a while but it
was always overcrowded in the rush hour on the northern line platforms. Can't
see how they can improve that short of tunnelling a new diversion tube tunnel
like they did at Angel.
That's what they are doing, a new Northern line southbound tunnel.
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/bank-and-monument
is probably a better page.
"More than 200 engineers and staff will work on site at Bank 24 hours a
day until 2021."

Opted out of the working time directive, clearly.
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Roland Perry
d***@yahoo.co.uk
2017-10-13 07:56:33 UTC
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Post by Roland Perry
"More than 200 engineers and staff will work on site at Bank 24 hours a
day until 2021."
Opted out of the working time directive, clearly.
Pobably have to do those hours just to live in London,

Bank staff are often on minimum wage.

G.Harman

Paul Corfield
2017-10-12 12:00:09 UTC
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Post by b***@cylonHQ.com
Tunnelling at Bank? Whats this for? I thought all the crosstail tunnelling
was complete long ago.
As others have explained a very large project to add a lot of capacity to Bank Stn. Primarily covers the Northern Line in terms of platform capacity but also adds a new ticket hall on Cannon St and much more interchange capacity. Also makes the station fully accessible but not on the link to Monument IIRC.

Another new ticket hall, at Bloomberg Place, for the W&C Line is due to open at the end of this year. This will provide escalator and step free access to the W&C at Bank.
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Paul C
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